42 minutes ago, Deadwolf said:

It's not their fault that the villains that they face their own are super schemers that advance half of their plot any time they change into their alter ego.

I agree, I don't think it is right that Thor and Hulk are weak in solo. But their character designs are thematic and Thor is strong in multiplayer so it is the Solo format itself that is flawed and is not properly balanced. Threat counts for more in solo than it does in in multiplayer (as I said, going into alter ego in solo advances the scheme by ~50% but in 2p, doing the same thing only advances it by ~25%) making the low thwart, high attack heroes weaker than they should be.

Player health doesn't scale, so that means that when the villain attacks you, it does the same amount of damage regardless of player count. So the consequences of the villain attacking is same across all player counts but the consequences of the villain scheming are worse, the fewer players in the game there are. This is why i don't think it is balanced and that high attack/thwart heroes are unfairly punished in solo.

The complementary scaling factor would be villain HP. It’s 50% higher at 2p vs 1p, effectively halving the value of damage cards (the same way a lower player count increases the danger of a villain scheming)

Essentially in solo going full Aggro is actually a viable strategy.

50 minutes ago, Derrault said:

The complementary scaling factor would be villain HP. It’s 50% higher at 2p vs 1p, effectively halving the value of damage cards (the same way a lower player count increases the danger of a villain scheming)

Essentially in solo going full Aggro is actually a viable strategy.

The 2 factors might scale evenly on paper, but not in practice.
As anyone who has done Wrecking Crew A+B or any villain, I+II+III will tell you, more hp makes the game longer, not harder (for the most part).
In solo, when you are in alter-ego, the villain schemes for ~50% of the total. In 2p, the villain schemes for ~25% for each hero, so the villain can get the same percentage, provided both heroes are in alter-ego at the same time, but it is generally easy (and recommended) to not do that and only ever have one hero in alter-ego at any one time. So over the course of the game the villain might scheme for the same amount (percentage wise) but in solo, it is in larger burst amounts, which makes a huge difference.

6 hours ago, Deadwolf said:

The 2 factors might scale evenly on paper, but not in practice.
As anyone who has done Wrecking Crew A+B or any villain, I+II+III will tell you, more hp makes the game longer, not harder (for the most part).
In solo, when you are in alter-ego, the villain schemes for ~50% of the total. In 2p, the villain schemes for ~25% for each hero, so the villain can get the same percentage, provided both heroes are in alter-ego at the same time, but it is generally easy (and recommended) to not do that and only ever have one hero in alter-ego at any one time. So over the course of the game the villain might scheme for the same amount (percentage wise) but in solo, it is in larger burst amounts, which makes a huge difference.

Sure, double scheming is something you have to play around in solo; but it’s generally not a concern in a race to the finish situation, as with Aggression. The goal would be to let them scheme more than once or twice and use those special cards like allies, defense of the nine realms, and chase them down to keep threat managed.

One house rule has made Thor much more playable for me, and it even feels pretty thematic: start him with one (or two, if you're feeling like you want a more heroic, less stressful experience) God of Thunder(s) in play.

Honestly, I don’t think he’s terrible; just hard. I sort of equate him design-wise to a combination Black Panther, Ms. Marvel and, maybe Ironman. I think you need a few modifications to play him aggro but, he doesn’t lack for damage. Leadership is interesting. If only played ally leadership with him though; not the inspired one. Which I think would likely be better. Honestly, haven’t lost with him yet but I did have a close call once. I think you have to think about what your damage focus is; Hammer Throw or Lightning Strike and build from there.

I really enjoy the feeling with Thor solo. It's not easy, you need to think about your deckbuilding and how to play your cards, and you're running against the main scheme clock, but overall, Thor can prepare himself quietly and unleash a big amount of damages in a few rounds.

And there's some really great cards in this pack too!

I haven't played with the Thor deck yet, but I was just looking at the cards. He has some powerful cards and it sounds like it would fit how Thor is in some of the comic stories from the 70s. Like I read a story where he took down a bunch of space ships by using his thunder powers, it looks like once you collect the right cards for him you can do some strong attacks, just like Thor does in the comics.

This has been discussed elsewhere but yes I too found Thor hard to win with against Rhino and Klaw ... until I started playing him the right way. Thor is a lot more subtle than you would expect of Blondie. Anyone expect him to to just smash villains like Captain marvel and She-Hilk does get a shock. As has been mentioned his hammer boosted core attack followed by a hammer throw or two (or even 3 although that's a **** lucky draw indeed) can do decent damage but not something like Captain Marvel can do with a Energy Channel and Photonic blast while still being able to take 2 threat away. She Hulk too with her one two punches (I've seen all three come out in one hand) making Thor look a little disappointing. Yes Thor can't thwart for watery mead - unless you utilise the Defender of the the Nine Realms to summon a minion which takes 3 threat followed by Chase me down to take another 2 threat once Thor has dealt with said summoned minion. This is how you manage Rhino and Klaw who have a lot of villains who are only 2 or 3 points and easily taken out with a core attack. Now I don't know how they will rationalise Hulk thwarting but Thor has the ability to cheaply (both cards are 0 cost) to keep the threat down while slowly ramp up. Yes you need to save up to buy Asgard and the Hall of heroes is also very important. Rotating to Odinson - something I personally didn't do enough because I was so worried about the threat build up - should be done regularly (every 3rd turn worked for me). I would recommend not playing with the starter deck and take things like combat training, uppercut and first aid along with cards that provide energy and physical resources which means you can then devote your cards elsewhere while these polls fuel Thor's other abilities. Improving Thor's recovery is also not a bad idea (look at Ms Marvel's grey cards - they really are better for Thor, and others, than for her). Anyway Thor is enjoyable solo but you have to think and plan how Thor is going to operate each turn and not just rely on brute strength.

4 hours ago, James Ravenwood said:

This has been discussed elsewhere but yes I too found Thor hard to win with against Rhino and Klaw ... until I started playing him the right way. Thor is a lot more subtle than you would expect of Blondie. Anyone expect him to to just smash villains like Captain marvel and She-Hilk does get a shock. As has been mentioned his hammer boosted core attack followed by a hammer throw or two (or even 3 although that's a **** lucky draw indeed) can do decent damage but not something like Captain Marvel can do with a Energy Channel and Photonic blast while still being able to take 2 threat away. She Hulk too with her one two punches (I've seen all three come out in one hand) making Thor look a little disappointing. Yes Thor can't thwart for watery mead - unless you utilise the Defender of the the Nine Realms to summon a minion which takes 3 threat followed by Chase me down to take another 2 threat once Thor has dealt with said summoned minion. This is how you manage Rhino and Klaw who have a lot of villains who are only 2 or 3 points and easily taken out with a core attack. Now I don't know how they will rationalise Hulk thwarting but Thor has the ability to cheaply (both cards are 0 cost) to keep the threat down while slowly ramp up. Yes you need to save up to buy Asgard and the Hall of heroes is also very important. Rotating to Odinson - something I personally didn't do enough because I was so worried about the threat build up - should be done regularly (every 3rd turn worked for me). I would recommend not playing with the starter deck and take things like combat training, uppercut and first aid along with cards that provide energy and physical resources which means you can then devote your cards elsewhere while these polls fuel Thor's other abilities. Improving Thor's recovery is also not a bad idea (look at Ms Marvel's grey cards - they really are better for Thor, and others, than for her). Anyway Thor is enjoyable solo but you have to think and plan how Thor is going to operate each turn and not just rely on brute strength.

This has been my experience. Thor takes some time to ramp (like Iron Man), but once he gets his kit together, he absolutely wails on enemies. Defender of the Nine Realms is absolutely crucial to his threat control and card draw. It does mean you need to play a little fast-and-loose with the encounter deck, but if you know what you're doing, you'll smash the villain before the increased threat generation becomes a problem.

I did throw together a Justice deck for him and it worked, but losing the Hall of Heroes is a big blow to his ability to draw cards. I imagine that will become less of an issue over time with more Justice cards. The big thing is that while Aggression Thor has to be approached in a specific way when it comes to thwart, he'll ramp fast if you concentrate on paying for his key cards (Asgard, God of Thunder, Hall of Heroes) as soon as you get them. Justice Thor is pretty slow. Granted, I've only gotten through one game against Rhino (instead of Bomb Scare I threw in the Masters of Mayhem) but in that one game I was able to get Under Surveillance out in the first turn. That card is an auto-include for Thor in a Justice deck. It gave me enough breathing room that I was able to flip back to Odinson to recover without worrying that I was going to threat out. Came close a couple of times (I think I got up to 10 threat twice!) but with three Surveillance Teams and an Interrogation Room running, plus Daredevil and Jessica Jones, and Defender of the Nine Realms, I was able to knock that back down to 0-2 pretty consistently throughout the game (for most of the game I was able to keep the threat from going over six, but the few times I needed to let it go to make progress, getting it back down was easy).

I really think Thor is going to be a hero that is going to shine the longer the overall game is around to expand the card pool.

Isn't Under Surveillance just the best card/s? Regarding Aspects at the moment Thor is, thematically, wedded to Aggression because of all the Asgard cards in the Aggression deck now. Hall of Heroes, Jarnbjorn (Thor's axe) and Valkyrie are especially missed. Plus you can always add a few more chase me down cards doesn't hurt. Rhino can be tough for anyone (a Justice Captain Marvel and She Hulk I found are the exceptions.) Being an Iron Man player once I realised that Thor needed to ramp rather than just get stuck in he does become much more enjoyable if not exactly thematic which I think is the problem with many. To those who have had a rough start with Thor don't feel bad, we all did but once you get the hang of how to play him he is fun. Looking forward to when Team Covenant get to try him out.

Yeah, for sure Thor works best with Aggression. I'm sure Black Widow will have a similar issue with Justice when she makes her appearance next week (I can't wait!). Agent Coulsen is just tailor-made for BW. But I'm excited to see where this all goes and how the card pool expands.

2 hours ago, maniakmedic said:

Yeah, for sure Thor works best with Aggression. I'm sure Black Widow will have a similar issue with Justice when she makes her appearance next week (I can't wait!). Agent Coulsen is just tailor-made for BW. But I'm excited to see where this all goes and how the card pool expands.

From what we've seen so far from BW's kit, there are no obvious aspect synergies making her pretty versatile. Justice may still be the best due to having the most preparation synergy, depending on the Aggression and Protection cards in her pack, those could be viable.

Her damage is serviceable, and she has the strongest thwart event yet so I dont think she will have issues.

15 hours ago, James Ravenwood said:

Isn't Under Surveillance just the best card/s? Regarding Aspects at the moment Thor is, thematically, wedded to Aggression because of all the Asgard cards in the Aggression deck now. Hall of Heroes, Jarnbjorn (Thor's axe) and Valkyrie are especially missed. Plus you can always add a few more chase me down cards doesn't hurt. Rhino can be tough for anyone (a Justice Captain Marvel and She Hulk I found are the exceptions.) Being an Iron Man player once I realised that Thor needed to ramp rather than just get stuck in he does become much more enjoyable if not exactly thematic which I think is the problem with many. To those who have had a rough start with Thor don't feel bad, we all did but once you get the hang of how to play him he is fun. Looking forward to when Team Covenant get to try him out.

Well actually the more Asgard cards in your deck the worse Thor will be punished by Family Feud which is also counter thematic that you want him to be LESS Asgard.

1 hour ago, zeromage said:

Well actually the more Asgard cards in your deck the worse Thor will be punished by Family Feud which is also counter thematic that you want him to be LESS Asgard.

This is another situation where it is worse in solo than multiplayer unfortunately, as the chance of getting Thor's nemesis specifically is considerably less and Family feud is also easier to deal with.

I do agree that they made Thor's nemesis set much harder than it should be (it is considerably above curve).

I consider judging any hero in this game (ESPECIALLY any Avenger) by their solo hero play alone to be a mistake. Perhaps an argument could be made that any hero should be viable in that game mode (and they are) , but one should naturally expect them to provide their own unique challenges and difficulties to such gameplay. Thor does. He's challenging solo, but a beast in teamplay.

If every character is good at everything, why bother? They might as well all be the same character.

Strangely, I think Thor's nemesis set aids him rather than hurts him if you find it late enough in a game. The ability to add 3 extra minions to an encounter means the impact 1 defender of the nine realms has on the overall encounter deck pace towards another acceleration token diminishes.

I agree with Deathseed re: different heroes have different strengths and weaknesses so that their interactions and play styles can appeal to different players and fit in different types of teams that work together towards completing a scenario.

Yes Thor is towards the bottom tier.

Mainly because his hand size is 4. In solo this means you really start off on your heels until you get your hand size up. His ability helps but is really swingy.

He needs to pay for Justice cards to manage Threat, which means he has a tough time getting big damage off on the Villain because he also needs to line up Lightning to clear minions, which stack up because you're too busy doing housekeeping trying to get Asgard and God of Thunders ready.

As others mention, a better ability on the hammer would help, like if you could have it be +1 for damage OR defense (which I'd probably run on defense almost the entire time).

So far I'm 0 and 6 against Expert Klaw.

Thor is playable but is definitely playing the game on "hardcore" mode if solo...

2 hours ago, Dicewarrior said:

Thor is playable but is definitely playing the game on "hardcore" mode if solo...

The If solo part is important though.

I just don't play Thor in solo anymore, don't think he is worth it. But I love me some Thor in multiplayer, and I've ended a few games with others saying I was the clear MVP. He is a powerhouse in MP.

Thor is an odd duck.

He was designed as a High atk/low thwart hero. The problem is that his damage potential isnt actually that much higher than average but his thwart is below average.

Thor's real strength is his economy. Between his ability, Asgard, and God of Thunders, he actually has the best hero mode economy in the game. But his economy does start weaker and takes time to build up to that, which makes Thor a set up type hero.

But as a Setup hero, his low thwart fails him, particularly in solo. In solo, he struggles to not lose due to Threat. The acceleration from DoNR and his Nemesis set also unfairly punishes him in solo.

In Multiplayer however, you can build your team such that losing by threat is less of an issue, allowing him to focus on what he is good at.

That said, Thor does rely on his hero ability to distinguish himself from other heroes. He is really strong against Ultron, Mutagen, and Klaw+Masters, but vs other scenarios, other heroes will do just as much damage, and also have better thwarting.

I exclusively play 2-player and yet still have to agree with the OP. He doesn't feel like an aggro character, his damage output is actually kind of weak. She-Hulk is a better example of a character that hits hard but struggles elsewhere.

6 hours ago, Supertoe said:

I exclusively play 2-player and yet still have to agree with the OP. He doesn't feel like an aggro character, his damage output is actually kind of weak. She-Hulk is a better example of a character that hits hard but struggles elsewhere.

She-Hulk actually has a lot of thwarting power.

On 3/15/2020 at 9:20 PM, Deadwolf said:

(Thor, She-Hulk, Hulk) are just naturally going to struggle in solo by nature.

I'm not trying to deral the thread, but I often hear about She-Hulk not being that great in solo. I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong or what, but I hardly ever lose playing She-Hulk/justice. In normal mode it's nearly 100% win rate, in expert it's probably closer to 80%. What's the challenge so many players find with her? I will even be so bold as to say she is the strongest hero in the game by far.

22 minutes ago, urloony said:

I'm not trying to deral the thread, but I often hear about She-Hulk not being that great in solo. I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong or what, but I hardly ever lose playing She-Hulk/justice. In normal mode it's nearly 100% win rate, in expert it's probably closer to 80%. What's the challenge so many players find with her? I will even be so bold as to say she is the strongest hero in the game by far.

I’m in the same camp, I did every villain/module combo with her and Aggression; the most difficult matchup to puzzle out was Klaw + Legions of Hydra, and then only because Klaw has the two schemes that need to get burned ASAP, and because the hydra scheme also needs to get removed immediately, lest it become problematic.

44 minutes ago, urloony said:

I'm not trying to deral the thread, but I often hear about She-Hulk not being that great in solo. I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong or what, but I hardly ever lose playing She-Hulk/justice. In normal mode it's nearly 100% win rate, in expert it's probably closer to 80%. What's the challenge so many players find with her? I will even be so bold as to say she is the strongest hero in the game by far.

I probably should have followed that statement with "unless playing with Justice" as it covers their primary weakness.

Tho, I don't think Hulk will be very good with Justice because Justice has very few physical resource cards. But You'll pay for That and Drop Kick are pretty big buffs for solo Aggression.

After watching Team Covenant (Steven) play Thor on Heroic with Zach I did the same, teaming him up with Captain Marvel. Thor really impressed me. He can have a really big turn with both Jarnbjorn and Mjolnir out plus playing two Mean Swings (exhausting both weapons) and a skilled strike plus expending another physical resource to activate Jarnbjorn for a very descent 13 damage (and this from just 4 cards - the two weapons were already in play). On other turns he concentrated on hitting then hammer throwing for a nice 11 per turn.

With Captain Marvel (Leadership) covering the thwarting as well as laying in with Photonic blasts and Energy Channels this was an excellent team up. I'd previously tried Captain Marvel with Black Widow and just could beat the Wrecking Crew but I beat Heroic 1 Wrecking Crew twice in a row with Thor and CM and while I did loose Thor in one game he definitely held his own. The problem many have with him Solo really isn't there when you play in a team.

The number of 0 cost Aggression cards can really be used to boost Thor's attacks consistently and Get Over Here (which is redundant in Solo) comes into play nicely as part of a team and allows you to charge up Hall of Heroes. Another thing was that I never really got to use Asgard (Piledriver kept on discarding it) and I found that I could adapt Thor to not need the extra card. Captain Marvel's Alter-ego Command ability comes in handy here as she gave Thor the extra card when needed. The two really work well together and boy do they generate strong damage on a regular basis while CM also covers the thwarting.

I heartily recommend Thor in any team and thanks again to Steven for getting me to give the God of Thunder and other try.