I know this won’t tear up the meta but god-dang it, is it’s fun. I know I’ve over spent on vess but I can’t think of how to trim enough for a 4th ship. Thoughts?

Vess 57

(84) Colonel Vessery [TIE/D Defender]
(5) Heavy Laser Cannon
(2) Fire-Control System
(7) Juke
Points: 98

(43) Seventh Sister [TIE Advanced v1]
(3) Hate
(2) Fire-Control System
Points: 48

(42) Fifth Brother [TIE Advanced v1]
(3) Hate
(5) Homing Missiles
(2) Fire-Control System
Points: 52

Total points: 198

Snitch Tagging Paging @Cuz05

Anyhow, I think it looks like fun.

1 hour ago, urbanyeti said:

I know this won’t tear up the meta but god-dang it, is it’s fun. I know I’ve over spent on vess but I can’t think of how to trim enough for a 4th ship. Thoughts?

Vess 57

(84) Colonel Vessery [TIE/D Defender]
(5) Heavy Laser Cannon
(2) Fire-Control System
(7) Juke
Points: 98

(43) Seventh Sister [TIE Advanced v1]
(3) Hate
(2) Fire-Control System
Points: 48

(42) Fifth Brother [TIE Advanced v1]
(3) Hate
(5) Homing Missiles
(2) Fire-Control System
Points: 52

Total points: 198

Passive Sensors on 5th bro make him terrifying to fragile aces

Tricky!!

Honestly though, totally different kettle of fish to my Vess and SuperInqs. I think it's a really difficult list in the current meta either way, named I4s are having a harder time against the beef, swarms and hyper efficient high Init aces that rule the Extended roost now, more than at any time in the past. 4 of them can get by, but 3 is asking a lot.

The strengths of the SuperInqs in my old list were range control and maximum tankiness. They could leverage that really well, to deflect or punish attention on Vess. Or just run and hide. I'm not convinced the v1 has enough beans to do the necessary in this context, without Supernats.

It was a list that had some very hard match ups as well. Precog Vader, (my alt in old HS mode), was better than Vessery at evening those pairings out, but even then, I fear for it in the current climate.

That's the bad....

The good, Outmanouvre on Vess, with those friendly locks giving him ALL THE MODS, was astonishingly powerful. Juke is a nice call, since he can fire last, but I also gave him Advanced Sensors, for full 'I'm a celebrity, get me out of here'. Outmanouevre dovetails real nice with that.

It's not something you want to use a lot, but with that talent and the free lock, he didn't suffer greatly from the lack of follow up actions and could use it relatively freely. As much to get into odd positions, as to bail from bad ones.

I was so-so on HLC, it didn't come up much, but obviously, when I didn't take it I had situations where I wanted it. Honestly forget what my full options were.... But at 5pt, I think I might be out on it.

The other good is that 7th Sister is brilliant. I imagine Bro is also great, he's very similar, though I've not used him yet.

I'd be tempted by a slightly bigger bid for both, it's beef and numbers you'll be afraid of, rather than Init. I4s can bring a decent chunk of both with them, you don't want to deal with that and being out aced. Losing the bid to Boba and Skulls will be really bad....

Hate is pretty good here. 3pt is cheap enough for the 1 or 2 uses you'll get from it, being able to pop those abilities in clutch situations is a swinger.

FCS is nailed on the v1s with Vess, for me, those locks want to stay up ALL the time. You'll miss that mod, and free Vess target selection, without it. You need to be able to scoot about and switch targets, spending the v1 locks makes that awkward and leaves them facing bother when they want to acquire a new one.

If opposing things die, the bother is naturally less, but mess happens. Sometimes you're just chipping away and refusing to take damage.

Homing on Bro is an auto-include, surely.

I imagine Bro and Sis will allow Vess to be used as more of a battering ram, at times. With mine, he absolutely could not be traded, or even halved, until the end. That may help.

As said at the start though, without AS and SNR, it'll play in a very different way. You're not as supremely unpredictable and that's gonna be an Achilles Heel. Not getting the 3(!) actions on the v1s will make the lock turn very risky. But if you can fly it well, and the tools are there, it should be fairly decent and certainly good fun.

Mine was beast mode when it wanted to be, but it will be difficult, so best of luck

Great ideas! Thanks! What are people’s thoughts on ion missiles over homing?

this is an old list i've had lying around. supernatural reflexes is a super sick upgrade, since the tie advanced v1 can link boost or barrel roll into focus, then loose the stress by performing a blue maneuver and get their regular action. concussion missiles are just filler here.

you don't need FCR on vessery. homing missiles is the way to go on fifth brother, because of the synergy with his ability.

2 hours ago, urbanyeti said:

Great ideas! Thanks! What are people’s thoughts on ion missiles over homing?

Ion missiles are junk. An argument could be made for cluster missiles.

2 hours ago, urbanyeti said:

What are people’s thoughts on ion missiles over homing?

I've played fifth brother a few times with homing missiles. What's nice is that typically your opponent takes the hit. The benefit there is that you're not having to use your mods to get hits (spending your lock or your force) and then can use his ability to add the crit if the situation allows. I'm not sure Ion Missiles really offer you that much. You get an extra charge but you're more likely to need to modify the dice to push something through, possibly spending force and negating your chance to use his ability. If it even hits.

One more general comment. I flew with FCS on fifth brother as well but found myself rarely actually using it. In a different squad I'd be tempted to fly him with just homing missiles and that's it. With Vessery FCS makes a bit more sense.

I think that's what makes me a bit nervous about your list in general. There are quite a few upgrades that are 'nice to haves'. Totally get your point that you can't save enough for a forth ship, but it makes me wonder whether it's the right three ships or right three pilots.

3 hours ago, urbanyeti said:

Great ideas! Thanks! What are people’s thoughts on ion missiles over homing?

I'm wicked tempted by them on Fifth Brother. The added crit will become an Ion token, making it a lot easier to Ionize someone. A single hit will allow 5B to Ionize a small-base ship, and two hits will Ionize a Medium-base ship.

Being a lower-initiative squad, I can almost see there being issues with aces. Locking someone into a 1-straight and unable to take actions other than Focus doesn't seem bad.

Kind of depends on what you fly against. I'd rather use Homing Missiles for an extra Crit on Soontir, but I'd rather Ionize an Anakin or Obi-Wan 7B (a Single Hit/Crit attack is good, but they're tough enough to take it... Ion opens them up HARD to attacks next round).

21 hours ago, JBFancourt said:

Passive Sensors on 5th bro make him terrifying to fragile aces

Yeah, that does seem wise to me. Init 4 isn't amazing for getting locks, and Passives would make it a lot easier. Meanwhile, if an opponent takes the damage from a Homing Missiles, you won't need FCS to keep it until next round.

With Sev, I think it's probably worth keeping, since she's just a chip-damage blighter anyhow.

Vessery is a mixed bag. He frequently gets free new Locks, so kind of doesn't need it, but if it's ever a drawn-out 1-vs-1 in the end, it'll be amazing.

Dug out the thread where I hammered Vess and the Inqs into shape.

It all looks great, but my last outing with them, not long after that thread, was a pretty calamitous 0-3

I settled on HLC and AS on Vess, to fit the Concs in, which should have worked well... I'd probably run it that way now, if I were to revive it.

But still, 1 of those defeats was to Phil GCs Fenn and Guri. Got nuked! In another, I stupidly, unnecessarily, flew a full health Inq off the board while in a very commanding position vs Rep aces. The other was a good, tight game where I was just edged out on the last couple rolls, vs Teroch, Guri and Mux, result of a poor action choice, more than anything else.

So still a decent pedigree vs most things

@urbanyeti

My Vess build:

(84) Colonel Vessery [TIE/D Defender]
(0) Jamming Beam
(10) Advanced Sensors
(1) Crack Shot
Points: 95

(52) Grand Inquisitor [TIE Advanced v1]
(2) Fire-Control System
Points: 54

(43) Seventh Sister [TIE Advanced v1]
(5) Sense
(2) Fire-Control System
Points: 50

Total points: 199

6 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

I'm wicked tempted by them on Fifth Brother. The added crit will become an Ion token, making it a lot easier to Ionize someone. A single hit will allow 5B to Ionize a small-base ship, and two hits will Ionize a Medium-base ship.

My issue with it though is the odds of this happening. If you fire ion missiles at an agility three ship backed by focus and you only have a lock (i.e. assuming we don't want to spend the force so we can save it to push the crit through), 55% of the time you don't hit it at all.

With a homing missile attack (if they let you roll the dice), the odds are better - with just the lock you score a hit 70% of the time. But the bonus is that most of the time they're not even going to make you roll for it so you don't have to worry about whether to spend force to try and get the hit, or save it to add the crit. Or spend your lock.

Again, I think it depends on what you expect. If I'm more often against an Anakin, Luke, or Poe--2 agility ships which can kinda soak an extra damage from Homing--there's something really tempting about Ion Missile (70% chance to Ionize me) than I am of 2 hits. If I'm expecting Soontir and Fenn Rau, Homing is great. Hit/Crit going through against a low health opponent is really nasty.

To flip it around: Homing only seems good when opponents are scared of 2-hit attacks. There's a lot of stuff out there which won't be. Again, I keep thinking about stuff like Jedi and Ric Olie. They'll be able to laugh off a 2-hit Homing, but Ion is going to really set them up for destruction.

//

Maybe there's a different squad for an Ion Fifth Brother, however. Maybe he needs something more like a 4 ship (Soontir + 2 Striker Aces + 5B?) or 5 ship list, with more stuff which can collapse on a target. Oh crap, Hate/Passive/Ion Fifth Brother with 4 Crack Shot Saber Squad Interceptors seems really fun. Probably really mediocre, but wicked fun.

//

I'm totally open to the idea that Ion doesn't work out as well in the long run, but I think it can't be rejected out of hand, since there's a tonne of control potential here. I think it's worth experimentation. I'm tempted, not convinced, by Ion.

36 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

I'm totally open to the idea that Ion doesn't work out as well in the long run, but I think it can't be rejected out of hand, since there's a tonne of control potential here.

Yeah - that's fair.