More noob inquiries

By Cpt ObVus, in X-Wing

10 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Ok, so as I’m reading this, it seems that the absolute maximum number of attacks that any one ship could launch in a turn is two, correct? Are there any cards that can allow more?

Also, are devices, like the various Bombs, counted as attacks?

Correct, two attacks is the maximum. There is no way to circumvent this. One normal attack and (at most) one bonus attack.

Note: that it's often statistically better to spend effort on making one highly modified attack (i.e. performing an attack with focus and a lock on the defender) than it is to perform two attacks with few modifications. Bonus attacks are a lot of fun, but the best way to spend points is generally on getting your ships more dice modifications than on more attacks.

Devices and other sources of damage (such as deadman's switch, dengar gunner, or Vader crew) are not counted as attacks. Only effects using the word "attack" are attacks. You can drop a maximum of one device in the systems phase.

3 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Ok, so as I’m reading this, it seems that the absolute maximum number of attacks that any one ship could launch in a turn is two, correct? Are there any cards that can allow more?

In normal vanilla deathmatch, no.

If you explore Epic format and field/encounter Huge ships (GR75, CR90, Raider, Gozanti, C-Roc), then on these (and only these) are cards allowing more than one bonus attack (otherwise the Huges would be chanceless).

Ok, next round of questions...

1) The “Advanced Maneuvers,” that is, Tallon Roll, Koiogan Turn, and... I think it’s Segnir’s Loop, or something? I get those. And then there’s the “Full Stop” maneuver (allowed by only one card I’ve encountered so far, the Inertial Dampers). The book also talks briefly about another set of maneuvers, the reverse, and reverse bank... what ship/upgrade can do those? And are there any other Advanced Maneuvers?

2) What is the significance of Han Solo’s text stating that his ability does not count as a reroll? Is there a limit to the number of times one can reroll a die/some dice per attack/defense? In Armada, you can use as many die reroll mechanics as you have access to; for example, if you have Director Krennic, Darth Vader, and a Concentrate Fire token, you might reroll some or all of a ship’s attack dice 3 times or more.

3) I’ve heard some people use the phrase “double-modded” when talking about an attack. What is this?

Edited by Cpt ObVus
38 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Ok, next round of questions...

1) The “Advanced Maneuvers,” that is, Tallon Roll, Koiogan Turn, and... I think it’s Segnir’s Loop, or something? I get those. And then there’s the “Full Stop” maneuver (allowed by only one card I’ve encountered so far, the Inertial Dampers). The book also talks briefly about another set of maneuvers, the reverse, and reverse bank... what ship/upgrade can do those? And are there any other Advanced Maneuvers?

2) What is the significance of Han Solo’s text stating that his ability does not count as a reroll? Is there a limit to the number of times one can reroll a die/some dice per attack/defense? In Armada, you can use as many die reroll mechanics as you have access to; for example, if you have Director Krennic, Darth Vader, and a Concentrate Fire token, you might reroll some or all of a ship’s attack dice 3 times or more.

3) I’ve heard some people use the phrase “double-modded” when talking about an attack. What is this?

1) K-Turn, T-Roll, S-Loop, Stationery, Reverse straight, Reverse bank. Rule's reference page 4.

Some ships can stop naturally (stationary) E.g. Auzituck, U-Wing, Hwk, Lambda, Reaper, Punisher, G1A, Escape Craft, YV666, MG100, Resistance Transport.

Or you use the card, as you said.

Some ships can reverse: e.g. Quadjumper, Resistance Transport.

2) Yes, normally only once. Page 10.

3) Most normal case: Target Lock, and then either calculate, focus, or force.

Or special cases like certain pilot abilities, cards like fearless, advanced optics etc. preceeded or followed by other mods.

1 hour ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Ok, next round of questions...

1) The “Advanced Maneuvers,” that is, Tallon Roll, Koiogan Turn, and... I think it’s Segnir’s Loop, or something? I get those. And then there’s the “Full Stop” maneuver (allowed by only one card I’ve encountered so far, the Inertial Dampers). The book also talks briefly about another set of maneuvers, the reverse, and reverse bank... what ship/upgrade can do those? And are there any other Advanced Maneuvers?

2) What is the significance of Han Solo’s text stating that his ability does not count as a reroll? Is there a limit to the number of times one can reroll a die/some dice per attack/defense? In Armada, you can use as many die reroll mechanics as you have access to; for example, if you have Director Krennic, Darth Vader, and a Concentrate Fire token, you might reroll some or all of a ship’s attack dice 3 times or more.

3) I’ve heard some people use the phrase “double-modded” when talking about an attack. What is this?

1) "Basic maneuvers" are straights, banks, and turns. "Advanced maneuvers" are K-Turns, Tallon rolls and seignors loops. Full stops (zero-speed maneuvers) can be performed by a lot of slow shuttle-type ships (u-wing, lambda shuttle, and others). Reverse moves can be performed by the quadrijet transfer space tug, resistance transport and the sheathipede-class shuttle. Take a look at the squad builder online and you can see the dials of ships.

2) As Managarmr says, any die can only be rerolled once. Han allows you to reroll a die a second time. Note that Han's ability still counts as a dice modification, and so it is still prevented by game effects that prevent dice modifications.

3) "Double modded" attacks are attacks performed with two or more dice modifications, as Managarmr says. Generally, double modding will mean performing a reroll effect first and then performing an effect to convert focus results to hits. The gold standard here is target lock (spend to reroll all dice) followed by focus (spend to convert all focus results).

Please keep asking questions. At this rate it’s going to be come one of the best threads to forward to newbies to get an intermediate grasp of the game rules.

Ive give an example question: an attack is drawn so that the closest line goes through a rock and a gas cloud at range 3 against a decimator. How many green dice does it roll?

Also Yasb 2.0 is recommended to the utmost degree as a premier level list building tool. It’s certainly better than the official app. I haven’t tried the other 3rd party builders. So they may be good but yasb 2.0 is so extraordinarily good that I’ve never even wanted options.

19 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

Ive give an example question: an attack is drawn so that the closest line goes through a rock and a gas cloud at range 3 against a decimator. How many green dice does it roll?

Ooo, I'll answer this one!

An attack counts as obstructed if it crosses one or more obstacles. This means that the Decimator would get it's normal dice pool (....of nothing, it's an agility zero brick), one for being at range three, and then one for the attack having been obstructed. Once the dice have been rolled, as the attack was obstructed by a gas cloud, the defender can convert a blank result into an evade result.

21 hours ago, LUZ_TAK said:

Saw Renegades X-wings and U-wings have the illicit slot.

Yt-2400 too

1 hour ago, Vontoothskie said:

Yt-2400 too

Ah but does it cost more or less than a Warhammer 40k army? I'm thinking more.

Edited by Flurpy
7 minutes ago, Flurpy said:

Ah but does it cost more or less than a Warhammer 40k army? I'm thinking more.

It all depends if you want to buy all the Factions.

If you do, it will cost you a lot. But if you center yourself around 1-2 factions (particularly the new ones, First Order, Resistance, Separatyisits or Republic), it won't be really costly.

You can check also on E-Bay for X-wing ship lots. That can bring something interesting for the money invested.

1 minute ago, Silver_leader said:

It all depends if you want to buy all the Factions.

If you do, it will cost you a lot. But if you center yourself around 1-2 factions (particularly the new ones, First Order, Resistance, Separatyisits or Republic), it won't be really costly.

You can check also on E-Bay for X-wing ship lots. That can bring something interesting for the money invested.

Hmm. That doesn't sound true.

@Vontoothskie told us all kinds of warhammer40k armies are much cheaper than even a single X-Wing list let alone multiple factions. Surely @Vontoothskie wouldn't lie to us. Surely not.

Right @Vontoothskie ? (Yes I fully intend to do this every time you post)

And why derail a beginner's question thread?? Great job.....

1 hour ago, Flurpy said:

Ah but does it cost more or less than a Warhammer 40k army? I'm thinking more.

Points cost wise, if you include Outrider, the YT2400 might be more.

It hasn't been mentioned yet, I don't think, but there are two key rules documents that you should be using in order to learn the game. I think most people are assuming that you know about both.

The first is the Rulebook that's included with the Core Set. It contains basic rules for the contents of the Core Set and the general gameplay for when you start going beyond using the ships from the Core Set. It covers all of the major questions you've asked in terms of "Basic" and "Advanced" maneuvers, and what they are, as well as how Locks work, the missile icon (means Ordnance) on certain upgrades etc. This is all you'll likely need for your first few games.

However, there is a periodically-released document called the Rules Reference that you should also consult for more obscure terms or esoterica. It's a downloadable .pdf from FFG's website - here's the link:

https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/67/8a/678a909e-bd3b-4c21-9978-4218a253d07d/b_swzrulesreference_v110_-compressed.pdf

There are folks on these forums who quite helpfully post major changes, and there's an entire subtopic devoted to rules quibbles, but many of the edge cases you've mentioned are covered in that document. For example, Han's reroll ability is covered in the FAQs section of the Rules Reference.

1 hour ago, feltipern1 said:

It hasn't been mentioned yet, I don't think, but there are two key rules documents that you should be using in order to learn the game. I think most people are assuming that you know about both.

The first is the Rulebook that's included with the Core Set. It contains basic rules for the contents of the Core Set and the general gameplay for when you start going beyond using the ships from the Core Set. It covers all of the major questions you've asked in terms of "Basic" and "Advanced" maneuvers, and what they are, as well as how Locks work, the missile icon (means Ordnance) on certain upgrades etc. This is all you'll likely need for your first few games.

However, there is a periodically-released document called the Rules Reference that you should also consult for more obscure terms or esoterica. It's a downloadable .pdf from FFG's website - here's the link:

https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/67/8a/678a909e-bd3b-4c21-9978-4218a253d07d/b_swzrulesreference_v110_-compressed.pdf

There are folks on these forums who quite helpfully post major changes, and there's an entire subtopic devoted to rules quibbles, but many of the edge cases you've mentioned are covered in that document. For example, Han's reroll ability is covered in the FAQs section of the Rules Reference.

Aha, thank you. That’s exactly the sort of document I’m looking for (someone probably already linked it earlier, I just missed it).

I think I’m getting the game quite well; I’ve got a pretty natural comfort zone with complex rules. Unfortunately, that can make learning the basics of a game tough, as my brain wants to immediately jump straight into the complex interactions, when I’d probably be best off just playing a couple starter scenarios first.

The other wall I’ve been hitting is that my playgroup has been sort of busy lately, so I haven’t yet had the chance to put ships on the table. My most regular Armada partner’s coming over in an hour or two, though, and I’m gonna see if he’s got time for an X-Wing test flight after we’re done with the big ships.

Edited by Cpt ObVus

In addition to the Rules Reference, you may also want to check the official rulings thread here on the forums. It contains several specific rulings that aren't clear in the rules reference.

look up goldsquadron podcast on YouTube and you can watch some games - the commentary lets u know what is going on

Ok, how does an action “fail?”

1 hour ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Ok, how does an action “fail?”

An action fails when you cannot satisfy the requirements for performing it.

This most commonly occurs for boost and barrel roll actions. As an example, to perform a boost you select the template you wish to use (bank left, straight, bank right). You then place the template, and place the ship at the end of the template. If the template overlaps an obstacle (and you don't have an ability which allows you to ignore the obstacle), you cannot move, and the action is deemed to have failed.

If there was a cost associated with taking the action (for instance, a stress token), that cost is still paid.

EDIT: Aside from the reposition actions, you can fail Lock and Coordinate actions, but this is much more difficult. For a Lock to fail, you must have no objects within range three (so no hostile ships, friendly ships, or obstacles). For a Coordinate action to fail, you must have no friendly ships within range two. I'm fairly certain that a Jam action to fail, there must be no ships (friendly or hostile) within range one, but Jam is a very rarely performed action so I cannot say for certain.

Edited by AceDogbert
4 hours ago, AceDogbert said:

An action fails when you cannot satisfy the requirements for performing it.

This most commonly occurs for boost and barrel roll actions. As an example, to perform a boost you select the template you wish to use (bank left, straight, bank right). You then place the template, and place the ship at the end of the template. If the template overlaps an obstacle (and you don't have an ability which allows you to ignore the obstacle), you cannot move, and the action is deemed to have failed.

If there was a cost associated with taking the action (for instance, a stress token), that cost is still paid.

EDIT: Aside from the reposition actions, you can fail Lock and Coordinate actions, but this is much more difficult. For a Lock to fail, you must have no objects within range three (so no hostile ships, friendly ships, or obstacles). For a Coordinate action to fail, you must have no friendly ships within range two. I'm fairly certain that a Jam action to fail, there must be no ships (friendly or hostile) within range one, but Jam is a very rarely performed action so I cannot say for certain.

I thought the reposition actions would be partially completed?

16 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

I thought the reposition actions would be partially completed?

They cannot; either you can be placed in the end position (or one of the possible end positions for barrel rolls), or the action fails.

Arvel Crynyd is the sole exception to this rule (as far as I know). He can partially execute boost actions, resolving them as if they were a standard move.

27 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

I thought the reposition actions would be partially completed?

Nope, only way to partially complete movement is the actual maneuver revealed during the execute maneuver step (or the ship ability on the tie striker/reaper). Arvel is a unique pilot exception.

If you cannot completely land a barrel roll or boost you don’t move. Barrel roll however has 3 options for each side and if one of the three fits you fit (slight back, even, slight forward). You can try one, not fit, but try the others on the same side — ex barrel roll left back, fails. Can try to see if barrel roll left front fits. If it does, great! If no left barrel rolls fit, you don’t move and you fail an action

One extra big difference between Armada and X-wing you need to keep in mind is that with X-wing you are not allowed to pre measure everything. Only allowed to measure what you are actively doing at that time.

So for example measure range between ships only when you will attack with that ship or do a target lock action from a ship.

Ok. Getting more into the strategy of list building...

I have (for the Empire): a TIE Advanced x1, a TIE Striker, and three TIE Fighters. In trying to cobble a list together, and deciding I want to use Vader, I sort of came up with the following:

Vader/Striker/3TIEs

(67) Darth Vader [TIE Advanced x1]
(3) Brilliant Evasion
(6) Mag-Pulse Warheads
(3) Passive Sensors
Points: 79

(23) Obsidian Squadron Pilot [TIE/ln Fighter]
(3) Targeting Computer
Points: 26

(22) Academy Pilot [TIE/ln Fighter]
(3) Targeting Computer
Points: 25

(22) Academy Pilot [TIE/ln Fighter]
(3) Targeting Computer
Points: 25

(44) "Pure Sabacc" [TIE/sk Striker]
Points: 44

Total points: 199

So, we don’t need to workshop this too hard; I’m gonna take it over to the Squad-building forum for a good work-over. But what I’m mainly wondering is: are the non-unique TIEs going to be able to meaningfully contribute?

In Armada, there’s a sort of quality threshold that some ships don’t meet without certain upgrades; for example, you CAN put a naked CR90 into a list, but it’s not going to do much work. But put a set of Turbolaser Reroute Circuits on it, and you have a very competent harasser. So guess what I’m asking is: are those TIEs useful, or is two dice a sort of negligible attack in X-Wing?

6 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

But what I’m mainly wondering is: are the non-unique TIEs going to be able to meaningfully contribute?

Yes, but I’d drop the targeting computers and just have them focus. At such now initiative they will struggle to keep the target they have locked in arc.

fly the ties almost like a single ship in formation so they can focus fire, or come from multiple angles to create a kill box so no matter what at least some get shots off on one target.

2 dice can do a good amount of work in xwing, especially if they all shoot at the same ship.

Edited by ScummyRebel