Hey players!

I'm sure you want to a bit rest from the constant news about corona, so I have prepared for you the new article from the Player Card Review series:

https://visionofthepalantir.com/2020/03/21/player-card-review-the-long-dark/

Feel free to comment and add your own opinions to cards from this adventure pack. I'm ceratin that there will be much to discuss.:)

Silblade

My takes:

I think it's clear that the Eomer/Feint combo was *not* too powerful and needed to be errata-ed. We know this because when the power of the Hama-lock to nerf Shadow and Flame became clear (as if they didn't already know about it from Hama being developed in the same cycle), they responded with errata to *Feint* so that it ceased to work for all players! Stopping one non-immune enemy over-and-over at the cost of your card draw every turn was not deemed broken. The Hama/Thicket combo which allowed a mono-tactics deck to monopolize combat was also already available at that time, though Hammer Stroke wouldn't come along until the next cycle.

Are there tactics event *since* then which justify the errata? Oath of Eorl is extremely powerful, as is Wait no Longer, but I think the tactics event that would be most abusively powerful is Gwaihir's Debt. With Radagast hero, an Eagle hero, and Wizard's Pipe you can easily set that up to hit every turn for one cost, using either core Gandalf or OHUH Gandalf.

But with that said, any event which is too powerful to play every turn is arguably too powerful to play at least four times in a row and possibly 12 times going through the deck (3x, 3x Hama, 3x records, 3x when they come up again). I think the better errata would have been to make any event deemed too powerful to recur indefinitely *remove itself from the game when played*. Hama's recursion wasn't a problem when applied to weaker events, but the form of the errata makes it so you can't afford to waste him on anything but the strongest events -- the errata actually forces the behavior deemed problematic.

Erestor: his ability is certainly useful if you stock multiples of unique cards, and will really come into its own with later cards that work from the discard -- but even without either of those, there's no end of cases where a blind draw replacement for an in-hand card is an excellent gamble. It's a useful ability, doubly so because it doesn't require exhaustion -- he can cycle your deck *and* quest for 2.

Fresh Tracks: this isn't a card I've used a lot, the one hp is not likely to be decisive and the ability to avoid engagement is also very situational. With only a one-turn engagement deferral, there are situations where it might be useful but that situation might never come up. I think the ideal use might be a direct damage deck (for example Thalin + Gondorian Spearman) where it's another tool to eliminate enemies with a specific amount of hit points. Some quests also plop an obnoxious non-immune enemy at a particular stage, and this usually happens after you've just quested; if you'd rather keep it in staging for a turn rather than engage it right away, this can be a good sideboard card to ensure that happens.

Erebor Battle Master: poor EBM, errata-ed not once by twice to weaken him. I think the +4 cap is gratitous -- if you can afford a 3-cost tactics dwarves and you already control another 5 or more dwarf allies, you're likely swimming in non-ranged attack already! OTOH, if the errata is likely to affect you, 3 cost for 5 attack is still excellent bang for the buck, especially for a non-unique ally.

Ring Mail: it's true at this point of the game that Ring Mail doesn't have a lot of obvious targets. It can go on allies, but none of the released allies are good defenders. Bifur and Bilbo can take ABB, but even with Ring Mail attached Bilbo's 3/3 is still a bit squishy and both have non-combat abilities that would discourage defense without *both* attached. Gloin and Gimli can use the extra hp, but it's an expensive way to get it (and in Gimli's case, takes a restricted spot that could otherwise be used for Citadel Plate or a weapon).

Dain is the best target, since it will make him a sturdy 4/5 and by the time he defends his most important boost (willpower) will have already helped out with questing. Looking forward, this attachment will become increasingly useful, though with more competition for defensive buffs. Heroes like Spirit Dain, Dori, Sam, and Tom Cotton all are defense focused, and you'll also have more allies capable of solid defense.

Out of Sight: I don't think this is a great card, but I think you underrate its potential. This isn't just a card to deal with low-engagement enemies that happen to engage you, it's also a card that allows you to deal with a *higher* engagement enemy knowing you don't have to worry about defense. If you don't have to defend, it can become *much* easier to destroy an enemy. (Since secrecy decks tend to be combat-weak, the ability to Thicket low-engagement enemies can also be useful, letting them concentrate their meagre combat talents to take out weak enemies.)

More to the point, at this point in the card pool secrecy decks are still awful, and this card doesn't change that. When secrecy decks first become viable in Black Riders, Sam and LoPippin both reward you for engaging higher threat enemies and in *that* context, engaging higher threat enemies becomes a way of life for secrecy deck. The stereotypical stay-in-secrecy lineup of Sam/LoPippin/SpMerry can make good use of this card; the main issue then becomes that 2 spirit resources can be a heavy cost for a tri-sphere deck, especially when you are only dealing with a single enemy.

Ever my Heart Rises: classic sideboard card, insanely good value in a dwarf deck with Underground/Mountain locations, completely useless outside that context. Outside the current cycle, Hobbit saga and Ered Mithrin probably have the highest proportion of such quests, but there's a smattering of others where it would be worth including.

For quests where it does work, the threat/readying will be useful to any deck; but unless you have enough players that you're travelling *every* turn it's not really a card that's useful to stay in secrecy.

Warden of Healing: should absolutely be 5 star, the long-established best healer in the game (yes Ioreth, you're wonderful too -- but you're also unique). Being able to heal two characters at once may or may not be more useful than Nimrodel's two healing, but the ability to heal *characters* instead of heroes is priceless and makes him better than Nimrodel even without considering his more affordable cost. The only problem with Warden is his single hp, he's squishy. That's *without* considering his pay-for-ready ability, he's still the best card in the pack.

You ding him for his readying ability, despite the fact that he's awesome even if it doesn't exist, and that Lore resources aren't as scarce as they once were with Bifur on the scene. Warden readies like any other ally in the refresh phase, this just allows him to ready any number of times (if you can afford it) for extra healings in the same turn. I've used Warden in a lot of decks and very rarely use this power, but when you need to use it, it is well worth the money. It arguably should be errataed with a limit, since Elrond/Gloin/Warden/Narvi's Belt allows Gloin to take *any number* of undefended attacks (subject to hp capacity), since Gloin can immediately pay for complete healing of all his damage with a single Warden (with the first two damage for free). That's *way* more broken than Hama ever was!

Word of Command: You're missing the obvious interaction with core Gandalf -- you play this card in the Refresh phase, after Gandalf is readied and before he disappears. The only issue with this card at this point is just getting it and Gandalf together, since Radagast is such a lousy ally. In the future, OHUH Gandalf, hero Gandalf, hero Radagast and hero Saruman will make this a terrific, affordable combo fetcher.

Love of Tales: at this point in the card pool this is a weak card, though it does have the virtue of being free. As the card pool events you'll get more songs, even a song tactics event that you could recur with Hama (but only three times!). It'd see more usage if it weren't restricted to Lore heroes, songs are scattered across various spheres so it's most useful in a tri-sphere deck, but that's precisely the deck where you wouldn't want three copies, and as a song Love of Tales could trigger itself. Since it triggers with *any* song being played, it's better with more players (which also gives you more targets), and some of the later songs like South Away or Drinking Song you can expect to be 3x in the right deck. I expect Song of Healing to see wide use when it's released.

Best card -- Warden of Healing, no questions asked. Practically a Lore staple.

Worst card -- at the time both Love of Tales and Out of Sight were worst, now I'd probably go with Out of Sight, not because it isn't useful to (now-viable) Secrecy decks but at its cost it isn't useful *enough* to make the cut. Love of Tales and Ever My Heart Rises are useful in much more limited circumstances, but in those circumstances they are quite useful.

Hey dale,

it's probably due to my unsufficient understanding in foreign language, but I dunno how to respond you on the part of Háma and errata, because I haven't get the full point of your ideas.

I solely use Fresh Tracks with other dealing-damage cards: namely Thalin , alternatively with Gondorian Spearman , because that's 3 damage from the start. That means a serious injure to many average enemies and a good start for beating strong enemies. But yeah, it's a very good and quality sideboard card. Without these two fellows I wouldn't probably play with Fresh Tracks, in general.

Erebor Battle Master had really bad luck, 2 errata at once seems unfair to him. But even with limit, 3 cost for 5 attack still worth it, as you said. The funny thing is, that even I have included him to every Dwarf deck, I did without his services. The reason is simple: when you have other Dwarves on the table, you have already "won" regarding combat - Dáin Ironfoot + for example 2 Veteran Axehand and some other Dwarves is astonishing offensive power, able to deal with many enemies, even without the presence of Erebor Battle Master, who is just the icing on the cake.

Dáin Ironfoot is great target for Ring Mail , if you attach him Unexpected Courage, otherwise you must make do without his passive ability.

Because I dunno, how the Secrecy deck looks like with Hobbits from Black Riders , can't evaluate, how Out of Sight would work there. But as I have rich experiences with 2-heroes Secrecy decks :), nothing forces me to add Out of Sight to the deck… actually, whole Spirit sphere within Secrecy deck. Maybe except for Spirit Glorfindel .:) The situation you describe (optionally engage the enemy with higher engagement cost and play Out of Sight WITHIN Secrecy deck) seems to me very situational and a bit clumsy. Secrecy decks don't offer too much viable combatants, able to destroy stronger enemies.

Oh… I thought that Warden of Healing will ready ONLY if you pay 2 Lore resource for him . If it isn't a true, then it changes… everything.:D THen it would surely deserve 5 stars and the chamiponship title. It would mean I have played wrong with all the time. Then you surely understand, that Warden of Healing, who couldn't ready during Refresh phase, but only if you pay for him some resources, wouldn't be so much usable. Then I would have to adjust and update the review with him, because it changes the situation and my opinion on him.

Word of Command: that's another surprise for me. It's true that the final phase I do automatically and remove Gandalf immediately after readying all characters, without any action window. So that's another "little" detail, which I have to take into consideration in review.

Then after update TOP CARD is surely Warden of Healing, Fresh Tracks can't compete with him.

My Hama comments are mostly ranting about the Errata. Hama *now* is less poweful -- and more significantly, less flexible -- than Hama was when originally released. With a thrice per game limit, he can't afford to recur anything but the most powerful tactics events. But here's the thing, recurring a powerful tactics event three times *really is* a strong ability, like Caldara with her errata he can still be a strong hero; he's just not as interesting a hero.

It's no wonder you didn't often use Warden of Healing if you thought he didn't ready in the refresh phase! You'll definitely want to update your article.

Dain Ironfoot can be a great target for Ring Mail even without Unexpected Courage. Yes, exhausting Dain for defense sacrifices his passive boost, but that happens only *after* he has boosted dwarven willpower in the questing phase. With the willpower boost in place, it's not hard to muster plenty of attack from a dwarven swarm even without Dain's help, especially if you have a rock solid defender (Dain) to prevent dwarf-chumping. Chumping is the enemy of a swarm deck.

Your experience with two-hero secrecy decks in Dwarrowdelf certainly does not encourage use of Out of Sight -- they survive only with a strong partner deck that does the real work with tougher foes, so why would they want to engage someone tough? But two-hero secrecy decks were and are not popular in this part in the pool precisely because they are so weak, all of them would immediately be improved by adding a third hero. Evaluating Secrecy cards in a progression context is like evaluating Fast Hitch in terms of the Hobbits you would want to ready when the card came out (that would be none of them....). When secrecy decks *do* become more widely used with the release of Black Riders, then engaging higher threat enemies is something a lot of those decks *intentionally* do. The card pool gets *lots* of cards that key specifically on engaging or being engaged with higher threat: heroes Sam Gamgee, Lore Pippin, and Tom Cotton. Allies Pippin, Bywater Sheriff, Gaffer Gamgee, Boromir, and Farmer Maggot. Attachments Staff of Lebethron, Hobbit Cloak and Dagger of Westernessee. Events Unseen Strike (which we've already seen), A Elbereth Gilthoniel, In the Shadows, Taste it Again, and Raise the Shire. Some of these cards are secrecy staples. I know this is all in the future, but the point is that once secrecy decks become solo capable -- which isn't too far away -- secrecy decks engage higher threat enemies *all the time*. The premise that this card is weak because secrecy decks won't want to engage higher threat, more dangerous enemies is 100% false -- the most popular secrecy decks will routinely do exactly that.

The problem is that there's a long gap between the time secrecy decks become viable and the time secrecy decks can reasonably expect to *stay* in secrecy, and that hurts the usefulness of the card badly. Outside of secrecy the card is massively too expensive, so the popular secrecy cards become one-time permanent boosts like Resourceful and Timely Aid that you can play in the narrow secrecy window. It's not until SpMerry comes out (Angmar cycle) that the card becomes useful -- but it's still expensive even in secrecy, since those decks have a much smaller likelihood of multiple enemies than a mono-tactics deck playing Thicket. If you're just using as an expensive feint it's marginal, and once Gaffer Gamgee comes along (though in a different sphere) you have a much better way of stopping one above-engagement enemy from attacking.

So you aren't wrong that it's a weak card, but it's not weak because it's not useful *in Dwarrowdelf*. None of the secrecy cards, even Timely Aid and Resourceful, are useful in Dwarrowdelf, because secrecy decks aren't useful in Dwarrowdelf. It will be a very useful effect -- the problem is that it's too expensive. At 4 cost with Secrecy 3 it would've been a good card.

Okay, the article is updated.:) All the new adjustments are properly highlighted.

The Háma -lock was a very powerful combo in the game, but honestly I do not see it any more gamebreaking than tanking with Frodo or Forest Snare. In one case you need to pay a card and a resource every round to stop an enemy from attacking, in the next you need to reduce your threat sooner or later and in the last you need to pay a card and three resources once. And especially in Shadow and Flame Frodo is very abusable against Durin's Bane. The other cards at least require the enemy to not be immune to player card effects or attachments.
As far as his stats go, he is a decent attacker, but nothing special: no ranged or readying, just the ability to pull back tactics events. Yet it is probably one of the most unthematic abilities in the game. Háma is the door-warden of Théoden, not an attacker who chooses the same tactic on every occasion.
Gwaihir's Debt is a powerful candidate for this ability, but so many cycles later, that I do not think, Caleb had it in mind when errataing Háma. The Eagles are Coming, Hands Upon the Bow and Foe-hammer are more likely candidates in my opinion.

Erestor gives two willpower, three hitpoints and a card filtering ability for three resources. Two willpower cost about three resources at that point in the game for most allies, notable exceptions are Escort from Edoras (one-time only), West-road Traveller (only one hitpoint) and Arwen (crazy overpowered anyway). If you need a way to make superfluous unique cards useful without resorting to Éowyn, Erestor can let you find your needed cards faster. I do not think, that he needs the Star-gazer to be effective, he is just here to filter your deck while providing questing power and a decent pool of hitpoints.

I do not use Fresh Tracks often, only in direct damage decks, where every bit helps to kill an enemy without engaging it. But otherwise I do not see much use in delaying engagement for a turn. The enemy will still be there next round, I need to quest over it and eventually deal with it anyway and in the meantime there might have been another enemy revealed from the encounter deck, so I better kill it now than later. And if for some reason I do not want to defend it, I would rather use Feint to kill it afterwards.

The first erratum on Erebor Battle-master is fine, otherwise you would get a permanent 4+ attack ally in a dwarf deck for only three resources without any further investment. No other card would be this strong. With the change from characters to allies, you at least need some dwarf allies for him to be worth it. The second erratum? Whatever. Whether you overkill your enemy by 1 or by 15 does not matter much: dead is dead. There might be cases where this makes a difference, but most of the time, you will not need so much attack.

Ring Mail is not used often by me, though it can come in handy. Frodo and Bilbo can both use it, the younger Hobbit wants extra defence, so you do not have to increase your threat as much, and the stats of the older one are best used in defending smaller enemies. With this attachment and A Burning Brand, Bilbo becomes 3/3 heroes and can cancel a shadow effect, which is enough to defend the weaker enemies in the game without trouble. Less damage taken means less need for healing or chumping. For Dáin Ironfoot I prefer Dúnedain Warnings, as they are in-sphere, cheaper and not restricted. I usually use Bifur in the midgame to defend as well, when willpower is covered by my allies, so he is in that regard similar to Bilbo: His extra hitpoint is offset by not being eligible for A Fast Hitch.

Out of Sight is another one of these secrecy cards, that are useless at that point in the game, as I have already pointed out in the last few reviews.

In the right quest and right deck, Ever my Heart Rises is a great card, as it will frequently provide you two points of willpower and one point of threat reduction. If you happen to have a dwarf hero with decent willpower (or questing ability) and combat stats like Gimli, Thalin or later Thorin Oakenshield in a quest with lots of Underground or Mountain locations, put this card in, otherwise leave it out.

The Warden of Healing is the most powerful healer in the whole game. As many other healing effects, he allows you to heal two points of damage, though he has to spread his healing on two characters, if you want to heal more than just one point of damage. Elrond from the next adventure pack will double his efficiency and with his built-in readying effect he can easily clean the board of damage tokens, provided you can pay for it.

Most decks already use three copies of Gandalf, so if you have access to Lore, Word of Command can be a good addition to your deck. Between Gandalf readying and leaving play, he can search for any card in your deck for the cost of a single lore resource. So if you rely on a certain key card, have access to Lore and Gandalf, then consider using him to find what you need. It is a very strong card, but I usually come by without it, because Gandalf is rarely in play, very expensive to get out and the pack after next gives you a permanent, yet slower solution to find important attachments in your deck and thus increasing the chance to draw events and allies: The Master of the Forge. Especially with the Imladris Star-gazer from the next pack, it is very easy to find whatever cards you need in a short manner.

Love of Tales basically makes your songs free, if you do not play more than one per round. I usually play one song for my weaker sphere or to enable potent cards like A Burning Brand, so the amount of song cards played in my games is very limited. The more spheres your deck has, the more difficult it will be to play and if you have to rely on songs to be able to play or afford these cards in the first place, you most likely will be losing the game anyway. The only real reason to include this card is to help buffing Fireside Song, but this will have to wait for a very long time.

The best card is of course Warden of Healing: cheap, flexible and reliable healing that can be doubled with Elrond on the table. The healing can even be repeated, though it will no longer be cheap then. I am even convinced, this guy is the reason, Archery appears in the next cycle.

The worst card is Out of Sight: Secrecy still sucks and so does this card. And when Secrecy will work and wants to engage an enemy, I usually have access to tactics via Merry or Tom Cotten, so Feint is the cheaper option. The only plus is, that it cancels all attacks from engaged enemies against you.

I had to think for a while to figure out what the most enriched sphere is: Of course Warden of Healing is one of the best cards overall and Word of Command is a very potent search effect for the full deck. But healing and card draw is nothing exciting in Lore. On the other hand we have Leadership with Erestor and Fresh Tracks. While card draw is not uncommon in Leadership with Valiant Sacrifice, Campfire Tales and, erm, Taking Initiative, direct damage is more rare: The Longbeard Orc-slayer is too expensive for my taste and Taking Initiative is again just bad.
With that being said: Healing in Lore went from good to great and card draw improved somewhat, whereas in Leadership direct damage has appeared in a manageable and affordable way and card filtering is something entirely new. And even though the Warden is the best card, I think, that Leadership has gotten more out of this adventure pack.

It occurs to me that I've been underrating Fresh Tracks in a solo deck. It's true that putting off an enemy one turn ordinarily doesn't do much for you, especially when it has to stay in staging -- but putting it off for a turn can be huge *if you have no defenders*. With Fresh Tracks in hand, no enemies engaged and no enemies that will engage in staging, you can send *everyone* questing as long as there's no enemy surgers that will kill you in the deck. And if you get a location or treachery, you can do it again the next turn. Preventing *all* enemies from engaging sounds way more useful than preventing *one* enemy from engaging, but it's not uncommon in one-deck play for those two things to be one and the same.

16 hours ago, dalestephenson said:

It occurs to me that I've been underrating Fresh Tracks in a solo deck. It's true that putting off an enemy one turn ordinarily doesn't do much for you, especially when it has to stay in staging -- but putting it off for a turn can be huge *if you have no defenders*. With Fresh Tracks in hand, no enemies engaged and no enemies that will engage in staging, you can send *everyone* questing as long as there's no enemy surgers that will kill you in the deck. And if you get a location or treachery, you can do it again the next turn. Preventing *all* enemies from engaging sounds way more useful than preventing *one* enemy from engaging, but it's not uncommon in one-deck play for those two things to be one and the same.

For example, I use Fresh Tracks exclusively with Thalin (and Gondorian Spearman / Hail of Stones etc.), due to dealing more damage. As for the effect of keeping enemy in the staging area - the best use I consider it during early stage, when you just need build your army and you can't afford to face some enemy. OR (and that could used to be the most cases), you quest with characters, who also excel in combat ( Gimli, SpGlorfindel, LorAragorn, Elrond etc.). Now you reveal more enemies or some stronger enemy that you just can't face now - you lack proper defender/attacker. So you play Fresh Tracks, let him in the staging area, and in the next round you can deal with him.

@Amicus Draconis
Tbh, I see unlimited Háma's ability as quite… broken. Repetitive restoring of Feint and Thicket of Spears makes from you invincible player.

To Fresh Tracks , read my answer above to dále. It gives you very nice advantage, which doesn't force you anything, you can only profit.

Agree with Erebor Battle Master - it actually doesn't matter, if you attack for 5 or 10. 5 WHen you have such attack, you already have your game under the control, at least from the view of combat. Or can even happen, that you control 5Attack Erebor Battle Master (with 4 other Dwarf allies) and you still haven't the situation under your control. I guess it's very improbably.

Also agree without any comment to Ring Mail and Out of Sight . I'm glad I'm not only one, who fully respect the strength of Ring Mail, but actually… there are not too much Dwarves , who could use it, except for Dáin Ironfoot and Bifur .

It sufficed when I was corrected about that Warden of Healing gets ready during Refresh phase. His usefulness then totally changed for me.

Surprised, that you rarely play with Gandalf . In my games, Gandalf is used each time used at least once, because he alone influences the progress of the whole game. Though he is quite expensive, but 5 cost for his services worth it.

Originally, I was deciding between Tactic and Leadership sphere. In Leadership I really like Fresh Tracks and Erestor also offers quite useful ability. But after update, Warden of Healing, able to heal each turn (and even more times within the same turn), and Word of Command, which can be used on Gandalf-ally at the end of Refresh phase (so you won't waste his stats), I didn't doubt about Lore as the MOST ENRICHED SPHERE.

Fresh Tracks is great with Leadership Eomer. It ensures that he will get to attack an enemy in the staging area even if its engagement cost is lower than your threat. Plus, that 1 damage will help to ensure Eomer defeats it if he is not built up yet.

@Silblade Oh, I did not mean, that I rarely play with Gandalf, in fact I put him in nearly all my decks. I wanted to say, that due to his forced effect, he leaves play at the end of the round and thus is not permanent.

20 hours ago, Amicus Draconis said:

The Háma -lock was a very powerful combo in the game, but honestly I do not see it any more gamebreaking than tanking with Frodo or Forest Snare. In one case you need to pay a card and a resource every round to stop an enemy from attacking, in the next you need to reduce your threat sooner or later and in the last you need to pay a card and three resources once. And especially in Shadow and Flame Frodo is very abusable against Durin's Bane. The other cards at least require the enemy to not be immune to player card effects or attachments.
As far as his stats go, he is a decent attacker, but nothing special: no ranged or readying, just the ability to pull back tactics events. Yet it is probably one of the most unthematic abilities in the game. Háma is the door-warden of Théoden, not an attacker who chooses the same tactic on every occasion.
Gwaihir's Debt is a powerful candidate for this ability, but so many cycles later, that I do not think, Caleb had it in mind when errataing Háma. The Eagles are Coming, Hands Upon the Bow and Foe-hammer are more likely candidates in my opinion.

Here's the timeline:

20 April 2011 -- Core set released, includes Feint and Thicket of Spears

July 2011 -- Hunt for Gollum released, includes The Eagles are Coming

May 2012 -- Long Dark released, includes Hama

August 2012 -- Shadow and Flame released. Includes Hands Upon the Bow, and Hama-lock instantly becomes a favored solution to the Balrog

August 2012 -- OHUH released, includes Foe-Hammer

27 Feb 2013 -- date on FAQ including errata to Feint/Thicket, making it so they only prevent attacks against one player. This directly prevents Hama-lock from nerfing Durin's Bane for all players, but still allows Durin's Bane to be locked down for solo players.

October 2013 -- Blood of Gondor released, includes Hammer-Stroke

October 2014 -- Nin-in-Eleph released, includes Mablung

April 2015 -- Lost Realm released, includes Halbarad and TaAragorn

Feb 2017 -- Mumakil released, includes Wait No Longer

15 Nov 2017 -- FAQ including Hama errata announced. Caleb blamed the errata on a single card, Thicket of Spears:

"Fourth, Háma (The Long Dark, 76). This was a tough one because there wasn’t an easy fix, but ultimately, we decided that it wasn’t good for the game if a single player could engage every enemy in play and recur Thicket of Spears (Core Set, 36) each turn to completely negate the combat phase. We added a limit of “three times per game.” Players can still use Háma the way he was intended, but they cannot recur the same card infinitely."

June 2019 -- Fate of Wilderland released, includes Gwaihir's Debt

The deluxe for Ered Mithrin cycle was released June 2018, so I regard it as highly probable that the entire cycle was being developed and tested as of November 2017, eight months earlier. But I could be wrong. In any case, Gwaihir's Debt is IMO the most powerful Tactics event released after Hama was limited to 3 recurrences per game.

If we take Caleb at his word, it was a single player monopolizing combat that motivated the errata, even though that could've been solved *much* easier simply by errata to Thicket of Spears (remove from game). Even with the Hama errata, Hama + 3x copies + 3x Records allows you to play any tactics event nine consecutive times, and any event so powerful that Hama shouldn't be allowed to play it every turn shouldn't have 9 consecutive plays allowed either.

And the pieces that prompted the errata had been around a long time -- Thicket is a core card, after all. Mablung makes playing thicket each turn affordable, Hammer-Stroke makes stealing all the enemies possible, Halbarad/TaAragorn make engaging all the enemies practical. I'm not sure when such decks were first used, asssuming they were ever actually used and not just proof-of-concept. The oldest Thicket/Hama deck at ringsdb without TaBeregond is Beorn's "Ride them Down", which was previously published at Hall of Beorn in May 2014, using Hama/Thicket/Hammer-Stroke/Foe-Hammer. Some Sort's "Come at me Bro" from April 2016 uses the Hama/Mablung/TaAragorn lineup and is the oldest deck I'm aware of explicitly designed to monopolize combat by routinely engaging *everything* and playing Thicket each turn.

I don't believe that recurrence of Eagles are Coming, Foe-Hammer, and Hands Upon the Bow were motivating factors for Caleb for several reasons. First, because those combos have been around as long or nearly as long as Hama themselves. Second, because Caleb doesn't mention them while specifically calling out Thicket. Third, because I don't think recurring any of those, at the cost of a card, is actually overpowered. There are allies that repeatedly search the top five cards already (Bofur, Master of the Forge), there are heroes that can already attack staging each turn (Dunhere, Haldir, LeEomer), and there are *tons* of cards that can provide repeatable card draw.

But I don't completely believe that Caleb's statement provides his complete motivation, considering that his errata didn't take the course of errata-ing the supposedly offensive card (easier, simpler, way less intrusive, prevents other ways of recurrence), and because his stated "used the way original intended" is wrong on its face. The original Hama could recur any old Tactics event, no matter how weak, as long as you liked it better than a card in your hand. Limiting Hama to recurring *each card title* three times would prevented indefinite recurrence, but limiting Hama to three total recurrences ensures that he is *only* used to recur the most powerful events.

Not listed in the timeline is the rise of Noldor decks, which doesn't help Hama play Thicket of Spears but *does* give him a lot of attractive cards to toss in the discard in mixed-sphere decks.

Well, if one player decides to spend all three resources and the card draw of a given round to play Thicket of Spears, they are severely limiting themselves, as without any other draw and resource acceleration they are not going to play anything else.

And while Bofur and Master of the Forge can search the top five card every round, they can at most find one card, as long as you do not find a way to ready them. The Eagles are Coming can hit up to five targets and can be played several times a round, depening on how often Hama can attack. It is far easier to ready and declare him as an attacker than ready allies.

Hands upon the Bow has the benefit of instantly sniping an enemy before quest resolution. Haldir can only attack in the combat phase provided he did not engage an enemy this round and Éomer can only attack directly after comitting to the quest, when enemies are least likely to be in staging. And while Quick Strike and Dunhere would work, there is no sphere match and the native attack value is 3 while most ranged heroes can attack for 4 with Hands upon the Bow.

Of course I do not know, what Caleb had in mind, but I think this game has more pressing matters than preventing enemies from attacking with an expensive combo, which uses the total natural income of a round. With lots of sentinel and ranged characters a player is already able to dominate the combat phase and while it is more difficult, it is also more interesting.

Yes, without draw and resource acceleration (Mablung provides the latter and with TaAragorn can generate two extra resources in concert) the Thicket deck has its hand full playing Thicket. But that's enough for it to monopolize combat in a multi-player environment and nerf all the enemies by not allowing them to attack -- I can understand the viewpoint that it is a problem worthy of fixing, just disagree with the method of fixing it -- having Thicket remove itself, like Will of the West does, stops it cold without harming Hama's "normal" use, since the vast majority of Hama decks were not devoted to endless replaying Thicket. Even if you think it wasn't worth fixing, that's the specific problem that Caleb called out, and it obviously has the potential to monopolize multiplayer combat.

Recurring The Eagles are Coming endlessly isn't going to lockdown combat, and doesn't change how expensive Eagles were to run (nor does it collect arguably the most powerful Eagle card, Support of the Eagle). While it *can* pull in multiple cards, as it's replayed it's ever more likely to miss, and each time it's played it reduces its hand size by one -- Bofur and Master of the Forge don't do that.

I guess I can't see recurring tEaC as a big problem because I don't see having a hand full of Eagles as a problem needing fixing in the first place. I wouldn't even see recurring Entmoot as an issue, and Ents are way more cost-effective than Eagles.

It's absolutely true that Hands on the Bow lets you nuke a newly revealed enemy, and Dunhere or Great Yew Bow or Haldir can't do that, while LeEomer can only do it with help from Late Adventurer or Grappling Hook, which aren't repeatable. But it's also more expensive, taking a resource and a card -- and getting it back with Hama requires an attack, so you also have to get Hama ranged so that *he* can do Hands on the Bow. So we've got both a combo set up and sacrificing your card draw and a resource every turn for Hama to attack *one* enemy -- this isn't exactly lock combat down in multiplayer stuff. If you want to kill one weaker enemy per turn in a multiplayer environment, I think you'd get more bang for your buck with Thalin/TaBilbo/Argalad, all you need is Hobbit Pony for Bilbo and a weapon for Argalad to take out 3 hp enemies after reveal.

Recurring Foe-hammer lets you draw three cards -- but it also cost two cards, the card you tossed and Foe-hammer itself. So the net gain is one card when you destroy an enemy, with ally Legolas provides by himself without being remotely broken; just MotK Legolas and you're better off than Hama exploiting this card after he can get a weapon and Foe-Hammer together. And then there's all the characters who enable card draw *without* having to destroy an enemy and exhaust a weapon first.

I don't think any of these compare in utility to Hama-lock against a unique boss; but the first errata at least showed that Nate did not see that as an issue that needed fixed. I think Caleb's "should fix this" threshold may be a lot lower. (The recent stealth erratas that don't fix *any* broken decks are evidence of that.)

Admittedly, I mostly play 2-player games, so my experience with 4 players is limited. But in the games I play, combat is very well manageable without Thicket. And hopefully the player engaging everything plays Dúnedain or the group keeps on killing the enemies, otherwise you will reveal more treacheries which have the inclination to hurt everyone instead of only one player like enemies do.

Yes, Eagles are costly, but Mablung, Hirgon or Radagast with his staff will help you play them. You mention Mablung as a way to help pay for Thicket, but when discussing TEaC you just dismiss them as expensive. Yes, Bofur and Master of the Forge do not reduce hand size, but in comparison to TEaC they cost at least two resources and will not help you in combat. And even if it cannot pull out Support of the Eagles, TEaC will increase the chance to draw it normally.

You mention that Hands upon the Bow costs you a resource every round, yet you also do not like TEaC or Foe-hammer, which are free. What else would be free? I will not need Sterner than Steel, if I can kill an enemy before it attacks (provided it is not immune). And while it is free, in turn I have to pay for a defender with a weapon or amour and 1 or 2 extra questers. There are not many enemies with 0 defence, so the use of Straight Shot is limited. Goblin Cleaver is in essence +2 (3) damage for Háma, as both cards most likely target the same enemy, but again there is the need for an extra defender and willpower. Reckless Attack will hand out lots of doomed while not every one will be engaged with an enemy. Flight of the Eagles cannot be used, Valour of the North is situational. Proud Hunters would work and even generate a lot of resources but Háma is neither Noble nor a Ranger, so you need to pick your other heros accordingly. If I am in a position to use Last Stand repeatedly, I am either a troll or already winning. Persuing the Enemy would take several rounds to kill some enemies and in this timeframe I am already dead if I cannot deal with them in another way, in which case I do not need the card in the first place. The Wizard's Voice and Close Call both increase my threat by a lot while only being useful in emergencies. Gondorian Discipline is another emergency card and I most likely would not have needed it, if I had killed the enemy in the first place. Unseen Strike and Khâzad! Khâzad! give a better damage boost then HutB but again require a defender and extra willpower. Meneldor's Flight is a joke and Stand Together again requires more characters.

In a multiplayer environment I am very likely able to attack someone with Háma to not require ranged on him, so someone else can use Hands upon the Bow. Thalin, Bilbo and Argalad can kill 3 (or 4) hp enemies from turn one but that will not change over the course of the game, while questing for 2 plus some extra for Bilbo. But even if I put ranged and two Spears of the Mark on Háma, he can eventually attack for 8 (and more with Dúnedain Marks), which will increase the possibilities of killing enemies in staging and there are some heroes who can quest for the above number on their own like Círdan and Éowyn freeing up the spot for yet another hero.

The net gain for Foe-hammer is two cards, as you replace the discarded card with it. Legolas actually needs to kill an enemy to draw one card, while Háma requires an attack, a weapon and Foe-hammer to effectively draw two cards. So no, Legalos is not better, just different. Yes, there are characters who can draw cards without killing, but Bofur is the only one in tactics (even though he technically does not draw) and as I just established, he is slower while being susceptible to whiffing. And I do not kill enemies just to play Foe-hammer: I see it as a bonus for something I have to do anyway. And while you are complaining, that you need to discard something for Háma, you surely know, that Daeron's Runes also requires a discard, effectively gaining you zero cards. And yet you praise this card repeatedly.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that tEAC and Foe-Hammer and Hands Upon the Bow are bad cards. They're great cards! They are in fact exactly the sort of cards that I think Hama's recurrence was "orginally intended" to recur (especially tEAC, since at the time of Hama's release Eagles was one of the only archtypes in the game). What they are not are *overpowered* cards, the kind that would justify errata from playing every turn. In each case (deck search, card draw, attacking staging) there's multiple cards that are *designed* to recur those effects; and even if the events are stronger than the repeatable ally/hero effects, they *should* be stronger because they're events. If Hama can't recur an event that's even *marginally* better that an ally/hero effect, his hero ability is worthless. And great as these cards are, using Hama's ability to recur one of them exactly three times strikes me as not a very useful ability. Repeating Gwaihir's Debt three times -- or for that matter, Thicket of Spears three times -- is a much stronger effect.

I think the objection to recurring Thicket of Spears repeatedly is less that Thicket is *needed* to keep combat controlled, and more that Thicket has the potential for a deck to eliminate combat as a factor completely in a multiplayer environment -- and IMO pickup multiplayer is the ONLY environment that justifies nerfs preventing "broken" decks in a cooperative game. This is no small thing! The original errata to Feint and Thicket after Hama was first released was precisely (IMO) because they allowed Hama to nerf combat for *other* players, and deck like Some Sort's can do exactly that. Some Sort's deck would certainly be killing enemies, not only because Hama's ability requires attacking but because TaAragorn's ability requires killing to steal enemies from staging or other players.

Mablung, Hirgon, and Radagast have done a ton to make Eagles more affordable, but Radagast also can provide card draw via Ravens. Eagles got a lot better in Ered Mithrin, and it will even be better by the end of the current cycle. But Eagles needed the help, because they were one of the weakest archtypes. Even if you play tEAC every turn, at the cost of your card draw, I don't think an Eagles deck is going to lock down combat the way a Thicket deck can. Those Eagles still have to defend attacks, with all the risks that comes with that, and Eagles still will provide limited sentinel/ranged support and no way to steal enemies from other players.

Recurring Hands Upon the Bow every turn once Hama is ranged (and buffed), is indeed a powerful effect, but it still costs you Hama's resource and your one card that you draw every turn. I'm not saying that cost isn't worth it, I'm saying it's not remotely overpowered enough to justify errata -- it takes setup to turn Hama into an enemy-eliminating sniper, and even when finished it takes out *one* enemy per turn. Yes, you can pair Hama with a ranged hero to make the combo fire sooner, but if you're recurring anything with Hama that means Hama is attacking, and absent Feint/Thicket/Eorl or Hama being the ranged Hands player, that means that the enemy *is* attacking and combat has not been nerfed. The enemy still gets its chance to shine.

You're right, the replacement makes Foe-hammer a net two card draw. Yes, that's a good thing, but I don't see it as an overpowered thing considering it takes setup (weapon required) and enemy destruction (combat required). Slap a readying effect on Beravor and she can do the same thing without needing an enemy to destroy -- it's not remotely game-breaking.

I praise Daeron's Runes because it's useful in *any* Lore deck. Foe-Hammer is only useful in enemy-destroying decks with weapons -- this is a LOT of tactics decks, but it's not 100% like DR with Lore. But it either case, its utility is fantastic for a free card, not for a limited-per-game hero ability. Being able to recur Foe-Hammer three times during a game isn't a reason to play Hama, it's a reason to find a better hero than Hama. That's the problem with the Hama nerf. If unlimited recurring Foe-Hammer is more cost-effective than playing Legolas or raising your threat with Steward of Orthanc or mixing with another sphere that actually has more card draw effects -- well, it *should* be better, or Hama's hero ability isn't strong enough to justify playing him in the first place.

Now imagine that Hama was able to recur Gwaihir's Debt every turn, with the Radagast/Wizard Pipe combo. That can not only draw four cards instead of three, you get a full round of Gandalf to go with it. Now *that's* strong, even though it costs a resource instead of free. Strong enough to justify errata? Maybe. It takes some setup, and my experience with Playing Gandalf Every Turn in a multiplayer environment (2-player Dori fellowship) is that it's cool, but not remotely game-breaking. It certainly doesn't monopolize combat like the Thicket deck can.

I'll give you the point that Gwaihir's Debt is a strong card and recurring it is even stronger, but that is more due to the effect, that Gandalf's response triggers when entering play instead of being played from hand which would be appropriate for that cost, similar to Kili, Fili or Galadriel.

I had a quick look at Some Sort's deck and in the description it says: "Sometimes in 4-player it can't keep up with the incoming stream of enemies, but it still works for solving 75% of the combat in the game, even if it can't quite get to 100%." This does not quite sound like monopolizing combat. After all you need a lot of tools to engage extra enemies, which cost resources and this deck has only 2 resources per round to spare, if Aragorn manages to kill someone. And cards like Southron Support really screw you up.

But another thought occurred to me regarding Durin's Bane. Even though Feint was errataed to no longer work for every player, The Wizard's Voice still does, and with a starting threat of 0, increasing threat because of doomed hardly matters, especially if the Balrog cannot attack. This can to an extent be applied to many quests.

I have seen broken multiplayer decks like Vilya and Outlands, and these are not nerfed and probably never will be. Should they not also be errataed?

Well, Feint, Thicket, Eorl or even Quick Strike are all events and no permanent solution for a non ranged Háma, but Forest Snare sure is (it does not need to be in Háma's deck). And for pre-errata Háma your card draw and readying effects are the limit, how often you can snipe with him. I am not sure, whether he can immediately recur HutB but a second copy will do the trick.

I am not sure, whether I understand your section about Daeron's Runes. You wrote "If unlimited recurring Foe-Hammer is more cost-effective than playing Legolas or raising your threat with Steward of Orthanc or mixing with another sphere that actually has more card draw effects -- well, it *should* be better, or Hama's hero ability isn't strong enough to justify playing him in the first place." Drawing 3 or more cards per round is better than 1, or am I missing something?

As I wrote in the beginning, Gwaihir's Debt is strong, but that is more the property of Gandalf than of the event. But I can imagine, he will not be errataed because of the classic Sneak Attack combo. But then, why should Leadership of all spheres (in the core set) be able to cheat in Gandalf, while every other has to play him normally? I do not mind having his stats temporarily in play, but the response is just too strong for the cost of a single resource and an extra card, when you get this beefy ally on top.

You make a good point about Wizard's Voice, especially with Durin's Bane in particular. At the time the card was published Feint/Thicket had already been errata-ed, and it is a tactics event, so they should've known it could've been Hama-ized for S&F. Perhaps they figured that stopping one non-immune boss for Doomed 3 was a higher cost than stopping him for 1 resource (original Feint)? However, aside from Shadow & Flame I think all the non-immune, engaged with each player bosses start threat at normal levels, so can't take Wizard's Voice as long (though Saruman's Staff would help), Looking at Hall of Beorn, I think this is the list of can't-leave-staging bosses:

Durin's Bane (Shadow & Flame)

Bolg (On the Doorstep), immune

Watcher in the Water (Road Darkens), immune

Dagnir (Fire in the Night), immune

Dagnir (Mount Gundabad), immune

City Guard (City of Ulfast), immune

Wainrider Champion (Challenge of the Wainriders), immune

Did I miss anyone? It looks to me like the Feint errata is largely a Durin's Bane errata, and later bosses were "fixed" by the simple and easy expedient of making the boss immune.

It's true that Some Sort claims his deck only covers 75% in 4-player, but he says it can reliably get them all in two-player. His is the oldest deck, but looking at the Hama/Thicket decks the most common lineup for multiplayer is Amarthiul/Hama/Mablung, as a Thicket deck can give Amarthiul an extra resource every turn whether Mablung is firing or not. Still, looking back and reading through the errata discussion at the time, several people made the point that Thicket decks weren't really that powerful, and at 4+ player there were other decks that "locked down combat" more completely than Thicket did. Rouxxor had already transitioned his multplayer Thicket deck to play Wait No Longer most often. Still, the point is that *Caleb* claimed that Hama/Thicket could allow "a single player to engage every enemy" and "completely negate the combat phase", and used that to justify the errata to Hama. Assuming he's sincere , he believed that could be done and that the problem was severe enough to warrant errata. If it were true, it arguably *would* justify errata -- to Thicket, not Hama. Recurring Feint, or tEAC, or Foe-Hammer, or even Hands Upon the Bow doesn't do that.

Should Vilya and Outlands be errata-ed? I certainly hope not. I'll buy that powerful multiplayer versions of those archtypes exist, but not that they are "broken".

Yes, Drawing three cards per turn (playing Foe-Hammer every turn with Hama for net-two increase over the default one) is better than drawing two cards per turn (using Legolas to kill a foe per turn). But neither is broken, and ease of setup means that MotK Legolas is stronger than pre-errata Hama repeating Foe Hammer, IMO. My point was that if Hama's recurrence of a given event *isn't* slightly stronger than a recurring ally ability, it's not a very good event. The fact that weaker versions exist already recur in ally form (or in other heroes without Hama's cost or card or attack requirements) is proof to me that the effect *isn't* strong enough to justify errata.

But IMO, in the past few years we've seen a lot of errata that wasn't justified. To me, the *only* reason to issue negative errata for non-recent player cards is if it is an essential part of a combo that can generate effectively infinite cards, resources, willpower, and/or attack in a pickup multiplayer game -- and even then, the errata should target the least popular card involved and strive mightily to interfere with the "common case" as little as possible. Errata-ing the keystone cards of popular archtypes for subjectively being too strong is the worst possible kind of errata in my opinion.

(Note -- I have no problem with fan-made variants trying to tone down cards perceived as too powerful because they are explicitly variants and will affect only those players who choose to play with those limitations. Official errata affects both those wishing to play "by the rules" and those who purchase reprints of the errata-ed cards).

All this is a little far afield from Long Dark cards, but was inevitable in a discussion of Hama. Hama is not now the hero he once was, and that makes a huge difference to his evaluation.

There are other immune, cannot leave staging bosses, but they are only considered to be engaged with the first player, so I guess, that is all of them.

I would not use the net draw of Foe-hammer to compare with Legolas. Sure, you have to discard two cards, but when drawing five cards, you have more options and you can just discard, what is least useful now. That way, you get faster through your deck, as long as your combo is ready. Beravor has been errataed because she could draw too many cards and while doing so, she could not kill an enemy as opposed to Háma.

You are right, this discussion has led a long way from the Long Dark. But it was insightful nontheless.

On 3/26/2020 at 11:20 AM, Felswrath said:

Fresh Tracks is great with Leadership Eomer. It ensures that he will get to attack an enemy in the staging area even if its engagement cost is lower than your threat. Plus, that 1 damage will help to ensure Eomer defeats it if he is not built up yet.

Yes I usually run 3 of these with Eomer too! Its great for him, same as late adventurer