Hi everyone!

This is a bit of a different sort of a request. I'm not looking for advice on tuning a list.

I've been developing a Sato list for some time now and I'm looking for opportunities to test it against whatever I can. My main opponent is.....myself , playing on vassal as there aren't many people in my area who play. Plus having kids and all that.

To tune this list I've often looked through these forums for various 'representative' lists to trial it against. The big problem with this is that just knowing what is in the opposing list is only half the battle. Unless I know how they're intended to be flown, what each element in the list is for, etc, then it takes me several battles before I figure out how they work and I don't really learn much in the mean time on how to combat it.

It's my dream to one day compete in tournaments. And eventually, one day, to win Worlds with Sato (joking)

So here's where you come in. What I want to do is I'll post my list here. Then I want you to post up a tournament list that you either have used or are going to use. Then I want you to explain to me how it is you would (attempt to) beat my list.

Please include stuff like:

- obstacle placement (if relevant)

- whether you would take first or second player if you had the bid and why you would.

- what your different strategies would be if you didn't have the bid and got given either first or second player.

- Deployment.

- What you'd be aiming to do in the first 2 turns.

Don't include what objectives your list has just so I can get a feel for guessing whether taking first would be a major disadvantage to me.

Now obviously my deployments and obstacle layout may have a major impact upon your own decisions. If this is the case, tell me what you can about what decisions you'd make, then pass the buck back to me. I'll respond with what I'd do and we can back and forth it till deployment is complete.

Thanks in advance to everyone!

And if I ever win a tournament with this Sato fleet, I'll happily share bragging rights with everyone who helped here.

Here's the list

Resonance of Fortitude

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 398/400

Commander: Commander Sato

[ flagship ] MC80 Command Cruiser (106 points)
- Commander Sato ( 32 points)
- Expert Shield Tech ( 5 points)
- Engine Techs ( 8 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- Quad Battery Turrets ( 5 points)
- Heavy Ion Emplacements ( 9 points)
= 172 total ship cost

MC75 Ordnance Cruiser (100 points)
- Walex Blissex ( 5 points)
- Ordnance Experts ( 4 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)
- Wide-Area Barrage ( 2 points)
= 123 total ship cost

1 Gold Squadron ( 12 points)
1 Hera Syndulla ( 28 points)
1 Shara Bey ( 17 points)
1 Rogue Squadron ( 14 points)
2 YT-2400s ( 32 points)
= 103 total squadron cost

This is a really cool idea! Let me know if you'd like to play a couple games on Vassal, I'm happy to fly just about anything!

Here's my go-to tournament list:

Name: Squadzilla, Queen of the Bombers
Faction: Imperial
Commander: Admiral Sloane

ISD Kuat Refit (112)
• Admiral Sloane (24)
• Governor Pryce (7)
• Boarding Troopers (3)
• Electronic Countermeasures (7)
• Leading Shots (4)
• Expanded Launchers (13)
• Avenger (5)
= 175 Points

Quasar Fire I (54)
• Hondo Ohnaka (2)
• Flight Controllers (6)
• Boosted Comms (4)
• Expanded Hangar Bay (5)
• Squall (3)
= 74 Points

Squadrons:
• Valen Rudor (13)
• Colonel Jendon (20)
• Maarek Stele (21)
• Ciena Ree (17)
• Dengar (20)
• Howlrunner (16)
• Mauler Mithel (15)
• Saber Squadron (12)
= 134 Points

Total Points: 383

Now, to strategy. I would take first for two reasons: I'm bidding for it, and your list looks likely to include a squadron-oriented objective I can leverage (definitely not whatever nasty red is included.) This list is built poorly for second player, but would probably attempt to win the squadron game and disengage in such an event. Alternatively, this list is one of the few that the Kuat could wait out, if the squadrons are kept at bay/killed quickly. Pryce would have no point as second player and would not be used.

Obstacle placement isn't of the utmost concern to me with few ships; it mainly becomes about trying to make obstruction uncomfortable for those rogues.

Having deployment advantage, I'd definitely place the ISD last, at a high speed; the Quasar would be in a bad spot as a result, but keeping it alive is always tenuous in these matchups.

With a disadvantage in raw firepower, the ISD must angle to catch and kill either one enemy ship, or ideally each in succession; in this case, the target is probably the Ordnance Cruiser, since a lucky roll will one-shot it and it also wants to get close with Sato being unreliable. Unfortunately, the Command cruiser is good at slipping away.

A turn one alpha strike on rogues is often impractical (though caution when deploying is still required.) Turn 2 is much likelier, and Ciena, Soontir, Howl, Mauler, Jendon and the Interceptor would probably be used for it; the ISD would also attempt to close on the MC75 via Pryce, bombing with Rhymer if possible and sending Maarek where he's needed most.

Why don’t you play Vassal games against other players? I don’t have Vassal, but I thought that was kind of the point of the program.

On 3/15/2020 at 8:21 AM, Cpt ObVus said:

Why don’t you play Vassal games against other players? I don’t have Vassal, but I thought that was kind of the point of the program.

That’s a fair question.

I guess there’s a few reasons.

1) My computer only has a baby processor, so doesn’t handle Vassal very well. While I’m happy to sometimes wait 20 seconds to adjust a ship’s shields by a point or three, it’s not something I’d want to inflict on someone else. And don’t even get me started on ship movement. I’ve gotten used to the idea that I mostly have to do it manually.

2) I’m not sure how my internet connection would handle it. I’m only on mobile wireless broadband and phone connection out my way isn’t 100%.

3) Between kids and living in Australia, finding time when I’d definitely be able to play, being certain of it in advance and having it line up with other Vassal players is difficult.

All that said, I’ve never actually tried. Maybe if I took the plunge, I’d find out that it is possible.

I’d have to unlearn all of my single player shortcut habits I’ve built up though.

On 3/14/2020 at 9:24 AM, The Jabbawookie said:

This is a really cool idea! Let me know if you'd like to play a couple games on Vassal, I'm happy to fly just about anything!

Here's my go-to tournament list:

Name: Squadzilla, Queen of the Bombers
Faction: Imperial
Commander: Admiral Sloane

ISD Kuat Refit (112)
• Admiral Sloane (24)
• Governor Pryce (7)
• Boarding Troopers (3)
• Electronic Countermeasures (7)
• Leading Shots (4)
• Expanded Launchers (13)
• Avenger (5)
= 175 Points

Quasar Fire I (54)
• Hondo Ohnaka (2)
• Flight Controllers (6)
• Boosted Comms (4)
• Expanded Hangar Bay (5)
• Squall (3)
= 74 Points

Squadrons:
• Valen Rudor (13)
• Colonel Jendon (20)
• Maarek Stele (21)
• Ciena Ree (17)
• Dengar (20)
• Howlrunner (16)
• Mauler Mithel (15)
• Saber Squadron (12)
= 134 Points

Total Points: 383

Now, to strategy. I would take first for two reasons: I'm bidding for it, and your list looks likely to include a squadron-oriented objective I can leverage (definitely not whatever nasty red is included.) This list is built poorly for second player, but would probably attempt to win the squadron game and disengage in such an event. Alternatively, this list is one of the few that the Kuat could wait out, if the squadrons are kept at bay/killed quickly. Pryce would have no point as second player and would not be used.

Obstacle placement isn't of the utmost concern to me with few ships; it mainly becomes about trying to make obstruction uncomfortable for those rogues.

Having deployment advantage, I'd definitely place the ISD last, at a high speed; the Quasar would be in a bad spot as a result, but keeping it alive is always tenuous in these matchups.

With a disadvantage in raw firepower, the ISD must angle to catch and kill either one enemy ship, or ideally each in succession; in this case, the target is probably the Ordnance Cruiser, since a lucky roll will one-shot it and it also wants to get close with Sato being unreliable. Unfortunately, the Command cruiser is good at slipping away.

A turn one alpha strike on rogues is often impractical (though caution when deploying is still required.) Turn 2 is much likelier, and Ciena, Soontir, Howl, Mauler, Jendon and the Interceptor would probably be used for it; the ISD would also attempt to close on the MC75 via Pryce, bombing with Rhymer if possible and sending Maarek where he's needed most.

First up, thank you! This is exactly what I’m after!

I look at this list and I think ‘How do I beat that ?!?’

I can see exactly why this is your go to list. It’ll never lose a squad war, has meaningful things to do with you squads once there are no more enemy squads and has the ability take out at least the most significant ship in the enemy fleet before legging it. While it won’t necessarily 10-1 every opponent it meets, it’ll come out ahead on points more often than not.

From my own point of view what I see is an unwinnable squad war and in the ship to ship fight my defence tokens quickly becoming useless. Which is worrying given how dependent I am on them.

Funnily enough, earlier versions of my list could neutralise the squad side of things and at least potentially force a 6-5, maybe do a little better.

A couple of questions for you:

Does Hondo have a particular role in this fleet? I figure he’s to allow an early 6 squad alpha strike?

What do you mean by ‘it mainly becomes about trying to make obstruction uncomfortable for those rogues’?

On 3/14/2020 at 9:24 AM, The Jabbawookie said:

Squadrons:
• Valen Rudor (13)
• Colonel Jendon (20)
• Maarek Stele (21)
• Ciena Ree (17)
• Dengar (20)
• Howlrunner (16)
• Mauler Mithel (15)
• Saber Squadron (12)
= 134 Points

Total Points: 383

bombing with Rhymer if possible and sending Maarek where he's needed most.

Major Rhymer?

I’ve got some other stuff to ask you as well, but it’s probably best if I send those through by PM so as not to spoil things too much on this thread.

I'll be on this week if you fancy a game, hmu on vassal or discord (same name)

8 hours ago, Flengin said:

Does Hondo have a particular role in this fleet? I figure he’s to allow an early 6 squad alpha strike?

If someone deploys squads too far forwards, that’s certainly a use for it. I don’t plan for that; instead it grants a speed change for both ships while still being able to trigger Boarding Troopers and push 7 of 8 squadrons. The alpha strike token is then banked naturally. It’s also nice against SSDs, which need to die at the top of round 4. Dropping Squall to 0 to stay out of range round 1 can make the difference.

Either way, my opponent will be getting repair and confire tokens in normal matchups.

8 hours ago, Flengin said:

What do you mean by ‘it mainly becomes about trying to make obstruction uncomfortable for those rogues’?

By turning asteroids lengthwise and staggering depth of some obstacles/putting them into strike range I can make it a minor annoyance to deploy a squadron ball from a single ship while letting them park near/in obstacles. Not a game changer by any stretch of imagination, and there are ways around it.

8 hours ago, Flengin said:

Major Rhymer?

A well built SSD tears the squads apart like tissue paper. Rhymer and the Kuat are both specific answers to the matchup. Expanded Launchers because the extra dice can matter (also true for Starhawks, depending on how many accuracies are rolled by the squads.)

Losing Dengar hurts, but the bombing damage is a tiny bit higher and a 32 dice alpha with Mauler splash is my consolation.