2 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Just need more detail. I value table experience.

Okay, sorry for being rude.

2 minutes ago, Wazat said:

Okay, sorry for being rude.

you ain't rude. thanks for the insight.

Personally i love flying Fel with swarm tactics, and turr. Allowing turr to go head on against higher int ships. Makes him slightly less of a risk

Even in first edition Alpha Sq. Interceptors were fantastic in Epic. I launched them from the Gozanti, which back then effectively meant they moved at PS 10, and they could get some great shots early on out of harm's way. I would use the Gozanti to buff them with focus and evade tokens so that when one of them was attacked, it was as durable as Soontir Fel.

Those days are past, but the increased versatility of generics, combined with their cheaper price and the advent of the wing mechanic makes TIE interceptors a real joy to fly in Epic. Note: do not be afraid to drop out of the wing to pincer or block in unexpected ways.

7 hours ago, Rickwilljames said:

Personally i love flying Fel with swarm tactics, and turr. Allowing turr to go head on against higher int ships. Makes him slightly less of a risk

You can keep them that close for swarm tactics to trigger multiple times?

1 hour ago, pakirby said:

You can keep them that close for swarm tactics to trigger multiple times?

I mean not every round, but usually around 2 or 3 just pin the two on the same target have fel behind them and turr in front.

Its definitely not flawless youre right. Just fun

So my buddy just bought the Imperial Aces 1.0 pack, with pilots like Kir Canos & Carnor Jax, Lt. Lorrir... looking at the Imp Conversion Kit, I didn’t see those guys listed as having 2.0 versions. Have they really not updated those cards? And does this mean we’re gonna need to buy a third Interceptor to get pilots for those two?

I would think the Conversion Kit should cover all the old cards. Feels shifty that it doesn’t.

28 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

So my buddy just bought the Imperial Aces 1.0 pack, with pilots like Kir Canos & Carnor Jax, Lt. Lorrir... looking at the Imp Conversion Kit, I didn’t see those guys listed as having 2.0 versions. Have they really not updated those cards? And does this mean we’re gonna need to buy a third Interceptor to get pilots for those two?

I would think the Conversion Kit should cover all the old cards. Feels shifty that it doesn’t.

Second Edition didn't convert certain characters, either because they presumably weren't needed in the meta, or they weren't canon anymore, or their abilities were complicated to balance, etc.

Some pilots just changed names: Keyan Farlander became Ten Numb (with some tweaks to its wording and the base rules that govern it), and Ten's old ability ceased to be. I think someone told me Keyan isn't canon anymore so we're not sure whether to expect him.

Other pilots like Fel's Wrath didn't get converted for whatever reason. I mention Fel's Wrath with glee because in first edition he was widely reviled as one of the worst pilots in the game, and for a long time the 2nd edition meme was that he was the best in the game and it was outrageous he didn't get converted. 2.0 wasn't whole without him.

FFG's goal in converting the cards wasn't to get every named pilot transferred over. Rather, they wanted to sharply revamp the rules, and they brought in pilots that created a solid game together with a relatively clean meta. Each pilot they add also adds a testing and balancing burden, so it made sense to start without everyone. Fel's Wrath tragically didn't make the cut because he wasn't really necessary for the meta of the game, despite being necessary for the game's heart. ♥️ However this does leave room for him and others to be added later with pilot-only Reinforcement Packs like Hotshots & Aces , though it's up in the air when/if we'll see 'em. My suspicion is FFG does grant some favor to popular ships & pilots, or to ships that are flagging in the meta and need some extra help on top of a points/slots adjustment.

So maybe we'll see them with appropriate adjustments to their abilities, or maybe not. The less canon the character, the less likely. But new stuff is showing up in the series all the time, and that's a good way to recanonize pilots.

IMO, Kir Kanos' ability is neato, but likely too powerful for second edition's meta. That kind of "add a free result" ability is uncommon and usually requires jumping through some hoops (see Fearless); evades are very accessible to TIE Interceptors. His ability would likely be adjusted somewhat.

Carnor's ability I remember well for its power and I could see it being neat in 2E, with some adjustment. We have a few dice-mod-muting or token-muting/stealing/removing abilities in the game, e.g. Padme, Old Teroch, Hotshot Gunner, etc. But the ability as it is will almost certainly see adjustment and refinement.

And of course, Fel's Wrath's ability is just too powerful for 2e's meta to handle. He'll have to be completely nerfed, assuming FFG dares add him at all.

24 minutes ago, Wazat said:

Second Edition didn't convert certain characters, either because they presumably weren't needed in the meta, or they weren't canon anymore, or their abilities were complicated to balance, etc...

Yeah, that all makes sense. It just sucks that my friend happened to grab a set that has exactly zero pilots converted to 2.0. You’d think they could have found SOMEONE in the pack to bring over.

Ah well, I guess it’s either an Imperial Conversion Kit, or a 2.0 Interceptor that we’ll need now, to give us some usable ship cards. Not the end of the world, as I’m looking to get a Lambda Shuttle and some TIE Bombers eventually, and we’ll need a Kit for those. And hey, our Interceptors will have some bitchin’ paint jobs!

3 hours ago, Rickwilljames said:

I mean not every round, but usually around 2 or 3 just pin the two on the same target have fel behind them and turr in front.

Its definitely not flawless youre right. Just fun

huh. Interesting.

1 hour ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Yeah, that all makes sense. It just sucks that my friend happened to grab a set that has exactly zero pilots converted to 2.0. You’d think they could have found SOMEONE in the pack to bring over.

Ah well, I guess it’s either an Imperial Conversion Kit, or a 2.0 Interceptor that we’ll need now, to give us some usable ship cards. Not the end of the world, as I’m looking to get a Lambda Shuttle and some TIE Bombers eventually, and we’ll need a Kit for those. And hey, our Interceptors will have some bitchin’ paint jobs!

Definitely invest in the conversion kit. Well worth it.

On 3/16/2020 at 2:28 AM, Cpt ObVus said:

So my buddy just bought the Imperial Aces 1.0 pack, with pilots like Kir Canos & Carnor Jax, Lt. Lorrir... looking at the Imp Conversion Kit, I didn’t see those guys listed as having 2.0 versions. Have they really not updated those cards? And does this mean we’re gonna need to buy a third Interceptor to get pilots for those two?

I would think the Conversion Kit should cover all the old cards. Feels shifty that it doesn’t.

It's true, the best Imp Pilot is Soontir, but Carnot Jax was the best Squint to play in a squad, with or without Soontir.

We all lament the Mouse deciding Jax wasn't cannon, what an idiot.

19 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

It's true, the best Imp Pilot is Soontir, but Carnot Jax was the best Squint to play in a squad, with or without Soontir.

We all lament the Mouse deciding Jax wasn't cannon, what an idiot.

I don’t think Disney deciding what is or isn’t canon anymore has anything to do with it. Dengar’s Punishing One is one of many ships that aren’t canon and made the jump to 2.0.

If a card or character didn’t make it, it must have more to do with the game designers than Disney, because they clearly are allowed to put Legends stuff into the game.

22 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

I don’t think Disney deciding what is or isn’t canon anymore has anything to do with it. Dengar’s Punishing One is one of many ships that aren’t canon and made the jump to 2.0.

If a card or character didn’t make it, it must have more to do with the game designers than Disney, because they clearly are allowed to put Legends stuff into the game.

That's just what those in the game that are glad Jax isn't in the game keep saying. personally, I have no idea why the fifth best (at the very least) Imp pilot didn't make the jump to 2.0. All the other factions pretty much held court... I can't help but to say it, "dumb mouse."

1. It's a bit disappointing that there are only two Interceptors and two Rebel A-Wings. My fingers are crossed that these two ships see some attention whenever the next set like "Hotshots and Aces" comes out.

2. It isn't "Legends" vs "New Canon" since they could easily have done Vult Skerris and Ceina Ree and so forth.

3. I still don't want to see Carnor Jax' ability come back. I don't think an always-on bubble, with this powerful of an impact, working on every ship, for every attack, and for every defense, should exist in 2e.

29 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

3. I still don't want to see Carnor Jax' ability come back. I don't think an always-on bubble, with this powerful of an impact, working on every ship, for every attack, and for every defense, should exist in 2e.

But what if, and hear me out, Carnor had a Ysalimari frame in his squint. So his ability becomes a range 1 bubble where Force charges cannot be spent. (edit: or recovered)

9 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

But what if, and hear me out, Carnor had a Ysalimari frame in his squint. So his ability becomes a range 1 bubble where Force charges cannot be spent.

I actually think this would be a hilarious concept for an illicit/cargo type slot item. The only reason illicit doesn’t work is it denies empire and first order a real way to bring it along. Cargo is only on huge ships though.

5 hours ago, clanofwolves said:

That's just what those in the game that are glad Jax isn't in the game keep saying. personally, I have no idea why the fifth best (at the very least) Imp pilot didn't make the jump to 2.0. All the other factions pretty much held court... I can't help but to say it, "dumb mouse."

But... Disney had nothing to do with it... ?

So I mean, hate on Disney if you want to, but they clearly aren’t the ones stopping Jax from entering 2.0.

In fact, I’m actually very surprised at the amount of Legends content Disney has allowed in X-Wing and Armada. Characters like Corran Horn, Jan Ors, Kyle Katarn, and Carnor Jax would never have been printed in the first place (nor would we have Legends continuity ships like the Outrider, E-Wings, StarVipers... all sorts of stuff.

I guess what I’m saying is, if you don’t like Disney, just say you don’t like Disney. But don’t blame them for things they aren’t responsible for!

53 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

I guess what I’m saying is, if you don’t like Disney, just say you don’t like Disney. But don’t blame them for things they aren’t responsible for!

Disney is the straw man whipping boy for all things in this forum (except for ffg shipping delays). Some new ship too good? The Mouse wanted to make people buy THEIR era’s things not the old GCW or EU. Why is X not around? The Mouse won’t let them.

I have even been guilty of it before (working on that).

Truth is, before Disney canon really took off there was a need for pilots, so ffg borrowed from the EU quite heavily. And when that failed, they started drawing from their own RPGs and other games’ material.

Disney just has so much new canon stuff out there ffg could go with that first where applicable during 2.0 development. Like the Bwing example: Keyan Farlander (rebel aces) was the protagonist of the original xwing PC game and considered the other survivor of Yavin besides Luke and Wedge, until Disney wrote a story to contradict. Marek Stele is still around because Disney didn’t give us more x1 pilots (Marek is the protagonist of the old PC game Tie Fighter)

8 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:

I actually think this would be a hilarious concept for an illicit/cargo type slot item. The only reason illicit doesn’t work is it denies empire and first order a real way to bring it along. Cargo is only on huge ships though.

Look again, closely, at the Xi shuttle preview. There is a rigged cargo chute. Apparently some FO lover at FFG has decided that even a military organisation bent on law and order needs to have Illicits (originally Scum only), oh so thematic.

24 minutes ago, Managarmr said:

Look again, closely, at the Xi shuttle preview. There is a rigged cargo chute. Apparently some FO lover at FFG has decided that even a military organisation bent on law and order needs to have Illicits (originally Scum only), oh so thematic.

It depends, if the illicit slot is just for Agent Terex it is actually very thematic (he's from the Poe Dameron comics). I doubt Commander Malarus or the courier will have access to the illicit slot. I can't make out a name on the other pilot so I don't know about that one.

1 hour ago, Managarmr said:

Look again, closely, at the Xi shuttle preview. There is a rigged cargo chute. Apparently some FO lover at FFG has decided that even a military organisation bent on law and order needs to have Illicits (originally Scum only), oh so thematic.

Well, when you consider that the FO started as an outlaw organization to the New Republic regime... an Illicit Upgrade slot actually makes perfect sense.

The only places it really wouldn’t fit, thematically, are on Galactic Republic and Galactic Empire ships.

14 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

3. I still don't want to see Carnor Jax' ability come back. I don't think an always-on bubble, with this powerful of an impact, working on every ship, for every attack, and for every defense, should exist in 2e.

I agree with this. Shutting down the most common pilot action and most common token is not something the game needs. Especially with two re-position actions at high initiative. This is among the things that they got right in 2nd Edition.

10 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

But... Disney had nothing to do with it... ?

So I mean, hate on Disney if you want to, but they clearly aren’t the ones stopping Jax from entering 2.0.

In fact, I’m actually very surprised at the amount of Legends content Disney has allowed in X-Wing and Armada. Characters like Corran Horn, Jan Ors, Kyle Katarn, and Carnor Jax would never have been printed in the first place (nor would we have Legends continuity ships like the Outrider, E-Wings, StarVipers... all sorts of stuff.

I guess what I’m saying is, if you don’t like Disney, just say you don’t like Disney. But don’t blame them for things they aren’t responsible for!

I mostly agree with you but I'm pretty sure that Iden Versio isn't in everything because the fans are clamoring for her to be in everything. And we shouldn't pretend that the licensor has no say and no interest in what is in these games. I'm pretty sure it was Disney behind bringing The Force to X-wing. There likely is a tendency to over-estimate how fine-toothed a comb Disney applies to what gets approved. Neither though should we pretend they pay no attention or make no direction at all with regards to these things.

And given how in my opinion the movies and such have been so clearly been driven by focus-grouping and market research sorts of things I expect that at least some attention is being paid to games like these looking for ideas that are sticking/have stuck with fans. It wasn't just the creators who caused Thrawn to appear in "Rebels."

Jax being left out is likely as noted more about his ability being correctly left out of 2nd Edition. And as noted if his ability was desired they have a number of ways to put it in the game with or without the character of Jax.

53 minutes ago, Frimmel said:

I mostly agree with you but I'm pretty sure that Iden Versio isn't in everything because the fans are clamoring for her to be in everything. And we shouldn't pretend that the licensor has no say and no interest in what is in these games. I'm pretty sure it was Disney behind bringing The Force to X-wing. There likely is a tendency to over-estimate how fine-toothed a comb Disney applies to what gets approved. Neither though should we pretend they pay no attention or make no direction at all with regards to these things.

And given how in my opinion the movies and such have been so clearly been driven by focus-grouping and market research sorts of things I expect that at least some attention is being paid to games like these looking for ideas that are sticking/have stuck with fans. It wasn't just the creators who caused Thrawn to appear in "Rebels."

Jax being left out is likely as noted more about his ability being correctly left out of 2nd Edition. And as noted if his ability was desired they have a number of ways to put it in the game with or without the character of Jax.

I mean, the amount of cross-marketing that happens with characters like Iden Versio is not new, nor unique to Disney. I’m old enough to remember when, in the 90’s, they released the Shadows of the Empire video game/novel/action figures/comic book/mouthwash/breakfast cereal/anti-itch powder/disinfectant spray... Dash Rendar and Prince Xizor were everywhere, despite the fact that Dash (The UnSolo!) was an unlikable, clichéd toolbox, whose ship was a Millennium Falcon knock-off, and Xizor’s main super power was that... he smelled good (no, seriously, his pheromones caused people to find him charming. This made him the third-most-powerful figure in the Empire, a rival to Darth Vader). The whole story was sucky fan service (turns out Dash Rendar was at Hoth! Dash Rendar was present when “many Bothans died!” Dash Rendar once roomed with Chewie’s cousin! Dash Rendar had a toke at a Pearl Jam concert with Yoda’s sister in college!), but it made for a pretty okay game. If you’d just come back from a Pearl Jam concert, and needed to cool out for a bit.

At least Versio comes with a...decent... story. Still bugs me that they gave us the opportunity to play a bad guy in the game, then had her defect to the Alliance about two missions in, but I digress.

ANYway, I’m pretty sure that Thrawn came back to the canon in Rebels because Dave Filoni likes Thrawn almost as much as he likes silly cowboy hats. Filoni was also in charge of Clone Wars, which successfully made every character in Star Wars look like they were wearing a fake plastic beard from a cheap Halloween costume. Filoni also somehow managed to direct the only episode of the Mandalorian that sucked (Episode 4, check it out, it’s unbearable fan service). But Filoni was pretty much anointed by Lucas, and Clone Wars was highly profitable, despite the horrid, jerky animation, bad writing (Darth Maul got cut in half and thrown into a bottomless pit... he’s okay, folks! And he has legs now!), terrible voice acting, weird faces and plastic hair... and he survived into the Disney era. So what Filoni wants, Filoni gets.

To be honest, I actually doubt that Disney is all that involved with who or what goes into X-Wing. Star Wars is a multibillion-dollar franchise, owned by a company with multiple multibillion-dollar franchises. FFG’s contribution to it is *barely noticeable*. Honestly, I think Versio is in the game mostly because her ship was originally concepted by an FFG designer, it made it into the canon and a major video game release (probably because some dude at EA had a brother who played X-Wing and suggested the Raider), and that probably felt pretty cool for that designer, and for FFG, and they decided to run with it a bit. I’m sure Disney was fine with it. I’m equally sure they had zero concern with her impact on X-Wing OR Armada.

As for “market research” and “focus grouping” the new films: if they had let focus groups and market research be much of a factor, The Last Jedi would not have been nearly so divisive. Solo would have been a runaway hit. Rise of Skywalker would have left critics as impressed as (most of) the fans. Disney is not a company that doesn’t know how to make hit movies. The Marvel films just pulled off a frankly unbelievable feat of storytelling... something like 25 films telling one cohesive story... of which probably 20 were smash hit blockbusters, and several of which broke earnings records.

If they’d been focus-grouping The Last Jedi, they certainly wouldn’t have made the “mistake” of leaving all the 30- and 40-something white guys who make up the bulk of Star Wars fandom feeling uncomfortable because their heroes (all the white guys in the film) were screwing up and making poor choices throughout, leaving them with nobody to identify with, and nobody to really root for, except a woman thirty years older than them, and a girl fifteen years younger. A good focus group would have had them sending Luke in to blow away hordes of Stormtroopers with anime-sized Force waves, The Force Unleashed III-style. Instead, they showed us that heroes are fallible, and it unsettled people, and lacking the ability to self-reflect and articulate this, people just started complaining about Disney wrecking their childhoods.

I’m glad Carnor Jax is gone, he seems like he would have been lame to play against.