I have 2 list I have been building with Palpatine Commander. Not sure if any of them will work. But wanted to list them and see if maybe as a collective we can make one of them work. I feel list 2 and 3 need a lot of work and list #1 could be good. Any suggestions on the 3 fleets will be great! Thanks in advance

List #1

Name: Untitled Fleet
Faction: Imperial
Commander: Emperor Palpatine

Assault:
Defense:
Navigation:

Onager Testbed (96)
• Emperor Palpatine (35)
• Intel Officer (7)
• Gunnery Chief Varnillian (6)
• Veteran Gunners (5)
• Orbital Bombardment Particle Cannons (5)
• Rakehell (4)
= 158 Points

Onager Testbed (96)
• Intel Officer (7)
• Veteran Gunners (5)
• Orbital Bombardment Particle Cannons (5)
• Cataclysm (5)
= 118 Points

Gozanti Cruisers (23)
• Hondo Ohnaka (2)
• Comms Net (2)
• Expanded Hangar Bay (5)
= 32 Points

Gozanti Cruisers (23)
• Expanded Hangar Bay (5)
= 28 Points

Squadrons:
• Howlrunner (16)
• 4 x TIE Fighter Squadron (32)
• Valen Rudor (13)
= 61 Points

Total Points: 397

List #2

Name: Palpatine W/Demo
Faction: Imperial
Commander: Emperor Palpatine

Assault:
Defense:
Navigation:

Victory I (73)
• Emperor Palpatine (35)
• Intel Officer (7)
• Gunnery Chief Varnillian (6)
• XI7 Turbolasers (6)
• Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)
• Harrow (3)
• Engine Techs (8)
= 143 Points

Gladiator I (56)
• Intel Officer (7)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Engine Techs (8)
• Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)
• Demolisher (10)
= 90 Points

Gladiator I (56)
• Intel Officer (7)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)
• Insidious (3)
= 75 Points

Gozanti Cruisers (23)
• Taskmaster Grint (5)
• Expanded Hangar Bay (5)
= 33 Points

Squadrons:
• 4 x TIE Interceptor Squadron (44)
= 44 Points

Total Points: 385

7 hours ago, jpersons73 said:

List #1

Name: Untitled Fleet Faction: Imperial Commander: Emperor Palpatine

Assault: Defense: Navigation:

Onager Testbed (96) • Emperor Palpatine (35) • Commander Vanto (7) • Gunnery Chief Varnillian (6) • Veteran Gunners (5) • Orbital Bombardment Particle Cannons (5) • Rakehell (4) = 158 Points

Onager Testbed (96) • Strategic Adviser (4) • Veteran Gunners (5) • Orbital Bombardment Particle Cannons (5) • Cataclysm (5) = 115 Points

Gozanti Cruisers (23) • Hondo Ohnaka (2) • Comms Net (2) = 27 Points

Gozanti Cruisers (23) • Slicer Tools (7) = 30 Points

Squadrons: • 7 x TIE Fighter Squadron (56) = 56 Points

Total Points: 386

List #2

Name: Untitled Fleet Faction: Imperial

Commander: Emperor Palpatine

Assault: Defense: Navigation:

Gladiator I (56) • Expert Shield Tech (5) • Ordnance Experts (4) • Engine Techs (8) • Assault Proton Torpedoes (5) • Demolisher (10) = 88 Points

Gladiator I (56) • Expert Shield Tech (5) • Ordnance Experts (4) • Assault Proton Torpedoes (5) • Seventh Fleet Star Destroyer (5) = 75 Points

Victory I (73) • Emperor Palpatine (35) • Expert Shield Tech (5) • Gunnery Chief Varnillian (6) • XI7 Turbolasers (6) • Assault Proton Torpedoes (5) • Harrow (3) • Engine Techs (8) = 141 Points

Gladiator I (56) • Expert Shield Tech (5) • Ordnance Experts (4) • Assault Proton Torpedoes (5) • Seventh Fleet Star Destroyer (5) = 75 Points

Squadrons: = 0 Points

Total Points: 379

List #3

Name: Untitled Fleet Faction: Imperial Commander: Emperor Palpatine

Assault: Defense: Navigation:

Victory I (73) • Emperor Palpatine (35) • Ordnance Experts (4) • XI7 Turbolasers (6) • Assault Proton Torpedoes (5) = 123 Points

Victory I (73) • Ordnance Experts (4) • XI7 Turbolasers (6) • Assault Proton Torpedoes (5) = 88 Points

Victory I (73) • Ordnance Experts (4) • XI7 Turbolasers (6) • Assault Proton Torpedoes (5) = 88 Points

Victory I (73) • Ordnance Experts (4) • XI7 Turbolasers (6) • Assault Proton Torpedoes (5) = 88 Points

Squadrons: = 0 Points

Total Points: 387

Ok, I’m gonna take these one at a time. There may be some good stuff here with a couple of these.

List #1:

The bones of this are fundamentally solid; the big question is, “What is Palpatine contributing to this list, that another commander couldn’t give you, and is it worth his high price?” But let’s leave that for a minute.

Commander Vanto: Vanto has a lot of competition for his job as “command token efficiency officer.” Commandant Aresko, Wulff Yularen, Taskmaster Grint, and arguably Commander Beck all do very similar things for the same (or slightly fewer) points... that is, they get you a bonus command token when a certain once-per-turn (twice, for Beck) condition is met. Unfortunately, I don’t think Vanto stacks up very well.

Grint is cheaper, but more limited, in that he has to pick one particular command from which to generate his bonus token, and you must choose that command at the start of the game. So Grint is your best choice when you plan on using mostly that command on your dial. Ships that like to basically (or at least, frequently) do one thing love Grint; Quasars or Gozantis that will ONLY be throwing Squadron commands, Projection Experts Interdictors that plan to Engineer 4/6 of the game, that sort of thing. If you plan to say, maneuver the Rakehell at least every other turn all game long, forget Vanto, go with Grint.

Aresko exhausts to give you a bonus token when another nearby ship executed the order he wants a token for. A bit clunky, but when you have another ship which will usually be activating before the ship he’s on, and will usually want the same command, he’s an option, I suppose.

Yularen is potent and flexible, in that all you need to do to get a token is exhaust him when the ship he’s on spends s token of the desired type. He’s sort of like a slightly more expensive Grint that can change his desired command mid-game.

I don’t even want to address Beck. She’s creating a giant hole in the rules right now... bigger than any 3-point binder-fodder Officer has a right to... and until FFG offers a bit more clarification on how and why she works as she does, I’m not putting her in a list. If you want more info, go search “Beck” in the Rules thread.

Then there’s Vanto. Of these, Vanto is by far the most narrow and least user-friendly. In order to get his bonus token (of any type!), you must execute any command. Sounds simple! But it’s really not. You have to look at the order of operations regarding commands, and what token you’re looking to obtain, and see if it makes sense. For example, you reveal your dial, then the first thing you have the opportunity to do is spend it to Engineer. Then you can use it to activate Squadrons. Then you can Concentrate Fire with it. Then you can use it for Navigation. So, what if you’re being pressed pretty hard, and you want to use Vanto to get an Engineering token, and buy a shield? Okay, so you reveal your dial (which was set a while ago), and it comes up Navigation. And let’s say the only token you currently have is ConFire. The earliest you can possibly execute a command (ConFire) this turn is during your attack phase, but by then, you have missed your window to repair anything! So yes, you can get a token! But you can’t use it until NEXT turn. That’s... awful. And Vanto puts you in situations like that most of the time.

Vanto might work if you have a ship that always wants to do one thing for sure early in the turn, preferably with a dial, and always wants to do different thing later, and doesn’t mind using (or needs) a token. When you find that ship, please tell me what it is, and what those commands are.

TL;DR: If you really want a token maker on Rakehell, go with Grint or Yularen. The others are probably only good if you have several ships that ALL want token makers, and Grint and Yularen already have jobs.

The even bigger questions, though, are these: What is Vanto doing for you that a Comms Net can’t already do? And moreover: What is Rakehell doing that requires extra tokens at all? Cataclysm? That guy *might* want extra tokens, but already have Hondo, and after turn 1, Comms Net. But Rakehell just doesn’t need to be wasting 7 points and an Officer slot on unnecessary token generation. Intel Officer is a perfectly nasty guy who fits just fine for the same points, and synergizes VERY well with your Commander. That’s probably my first pick.

As for the other OTB, I’d probably skip Strategic Advisor, and go with an Intel Officer there, too. Strategic Advisor is great, but the synergy of Intel Officer with Palpatine is very strong, and since your whole game plan should be to burn defense tokens off the opponent quickly, I’d go with IO for sure.

Then there’s your Squadron component. It’s pretty decent as a speed bump, but I think you can improve it slightly. Drop Vanto and two TIEs, add Howlrunner and two Expanded Hangar Bays on the flotillas. Then you have only six squadrons to command, and a combined squadron value of six between the two Gozantis. If you’re able to get a strong alpha strike off (and leverage Howlrunner’s game text correctly), you can do some very serious damage to opposing squadrons. You’ll lose 3 points from your bid, but this is a list that probably doesn’t NEED to go first (or second). And an 11-point bid ain’t bad anyway.

This is a really long post to say “list #1 looks pretty good, but drop Vanto and 2 TIEs, add Howlrunner and 2 Expanded Hangar Bays,” so I’m just gonna gloss the other two lists quickly.

List #2:

7th Feet Star Destroyer is the sort of title that wants every ship that CAN have it, to have it. Harrow is the (only, if you ask me) title that makes a VSD-I worth flying, so I’d keep that. And Demolisher is an absolute must on the first GSD in any list. So if I were flying this list, I’d drop the 7th Fleet titles, and put Insidious on the second GSD, and fly the third with no title. That said... I wouldn’t fly this list as-is. It’s terrible against squadrons, and they’re gonna rip your ships apart; you literally have no reliable plan against a dedicated 120-points-plus bomber list. If you want to try and make it work, drop the third GSD, replace it with a flotilla, and put some fighters in. Or something. ANYTHING that gives you a plan against Lando, Luke, Norra, and a bunch of B-Wings (for example), because right now, that sort of list is an auto-loss for you.

List #3:

I don’t know how to say this, but this list is dead in the water. Not only does it have no squadron plan, but it’s filled with the slowest, least maneuverable ships in the game, with the absolute worst threat projection of any ship of comparable points. Ackbar will run circles around it, bombing it with waaaay more red dice than you can muster. Sato will bomb the crap out of it and hit it with heavier dice. Mothma will laugh at you while her MC-30s tear you apart from long range and dodge everything you throw at them, then jump behind your slow, clunky VSDs and blow them away with black dice. I don’t know where to begin to fix this one.

That said, the first one’s pretty good, and the second has potential! 🙂

1 hour ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Ok, I’m gonna take these one at a time. There may be some good stuff here with a couple of these.

List #1:

The bones of this are fundamentally solid; the big question is, “What is Palpatine contributing to this list, that another commander couldn’t give you, and is it worth his high price?” But let’s leave that for a minute.

Commander Vanto: Vanto has a lot of competition for his job as “command token efficiency officer.” Commandant Aresko, Wulff Yularen, Taskmaster Grint, and arguably Commander Beck all do very similar things for the same (or slightly fewer) points... that is, they get you a bonus command token when a certain once-per-turn (twice, for Beck) condition is met. Unfortunately, I don’t think Vanto stacks up very well.

Grint is cheaper, but more limited, in that he has to pick one particular command from which to generate his bonus token, and you must choose that command at the start of the game. So Grint is your best choice when you plan on using mostly that command on your dial. Ships that like to basically (or at least, frequently) do one thing love Grint; Quasars or Gozantis that will ONLY be throwing Squadron commands, Projection Experts Interdictors that plan to Engineer 4/6 of the game, that sort of thing. If you plan to say, maneuver the Rakehell at least every other turn all game long, forget Vanto, go with Grint.

Aresko exhausts to give you a bonus token when another nearby ship executed the order he wants a token for. A bit clunky, but when you have another ship which will usually be activating before the ship he’s on, and will usually want the same command, he’s an option, I suppose.

Yularen is potent and flexible, in that all you need to do to get a token is exhaust him when the ship he’s on spends s token of the desired type. He’s sort of like a slightly more expensive Grint that can change his desired command mid-game.

I don’t even want to address Beck. She’s creating a giant hole in the rules right now... bigger than any 3-point binder-fodder Officer has a right to... and until FFG offers a bit more clarification on how and why she works as she does, I’m not putting her in a list. If you want more info, go search “Beck” in the Rules thread.

Then there’s Vanto. Of these, Vanto is by far the most narrow and least user-friendly. In order to get his bonus token (of any type!), you must execute any command. Sounds simple! But it’s really not. You have to look at the order of operations regarding commands, and what token you’re looking to obtain, and see if it makes sense. For example, you reveal your dial, then the first thing you have the opportunity to do is spend it to Engineer. Then you can use it to activate Squadrons. Then you can Concentrate Fire with it. Then you can use it for Navigation. So, what if you’re being pressed pretty hard, and you want to use Vanto to get an Engineering token, and buy a shield? Okay, so you reveal your dial (which was set a while ago), and it comes up Navigation. And let’s say the only token you currently have is ConFire. The earliest you can possibly execute a command (ConFire) this turn is during your attack phase, but by then, you have missed your window to repair anything! So yes, you can get a token! But you can’t use it until NEXT turn. That’s... awful. And Vanto puts you in situations like that most of the time.

Vanto might work if you have a ship that always wants to do one thing for sure early in the turn, preferably with a dial, and always wants to do different thing later, and doesn’t mind using (or needs) a token. When you find that ship, please tell me what it is, and what those commands are.

TL;DR: If you really want a token maker on Rakehell, go with Grint or Yularen. The others are probably only good if you have several ships that ALL want token makers, and Grint and Yularen already have jobs.

The even bigger questions, though, are these: What is Vanto doing for you that a Comms Net can’t already do? And moreover: What is Rakehell doing that requires extra tokens at all? Cataclysm? That guy *might* want extra tokens, but already have Hondo, and after turn 1, Comms Net. But Rakehell just doesn’t need to be wasting 7 points and an Officer slot on unnecessary token generation. Intel Officer is a perfectly nasty guy who fits just fine for the same points, and synergizes VERY well with your Commander. That’s probably my first pick.

As for the other OTB, I’d probably skip Strategic Advisor, and go with an Intel Officer there, too. Strategic Advisor is great, but the synergy of Intel Officer with Palpatine is very strong, and since your whole game plan should be to burn defense tokens off the opponent quickly, I’d go with IO for sure.

Then there’s your Squadron component. It’s pretty decent as a speed bump, but I think you can improve it slightly. Drop Vanto and two TIEs, add Howlrunner and two Expanded Hangar Bays on the flotillas. Then you have only six squadrons to command, and a combined squadron value of six between the two Gozantis. If you’re able to get a strong alpha strike off (and leverage Howlrunner’s game text correctly), you can do some very serious damage to opposing squadrons. You’ll lose 3 points from your bid, but this is a list that probably doesn’t NEED to go first (or second). And an 11-point bid ain’t bad anyway.

This is a really long post to say “list #1 looks pretty good, but drop Vanto and 2 TIEs, add Howlrunner and 2 Expanded Hangar Bays,” so I’m just gonna gloss the other two lists quickly.

List #2:

7th Feet Star Destroyer is the sort of title that wants every ship that CAN have it, to have it. Harrow is the (only, if you ask me) title that makes a VSD-I worth flying, so I’d keep that. And Demolisher is an absolute must on the first GSD in any list. So if I were flying this list, I’d drop the 7th Fleet titles, and put Insidious on the second GSD, and fly the third with no title. That said... I wouldn’t fly this list as-is. It’s terrible against squadrons, and they’re gonna rip your ships apart; you literally have no reliable plan against a dedicated 120-points-plus bomber list. If you want to try and make it work, drop the third GSD, replace it with a flotilla, and put some fighters in. Or something. ANYTHING that gives you a plan against Lando, Luke, Norra, and a bunch of B-Wings (for example), because right now, that sort of list is an auto-loss for you.

List #3:

I don’t know how to say this, but this list is dead in the water. Not only does it have no squadron plan, but it’s filled with the slowest, least maneuverable ships in the game, with the absolute worst threat projection of any ship of comparable points. Ackbar will run circles around it, bombing it with waaaay more red dice than you can muster. Sato will bomb the crap out of it and hit it with heavier dice. Mothma will laugh at you while her MC-30s tear you apart from long range and dodge everything you throw at them, then jump behind your slow, clunky VSDs and blow them away with black dice. I don’t know where to begin to fix this one.

That said, the first one’s pretty good, and the second has potential! 🙂

Thanks for the information. The 3rd fleet was just a throw together and was never much of an option. I started this with the hope that maybe as a community we could build something that will work for Pap. See how he is really lack luster for the point cost. I will add in the suggestions and edit the first post and remove fleet 3. Maybe someone will have a better idea for fleet 3.

I like the idea of Palpatine. My problem has always been that I can't hit enough stuff on the right turn to make him pay off.

Double Onager might work though, and I would be interested to see how you do with it.

I had some pretty good success with this fleet over the weekend. My opposition pick advance gunnery and that really hurt once the ISD got in close range on his second Star Hawk. With Paps, IO on both ships and my little squad ball that Hawk had no D tokens and was melted in the 4th round. Granted his bad position of his Agate Star Hawk may have played a larger hand in my victory. But that is all part of the game. I will tweak this fleet a little with the squads.

Faction: Imperial
Commander: Emperor Palpatine

Assault: Advanced Gunnery
Defense: Fighter Ambush
Navigation: Superior Positions

Onager Testbed (96)
• Emperor Palpatine (35)
• Intel Officer (7)
• Gunnery Chief Varnillian (6)
• Veteran Gunners (5)
• Orbital Bombardment Particle Cannons (5)
• Cataclysm (5)
= 159 Points

ISD Kuat Refit (112)
• Intel Officer (7)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• External Racks (3)
= 126 Points

Gozanti Cruisers (23)
• Hondo Ohnaka (2)
• Repair Crews (4)
= 29 Points

Squadrons:
• Captain Jonus (16)
• 3 x TIE Defender Squadron (48)
• 2 x TIE Fighter Squadron (16)
= 80 Points

Total Points: 394

13 hours ago, jpersons73 said:

I had some pretty good success with this fleet over the weekend. My opposition pick advance gunnery and that really hurt once the ISD got in close range on his second Star Hawk. With Paps, IO on both ships and my little squad ball that Hawk had no D tokens and was melted in the 4th round. Granted his bad position of his Agate Star Hawk may have played a larger hand in my victory. But that is all part of the game. I will tweak this fleet a little with the squads.

Faction: Imperial
Commander: Emperor Palpatine

Assault: Advanced Gunnery
Defense: Fighter Ambush
Navigation: Superior Positions

Onager Testbed (96)
• Emperor Palpatine (35)
• Intel Officer (7)
• Gunnery Chief Varnillian (6)
• Veteran Gunners (5)
• Orbital Bombardment Particle Cannons (5)
• Cataclysm (5)
= 159 Points

ISD Kuat Refit (112)
• Intel Officer (7)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• External Racks (3)
= 126 Points

Gozanti Cruisers (23)
• Hondo Ohnaka (2)
• Repair Crews (4)
= 29 Points

Squadrons:
• Captain Jonus (16)
• 3 x TIE Defender Squadron (48)
• 2 x TIE Fighter Squadron (16)
= 80 Points

Total Points: 394

That looks like a pretty sweet Palpatine fleet!

I’m not 100% behind the squad ball, mainly because you’re short on squadron commands for it. I’d probably cut a TIE Fighter or two and spread the points around on those Defenders to turn them into Rogues or higher-quality fighters like Maarek/Jendon/any 20 point Rogue. Keep Jonus, he’s amazing with Onagers.

I also think you absolutely NEED to find 7 points for ECMs on that Kuat. One of the great advantages of the Kuat is that it can hold a Defensive Retrofit. Use it! You don’t have a ton of wiggle room, unless you want to reduce the squadron ball, which I wouldn’t. That leaves Cataclysm, Hondo, and Repair Crews as your only expendable upgrades, but honestly, I think you could lose them all to add ECMs and Rogues.

9 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

That looks like a pretty sweet Palpatine fleet!

I’m not 100% behind the squad ball, mainly because you’re short on squadron commands for it. I’d probably cut a TIE Fighter or two and spread the points around on those Defenders to turn them into Rogues or higher-quality fighters like Maarek/Jendon/any 20 point Rogue. Keep Jonus, he’s amazing with Onagers.

I also think you absolutely NEED to find 7 points for ECMs on that Kuat. One of the great advantages of the Kuat is that it can hold a Defensive Retrofit. Use it! You don’t have a ton of wiggle room, unless you want to reduce the squadron ball, which I wouldn’t. That leaves Cataclysm, Hondo, and Repair Crews as your only expendable upgrades, but honestly, I think you could lose them all to add ECMs and Rogues.

So this was what I was looking at before you posted. I did add in ECM. Also figured taking away the Repair Crew and add in EH on the Flotilla was a better return for the point cost. Added in Rudor, Ree and Jendon with Saber Squad. I feel this fleet does not care if it is 1st or 2nd

Faction: Imperial
Commander: Emperor Palpatine

Assault: Advanced Gunnery
Defense: Fighter Ambush
Navigation: Superior Positions

Onager Testbed (96)
• Emperor Palpatine (35)
• Intel Officer (7)
• Gunnery Chief Varnillian (6)
• Veteran Gunners (5)
• Orbital Bombardment Particle Cannons (5)
• Cataclysm (5)
= 159 Points

ISD Kuat Refit (112)
• Intel Officer (7)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Electronic Countermeasures (7)
• External Racks (3)
= 133 Points

Gozanti Cruisers (23)
• Hondo Ohnaka (2)
• Expanded Hangar Bay (5)
= 30 Points

Squadrons:
• Captain Jonus (16)
• Valen Rudor (13)
• Ciena Ree (17)
• Colonel Jendon (20)
• Saber Squadron (12)
= 78 Points

Total Points: 400

Not bad! I think the squad ball is in a much better place now. My only concern is that you lack enough squadron commands, and none of them are Rogues. Now, this can work, but I think you’ll have more success if some of your squads are self-sufficient.

I love all of the five guys you picked. But let’s imagine for a moment that you drop EHB, Valen, Ciena, and Saber. That’s 47 points. That’s Bossk and Hondo. Or Boba Fett and either IG-88 or IG-88B. Or maybe some other combo I hadn’t considered. Trading in 3 non-Rogues and EHBs for 2 Rogue aces gives your Gozanti flotilla the ability to always command your non-Rogues (Maarek & Jendon, a proven combo if ever there was one), and allows you to have two high-hull, bad-assed Rogues running amok. Other than that, looks great! I would totally run this. Let me know how The Emperor does for you!

8 hours ago, jpersons73 said:

So this was what I was looking at before you posted. I did add in ECM. Also figured taking away the Repair Crew and add in EH on the Flotilla was a better return for the point cost. Added in Rudor, Ree and Jendon with Saber Squad. I feel this fleet does not care if it is 1st or 2nd

Faction: Imperial
Commander: Emperor Palpatine

Assault: Advanced Gunnery
Defense: Fighter Ambush
Navigation: Superior Positions...

Hoooold up, sorry. Last thing here. I didn’t think to look at your objectives.

Advanced Gunnery is okay I guess. I feel like this might prefer Surprise Attack, maybe. Or maybe some other red. But the other two are bad for you. Possibly real bad.

Fighter Ambush & Superior Positions are 2/3 of the so-called “Unholy Trinity” of squadron-friendly objectives. You take these (and Precision Strike, the other 1/3 of the Trinity) ONLY when you are running an immensely powerful fighter group of 120+ points. Running these with a medium fighter group like yours is suicide; anyone who brings 100 points or more of squadrons to face you is probably going to kick your teeth in.

Contested Outpost could be great for you; both your Onager and your Kuat Destroyer will be glad to know where the focal point of the battle will be, and the Kuat should be big enough (and scary enough) to seize it.

You could likewise go for the very similar Doomed Station for your blue, but other objectives like Infested Fields or Hyperspace Migration might also serve you well.

28 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Hoooold up, sorry. Last thing here. I didn’t think to look at your objectives.

Advanced Gunnery is okay I guess. I feel like this might prefer Surprise Attack, maybe. Or maybe some other red. But the other two are bad for you. Possibly real bad.

Fighter Ambush & Superior Positions are 2/3 of the so-called “Unholy Trinity” of squadron-friendly objectives. You take these (and Precision Strike, the other 1/3 of the Trinity) ONLY when you are running an immensely powerful fighter group of 120+ points. Running these with a medium fighter group like yours is suicide; anyone who brings 100 points or more of squadrons to face you is probably going to kick your teeth in.

Contested Outpost could be great for you; both your Onager and your Kuat Destroyer will be glad to know where the focal point of the battle will be, and the Kuat should be big enough (and scary enough) to seize it.

You could likewise go for the very similar Doomed Station for your blue, but other objectives like Infested Fields or Hyperspace Migration might also serve you well.

Yes I meant to change those objectives after I revamped the fleet. I like SP because it lets me know where the other fleet will set up and lets me keep the onager at range but I do understand what you are saying and will definitely look at those as objectives.

Just now, jpersons73 said:

Yes I meant to change those objectives after I revamped the fleet. I like SP because it lets me know where the other fleet will set up and lets me keep the onager at range but I do understand what you are saying and will definitely look at those as objectives.

So there’s another option that gives you all the Superior Positions upside of making the opponent deploy first, but doesn’t hand you an auto-loss against a squadron-heavy opponent, and that’s Solar Corona.

1 minute ago, Cpt ObVus said:

So there’s another option that gives you all the Superior Positions upside of making the opponent deploy first, but doesn’t hand you an auto-loss against a squadron-heavy opponent, and that’s Solar Corona.

funny you say that I just changed SP for SC

36 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Hoooold up, sorry. Last thing here. I didn’t think to look at your objectives.

Advanced Gunnery is okay I guess. I feel like this might prefer Surprise Attack, maybe. Or maybe some other red. But the other two are bad for you. Possibly real bad.

Fighter Ambush & Superior Positions are 2/3 of the so-called “Unholy Trinity” of squadron-friendly objectives. You take these (and Precision Strike, the other 1/3 of the Trinity) ONLY when you are running an immensely powerful fighter group of 120+ points. Running these with a medium fighter group like yours is suicide; anyone who brings 100 points or more of squadrons to face you is probably going to kick your teeth in.

Contested Outpost could be great for you; both your Onager and your Kuat Destroyer will be glad to know where the focal point of the battle will be, and the Kuat should be big enough (and scary enough) to seize it.

You could likewise go for the very similar Doomed Station for your blue, but other objectives like Infested Fields or Hyperspace Migration might also serve you well.

So when a Flag ship is sett up for Surprise attack how far outside of the players deployment zone is it able to be place? Like does the ship have to be on top of the Station or can just a corner of the ship be on the station? I always took overlap as being on top of the station. Never fully understood that one and guess I could go look in the rules section

Maybe the final tweak

Commander: Emperor Palpatine

Assault: Surprise Attack
Defense: Contested Outpost
Navigation: Solar Corona

Onager Testbed (96)
• Emperor Palpatine (35)
• Intel Officer (7)
• Gunnery Chief Varnillian (6)
• Veteran Gunners (5)
• Orbital Bombardment Particle Cannons (5)
• Cataclysm (5)
= 159 Points

ISD Kuat Refit (112)
• Intel Officer (7)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Electronic Countermeasures (7)
• External Racks (3)
= 133 Points

Gozanti Cruisers (23)
• Hondo Ohnaka (2)
= 25 Points

Squadrons:
• Captain Jonus (16)
• Colonel Jendon (20)
• Bossk (23)
• IG-88 (21)
= 80 Points

Total Points: 397

28 minutes ago, jpersons73 said:

So when a Flag ship is sett up for Surprise attack how far outside of the players deployment zone is it able to be place? Like does the ship have to be on top of the Station or can just a corner of the ship be on the station? I always took overlap as being on top of the station. Never fully understood that one and guess I could go look in the rules section

As long as the opponent sets up with some tiny part of his flagship on the station, he’s fulfilling the requirements of the objective.

The real advantage of Surprise Attack is that you’re severely disrupting the opponent’s opening game. His speeds are limited (which brawlers like your Kuat and snipers like your Onager will both appreciate). And the stack of Raid Tokens you’ll be giving him for the first few rounds can be horribly debilitating... not only is his speed impaired at deployment, but now he can’t easily adjust it? For several turns? Ouch. Or maybe he’s brought a huge group of B-Wing bombers... which he cannot easily command, because you’re raiding him for squadron commands. Crippling.

So potentially crippling, in fact, that I have personally never had an opponent choose Surprise Attack when facing me. They almost always seem to think they have a better shot at my yellow or blue objectives. For that matter, I’ve never once chosen Surprise Attack from an opponent’s pool, either! It scares the willies out of me. 🙂

2 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

As long as the opponent sets up with some tiny part of his flagship on the station, he’s fulfilling the requirements of the objective.

The real advantage of Surprise Attack is that you’re severely disrupting the opponent’s opening game. His speeds are limited (which brawlers like your Kuat and snipers like your Onager will both appreciate). And the stack of Raid Tokens you’ll be giving him for the first few rounds can be horribly debilitating... not only is his speed impaired at deployment, but now he can’t easily adjust it? For several turns? Ouch. Or maybe he’s brought a huge group of B-Wing bombers... which he cannot easily command, because you’re raiding him for squadron commands. Crippling.

So potentially crippling, in fact, that I have personally never had an opponent choose Surprise Attack when facing me. They almost always seem to think they have a better shot at my yellow or blue objectives. For that matter, I’ve never once chosen Surprise Attack from an opponent’s pool, either! It scares the willies out of me. 🙂

Got it now and thank you for that answer

2 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

As long as the opponent sets up with some tiny part of his flagship on the station, he’s fulfilling the requirements of the objective.

The real advantage of Surprise Attack is that you’re severely disrupting the opponent’s opening game. His speeds are limited (which brawlers like your Kuat and snipers like your Onager will both appreciate). And the stack of Raid Tokens you’ll be giving him for the first few rounds can be horribly debilitating... not only is his speed impaired at deployment, but now he can’t easily adjust it? For several turns? Ouch. Or maybe he’s brought a huge group of B-Wing bombers... which he cannot easily command, because you’re raiding him for squadron commands. Crippling.

So potentially crippling, in fact, that I have personally never had an opponent choose Surprise Attack when facing me. They almost always seem to think they have a better shot at my yellow or blue objectives. For that matter, I’ve never once chosen Surprise Attack from an opponent’s pool, either! It scares the willies out of me. 🙂

The psychological effect is real, but also often irrational.

All you need to do is bank a nav token round one and boom, you get your R2 speed change to min or max speed. Worse, your opponent is effectively cheated out of 1 raid dial if he set both for nav (or if you can discard the nav dial and use just the token.) Or Comms Net a nav token over with a Gozanti and keep the raid token around on the flotilla forever while you do whatever the heck you want with real ships. Heck, I've picked it with Jerjerrod MSU and felt like I was majorly cheating the system, because he goes where he wants.

Granted carrier lists shouldn't usually pick it, but combat fleets can walk all over that level of raid with a little preparation. Losing deployment against an Onager is the bigger deal.

4 hours ago, The Jabbawookie said:

The psychological effect is real, but also often irrational.

All you need to do is bank a nav token round one and boom, you get your R2 speed change to min or max speed. Worse, your opponent is effectively cheated out of 1 raid dial if he set both for nav (or if you can discard the nav dial and use just the token.) Or Comms Net a nav token over with a Gozanti and keep the raid token around on the flotilla forever while you do whatever the heck you want with real ships. Heck, I've picked it with Jerjerrod MSU and felt like I was majorly cheating the system, because he goes where he wants.

Granted carrier lists shouldn't usually pick it, but combat fleets can walk all over that level of raid with a little preparation. Losing deployment against an Onager is the bigger deal.

The only times I’ve ever been presented with it (or offered it to someone), there were ships like SSDs or Onagers or Squall ready to really make it count (the Empire definitely makes the best use of Surprise Attack, doesn’t it?).

Everything you’re saying about Surprise Attack seeming scarier than it is is true, though some high-pressure fleets can really exploit a slow start.