Ok, reminder that I’m still new to this.

I’m interested in making Poe sing. I recently had a go with Kaz’s Fireball and Advanced SLAM and some other bells and whistles, and I loved it. But I have a lot of questions regarding interactions and strategy, and some rules stuff as well.

1) First, the basic Poe/Black One setup... if I SLAM, I can spend a charge from Poe to take a second white action, treating it as red. So then I end up with a stress token, and (assuming I traded my disarm token in for an ion token), an ion token as well. On the following turn, I don’t get a dial, but the Ion Maneuver is a 1 blue forward. Can I spend a charge from BB-8 to Boost or Barrel Roll before this blue maneuver? Googling for answers seems to indicate that lots of people think this is legal, however the rulebook clearly states that ionized ships may not take any actions except Focus, and Boost and Barrel Roll are actions, and thus should be disallowed. Help me on that.

2) Is there some kind of window in the whole move—>SLAM—>Poe chain to ALSO use Advanced SLAM, Pattern Analyzer, or both? Could I also fit a BB-8 action in there, and end up with some sort of silly super-turn, where Poe moves, SLAMs, Barrel Rolls, Boosts, Focuses, and Locks, then ends up NOT Disarmed? Even if it isn’t particularly practical, I’m trying to work out the limits here, and I can’t quite get all the timings straight.

3) Is there ANY Extended-legal way to allow Poe to SLAM more than once in a game? Some way to recharge or re-use Black One, or some other upgrade I haven’t yet found that allows a SLAM?

4) As a corollary to that last question, which other ships in the game are capable of using SLAMs? I know the Fireball, Black One, and Star Wings can do it... any other ships in any factions? And the three I know of all have ways of dumping the Disarm token. Do other SLAM-capable ships have similar mechanics?

I know that’s a lot of questions. Thanks in advance.

You may not do any actions if you have stress (unless some special card/ability allows it). In this case nothing allows you to make actions while stressed. You will be stressed until after you've completed the check stress part of the maneuver. Therefore, you cannot do actions before.

18 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

You may not do any actions if you have stress (unless some special card/ability allows it). In this case nothing allows you to make actions while stressed. You will be stressed until after you've completed the check stress part of the maneuver. Therefore, you cannot do actions before.

Thanks, but I knew that already. The interactions I’m looking at are a bit more complex than that... Pattern Analyzer, for example, seems to supersede the part of a red maneuver where you get a stress token.

Basically, I’m looking for some people who have already really put a lot of thought into this and who know the timing rules and card pool intimately to take me on a deep dive here. By which I mean no insult, Blail! I’m sure you also know your stuff.

29 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

You may not do any actions if you have stress (unless some special card/ability allows it). In this case nothing allows you to make actions while stressed. You will be stressed until after you've completed the check stress part of the maneuver. Therefore, you cannot do actions before.

Ah, I see what you’re getting at; your answer was to my FIRST question, about BB-8 doing something before the Ion Maneuver. I guess what I need to know then is: does the Resistance have a way of taking Poe’s stress off before the following turn (Jaycriss Tubbs seems to work, right?) and if it does, could BB-8 do anything before the Ion Maneuver in that case?

4 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Thanks, but I knew that already. The interactions I’m looking at are a bit more complex than that... Pattern Analyzer, for example, seems to supersede the part of a red maneuver where you get a stress token.

Basically, I’m looking for some people who have already really put a lot of thought into this and who know the timing rules and card pool intimately to take me on a deep dive here. By which I mean no insult, Blail! I’m sure you also know your stuff.

Do you mean primed thrusters?

Pattern analyzer does trigger if you do your Slam maneuver as a red move.

Frankly there are better combo players out there than I. I've admitted Resistance is not my top faction. I'll leave them to it.

But Pat Analyzer I believe works when do you the red move as a slam. but doesn't help for Poe. You know what. I'm out of my waters here.

And Primed Thrusters would let you BB-8 on the blue move next turn.

3 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Do you mean primed thrusters?

Pattern analyzer does trigger if you do your Slam maneuver as a red move.

Ok, that’s helpful... actually, both of those things are.

Just now, Blail Blerg said:

Frankly there are better combo players out there than I. I've admitted Resistance is not my top faction. I'll leave them to it.

......[snip]......

And Primed Thrusters would let you BB-8 on the blue move next turn.

I appreciate your help!

As to the BB-8 thing, that’s similar to what I was reading online in some older posts, but the rules do specifically state that ionized ships can’t do any actions other than Focus, so there seems to be some discrepancy there.

3 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

I appreciate your help!

As to the BB-8 thing, that’s similar to what I was reading online in some older posts, but the rules do specifically state that ionized ships can’t do any actions other than Focus, so there seems to be some discrepancy there.

Oh that too. Sorry I was trying to be helpful, but honestly, I just ask newbie questions easily once a month to the forum too. Detailed rules and memorization are not my strong suits. I have other strengths.

One other reason BB-8 on an Ion move doesn't work: Ionized ships can only perform the Focus action.

@Cpt ObVus

1) the confusion comes because you used to be able to BB-8 while ionized, but that was before they changed the ionization rules so that you may only perform focus actions. So now it doesn’t work, stress or no. You can’t BB-8 while ionized.

2) Such a turn is possible, and can be effective if you catch your opponent off guard with it and they aren’t in a position to pounce on Poe next turn. You have to get the timing right though. It would look something like this:

1. reveal a blue maneuver

2. (potentially) BB-8 into a Boost or Barrel roll

3. execute first blue maneuver

4. SLAM and choose another blue maneuver

5. (potentially) BB-8 into a Barrel roll or boost (whichever you didn’t perform in step 2)

6. Advanced slam into a focus or (if you didn’t use Black One to gain an ion token) target lock or something else

7. Use Poe + Pattern Analyzer Primed Thrusters to perform a boost or barrel roll (if you haven’t performed that action yet in step 2 or 5, and if you didn’t take the ion token)

It gets pretty complicated but it works, so long as you follow all the rules on the cards and the timing windows for performing your activation.

3) I don’t remember if there’s a way to recharge Black One off the top of my head. I don’t believe there is, but there might be an Astromech droid that allows it.

4) K-Wings (for the Rebels) can also SLAM. That’s it though: K-Wings, Star Wings, Fireball, and T-70 X-Wings with Black One.

30 minutes ago, Herowannabe said:

@Cpt ObVus

1) the confusion comes because you used to be able to BB-8 while ionized, but that was before they changed the ionization rules so that you may only perform focus actions. So now it doesn’t work, stress or no. You can’t BB-8 while ionized.

2) Such a turn is possible, and can be effective if you catch your opponent off guard with it and they aren’t in a position to pounce on Poe next turn. You have to get the timing right though. It would look something like this:

1. reveal a blue maneuver

2. (potentially) BB-8 into a Boost or Barrel roll

3. execute first blue maneuver

4. SLAM and choose another blue maneuver

5. (potentially) BB-8 into a Barrel roll or boost (whichever you didn’t perform in step 2)

6. Advanced slam into a focus or (if you didn’t use Black One to gain an ion token) target lock or something else

7. Use Poe + Pattern Analyzer to perform a boost or barrel roll (if you haven’t performed that action yet in step 2 or 5, and if you didn’t take the ion token)

It gets pretty complicated but it works, so long as you follow all the rules on the cards and the timing windows for performing your activation.

3) I don’t remember if there’s a way to recharge Black One off the top of my head. I don’t believe there is, but there might be an Astromech droid that allows it.

4) K-Wings (for the Rebels) can also SLAM. That’s it though: K-Wings, Star Wings, Fireball, and T-70 X-Wings with Black One.

That is EXACTLY what I was looking for. Thank you.

So K-Wings are the only thing I was missing? Scum, First Order, Republic and Separatist forces have zero SLAM-capable ships? Interesting.

54 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

One other reason BB-8 on an Ion move doesn't work: Ionized ships can only perform the Focus action.

Yep. That’s what was vexing me; the rules said you couldn’t do anything but focus when ionized, but my searches were turning up people talking about how BB-8 gets around ionization. I knew either they were wrong, or I was reading something incorrectly. I didn’t know that the actual rule had changed.

20 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Yep. That’s what was vexing me; the rules said you couldn’t do anything but focus when ionized, but my searches were turning up people talking about how BB-8 gets around ionization. I knew either they were wrong, or I was reading something incorrectly. I didn’t know that the actual rule had changed.

Yeah, there was a rules change. BB-8 *used* to work, doesn't any more.

7 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

1) First, the basic Poe/Black One setup... if I SLAM, I can spend a charge from Poe to take a second white action, treating it as red. So then I end up with a stress token, and (assuming I traded my disarm token in for an ion token), an ion token as well. On the following turn, I don’t get a dial, but the Ion Maneuver is a 1 blue forward. Can I spend a charge from BB-8 to Boost or Barrel Roll before this blue maneuver? Googling for answers seems to indicate that lots of people think this is legal, however the rulebook clearly states that ionized ships may not take any actions except Focus, and Boost and Barrel Roll are actions, and thus should be disallowed. Help me on that.

Others have answered this, but for posterity - If you are ionized, the only action you can take during the turn you execute the ion maneuver is the Focus. BB-8 doesn't trigger, even though it's a blue move (sucks, I know - I used to like being able to do that). Poe 's ability doesn't trigger, either, nor can you use Advanced SLAM.

2) Is there some kind of window in the whole move—>SLAM—>Poe chain to ALSO use Advanced SLAM, Pattern Analyzer, or both? Could I also fit a BB-8 action in there, and end up with some sort of silly super-turn, where Poe moves, SLAMs, Barrel Rolls, Boosts, Focuses, and Locks, then ends up NOT Disarmed? Even if it isn’t particularly practical, I’m trying to work out the limits here, and I can’t quite get all the timings straight.

I think @Herowannabe gave you a good example on this.

It's worth noting that Pattern Analyzers doesn't supersede receiving stress from a red maneuver, it just switches the order of steps. The general timing for activation is as follows:

a) Reveal dial.

b) Trigger any abilities that adjust the speed, bearing, or difficulty of that maneuver (there are some tricky interactions here with people like General Leia and some of the crew from the Resistance Transport, but I don't recall if you had that ship).

c) Execute the maneuver (which can be partially or fully executed, as per bumping and overlapping rules).

> Pattern Analyzer triggers here, if you have not bumped another ship or overlapped an object (i.e. asteroid, debris, or gas cloud). It switches the order of the next two steps, and also allows linked actions, etc. - but you'll suffer the cost in the same way, so you could conceivably end up with two or more stress tokens.

d) Check pilot stress (if you executed a red maneuver, or suffered some other effect that would assign you stress, this happens now).

e) If you're not stressed (or if you are able to perform an action "while you have X or less" or "even if you are" with respect to stress tokens), perform an action (white, red, purple, or as printed on various cards).

f) Trigger any special abilities that allow you to do additional actions (i.e. Poe) if you are able to meet the requirements.

3) Is there ANY Extended-legal way to allow Poe to SLAM more than once in a game? Some way to recharge or re-use Black One, or some other upgrade I haven’t yet found that allows a SLAM?

No. There is no current way to regain the lost charge on Black One

4) As a corollary to that last question, which other ships in the game are capable of using SLAMs? I know the Fireball, Black One, and Star Wings can do it... any other ships in any factions? And the three I know of all have ways of dumping the Disarm token. Do other SLAM-capable ships have similar mechanics?

K-Wing for Rebels, as noted, but it has no way of shedding the disarm.

I know that’s a lot of questions. Thanks in advance.

2 hours ago, Herowannabe said:

Use Poe + Pattern Analyzer to perform a boost or barrel roll (if you haven’t performed that action yet in step 2 or 5, and if you didn’t take the ion token)

only triggers while performing a red maneuver, so the chain of blue maneuvers you outline won't trigger pattern analyzer.

3 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

only triggers while performing a red maneuver, so the chain of blue maneuvers you outline won't trigger pattern analyzer.

Whoops I meant primed thrusters. Thanks for the catch.

Hi,

I am frequent flyer with Poe + BB-8 + Black One + Pattern Analyzer + Heroic.

I did this yesterday:

1) Reveal blue maneuver - trigger BB-8 - trigger Poe

2) Make the maneuver (remove stress from triggered Poe)

3) As an action I Slam Talon Roll using Black One so ended up with Stress and Ion

Of course, if you didn't trigger Poe in step one, you can trigger him in step three but you end with 2 Stress and Ion because of Pattern Analyzer. Also if you would Slammed non-red maneuver and triggered Poe after that, you end up with one stress and Ion. Hope it helps.