I take a 4-week break from the forums to work on my own game designs.

I come back and all the bickering and complaining seems so petty in comparison.

PSA: Designing a game is way harder than it looks. X-Wing 2.0 is an incredibly solid game, very well balanced, and very future-minded. There's a whole lot to be grateful for.

Granted stuff like AS Guri, SNR Kylo, Force-as-always-on mods, etc. might detract from the player experience (in some relatively minor ways in most cases), but there's also a great deal of hope and potential for those things to be cost-nerfed, errataed, and/or rules-changed.

14 minutes ago, ForceSensitive said:

I'm with @Blail Blerg on this. The LAAT isn't at all what I would have imagined.

I especially don't like that it's ship ability is quite clearly a talent or crew ability. Heck it could have been a pilot ability. Because that would have made a great one of the later. But as the former it means when your alone in the end game, or in the now very popular Aces High, your ship doesn't have anything that makes it special by itself. And I get that Republic is supposed to be the teamwork faction, but that's a personable skill, not an ability of a ship. Like, let's say you have a rebel imperial version LAAT kinda like we have Arcs. The ship ability wouldn't make as much sense to me at that point.

And it's not like the ship didn't have things that could make it unique on it's own if they wanted. The Arcs would have been a great place to focus for instance as many point out. The rotary magazines would be a nifty angle to play on. Heck it could have a configuration card or two like 7B/CLT it was so versatile.

I'm still probably buying 3, but honestly with that ability... Why should I? I can't imagine a list of those doing well. 😕 It's quite clearly a psuedo-howl-light for swarms. And it doesn't even look that good at it.

Yeah something like that.

Also, I'm most sad is this: I was wrong about the Arc balance-wise. I thought it was overcosted, I now think its very undercosted. The problem that I WAS reacting to though is its boring: You rarely get more value out of it beyond some named pilots. Fancy flying is discouraged cuz of the their hurdy slow flight pattern is SOOOO extraordinarily, exceedingly, ridiculously, out-of-this-world efficient when done right. Generally upgrades aren't worth it either. They're BORING and they don't feel like the semi-mobile heavy duty bombers and shield fighters I expected them to be.
The same is dread may be true of the LAAT. Although the design is better and more flight interesting than the Arcs.

A reroll for someone every turn though? That's not too bad. That sounds pretty good actually.

Hmm. They may be more fun than I thought. With their hull I bet they won't mind getting into the middle of the fight, and at their suspected point cost (I guess 33-35 ish), they'll be almost not worth it to shoot. They'll be definitely pondered by their medium base. Getting into the thick fast is bad for medium bases. I hope they have a k-turn or something or 2T-roll.

New spoilers - Yay!!!!!

The LAAT/i is pretty spot on to me at least. Take the with a heaping pile of salt though. The dual turret represents the chin lasers that are on swivel mounts and the ship's "big guns" have always been the dorsal missile launchers. Given that the preview shows multi-missile pods it likely has two missile slots. So it's mounting barrage rockets and using it's ship ability (a ship is friendly to itself) to reroll up to two of the three dice which frankly is better than BR's ability. Or pop on diamond-borons for droid swarms.

Above all else, the LAAT is a for delivering troops to the battlefield which in this game translates into a crew carrier, something the Republic sorely needs. I would be shocked if it had fewer than two slots. Now we just need to see how good Kit, Rex, and Fives' abilities are.

As for the dial, that was shown in the initial wave announcement. Same basics as the ARC with all white banks and a red stop in place of a 4k turn.

Obviously we're still waiting on a fair bit of info still but from what has been shown I'm betting on LAATs being a welcome addition. Assuming the points aren't outrageous.

2 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

Hask also seems like the first reasonable "heart of the swarm" or "force multiplier" ship in First Order.

Oooooh. And it's extra nasty with Kylo Ren and I'll Show You The Dark Side, to slip a crit under someone's shields. Heck, might even be worth it to use the crew.

Yeah, i feel like it can also really help some tie fo that arent taken often shine much more, like static or malarus. Getting that third die at range can really help the damage output of a list, and if youre lower initiative like with a fo swarm, the drawback of strain dont really matter anymore

2 hours ago, Kleeg005 said:

I don't know. I've been trying to get some use out of the "linked" bullseye abilities already resident within the CIS faction, and man, they ain't easy. I'm talking about TV-94 and the Haor-Chall Protoype. I haven't tried them extensively, but one game in particular comes to mind where I ran some combination of those cards against a double-Deci list, and still only managed maybe two or three activations. That Kalani seems like a big-*** trap.

A lot of what I like about Kalani is the design, and what it rewards. More skill-based and not automatic. Effective? We'll see, but I think it's a good direction.

Kalani a trap... maybe. But for most Belbullab pilots, K2-B4 does literally nothing, TV-94 does literally nothing, TA-175 does literally nothing, and Kraken does--you guessed it--literally nothing. *ALL* existing Tactical Relays are calculate-based, and only one Belbullab pilot has the Calculate action.

Kalani, however, might do something. Not always, but still. There's probably some benefit to this triggering as something moves, so you'll still keep the Lock if they boost or roll out of bullseye. Belbullabs are also bank-ships instead of hard-turn-ships, and don't need to try to fly in close formation to maintain Networked Calculations. The way they'll behave on the table is really different, so I don't know that the mediocrity of HCPrototype and TV-94 (which doesn't work on 3 dice attacks, so not at Range 1 with a Vulture and not with any Belbullab) will automatically translate.

I guess it depends on cost, but again, Kalani is the only Tactical Relay that doesn't do literally nothing for a Focus-based Belbullab.

If he's 5 points like most Relays have started, 5 Skakoan Aces with Crack Shot and Kalani fits, and that's somewhat tempting. I suppose 5 with Predator would also fit. I guess I think I like Crack Shot more.

2 hours ago, Kleeg005 said:

And the HMP Gunship.... I want to love it, but the Hyena has certainly dampened my enthusiasm for munitions-based ships for the CIS. Or, geez, any munitions-based ships. K-Wing? Generally absent from even casual nights. Kimogila? Same. TIE Bombers? Not exactly tearing things up, and *they* have the support in-faction to really rock and roll. I just don't know. I guess, as always, that it come down to cost. And these guys seem like they might be difficult to cost - they'll likely be immediately either too expensive or too cheap. Just like Resistance A-Wings.

HMP is an ordnance ship? Hyena mostly isn't. Putting 2 or 3 Hyenas into a squad of vultures seems like it's currently the best way to fly these swarms in Hyperspace, and they're mostly used as just beefier Vultures.

The way that the HMP tempts me, and it'll depend on cost, is as something somewhat comparable to a TIE/sf or Turret Y-Wing: solid defensive statline, with very high time on target. My word if you can fit 6 in there with a DRK-1 Probe Droid? That'd be a sweet list to fly. I expect it won't quite fit, but with a good few of them they might have some potential. Spread some locks around to ensure everyone has perpetual rerolls, and leverage those massive 180 degree firing arcs.

As to Relays, most just don't seem good. HMP will die slow, so TA-175 doesn't seem worth. Kraken seems expensive, since Calculates are just less important to these without Networked Calculations. TV-94 doesn't really tempt me, since Kalani just seems better--I'd rather get rerolls on everyone than a single ship able to spend a Calc for a hit. However, K2-B2 is also really tempting, and adding longevity to an already tough ship sounds nice, particularly when it often won't need it's Calculate for offense.

In general, there's a lot of ships where thinking of them as Ordnance Ships is probably a mistake. Kimogilas and TIE Bombers are immensely cost efficient ships for their stats, and trying to overload them with munitions often doesn't get anywhere. The fact that they've got reload on them kinda tricks people into trying to use missiles or such, but often you just don't have to.

Depending on price, these HMP might have some of the same potential.

2 hours ago, ForceSensitive said:

I'm still probably buying 3, but honestly with that ability... Why should I? I can't imagine a list of those doing well. 😕 It's quite clearly a psuedo-howl-light for swarms. And it doesn't even look that good at it.

Why for swarms? To me, the way to run one of these seems like with aces. Sinker doesn't really click with aces too well, since you have to both point your front at someone to shoot them, and your sides at your aces, and that often just isn't practical. A LAAT only being concerned with keeping stuff in a double-ended turret seems a lot easier. In theory, a LAAT seems solid with a pair of 7B Jedi, or two CLT Aces and Ric. Maybe bring Seventh Fleet Gunner as well, to give someone an extra die in addition to some rerolls.

It's not an Aces High ship, but neither is a Lambda shuttle.

A list of multiples... doesn't seem particularly tempting. We've seen so little, but yeah, I can't really imagine running more than one.

33 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

Maybe bring Seventh Fleet Gunner as well, to give someone an extra die in addition to some rerolls.

Shhhhh! Don't tell everyone. Depending on the crew and pilot abilities you might not care if it's got disabled tokens every turn.

I added all cards spoiled in this stream to the Infinite Arenas Card Browser.

Link to the YouTube recording of the stream added to first post.

What is the that picture of the Ghost on among the epic conversion and multiplayer box in the background? Is that a trophy that would have been a prize at Adepticon?

@theBitterFig your probably right, a fewer pool of ships with larger dice pools would realistically get more value out of the ability. Cost is going to be a big issue here too though. @Blail Blerg is saying 35ish, I'm feeling more like 45ish with that 10 hit points. That is a lot of Hull. Though if it was 35 or so you might be able to afford a missile and a few crew to get it into a good 50s as a supervisor ship. (I tried typing support, but auto correct said supervisor. It's funny so I'm keeping it lol 😁)

And dial of course is a huge factor. I don't see it having a dial much different than a U-wing. It should have a stop, maybe a rotate, for it's landing ability. But I don't know about K/S/T or anything like that. 4 straight might be red if it even had it.

Time will tell I guess. That 'ship' ability is just so odd to have there to me. I guess if it didn't say friendly, and only helped it self it would make more sense. Then a separate Elite, Crew, Gunner, or Sensors card even could be an upgrade that allows you to use it with friendlies. That would have been cooler for me.

2 minutes ago, ForceSensitive said:

@theBitterFig your probably right, a fewer pool of ships with larger dice pools would realistically get more value out of the ability. Cost is going to be a big issue here too though. @Blail Blerg is saying 35ish, I'm feeling more like 45ish with that 10 hit points. That is a lot of Hull. Though if it was 35 or so you might be able to afford a missile and a few crew to get it into a good 50s as a supervisor ship. (I tried typing support, but auto correct said supervisor. It's funny so I'm keeping it lol 😁)

And dial of course is a huge factor. I don't see it having a dial much different than a U-wing. It should have a stop, maybe a rotate, for it's landing ability. But I don't know about K/S/T or anything like that. 4 straight might be red if it even had it.

Time will tell I guess. That 'ship' ability is just so odd to have there to me. I guess if it didn't say friendly, and only helped it self it would make more sense. Then a separate Elite, Crew, Gunner, or Sensors card even could be an upgrade that allows you to use it with friendlies. That would have been cooler for me.

Look its pretty simple: if arcs are 42 (maybe they should be 44), then theres NO WAY Laats are 45. Scurrgs are 45, and I think they're perfect there. Trading bowtie turret for 3 attack dice is NOT it.
Tie Piunisher is 36 (I suspect overcosted, maybe 35).

I2 Ywing is 30 with 8 health. So, I suspect a Y with 10 health should be about 34-35. (Added upgrades drop significantly when fused to fuselage). The ability is generally on every turn, is worth about a focus action 3pts, with two die rerolls, but is off when you fail to fly it right, so it proc only say 50-75%. Let's call it 1-2 points. The bowtie turret like this is pretty meh, arguably only 1-2 points above standard forward 2 die attack.
34-35 + 1-2 + 2 = 37-39.
Okay, so I may have undercosted it a bit, but 37 or 38 seems fine! Look, if its 39, you pay 3 more points for a THIRD ATTACK DIE AND A REAR ARC for the Arc170?? no way.
I'm going to hope for 37, the extra 2 life isn't worth much, and you'll have to fly well. And 0stop but no k-turn is much worse than 4k, so the arc's dial is also better.

@Blail BlergWith that reasoning, I could believe almost 38, maybe. Then again, FFG has cautiously pre-overpriced many turret ships in the past, so for release if they were base 40 I wouldn't be surprised. I just didn't think 35 was realistic. 35 would be almost spammer able. A ten hit point ship is nothing to shake a stick at after all, even with one agility.

The ship still had it's own built in support mechanic, and a sizable upgrade bar we could assume. And that is a lot of value additional to it's raw stats. The only thing holding it in check is that 2d prime.

I thought the scurg was over costed myself, I never see them on a table except in our epic games sadly.😕

I seriously doubt a ship allowing Jedis to double mod their attack every turn without even taking a single action to be under 40 points, if not 45.

35 sounds absolutely absurd to me. K-Wings are 38, with less health, no access to reinforce, and without a potent ship ability. At very least, you'll be able to run these with Barrage Rockets for huge arc coverage and better stats than a K-Wing, and probably a more usable dial.

Also for reference: Scum Falcon is 46, with an extra health but no Reinforce, and a more unwieldy large base, and no ship ability.

I think folks are really discounting this ship ability--2 dice rerolls are like 95% of Lock, and you get one per turn for free, plus an extra on the first round of combat. It ought to be really easy to use, too, since the only requirement is that you're both shooting at the same ship. I'd honestly be surprised at less than 41.

This isn't an ARC, this isn't a Scurrg. It probably isn't even a K-Wing or YT-1300 (and it's certainly has zero resemblance to a Punisher). The LAAT is a Lambda Shuttle, and a good one. I'm sure some folks will be disappointed in it, since they didn't want a Lambda shuttle but a bruiser and fighting ship of some kind. This ship almost surely isn't really that. Support Ships can be boring, but the LAAT seems like a really nice and interesting support ship.

12 hours ago, dsul413 said:

What’s wrong with hyenas?

Whether Kalani is a trap is very dependent on points and the list you bring for sure. There is a ton we still don’t know about the HMP. I’m not ready to say how difficult it will be to cost or anything - a lot of people pushed that the RZ-2 was trash during the previews and realized quickly that it’s a super solid ship. I actually think most RZ-2 pilots are priced pretty reasonably right now in the faction, though.

What I was getting at with the RZ-2 is precisely that: people thought it was trash at the start, which is simply another way of saying that you'll never recoup the points expended in-game, but now there is still outcry calling for multiple pilots to go up in points. It's a ship where the costing is seemingly on the razor's edge. Make it just a little more expensive, and you might as well take T-70s. Too cheap and it's (apparently) a spammable NPE. Personally, I agree that most RZ-2's are just fine; but you can still find people saying they're too good. *shrug* The HMP, in the vacuum that we currently have, *SEEMS* like it might fall into a similar place in terms of costing - mostly down to that 180 arc and statline.

And Hyenas. @theBitterFig touched on them. "They're mostly just used as beefier Vultures." It's not that Hyenas are bad so much as munitions are generally less good. And Hyenas, like many other ships, are designed and encouraged and pay for the ability to equip those munitions. And Hyenas, even more than most munitions carriers, just die before they ever get those munitions off. The HMP, with its reload action and a spoiled new munition in the pack, is seemingly designed primarily as a munitions carrier, just like Hyenas. And munitions are so lackluster. I mean, I get it. No one wants to see powerful four-dice attacks spammed all over the place, least of all me. (We won't derail this thread with the discussion of why I hate the VCX, the YT-2400, or the Upsilon.) But so many munitions (I'm looking at you, Missiles) so rarely do *anything* in practical effect. I'll grant that may be a factor more of my meta than anything else - my locals LOVE Imperial and FO Aces. But still, when it comes to the list building stage, when the question arises, "Should I keep the munitions or just cut them all out in order to get one more gun on the table?", well, I reckon you know the answer.

9 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

A lot of what I like about Kalani is the design, and what it rewards. More skill-based and not automatic. Effective? We'll see, but I think it's a good direction.

Kalani a trap... maybe. But for most Belbullab pilots, K2-B4 does literally nothing, TV-94 does literally nothing, TA-175 does literally nothing, and Kraken does--you guessed it--literally nothing. *ALL* existing Tactical Relays are calculate-based, and only one Belbullab pilot has the Calculate action.

Kalani, however, might do something. Not always, but still. There's probably some benefit to this triggering as something moves, so you'll still keep the Lock if they boost or roll out of bullseye. Belbullabs are also bank-ships instead of hard-turn-ships, and don't need to try to fly in close formation to maintain Networked Calculations. The way they'll behave on the table is really different, so I don't know that the mediocrity of HCPrototype and TV-94 (which doesn't work on 3 dice attacks, so not at Range 1 with a Vulture and not with any Belbullab) will automatically translate.

I guess it depends on cost, but again, Kalani is the only Tactical Relay that doesn't do literally nothing for a Focus-based Belbullab.

If he's 5 points like most Relays have started, 5 Skakoan Aces with Crack Shot and Kalani fits, and that's somewhat tempting. I suppose 5 with Predator would also fit. I guess I think I like Crack Shot more.

HMP is an ordnance ship? Hyena mostly isn't. Putting 2 or 3 Hyenas into a squad of vultures seems like it's currently the best way to fly these swarms in Hyperspace, and they're mostly used as just beefier Vultures.

The way that the HMP tempts me, and it'll depend on cost, is as something somewhat comparable to a TIE/sf or Turret Y-Wing: solid defensive statline, with very high time on target. My word if you can fit 6 in there with a DRK-1 Probe Droid? That'd be a sweet list to fly. I expect it won't quite fit, but with a good few of them they might have some potential. Spread some locks around to ensure everyone has perpetual rerolls, and leverage those massive 180 degree firing arcs.

As to Relays, most just don't seem good. HMP will die slow, so TA-175 doesn't seem worth. Kraken seems expensive, since Calculates are just less important to these without Networked Calculations. TV-94 doesn't really tempt me, since Kalani just seems better--I'd rather get rerolls on everyone than a single ship able to spend a Calc for a hit. However, K2-B2 is also really tempting, and adding longevity to an already tough ship sounds nice, particularly when it often won't need it's Calculate for offense.

In general, there's a lot of ships where thinking of them as Ordnance Ships is probably a mistake. Kimogilas and TIE Bombers are immensely cost efficient ships for their stats, and trying to overload them with munitions often doesn't get anywhere. The fact that they've got reload on them kinda tricks people into trying to use missiles or such, but often you just don't have to.

Depending on price, these HMP might have some of the same potential.

You're not wrong. I hadn't seen the synergy between Kalani and the Belbullab. But then again, I only have one Belbullab. Man, I would LOVE to have more, but I don't need that many Vultures, ha ha. I mean, yes, at the seemingly standard 5 points, Kalani isn't awful, but it certainly has a lot of hoops to jump through to trigger and pay for its ability. And we all know that *chasing* that sort of thing is a bad idea. Which is why I think Kalani is a little bit of a trap. We'll see eventually.

And my beef with Ordnance Ships is detailed above. It's poor design to have an entire class of weapon rendered basically useless from the start. I agree that the HMP is likely going to be a decent ship, all on its own. Just like the Kimogila is not too bad and the TIE Bomber is okay and the Hyena is decent. But why bother giving it munitions slots if it's NEVER going to take munitions? That's all; that, I guess, is my entire argument. Nobody wants to see a return to the Torpedo Boats meta - but right now, it's almost always better to simply cut the munitions entirely and just get one more little popgun on the board. Munitions are apparently wicked hard to cost appropriately.

All of this aside, I am looking forward to the HMP. But the Hyena broke my heart a little, and I'm still a little gunshy. Ha ha. All those sweet, fun, janky, munitions-focused special abilities, and in the end "They're...just...beefier Vultures." Ouch.

18 minutes ago, Kleeg005 said:

You're not wrong. I hadn't seen the synergy between Kalani and the Belbullab. But then again, I only have one Belbullab. Man, I would LOVE to have more, but I don't need that many Vultures, ha ha. I mean, yes, at the seemingly standard 5 points, Kalani isn't awful, but it certainly has a lot of hoops to jump through to trigger and pay for its ability. And we all know that *chasing* that sort of thing is a bad idea. Which is why I think Kalani is a little bit of a trap. We'll see eventually.

That's fair enough.

A large part of my initial interest in Kalani is that, after 4 Calculate-based Tactical Relays, we now have one that doesn't interact in any way with Calculate, and is Lock-based. That alone is a great opening up of the design space.

20 minutes ago, Kleeg005 said:

And my beef with Ordnance Ships is detailed above. It's poor design to have an entire class of weapon rendered basically useless from the start. I agree that the HMP is likely going to be a decent ship, all on its own. Just like the Kimogila is not too bad and the TIE Bomber is okay and the Hyena is decent. But why bother giving it munitions slots if it's NEVER going to take munitions? That's all; that, I guess, is my entire argument. Nobody wants to see a return to the Torpedo Boats meta - but right now, it's almost always better to simply cut the munitions entirely and just get one more little popgun on the board. Munitions are apparently wicked hard to cost appropriately.

All of this aside, I am looking forward to the HMP. But the Hyena broke my heart a little, and I'm still a little gunshy. Ha ha. All those sweet, fun, janky, munitions-focused special abilities, and in the end "They're...just...beefier Vultures." Ouch.

When FFG first announced variable pricing, my thought was that stuff like TIE Punishers and TIE Bombers would get discounts on Torpedoes and Missiles and such. This would allow a build with Ordnance to be fairly priced, without the non-Ordnance versions incredibly cost efficient.

I'd love to see something like that. A keyword like "Payload 2" or "Extra Munitions 3" or whatever, where the number indicates the discount on qualifying upgrades. TIE Bomber goes up by 1 or 2 points, but any missiles or torps or bombs go down by 2 or 3 or 4. I'd arguewe already have something like that for turrets. I think a Dorsal or Ion Cannon Turret already is discounted (Turret cheaper than Cannon?), and ships with turret slots already pay a premium for having the slot. Doing something more formal would probably go a long way towards justifying the "Munitions ship" design space.

7 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

When FFG first announced variable pricing, my thought was that stuff like TIE Punishers and TIE Bombers would get discounts on Torpedoes and Missiles and such. This would allow a build with Ordnance to be fairly priced, without the non-Ordnance versions incredibly cost efficient.

I'd love to see something like that. A keyword like "Payload 2" or "Extra Munitions 3" or whatever, where the number indicates the discount on qualifying upgrades. TIE Bomber goes up by 1 or 2 points, but any missiles or torps or bombs go down by 2 or 3 or 4. I'd argue we already have something like that for turrets. I think a Dorsal or Ion Cannon Turret already is discounted (Turret cheaper than Cannon?), and ships with turret slots already pay a premium for having the slot. Doing something more formal would probably go a long way towards justifying the "Munitions ship" design space.

This expresses much of my thinking in a manner far more precise than I can manage this early in the morning; thank you. It always bugged that a ship paid points over basic chassis cost for the opportunity to equip an upgrade, be it Torpedo or Turret or Cannon or whatever, and then paid for the upgrade itself on top of that. Variable pricing dependent upon the platform/chassis (and taking into account the ship's native attack pool?) would be lovely. If terribly complex and difficult for newer players to wrap their heads around. ****.

1 hour ago, Kleeg005 said:

This expresses much of my thinking in a manner far more precise than I can manage this early in the morning; thank you. It always bugged that a ship paid points over basic chassis cost for the opportunity to equip an upgrade, be it Torpedo or Turret or Cannon or whatever, and then paid for the upgrade itself on top of that. Variable pricing dependent upon the platform/chassis (and taking into account the ship's native attack pool?) would be lovely. If terribly complex and difficult for newer players to wrap their heads around. ****.

I think the issue is that most ships *don't* pay a premium for the slots.

Y-Wings and Aggressors and other turret ships do, but most don't. Kimos and TIE Bombers don't really pay for theirs, and as a result, turrets are good on Y-Wings (they've prepaid) but missiles are bad on TIE Bombers (they didn't).

Hey @Hiemfire can you shorten the name of this thread? It's wicked long in the notifications. 😛 😄

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

Hey @Hiemfire can you shorten the name of this thread? It's wicked long in the notifications. 😛 😄

Done.

Look, the K-wing doesn't;t look right: for 4 more points you get the Arc? no way.

Reminder that 3 attack dice is priced a LOT higher than 2.

Reminder also that empty upgrade slots are always worth 0. That's a rule we've learned to not mess with over history - its gotten soooo many ship's balance wrong over the years. If they aren't worth 0, which in some cases is true and live in 2.0, the upgrades themselves are generally cheaper than they should be.

2 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

A keyword like "Payload 2" or "Extra Munitions 3" or whatever, where the number indicates the discount on qualifying upgrades.

I wish we had this in the system. That's clean and makes a lot of sense.

Also mathematically it can make a lot of sense too: sometimes adding certain upgrades really doesn't improve the value from the chassis as much as the actual cost.
Reduction values (Payload X) though should be variable and done on the app, not printed.
I'd probably make them an upgrade card/ex-"ship-qualities" at this point, just to make things easy.

8 hours ago, Frimmel said:

What is the that picture of the Ghost on among the epic conversion and multiplayer box in the background? Is that a trophy that would have been a prize at Adepticon?

It's the trophy for the winners of Hyperspace Trial season 1 last year.

1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:

I think the issue is that most ships *don't* pay a premium for the slots.

Y-Wings and Aggressors and other turret ships do, but most don't. Kimos and TIE Bombers don't really pay for theirs, and as a result, turrets are good on Y-Wings (they've prepaid) but missiles are bad on TIE Bombers (they didn't).

I get your point. They *used to* pay - and I'm thinking mostly about Scyks here, as a Scum main. Scyks used to be more expensive - they effectively paid a tax for that hardpoint slot. And they never saw any table time because at that price point they couldn't reliably recoup their cost before being destroyed. *And* that was before you loaded them up with any kind of secondary weapon. Now that they are cheaper, now that the hardpoint tax has been removed, you do sometimes see them, albeit frequently naked, or at most with the cheapest option for a load-out. The expensive, truly effective munitions are still not used because a Scyk is still liable to be one-shotted off the board before it can deliver its payload.

Broadly speaking, it's usually better to just do damage, rather than to go for reduced damage plus even a strong control effect. Hence NO ONE ever using Ion Missiles or Ion Torpedoes, and very few ships equipping Ion Cannon or Ion Turrets even if they can. Just for example. Nobody equips Heavy Laser Cannon to any ships, as getting the opportunity to use them is so situational - you either fly perfectly or your opponent messes up. And an HLC is pretty darn cheap! It's an issue that has bugged me since 1.0, and 2.0 has the tools to address it. I wish they would.

Back to the matter at hand: the HMP Gunship. I went back to the original article spoiling the ship (Jan8!!!). I had forgotten that the card spread shows a Cannon upgrade and a Bomb upgrade as well as the Missiles. Wow. This things has got some tools! I fear that it will be pricey given our above discussion, but given that statline maybe it will be okay? And the Repulsorlift Stabilizers config.... So much possibility! I will probably pick up a couple, to start.