Ok, I would like to have a Request For Comments (RFC) from the community on this.

I recently had gotten the C-ROC cruiser model and would like to come up with ways in game on converting the C-ROC into a pocket carrier. The idea is to have it be able to carry and support two to four Sheathipede class shuttles on top and a few modified Vulture Droids on the bottom. It's role is to act as an escort and troop transport for convoys.

I figure that I would need to set aside Hard Points, Encumbrance, and credits for the modifications. However, from the GM and player perspectives, how would you build a C-Roc cruiser/pocket carrier?

I will post my math on here in the a reply in case someone wants to review it.

The Math and Build Post

The placeholder for the math and build to be displayed as the topic goes.

the main problem I see is the C-roc is to small to carry all that much and add in you cant really move pilots in and out of any of the ships unless you plain droid brains only

Steal a quasar, there is plenty of them and used by many many factions.

2 hours ago, Samuel Richard said:

Steal a quasar, there is plenty of them and used by many many factions.

Not everyone has the personnel to crew something like that.

14 hours ago, Oldmike1 said:

the main problem I see is the C-roc is to small to carry all that much and add in you cant really move pilots in and out of any of the ships unless you plain droid brains only

The idea is that the C-ROC would be a patrol carrier. I figure it would require replacing the cargo system on top with the airlocks and connections needed for the shuttles.

In regards to the shuttles, I am going for the Phantom Mod, as it looks cool and also provides some much needed tech support.

10 hours ago, Samuel Richard said:

Steal a quasar, there is plenty of them and used by many many factions.

8 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

Not everyone has the personnel to crew something like that.

This is the biggest reason. As a GM, I am willing to help a group out. As a player, I like the idea of my character creating a small, elite force used to deploy troops to hostile zones.

Few Ideas:

Either integrate multiple Retrofitted Hangar Modules (I'm not quite sure if this is possible by RAW though).

Or just go the non-RAW way; I feel the C-Roc is large enough to undergo a minor Refit: Remove the Ventral Cargobay Doors / Cargo-Lift and exchange them for Hangarbay Doors / Hangar Shielding.
Then convert most of the Cargo-Space to a Hangar (reducing Hardpoints for Fueling and Repair Facilities).

Alternatively, make it a slightly larger Refit and add the Hangar Bay Doors on the sides to keep the functionality seen in the Gozanti Cruiser used by the Empire to dock multiple ships on the ventral side.

From the Lore perspective and from looking at the Ship in Artwork, the C-Roc is large enough to atleast a few small Ships for a Player Group.
C-ROC with Skyk Fighter Artwork

Looking at the Artwork, I could even imagine the C-ROC sporting some Starfighter catapults or something on top of the "wings" (where the cargo containers are in the artwork) 😎
The more I think of this, the more I want some of my Rivals in my Campaign to have this xD

Atleast that's how I'd handle it.
Hope this helps a bit

I think you should probably base this off of the Imperial Freighter version of the Gozanti rather than the C-ROC. It carries four fighters but gives up quite a bit to do so. The C-ROC is rather optimized, and throwing that much extra into/onto it needs to have some real costs in performance. You could still have it cosmetically resemble the C-ROC while using the game stats for the the Imperial Freighter.

Doing this, it might be reasonable to have 2 Sheathipede (4 would be too many, IMO) resting atop the wings and 4-6 Vulture droids hanging from the ventral surface.

5 hours ago, Fl1nt said:

Either integrate multiple Retrofitted Hangar Modules (I'm not quite sure if this is possible by RAW though

It is not possible by RAW. RAW does not allow multiples of the same attachment with the sole exception of additional weapon mounts.

4 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

It is not possible by RAW. RAW does not allow multiples of the same attachment with the sole exception of additional weapon mounts.

also with Retrofitted Hangar its fine for the fighters but shuttles are to big for that if your GM lets the PCs lets you be docked outside that's up to them mine will not let us have any docking if we are doing any thing more then just sitting in space

I think this is rather easy. The first problem is too many get hung up on the difference between a docking clamp and a hanger bay. A hanger allows full access for repair and work while a docking clamp just allows internal transfer. Any repairs or work on a Sheathipede would have to be done as EVA.

So all you have to do is modify the C-Roc so that the four Sheathipede's dock at custom docking clamps place where you normally see cargo containers at the side of the ship. Since the Sheathipedes load from the back they would be ready to go for combat launches. Recovery would be a little more difficult and involved in a combat situation though. The vulture droids could be mounted on custom clamps as well. But for ease of use you could add the custom docking bay attachment to support easier launch and recover the vultures during actual combat.

is there a docking clamp Mod I have missed?

20 hours ago, Fl1nt said:

Few Ideas:

Either integrate multiple Retrofitted Hangar Modules (I'm not quite sure if this is possible by RAW though).

Or just go the non-RAW way; I feel the C-Roc is large enough to undergo a minor Refit: Remove the Ventral Cargobay Doors / Cargo-Lift and exchange them for Hangarbay Doors / Hangar Shielding.
Then convert most of the Cargo-Space to a Hangar (reducing Hardpoints for Fueling and Repair Facilities).

Alternatively, make it a slightly larger Refit and add the Hangar Bay Doors on the sides to keep the functionality seen in the Gozanti Cruiser used by the Empire to dock multiple ships on the ventral side.

From the Lore perspective and from looking at the Ship in Artwork, the C-Roc is large enough to atleast a few small Ships for a Player Group.
C-ROC with Skyk Fighter Artwork

Looking at the Artwork, I could even imagine the C-ROC sporting some Starfighter catapults or something on top of the "wings" (where the cargo containers are in the artwork) 😎
The more I think of this, the more I want some of my Rivals in my Campaign to have this xD

Atleast that's how I'd handle it.
Hope this helps a bit

Every little bit helps

The Hangar mod is a bit extreme and doesn't fit the vision I have for the carrier. If anything, it would be the same system used by the Ghost for the Phantom I and Phantom II .

If anything, it would be a modification to the cargo doors as well as possibly bulking up the wings to accomodate the extra weight.

14 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

I think you should probably base this off of the Imperial Freighter version of the Gozanti rather than the C-ROC. It carries four fighters but gives up quite a bit to do so. The C-ROC is rather optimized, and throwing that much extra into/onto it needs to have some real costs in performance. You could still have it cosmetically resemble the C-ROC while using the game stats for the the Imperial Freighter.

Doing this, it might be reasonable to have 2 Sheathipede (4 would be too many, IMO) resting atop the wings and 4-6 Vulture droids hanging from the ventral surface.

Honestly, I wanted to use C-ROC because I just gotten my hands on the model.

As for the RPG side, Imperial version is decidedly more noticeable and recognized as an Imperial version. Plus, the docking system used by the Imperial version is used for the TIE based ships. That is not needed for the Vulture droids and represents some issues for the Shuttles.

14 hours ago, HappyDaze said:

It is not possible by RAW. RAW does not allow multiples of the same attachment with the sole exception of additional weapon mounts.

I just looked at the rules for mods. There can be multiples of the same attachment, but it will have to change something else and doesn't stack unless otherwise stated.

9 hours ago, Oldmike1 said:

also with Retrofitted Hangar its fine for the fighters but shuttles are to big for that if your GM lets the PCs lets you be docked outside that's up to them mine will not let us have any docking if we are doing any thing more then just sitting in space

What does your GM have against docking ships?

9 hours ago, Ahrimon said:

I think this is rather easy. The first problem is too many get hung up on the difference between a docking clamp and a hanger bay. A hanger allows full access for repair and work while a docking clamp just allows internal transfer. Any repairs or work on a Sheathipede would have to be done as EVA.

So all you have to do is modify the C-Roc so that the four Sheathipede's dock at custom docking clamps place where you normally see cargo containers at the side of the ship. Since the Sheathipedes load from the back they would be ready to go for combat launches. Recovery would be a little more difficult and involved in a combat situation though. The vulture droids could be mounted on custom clamps as well. But for ease of use you could add the custom docking bay attachment to support easier launch and recover the vultures during actual combat.

That was something I was thinking about and have come to a possible fix. The VCX-100 uses a specialized docking port for the VCX-Series Auxiliary Starfighter. I am looking at the Phantom II modifications, which gives quite a bit of firepower and support capability to the shuttle. Being that the Rebel Alliance probably know how to modify the ships, it wouldn't be out of the way to set this up. At least, to me.

1 hour ago, Oldmike1 said:

is there a docking clamp Mod I have missed?

I am looking for that right now. I did find one that was mentioned for home brewed, but it seems to be a bit much. Especially for something that would require dual modification to both the C-ROC, shuttle, and fighters.

7 hours ago, Oldmike1 said:

is there a docking clamp Mod I have missed?

4 hours ago, Sarone said:

I am looking for that right now. I did find one that was mentioned for home brewed, but it seems to be a bit much. Especially for something that would require dual modification to both the C-ROC, shuttle, and fighters.

It's in there somewhere. It's not an actual mod in the list. It's a side bar that talks about docking clamps. Honestly it is exactly what the imperial gozanti uses. Anything other than internal storage is docking clamps. There is also, possibly legends, stories of rebels having multiple a-wings attached to a CR-90 via the normal clamps.

I'm not sure where you are getting your information, but you cannot have multiple copies of thre same attachment on the same ship. The sole exception being adding multiple additional weapon systems. So you can add two twin medium leader cannons, but not two high-output ion turbines.

51 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

I'm not sure where you are getting your information, but you cannot have multiple copies of thre same attachment on the same ship. The sole exception being adding multiple additional weapon systems. So you can add two twin medium leader cannons, but not two high-output ion turbines.

Book and page number, please.

54 minutes ago, Sarone said:

Book and page number, please.

I don't think it is explicitly stated, but it is kinda presumed. As far as I know, there is not a single attachment that specifies how many times it can be added, including ones that would not make sense to have multiples of. There are even some that if you had multiples of, would provide no effect to add another, even if bonuses stacked. For example, the Electronic Counter-Countermeasures suite. It has a non-stackable effect, but doesn't specify that it can only be selected once.

See the issue?

As for ones that don't make sense just in general, there's the Theater Command and Control System that upgrades Mass Combat checks, there's the Tactical Command, Control, and Communications Suite which has a similar effect, the Holo-Tank, and many others. (I took all of these from a single book)

If you allow them to take more than one of an attachment, it makes more questions than it answers, such as "which effects stack?" or "what about mods?"

Just asking for someone to give a reference on a disputed rule is not a good way of getting your point across (especially as they may be AFB). If you want to convince them, you provide book and page that proves your point.

Edit: Took some digging, but I found this in the FFG Developer Answered Questions thread:

Question asked by HappyDaze:

Can starships have multiple installations of Attachments like Enhanced Carbon-Durasteel Armor or High-Output Ion Turbine?

Answered by Sam Stewart:

Generally, no, they can only benefit from one of each type of attachment. Exceptions may be made for attachments such as weapons, however.

2 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

I don't think it is explicitly stated, but it is kinda presumed. As far as I know, there is not a single attachment that specifies how many times it can be added, including ones that would not make sense to have multiples of. There are even some that if you had multiples of, would provide no effect to add another, even if bonuses stacked. For example, the Electronic Counter-Countermeasures suite. It has a non-stackable effect, but doesn't specify that it can only be selected once.

See the issue?

As for ones that don't make sense just in general, there's the Theater Command and Control System that upgrades Mass Combat checks, there's the Tactical Command, Control, and Communications Suite which has a similar effect, the Holo-Tank, and many others. (I took all of these from a single book)

If you allow them to take more than one of an attachment, it makes more questions than it answers, such as "which effects stack?" or "what about mods?"

Just asking for someone to give a reference on a disputed rule is not a good way of getting your point across (especially as they may be AFB). If you want to convince them, you provide book and page that proves your point.

Edit: Took some digging, but I found this in the FFG Developer Answered Questions thread:

Question asked by HappyDaze:

Can starships have multiple installations of Attachments like Enhanced Carbon-Durasteel Armor or High-Output Ion Turbine?

Answered by Sam Stewart:

Generally, no, they can only benefit from one of each type of attachment. Exceptions may be made for attachments such as weapons, however.

I was asking HappyDaze, NOT YOU. You want to step into this, fine. But if I ask someone for the book and page number, it's A) I couldn't find it in three CRBs and B) If they say no but without giving evidence, it is on them, not me. Getting told no and not having anything to back it is annoying and ridiculous.

As for the developer saying anything, it was never covered in ANY of the books since then. Having a FOUR YEAR OLD comment cited doesn't bode well for me, at the very least.

Second: EXCEPTIONS MAY BE MADE FOR ATTACHMENTS SUCH AS WEAPONS, HOWEVER.

The docking system has more in common with weapons than a blanket mods such as armor, engines, and command modules. The argument can be made for that and the fact that such as the cargo system used by the C-ROC are similar to each other.

Frankly, I wasn't asking for reason why it can't be done. I was asking how it can be done as well as how others would get it done.

4 hours ago, Sarone said:

I was asking HappyDaze, NOT YOU. You want to step into this, fine. But if I ask someone for the book and page number, it's A) I couldn't find it in three CRBs and B) If they say no but without giving evidence, it is on them, not me. Getting told no and not having anything to back it is annoying and ridiculous.

As for the developer saying anything, it was never covered in ANY of the books since then. Having a FOUR YEAR OLD comment cited doesn't bode well for me, at the very least.

Second: EXCEPTIONS MAY BE MADE FOR ATTACHMENTS SUCH AS WEAPONS, HOWEVER.

The docking system has more in common with weapons than a blanket mods such as armor, engines, and command modules. The argument can be made for that and the fact that such as the cargo system used by the C-ROC are similar to each other.

Frankly, I wasn't asking for reason why it can't be done. I was asking how it can be done as well as how others would get it done.

Do what you will, but with that attitude, I'm done responding to you though. First you claim to want feedback but expect an echo chamber that pats you on the back even when your idea goes against the rules or is just plain dumb . Then you ignore relevant input from another poster because you want to make it a personal battle with me. I'll be putting you on ignore so you can be one step closer to your goal of only listening to your own voice.

On 3/20/2020 at 8:20 PM, Sarone said:

I recently had gotten the C-ROC cruiser model and would like to come up with ways in game on converting the C-ROC into a pocket carrier. The idea is to have it be able to carry and support two to four Sheathipede class shuttles on top and a few modified Vulture Droids on the bottom. It's role is to act as an escort and troop transport for convoys.

I figure that I would need to set aside Hard Points, Encumbrance, and credits for the modifications. However, from the GM and player perspectives, how would you build a C-Roc cruiser/pocket carrier?

Since there aren't really rules for it, I'd probably come up with some of my own. As a GM, or as a player wanting to do this, here is what I'd propose:

I'd probably go with the credit, hardpoint, and time/effort costs of the CRB hangar bay attachment, to make it simple - the work requires less physical space than the hangar, but you're making custom docking clamps for those ships rather than a generic hangar bay. Same costs for ease, but different result.

Additionally, because the C-ROC stores quite a bit of its cargo externally where you're intending on putting the shuttles, and because it's a custom job, I would cut the encumbrance capacity by half (putting it slightly below the standard Gozanti Carrier's encumbrance capacity).

Sheathipedes and Vultures are both pretty tiny, and the 'wings' are designed to carry cargo, so I wouldn't worry too much about having to reinforce the structure outside of the work required to install the clamps (but it could be an added cost if there GM needed to take more of the PC's credits away from them).

As a GM, I would also require that this work be done at a small shipyard if the players didn't want it to take forever or want to have to worry about problems with the docking mechanisms - it's not the sort of thing that just anyone could just slap together.

On 3/22/2020 at 10:41 PM, Sarone said:

On 3/23/2020 at 6:26 PM, Sarone said:

Book and page number, please.

ECRB p188

Players and Game Masters should use common sense when choosing attachments, and are advised to pay close attention to the attachment descriptions that note where attachments can be mounted and what weapons they can be mounted to.