Ok, I just don’t get these two cards.
Bistan is unique, faction-locked to Rebels and allows you to make a turret attack against a ship you haven’t yet attacked this round, but only if you’re focused.
VTG gives you a bonus attack from a turret you haven’t used yet in this round.
Both of them happen after primary attacks. But Bistan is far more expensive, despite being far more restricted. What gives? When is Bistan ever better than VTG?
Just now, Cpt ObVus said:Ok, I just don’t get these two cards.
Bistan is unique, faction-locked to Rebels and allows you to make a turret attack against a ship you haven’t yet attacked this round, but only if you’re focused.
VTG gives you a bonus attack from a turret you haven’t used yet in this round.
Both of them happen after primary attacks. But Bistan is far more expensive, despite being far more restricted. What gives? When is Bistan ever better than VTG?
Bistan lets you re-use a primary turret for a second shot, such as from the millenium falcon, or why not the 4 dice primary of the yt-2400.
2 minutes ago, Cerebrawl said:Bistan lets you re-use a primary turret for a second shot, such as from the millenium falcon, or why not the 4 dice primary of the yt-2400.
EDIT: Question retracted. I had accidentally added Bistan to another ship, so he was grayed out for the Falcon. 🙂
Edited by Cpt ObVus2 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:Ok... but in the YASB 2.0 program, I’m not allowed to equip Bistan to any Rebel Modified YT-1300. He’s grayed out. What’s up with that?
That's because he's unique and you have him equiped on another ship.
2 minutes ago, Cerebrawl said:That's because he's unique and you have him equiped on another ship.
Yep, figured that out eventually. Thanks!
It's rare that you will ever get two ships in the opposite sides of a bow-tie double turret. So Veteran Turret Gunner is not worth having on one of those.
It is useful on a 'normal arc plus single turret arc' ship such as a Y-Wing or Scurrg - then you can shoot the same ship twice. It's particularly good on Matchstick (Republic Y-Wing) or in a Drea (Scum Y-Wing) Swarm type list because both attacks can be modified.
Bistan is so expensive that you only ever see him on Dash Rendar, where that one ship is the only real damage-dealing ship in the list. If he were cheaper you'd see him a lot more often on the YTs alongside a Perceptive Co-pilot, for example - because you still need both shots to have modifications.
On 3/29/2020 at 3:11 AM, Gilarius said:Bistan is so expensive that you only ever see him on Dash Rendar, where that one ship is the only real damage-dealing ship in the list. If he were cheaper you'd see him a lot more often on the YTs alongside a Perceptive Co-pilot, for example - because you still need both shots to have modifications.
I also see potential for him on Lando, for the Perceptive Co-pilot and Nien combo to just have free actions out the wazoo to get sufficent mods to make using Bistan worth it. Heck, throw in a coordinating ship as well to give him even more efficiency.
3 hours ago, Npmartian said:I also see potential for him on Lando, for the Perceptive Co-pilot and Nien combo to just have free actions out the wazoo to get sufficent mods to make using Bistan worth it. Heck, throw in a coordinating ship as well to give him even more efficiency.
I've preferred using Luke Gunner, because when Lando is that expensive it's really annoying to get arc-dodged by Soontir and Anakin.
Flew Wedge alongside with Lone Wolf, R2D2, and either Shield or Afterburners.
About half the time, they worked best with Lando approaching Wedge, passing him the bonus action (reposition is really good, unsurprisingly), then Wedge moves away to stay out of range 2 and foil everyone trying to kill him!
A good Bistan build is Han Bistan Perceptive copilot. Double tap at I6 and with Hans ability and a focus, you rarely get bad rolls.
17 hours ago, JBFancourt said:A good Bistan build is Han Bistan Perceptive copilot. Double tap at I6 and with Hans ability and a focus, you rarely get bad rolls.
That was the 1st Han build I tried in 2nd edition, and I'm actually not too crazy about it on Han-it might be better on Lando. For Han, I actually use Luke+Saw-works better than you'd expect.
17 hours ago, JBFancourt said:A good Bistan build is Han Bistan Perceptive copilot. Double tap at I6 and with Hans ability and a focus, you rarely get bad rolls.
I keep being tempted by PerCo Han. With his rerolls, against an obstructed or range 3 shot, you've got a really good chance at rolling into some blanks, and when these high-hull, low-agility ships start getting lots of green arrows, it's a rough time for an opponent.
Bistan allows you to shoot the same Turret Arc and a different target.
Veteran Turret Gunner requires you to have a turret equipped and have a separate primary shot and allows you to shoot the same target.
Veteran Tail Gunner requires you to have a front and rear arcs and requires you to more or less use both when shooting.
Han Solo (Gunner) requires you to have a turret arc and locs it for the rest of the Combat Phase from shooting.
The new Ghost Squadron for Republic works like Bistan, but it also eats a Crew Slot, which will severely limit ships that can equip it. I believe only the Laat and the R2-D2 Y-Wing have the required slots for it to work.
22 minutes ago, Schanez said:Veteran Turret Gunner requires you to have a turret equipped and have a separate primary shot and allows you to shoot the same target.
You can also equip VTG on ships with a bowtie turret primary and use it to shoot one target in each of your two turret arcs, similar to the tail gunner. It's almost never seen in this configuration, though
Just now, Maui. said:You can also equip VTG on ships with a bowtie turret primary and use it to shoot one target in each of your two turret arcs, similar to the tail gunner. It's almost never seen in this configuration, though
I am aware. I should have made it more clear, that the primary can be a bowtie. I as more focused on the Y-Wing ability to shoot the same ship twice. Thanks for correcting that!
1 minute ago, Maui. said:You can also equip VTG on ships with a bowtie turret primary and use it to shoot one target in each of your two turret arcs, similar to the tail gunner. It's almost never seen in this configuration, though
Just too expensive.
Now, if there was a separate "Experienced Turret Gunner" which only did opposite-sides, and cost 4 points like Veteran Tail Gunner, I think it'd be a really solid upgrade. Might not happen every game, but those times when you get bonus attacks for only 4 points would be really good.
I think the only reason Veteran Tail Gunner is bad is that the only ship which can natively equip it is the ARC, and the ARC isn't very mobile, and it only has a 2-dice rear gun, so there isn't a tonne added. If Firespray could equip a gunner baseline, I think it'd see a lot of play and would be quite good. However, Firesprays need to equip also a 6 point title, and then you've invested 10 points into the upgrade... and it's not worth that.
For 4 points, I think having opposite-sides attacks would be worthwhile on anything with a printed 3-dice turret, so long as you're not giving up a better gunner.
1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:Just too expensive.
Now, if there was a separate "Experienced Turret Gunner" which only did opposite-sides, and cost 4 points like Veteran Tail Gunner, I think it'd be a really solid upgrade. Might not happen every game, but those times when you get bonus attacks for only 4 points would be really good.
I think the only reason Veteran Tail Gunner is bad is that the only ship which can natively equip it is the ARC, and the ARC isn't very mobile, and it only has a 2-dice rear gun, so there isn't a tonne added. If Firespray could equip a gunner baseline, I think it'd see a lot of play and would be quite good. However, Firesprays need to equip also a 6 point title, and then you've invested 10 points into the upgrade... and it's not worth that.
For 4 points, I think having opposite-sides attacks would be worthwhile on anything with a printed 3-dice turret, so long as you're not giving up a better gunner.
Veteran Turret Gunner does that. You can use a Double-Turret to pew pew to the one side and then do a shoot shoot to the other side. Veteran Tail Gunner is so cheap, because it requires an immobile double arc and for now only one ship with such can equip a Gunner Upgrade. The other two I can think of are Firespray and Sheathepide, neither of which have a Gunner slot.
Douple Taps, especially against different targets are quite expensive. Bistan is 14 points. VTG is 10 now. Ezra is 14. Han Solo again 14. I expect the Ghost Squad to be around 6 to 8 points, because it suffers heavily from the required Crew and Gunner slots. Then again it suffers from the same issue as Tail Gunner, lack of ships that can effectively slot it. So who knows.
57 minutes ago, Schanez said:Veteran Turret Gunner does that.
I guess I left out half my point.
Veteran Turret Gunner can't be priced low enough to see use on something like a YT-1300 or VT-49, because then it'd be busted on the Scurrgs and Y-Wings. A different "Experienced Tail Gunner" that was reworded to no longer work with double-front attacks and *only* work on split arc attacks could be cheaper.
If if there were an ETG that was priced like the Tail Gunner, it'd probably be reasonable for the cost as a budget option, if you weren't bringing something like Bistan or Fifth Brother.