Just now, jhh3 said:

I think if it's a straight route, you only use the modifier for the current region your in.

The issue with that is that it'll actually slow you down if you start closer to the core, while speeding you up if you're going coreward. I think it would be better to just waive the modifier.

3 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Those times are actually much faster than mine. They list the hyperdrive as 11,450 light years an hour, while mine clocks in at ~1,620 light years an hour. Another way to say that is 31.8 light years per second vs. 4.5 light years per second. In parsecs, that's 3,500 an hour, or two and a third grid squares.

I do like his modifiers though, and may borrow them. I think I'd add a x5 modifier to the Unknown Regions and a x2 modifier to Wild Space.

I'm going to update my hyperspace travel times calculator to add a space for modifiers on each leg of the trip.

Oh. I must have not been paying much attention. I didn't do the math. Stupid me.

11 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

The issue with that is that it'll actually slow you down if you start closer to the core, while speeding you up if you're going coreward. I think it would be better to just waive the modifier.

Yeah. Didn't think of that. He says the reason it is so long is that there are clusters of stars. I think it's more of a pull towards the center of the galaxy.

1 minute ago, jhh3 said:

Yeah. Didn't think of that. He says the reason it is so long is that there are clusters of stars. I think it's more of a pull towards the center of the galaxy.

It's not so much a pull towards the center of the galaxy, it's that there is a greater concentration of stars and gravity wells near the center of the galaxy, making navigation much more difficult. Think of it like running through a grid of pillars. The more pillars there are, the slower you'll go as you reroute more frequently and can't move as quickly because you have to move more cautiously for fear of running slap into one.

Galaxies gradually unwind, pushing the stars further away, so if anything it is the opposite, with a (minuscule) push away from the center. It wouldn't really affect anything though.

2 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

It's not so much a pull towards the center of the galaxy, it's that there is a greater concentration of stars and gravity wells near the center of the galaxy, making navigation much more difficult. Think of it like running through a grid of pillars. The more pillars there are, the slower you'll go as you reroute more frequently and can't move as quickly because you have to move more cautiously for fear of running slap into one.

Galaxies gradually unwind, pushing the stars further away, so if anything it is the opposite, with a (minuscule) push away from the center. It wouldn't really affect anything though.

That makes total sense. He's also saying it is faster to get to Alderaan from Tatooine, then it is to get from Coruscant to Alderaan. That doesn't make sense because it would semply make the ship go slower when it gets in the core, making the route longer. Make sense?

Thanks everyone who has commented. I love just chatting a sharing/receiving info!

1 minute ago, jhh3 said:

That makes total sense. He's also saying it is faster to get to Alderaan from Tatooine, then it is to get from Coruscant to Alderaan. That doesn't make sense because it would semply make the ship go slower when it gets in the core, making the route longer. Make sense?

I believe that information is official (at least in Legends), but it doesn't line up with the numbers we're using. It would be very difficult to make those numbers line up properly given the distances involved. Coruscant and Alderaan are only about 5.5 HUs apart, whereas Tatooine and Alderaan are about 33 HUs apart. In order for Tatooine-Alderaan to be faster, it would have to move 6 times as fast. I don't think it is practical from a gaming perspective to try and replicate that, as the numbers just break down way too easily, especially when you look at what routes would be taken to get from Coruscant to Alderaan or from Tatooine to Alderaan, of which many are either in the same region, along a major hyperlane, or even overlap, depending on the approach taken.

While in the "real world," there would be an incredible number of differences and issues with any given route, I think that for the game, it makes the most sense to stick to the timings as reasonably as possible while making a relatively simple system. I think our current HUs do a decent job of splitting the difference between the too short and the too long hyperspace times, and the regional modifiers and modifiers based on hyperlane do a good job balancing it out further to get a fairly dynamic and reasonable system that I think is usable and lines up with the lore about as well as a mathematical system could.

What do you think about what we've currently got? Do the modifiers look good to you? What do you think about major hyperlanes being able to bypass regional modifiers?

5 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

I believe that information is official (at least in Legends), but it doesn't line up with the numbers we're using. It would be very difficult to make those numbers line up properly given the distances involved. Coruscant and Alderaan are only about 5.5 HUs apart, whereas Tatooine and Alderaan are about 33 HUs apart. In order for Tatooine-Alderaan to be faster, it would have to move 6 times as fast. I don't think it is practical from a gaming perspective to try and replicate that, as the numbers just break down way too easily, especially when you look at what routes would be taken to get from Coruscant to Alderaan or from Tatooine to Alderaan, of which many are either in the same region, along a major hyperlane, or even overlap, depending on the approach taken.

While in the "real world," there would be an incredible number of differences and issues with any given route, I think that for the game, it makes the most sense to stick to the timings as reasonably as possible while making a relatively simple system. I think our current HUs do a decent job of splitting the difference between the too short and the too long hyperspace times, and the regional modifiers and modifiers based on hyperlane do a good job balancing it out further to get a fairly dynamic and reasonable system that I think is usable and lines up with the lore about as well as a mathematical system could.

What do you think about what we've currently got? Do the modifiers look good to you? What do you think about major hyperlanes being able to bypass regional modifiers?

Did you edit the one you first posted on here?

13 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

I believe that information is official (at least in Legends), but it doesn't line up with the numbers we're using. It would be very difficult to make those numbers line up properly given the distances involved. Coruscant and Alderaan are only about 5.5 HUs apart, whereas Tatooine and Alderaan are about 33 HUs apart. In order for Tatooine-Alderaan to be faster, it would have to move 6 times as fast. I don't think it is practical from a gaming perspective to try and replicate that, as the numbers just break down way too easily, especially when you look at what routes would be taken to get from Coruscant to Alderaan or from Tatooine to Alderaan, of which many are either in the same region, along a major hyperlane, or even overlap, depending on the approach taken.

While in the "real world," there would be an incredible number of differences and issues with any given route, I think that for the game, it makes the most sense to stick to the timings as reasonably as possible while making a relatively simple system. I think our current HUs do a decent job of splitting the difference between the too short and the too long hyperspace times, and the regional modifiers and modifiers based on hyperlane do a good job balancing it out further to get a fairly dynamic and reasonable system that I think is usable and lines up with the lore about as well as a mathematical system could.

What do you think about what we've currently got? Do the modifiers look good to you? What do you think about major hyperlanes being able to bypass regional modifiers?

I don't really see how a major lane should get that. I always thought the only really good think about them was you don't ever have to come out of hyperspace until you reach your destination. That limits the time of the trip anyway cuz each jump has to be calculated, which takes like 10-15 minutes to calculate, and to get into your new lane.

It also is safer. When you come out of hyperspace pirates could easily get you before you have time to jump.

18 minutes ago, jhh3 said:

Did you edit the one you first posted on here?

The calculator? Yeah, I updated it today.

4 minutes ago, jhh3 said:

I don't really see how a major lane should get that. I always thought the only really good think about them was you don't ever have to come out of hyperspace until you reach your destination. That limits the time of the trip anyway cuz each jump has to be calculated, which takes like 10-15 minutes to calculate, and to get into your new lane.

It also is safer. When you come out of hyperspace pirates could easily get you before you have time to jump.

That's fair, I guess. A major reason why I suggested that was simply ease of calculation.

As for "don't have to come out of hyperspace," I've pretty much always treated it that as long as you're on the same route, you don't have to exit hyperspace unless you need to refuel. It just makes things simpler and cuts down on the nitty-gritty that doesn't actually contribute anything useful. Alternatively, you could easily say that it does happen, we just don't factor it in and gloss over it. Where you do exit hyperspace is at the intersections where you take a new route, though I simply gloss over that. No checks or extra fuel consumption or time or anything unless I feel it is plot-appropriate for something to happen (like an ambush).

I guess I have already given the major routes a bit of a bonus in that they provide a 0.75 multiplier while on them, so I guess we can drop the "no modifier" rule. I'm still not entirely convinced though... If it didn't completely defeat the point of making it simpler, I would propose shifting the modifiers one slot lower. Thus, x3 for the Core would become x2, x1.1 for the Mid Rim would become x1, etc. (though the Outer Rim would stay at 1)

Hmph. I'm still grappling with this. I really like the simplicity of just outright cancelling the modifiers as long as you're on one of the major trade routes, but I can also see how that might be a bit much. I guess it'd probably be best to just use the regional modifiers, but I'm still not sold.

1 hour ago, jhh3 said:

I don't really see how a major lane should get that. I always thought the only really good think about them was you don't ever have to come out of hyperspace until you reach your destination. That limits the time of the trip anyway cuz each jump has to be calculated, which takes like 10-15 minutes to calculate, and to get into your new lane.

It also is safer. When you come out of hyperspace pirates could easily get you before you have time to jump.

they can move faster because the data is far far more accurate allowing a straighter path

5 hours ago, jhh3 said:

I think if it's a straight route, you only use the modifier for the current region your in.

That's why straight routes are the best.

Per star wars lore it is not a straight route. if it were you wouldnt need a navi computer. And yes I know in real world physics you could plot a straight line route because space is that empty.

8 hours ago, Daeglan said:

Per star wars lore it is not a straight route. if it were you wouldnt need a navi computer. And yes I know in real world physics you could plot a straight line route because space is that empty.

You use your nava computer to make sure there's no asteroids, gravity wells, or ships blocking your path. It is also for finding the fastest route, it's like a GPS.

11 hours ago, Daeglan said:

they can move faster because the data is far far more accurate allowing a straighter path

The straighter path is already there. If there was no lanes in the first place then that would be the case, but there is.

13 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

The calculator? Yeah, I updated it today.

That's fair, I guess. A major reason why I suggested that was simply ease of calculation.

As for "don't have to come out of hyperspace," I've pretty much always treated it that as long as you're on the same route, you don't have to exit hyperspace unless you need to refuel. It just makes things simpler and cuts down on the nitty-gritty that doesn't actually contribute anything useful. Alternatively, you could easily say that it does happen, we just don't factor it in and gloss over it. Where you do exit hyperspace is at the intersections where you take a new route, though I simply gloss over that. No checks or extra fuel consumption or time or anything unless I feel it is plot-appropriate for something to happen (like an ambush).

I guess I have already given the major routes a bit of a bonus in that they provide a 0.75 multiplier while on them, so I guess we can drop the "no modifier" rule. I'm still not entirely convinced though... If it didn't completely defeat the point of making it simpler, I would propose shifting the modifiers one slot lower. Thus, x3 for the Core would become x2, x1.1 for the Mid Rim would become x1, etc. (though the Outer Rim would stay at 1)

Hmph. I'm still grappling with this. I really like the simplicity of just outright cancelling the modifiers as long as you're on one of the major trade routes, but I can also see how that might be a bit much. I guess it'd probably be best to just use the regional modifiers, but I'm still not sold.

Yeah. You have to come out and get in a new lane when making that sharp of a tern. It might automatically do it for you, but you do come out.

17 minutes ago, jhh3 said:

You use your nava computer to make sure there's no asteroids, gravity wells, or ships blocking your path. It is also for finding the fastest route, it's like a GPS.

it is just like GPS in a car. there is rarely a straight route to your destination. At least int he star wars universe.

But if you have really accurate maps you cant take a straighter router...

1 minute ago, Daeglan said:

But if you have really accurate maps you cant take a straighter router...

But that has nothing to do with nava computers. L3 was that, maybe that's how han made it soon fast.

Just now, jhh3 said:

But that has nothing to do with nava computers. L3 was that, maybe that's how han made it soon fast.

actually it does have everything to do with Navi computers. navi computers dont work with out map data. What made L3 awesome is she has super accurate maps.

2 hours ago, Daeglan said:

actually it does have everything to do with Navi computers. navi computers dont work with out map data. What made L3 awesome is she has super accurate maps.

Yeah. I guess they are connected. But most of the routes don't change.

11 minutes ago, jhh3 said:

Yeah. I guess they are connected. But most of the routes don't change.

Most routes do change. nothing holds still in space. everything is orbiting everything. that would be why the the data package is super huge.

1 hour ago, Daeglan said:

Most routes do change. nothing holds still in space. everything is orbiting everything. that would be why the the data package is super huge.

planet's move, so does the lanes. At least thwart seems it would be easy for a computer.

35 minutes ago, jhh3 said:

planet's move, so does the lanes. At least thwart seems it would be easy for a computer.

it is not as simple as you think it is. you have to calculate the trajectory of every large object between you and your destination and where those things will be and which direction they will be going when you pass them. and no 2 trips will likely every have the same result. every star will have a trajectory. every planet will will have one. every asteroid. and depending on timing relative to the traveler they could be moving into or out of your path. The advantage to a hyperspace lane is better documentation of all those vectors.

45 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

it is not as simple as you think it is. you have to calculate the trajectory of every large object between you and your destination and where those things will be and which direction they will be going when you pass them. and no 2 trips will likely every have the same result. every star will have a trajectory. every planet will will have one. every asteroid. and depending on timing relative to the traveler they could be moving into or out of your path. The advantage to a hyperspace lane is better documentation of all those vectors.

Makes sense. That's why each jump, the calculation takes at least 3 or more minutes.

I wonder how Purrgil make sure not to run straight into a star. Must have some sort of echo location in space. Lol

2 minutes ago, jhh3 said:

I wonder how Purrgil make sure not to run straight into a star. Must have some sort of echo location in space. Lol

Not necessarily, it all depends on how far they are going. The nearest star to earth is over 4 lightyears away. That would give them plenty of room if they're just trying to avoid going through a star. If they go in short hops, it shouldn't be too hard to avoid smacking into something (though such occurrences have been documented, I believe, though it would have been collisions with shipping). That said, Purgill don't make the most sense of all Star Wars fauna.