43 minutes ago, Astrelan said:

I have run games using these kits, and so far they have worked as intended, making things easier for my players. I don't understand how exactly they could make things more difficult than they were prior. I give my players the choice to use a kit or choose their gear; the kits are meant to speed things up and make it easier for someone who doesn't know the system, which is what they do. What has your experience with your players been like when using them?

I am currently broadening the scope of this project, but it seems like it isn't going in a direction that you want, and I earnestly apologize for that. I want to make this idea something that everyone can benefit from, but the way in which you want me to do so does not align with my design philosophy with this project. To that end, I again extend my apologies.

Imagine you have a character that wants to be a slicer and an infiltrator. they are going to want the Agents kit and the slicers kit. but because of the way your set things up they end up with a bunch of duplicated stuff. But they also are missing stuff like climbing gear with is a part of infiltrating places. So they need the adventurers kit. so now they have a bunch of stuff duplicated 3 times. Or they have to buy one kit and then do a whole bunch of shopping to get all the additional gear they need. Which is why I am advocating task oriented kits instead of they very broad kits you have.

IE
Climbing bundle.
climbing gear
synth rope
Ascension gun
climbing gear
repulsor assist unit.


As an example.

You could do a breaking and entering kit,

a slicing kit

a forging kit

a doctors kit

a diplomats kit

etc.

7 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Imagine you have a character that wants to be a slicer and an infiltrator. they are going to want the Agents kit and the slicers kit. but because of the way your set things up they end up with a bunch of duplicated stuff. But they also are missing stuff like climbing gear with is a part of infiltrating places. So they need the adventurers kit. so now they have a bunch of stuff duplicated 3 times. Or they have to buy one kit and then do a whole bunch of shopping to get all the additional gear they need. Which is why I am advocating task oriented kits instead of they very broad kits you have.

IE
Climbing bundle.
climbing gear
synth rope
Ascension gun
climbing gear
repulsor assist unit.


As an example.

You could do a breaking and entering kit,

a slicing kit

a forging kit

a doctors kit

a diplomats kit

etc.

What I am saying is your kits are a step in the right direction. but you can make them much much much better for newbies. which also happens to make them much more universally useful.

4 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Imagine you have a character that wants to be a slicer and an infiltrator. they are going to want the Agents kit and the slicers kit. but because of the way your set things up they end up with a bunch of duplicated stuff. But they also are missing stuff like climbing gear with is a part of infiltrating places. So they need the adventurers kit. so now they have a bunch of stuff duplicated 3 times. Or they have to buy one kit and then do a whole bunch of shopping to get all the additional gear they need. Which is why I am advocating task oriented kits instead of they very broad kits you have.

The point of the basic kits is that you choose one, based on what you are planning to do at start, not that you can choose multiple. They are not for sale, they are to replace - and only replace - the starting 500 credits. I'm currently creating advanced kits to facilitate choices outside of that, which would allow for advanced mixing and matching like you're suggesting. Please take a look at the document if you haven't done so recently, and you'll see some of the advanced kits I've begun working on for people who take additional credits.

The intent of the basic gear kits is not to have them be perfect specializations, but to give the player appropriate starting gear - and JUST starting gear. It is intended to give someone like your proposed infiltrator/slicer something to work towards, while giving them the basics so they don't have to worry about basic items. More advanced or expensive or specialized items are being relegated to the advanced kits I'm making for more advanced players.

1 minute ago, Astrelan said:

The point of the basic kits is that you choose one, based on what you are planning to do at start, not that you can choose multiple. They are not for sale, they are to replace - and only replace - the starting 500 credits. I'm currently creating advanced kits to facilitate choices outside of that, which would allow for advanced mixing and matching like you're suggesting. Please take a look at the document if you haven't done so recently, and you'll see some of the advanced kits I've begun working on for people who take additional credits.

The intent of the basic gear kits is not to have them be perfect specializations, but to give the player appropriate starting gear - and JUST starting gear. It is intended to give someone like your proposed infiltrator/slicer something to work towards, while giving them the basics so they don't have to worry about basic items. More advanced or expensive or specialized items are being relegated to the advanced kits I'm making for more advanced players.

And this is where they fail new people. as if they pick one they end up lacking gear for what their character can do. because they are very one size fits no one. as in my example picking 1 kit leaves multiples of their skill sets swinging in the breeze. but if you make the kits smaller and more narrow a player can pick 2 or 3 that fits their characters skills sets.

1 minute ago, Daeglan said:

And this is where they fail new people. as if they pick one they end up lacking gear for what their character can do. because they are very one size fits no one. as in my example picking 1 kit leaves multiples of their skill sets swinging in the breeze. but if you make the kits smaller and more narrow a player can pick 2 or 3 that fits their characters skills sets.

I appreciate the feedback, but doing that goes against my design philosophy with these. Most of the new players I've played with don't need that kind of mix-and-match philosophy; it helps to have defined options of what to do.

We are going around and around with this, and I'm definitely going to incorporate your feedback as much as I can as it is good, it's just that we don't share the same vision for this. Please, take a look at what I'm doing with the advanced kits, and tell me if that's more what you have in mind.

I think there may be some wires crossed between you and Daeglan. You are intending these pretty much just for CharGen, correct? Daeglan seems to think that they'll be picking more than one kit, which is not your intention, correct?

The issue with what I think Daeglan is suggesting is that it makes it more complicated and ends up defeating the purpose.

I'm sort of between you two on this. I think that there should be two categories, and the PC picks one from each (like Career and Specialization).

The first category would probably be something like: Adventurer, Soldier, Urban Jungle (or something to that effect). This would include the basics for each adventure setting, then you'd tack the extra stuff on top of that. I'd be willing to try and collaborate with you on making these if you are on board with the idea and would like some help.

The second category would be the special equipment for the specializations like Slicer, Heavy, etc.

10 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

I think there may be some wires crossed between you and Daeglan. You are intending these pretty much just for CharGen, correct? Daeglan seems to think that they'll be picking more than one kit, which is not your intention, correct?

The issue with what I think Daeglan is suggesting is that it makes it more complicated and ends up defeating the purpose.

I'm sort of between you two on this. I think that there should be two categories, and the PC picks one from each (like Career and Specialization).

The first category would probably be something like: Adventurer, Soldier, Urban Jungle (or something to that effect). This would include the basics for each adventure setting, then you'd tack the extra stuff on top of that. I'd be willing to try and collaborate with you on making these if you are on board with the idea and would like some help.

The second category would be the special equipment for the specializations like Slicer, Heavy, etc.

You've hit the nail on the head, and I've gone back and edited some to try and make the point that they're only for CharGen clearer.

I like what you're onto with your categories idea, but I like my basics kits. I think I'll create another section of kits, for what I'll call "Setting and Specialization Kits" which will do what you're saying.

I appreciate the offer of collaboration, but at this time I don't know that I'm looking to directly collaborate. However, I prize the feedback and ideas you're giving, and I would be grateful for any more advice you have. Your comments and ideas are greatly appreciated.