7 hours ago, James Ravenwood said:

The problem many have with him Solo really isn't there when you play in a team.

This right here. Thor's weaknesses are on full display in solo whereas in multiplayer you can see his strengths more often. In solo, a slow start or poor luck developing your board early can be game-ending. That's not really any different from Iron Man. Thor is definitely a high-variance character that's somewhat scenario-dependent as well so there will be weaker match-ups and swingy turns. He starts a bit behind most other heroes so his floor is lower however those turns where you get a minion in the previous villain phase and another during your turn can be incredibly impressive. I would even say Mighty.

Just kind of curious when judging Thor are we just judging the 16 cards that are unique to him and how they balance out with villains, obligations, nemesis cards, and the best possible Thor aspect build?

No matter what cards he plays, he is for the most part down a card for the whole game (with the exception of the start turn).

His Hero stats are mid-range totaling 5 , close to most Heroes. He does have more health so conceivably he can start the end game run turn 1 turn sooner (where exactly you take the swing turn is villain dependent) .

His recovery is 4 which is comparative to other characters with the same stats (most of which generally have superior alter-ego powers)

Speaking of which, he has next to no alter-ego power and his Hero Power is super marginal and mostly unreliable.

Loki is one of the rougher Nemesis minions as recurring him is a big feel bad.

Lady Sif on the other hand is a pretty good signature ally, but she is brutally expensive for a lower resource deck.

He has 3 resource ramp cards which is a fair number but they are on the pricey side particularly with 2 of them mode dependent and once again with less starting cards they are harder to get out.

The helmet is reasonable to low value

Lightning Strike is overpriced

Dot9R is super gimmicky and only nets 1 card (if you assume he has no Hero Power). If you imagine he actually has a Hero Power (on par with other heroes) then this card is super situational.

I think this deck would have been fine if they made the "Tutor" card and the 2x Lightning Strike each cost 0 to balance out his awkward hand size.

The bigger down side is his starter aspect deck*...you should scrap all of it except for Valkyrie (and maybe Mean Swing/Jambjorn) before judging the god of thunder. Hall of Heroes is possibly the worst trap card as Thor is just unlikely to get any value out of that card; he will lose the game before he flips it twice.

-just my $0.02

*If you are going to force build him with Hercules, Heimdall, Hall of Heroes, Battle Fury, and Get Over Here, I dont think youre giving him a fair shake.

7 hours ago, IceHot42 said:

Just kind of curious when judging Thor are we just judging the 16 cards that are unique to him and how they balance out with villains, obligations, nemesis cards, and the best possible Thor aspect build?

I was judging him playing solo with all different aspects.

I agree with all your points. I wonder if an easy balance for solo would just be to up his Hero hand size by one...

12 hours ago, Dicewarrior said:

I was judging him playing solo with all different aspects.

I agree with all your points. I wonder if an easy balance for solo would just be to up his Hero hand size by one...

Okay, not everyone's going to have a hand size of 6 in AE, and a hand size of 5 in hero, and that's a good thing. We don't want everyone to be the same, and that does mean that some heroes are going to be worse at buying cards(which, by the way, is not Thor). I personally think that he has just as much crazy turns at the end of the game as Iron man. Thor has one of the highest resource generation capabilities in the whole game! You guys are going to HATE Hulk! 😂

Hulk has less resource generation than Thor but also less setup required. He does have considerably higher damage potential meaning he can dps race more consistently than Thor and the additions of Drop Kick and You'll pay for that are big buffs to aggression in general (especially in solo).

However, unlike Thor, Justice isnt really an option to compensate for his thwarting weakness, due to a lack of physical resources in Justice.

Thor solo with his starter deck is quite tough, even on standard. I like Aggression for him but not solo. Justice pretty much the only way to have a chance in Solo but not very thematic.

On 7/23/2020 at 3:47 PM, IceHot42 said:

Just kind of curious when judging Thor are we just judging the 16 cards that are unique to him and how they balance out with villains, obligations, nemesis cards, and the best possible Thor aspect build?

No matter what cards he plays, he is for the most part down a card for the whole game (with the exception of the start turn).

His Hero stats are mid-range totaling 5 , close to most Heroes. He does have more health so conceivably he can start the end game run turn 1 turn sooner (where exactly you take the swing turn is villain dependent) .

His recovery is 4 which is comparative to other characters with the same stats (most of which generally have superior alter-ego powers)

Speaking of which, he has next to no alter-ego power and his Hero Power is super marginal and mostly unreliable.

Loki is one of the rougher Nemesis minions as recurring him is a big feel bad.

Lady Sif on the other hand is a pretty good signature ally, but she is brutally expensive for a lower resource deck.

He has 3 resource ramp cards which is a fair number but they are on the pricey side particularly with 2 of them mode dependent and once again with less starting cards they are harder to get out.

The helmet is reasonable to low value

Lightning Strike is overpriced

Dot9R is super gimmicky and only nets 1 card (if you assume he has no Hero Power). If you imagine he actually has a Hero Power (on par with other heroes) then this card is super situational.

I think this deck would have been fine if they made the "Tutor" card and the 2x Lightning Strike each cost 0 to balance out his awkward hand size.

The bigger down side is his starter aspect deck*...you should scrap all of it except for Valkyrie (and maybe Mean Swing/Jambjorn) before judging the god of thunder. Hall of Heroes is possibly the worst trap card as Thor is just unlikely to get any value out of that card; he will lose the game before he flips it twice.

-just my $0.02

*If you are going to force build him with Hercules, Heimdall, Hall of Heroes, Battle Fury, and Get Over Here, I dont think youre giving him a fair shake.

Thor’s cards are comparable to the other hero decks. His attack cards are better than most other heroes:

Hammer Throw: 3 + card return for 8 overkill vs

Black Panther: 1 for 6 (fully equipped)
Black Widow: 3 for 6

Cap: 3 for 6 + Stun

Cap M: 3 for 5 + card draw
Doctor Strange: 4 for 5-7 (magic blast); 2 for 7 (CB of C) or 3 for 7 (MotMA into CBoC)

Iron Man: 2 for 4 or 2+1 cost trait for 8
Ms. Marvel: 2 for 4

She-Hulk: 1 for ATK, or 4 for DMG (15 cap)
Spider-Man: 3 for 8

Thor needs the least setup for the biggest punch. His AoE is also superb, considering he’s likely to pull the minions from DotNR, likely giving him >2 damage per additional resource. That it can scale makes it compare very favorably with the very limited alternatives: Ground Stomp (Hits everything, which is pretty good), Energy Daggers (also limited to villain and minions engaged with one hero), and even Shield Toss (only works off cards discarded). Thor can deal 4 to villain + minions engaged for 1 card + 2x God of Thunder. The rest of the heroes don’t even have AoE, potentially a big liability against Ultron or Green Goblin.

Thor's alter ego action gets his hammer back which you should be abusing as often as possible, purposefully discarding it as a resource when you know you're not doing a basic attack, then scooping it right back up.

Thors definitely weaker in solo, everyone agrees on that. I think his starter deck is also weak compared to others which also makes him look worse than he is (Why are there so many expensive basic cards for his lower hand size? Why are there 3 copies of Invulnerable, contender for most overpriced card in game?). Theres also currently only 2 scenarios with a significant amount of minions which Thor crushes.

Keep in mind defender of the 9 realms removes 3 threat for 0 cost, and you get a minion and 2 cards. The one change I would make to Thor is instead of discarding cards until you get a minion, and getting closer to acceleration tokens, defender of the 9 realms should have you shuffle those cards back into the deck. The risk of discarding a bunch of cards before getting a minion is my main reason for not playing it that often. For something there is 3 of it really shouldnt be so situational based on how well you've counted cards to rain man how many minions are left in deck.

4 minutes ago, Jonathan4290 said:

Thor's alter ego action gets his hammer back which you should be abusing as often as possible, purposefully discarding it as a resource when you know you're not doing a basic attack, then scooping it right back up.

Thors definitely weaker in solo, everyone agrees on that. I think his starter deck is also weak compared to others which also makes him look worse than he is. Theres also currently only 2 scenarios with a significant amount of minions which Thor crushes.

Keep in mind defender of the 9 realms removes 3 threat for 0 cost, and you get a minion and 2 cards. The one change I would make to Thor is instead of discarding cards until you get a minion, and getting closer to acceleration tokens, defender of the 9 realms should have you shuffle those cards back into the deck. The risk of discarding a bunch of cards before getting a minion is my main reason for not playing it that often. For something there is 3 of it really shouldnt be so situational based on how well you've counted cards to rain man how many minions are left in deck.

Yeah the alter ego thing is interesting because you can use the hammer as a free resource if you time it right. Like, Hammer Strike, then use the hammer card as a resource, then flip to alter ego and get the hammer back.

Do9R is a slippery slope and relies on Lightning for obvious reasons, and you're right the discarding Encounter cards makes it VERY swingy. I'd rather it cost one resource, and you just search discard/deck for a minion and put it in to play.

By the way, for cards where you search for a minion, it doesn't say which minion - how do you all decide? I usually choose the one closest to the top of the discard pile, if none there, then closest to top of Encounter deck..

1 hour ago, Jonathan4290 said:

Theres also currently only 2 scenarios with a significant amount of minions which Thor crushes.

I'd say Klaw with Masters of Evil or Legion also has a significant amount of minions.

I am testing a house where DoNR says "reveal cards from the encounter deck until you reveal a minion. Place that minion in play engaged with you. Shuffle the encounter deck.

I honestly dont think the acceleration was really an intended cost of the card.

1 hour ago, Deadwolf said:

I'd say Klaw with Masters of Evil or Legion also has a significant amount of minions.

I am testing a house where DoNR says "reveal cards from the encounter deck until you reveal a minion. Place that minion in play engaged with you. Shuffle the encounter deck.

I honestly dont think the acceleration was really an intended cost of the card.

Did you mean shuffle the Encounter deck including any discards?

12 hours ago, Deadwolf said:

I'd say Klaw with Masters of Evil or Legion also has a significant amount of minions.

I am testing a house where DoNR says "reveal cards from the encounter deck until you reveal a minion. Place that minion in play engaged with you. Shuffle the encounter deck.

I honestly dont think the acceleration was really an intended cost of the card.

Reveal would be so much worse, you’d be hitting every treachery.

13 hours ago, Dicewarrior said:

By the way, for cards where you search for a minion, it doesn't say which minion - how do you all decide? I usually choose the one closest to the top of the discard pile, if none there, then closest to top of Encounter deck..

It's the player's choice.

From the Rules Reference ("Search"): "When a player is instructed to search for a card, the player is permitted to look at each of the cards in the searched area." So you can look at all the cards in the specified area(s), you don't stop as soon as you find the first valid card. "If a player finds multiple cards that satisfy the criteria of a search, the player chooses among those options."

1 hour ago, Derrault said:

Reveal would be so much worse, you’d be hitting every treachery.

Yeah, I guess reveal is the wrong word.

Basically, look at cards till you find a minion, then shuffle the cards you looked at back into deck.

21 hours ago, Derrault said:

Thor’s cards are comparable to the other hero decks. His attack cards are better than most other heroes:

Hammer Throw: 3 + card return for 8 overkill vs

Black Panther: 1 for 6 (fully equipped)
Black Widow: 3 for 6

Cap: 3 for 6 + Stun

Cap M: 3 for 5 + card draw
Doctor Strange: 4 for 5-7 (magic blast); 2 for 7 (CB of C) or 3 for 7 (MotMA into CBoC)

Iron Man: 2 for 4 or 2+1 cost trait for 8
Ms. Marvel: 2 for 4

She-Hulk: 1 for ATK, or 4 for DMG (15 cap)
Spider-Man: 3 for 8

Thor needs the least setup for the biggest punch.

His cards are equivalent to the more efficient cards other heroes have at best, but he also has a smaller hand size on top of that. And his signature resource cards are awful (2 cost and hero only). Thor gets to perform as well as other heroes do when everything goes perfectly for him. He's got a lower floor and the same ceiling (with the exception of Strange, who towers above every other hero at the high end).

7 hours ago, DatonKallandor said:

His cards are equivalent to the more efficient cards other heroes have at best, but he also has a smaller hand size on top of that. And his signature resource cards are awful (2 cost and hero only). Thor gets to perform as well as other heroes do when everything goes perfectly for him. He's got a lower floor and the same ceiling (with the exception of Strange, who towers above every other hero at the high end).

God of Thunder ranks amongst the best resource generation cards in the game, competing only with resource generators from the S tier heroes (Super Soldier Serum and Eye of Agamotto). I've played Thor a lot, the number of times where it being hero only has made a difference is very low.

And I disagree that his ceiling is the same as other heroes, in minion heavy scenarios, his ability is borderline OP, and very much has a higher ceiling than many other heroes.

But outside those scenarios, I agree.

15 hours ago, DatonKallandor said:

His cards are equivalent to the more efficient cards other heroes have at best, but he also has a smaller hand size on top of that. And his signature resource cards are awful (2 cost and hero only). Thor gets to perform as well as other heroes do when everything goes perfectly for him. He's got a lower floor and the same ceiling (with the exception of Strange, who towers above every other hero at the high end).

When everything goes perfectly for Thor he is rocking a hand of 9 in hero form ( base 4 + Asgard 1 + engaging minions 4) and has access to 2 resource generation through God of Thunder, all from his signature kit. FFG did a stream where the designers played Mutagen Formula and you can see some crazy turns Thor had. He was using Do9R and Get Over Here constantly to gather minions and crush them all with his lightning.

Math-wise, I consider Odinson to have a practical handsize of 6 given the shenanigans you can do with the hammer discard and recall. For Thor, if you engage a minion every 2 turns, your average handsize is 5.

Now if you're against Ultron, you pretty much always have a minion engaging you and your handsize is basically 6 anyways but depending on scenario, difficulty, and modular set, you may not engage on average 1 minion every 2 turns. But that's why he has cards to help you engage minions.

Also, Thor's ability gets better and better the higher difficulty you play at as you draw more encounter cards.

On 7/25/2020 at 5:53 PM, DatonKallandor said:

His cards are equivalent to the more efficient cards other heroes have at best, but he also has a smaller hand size on top of that. And his signature resource cards are awful (2 cost and hero only). Thor gets to perform as well as other heroes do when everything goes perfectly for him. He's got a lower floor and the same ceiling (with the exception of Strange, who towers above every other hero at the high end).

Strange has among the weakest damage cards for their cost and 0 AOE.

Magic Blast is a 4 card cost (3 cost, 1 discard reveal) for 5 damage base.

Using MotMA on CBoC is effectively 4 for 7, the same as Magic Blast if you discard the right card. CBoC directly is a fine return, but it’s only available intermittently without using the far less efficient MotMA, which is worse than the other heroes supers.

1 hour ago, Derrault said:

Strange has among the weakest damage cards for their cost and 0 AOE.

Magic Blast is a 4 card cost (3 cost, 1 discard reveal) for 5 damage base.

Using MotMA on CBoC is effectively 4 for 7, the same as Magic Blast if you discard the right card. CBoC directly is a fine return, but it’s only available intermittently without using the far less efficient MotMA, which is worse than the other heroes supers.

Can you please use the full card name once before using it's acronym, I have no idea what you just said.

8 hours ago, Dicewarrior said:

Can you please use the full card name once before using it's acronym, I have no idea what you just said.

AOE = Area of Effect (Not a card title, and I realize you might recognize this acronym from elsewhere but hey)
MotMA = Master of the Mystic Arts (Doctor Strange Event card)
CBoC = Crimson Bands of Cytorrak (Invocation card)

8 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

AOE = Area of Effect (Not a card title, and I realize you might recognize this acronym from elsewhere but hey)
MotMA = Master of the Mystic Arts (Doctor Strange Event card)
CBoC = Crimson Bands of Cytorrak (Invocation card)

Thank you.

What puts Strange over the top is MotMA, in fact I think it's abusive. You can do 14 damage and stun with MotMA + CBoC and 5 resources. Or draw 6 cards with Winds of Watoomb. Or even more of both if you have multiple MotMAs or draw in to them.

What makes MotMA abusive is that Strange doesn't need to Exhaust to play it. You could potentially get 3 MotMAs off in one turn. I think it should either Exhaust him, or be limited to one per round.

On 7/26/2020 at 1:54 AM, Deadwolf said:

God of Thunder ranks amongst the best resource generation cards in the game, competing only with resource generators from the S tier heroes (Super Soldier Serum and Eye of Agamotto). I've played Thor a lot, the number of times where it being hero only has made a difference is very low.

I disagree...

Spidey - has a straight up resource or card most turns (if not both) and reasonable 3-for-2s

Capt Marvel - has triple energy cards plus a free card in AE mode, and a 2-for-1

Black Panther has trips and Golden city (probably the worst other than the unmentioned JenW)

Tony - has best of 3, plus pepper

Cappy - has Super Serum, plus the apartment, and a smaller deck thanks to cantripping Fearless determination

Ms Marvel - Probably the best of breed, She has exceptional draw with 2 Personas, Polymer Suit, AE ability, and in Hero mode can exhaust for a resource on most turns

Widow - has AE draw, safehouse, and Gauntlet all cheaper.

Dr. Strange Hero mode can essentially exhaust to play a card for one cheaper, Sanctum Sanctorum is another AE card draw, Eye of Agamatto is equivalent, and at the moment Sorcerer Supreme is a 16th hero card.

53 minutes ago, Dicewarrior said:

What makes MotMA abusive is that Strange doesn't need to Exhaust to play it. You could potentially get 3 MotMAs off in one turn. I think it should either Exhaust him, or be limited to one per round.

Not to say anything of his power level, but there are only two copies of MotMA in his deck. So unless your deck is incredibly thin or you play one, draw the last of your deck, and it gets shuffled to the top of your new deck before drawing more cards, there's not a way to play it more than twice in one turn.

On 7/26/2020 at 9:04 AM, Jonathan4290 said:

When everything goes perfectly for Thor he is rocking a hand of 9 in hero form ( base 4 + Asgard 1 + engaging minions 4) and has access to 2 resource

Also, Thor's ability gets better and better the higher difficulty you play at as you draw more encounter cards.

Dot9 essentially reads discard 1 card to draw 2 cards then pray the 1 extra card you netted deals with the minion encounter you accelerated, and further more if you double up on any of the 1-for-2 aspect cards, they stop working.

Thor's villain phase power gets more consistent not necessarily better with more encounter cards

13 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

Not to say anything of his power level, but there are only two copies of MotMA in his deck. So unless your deck is incredibly thin or you play one, draw the last of your deck, and it gets shuffled to the top of your new deck before drawing more cards, there's not a way to play it more than twice in one turn.

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