I'm new to the game and frustrated with the rebels. I played against the Republic and the entire game his red saves negated 90% of my damage whereas his attacks wiped whole units even behind cover. His keywords popped up everywhere and nimble did nothing. I found myself just waiting for my hero and AT-RT activations so I could actually do damage and feel like I was playing. Is this how rebels feel even at high level play? I just want to feel like I can win instead of watching my opponent remove all my minis from the table.

I'm not sure what you want from us. Just read, play, and get better at the game. Also, keep in mind that there are plenty of people moaning about how the Republic "isn't a viable faction." "is unplayable," etc.

P.S. Please stop being a part of the Wild Exaggerators Club on here that likes to pretend that red dice block 90% of all damage. These people are just terrible at math and/or care more about how they "feel" the dice roll than how they actually do.

13 hours ago, Lord Abadeer said:

I'm new to the game

Welcome to the game!

13 hours ago, Lord Abadeer said:

I played against the Republic and the entire game his red saves negated 90% of my damage whereas his attacks wiped whole units even behind cover.

It takes a while to get used to each faction's identity and the dice rolls can seem quite staggered to new players, especially with small samples. Rebels are one of the hardest to play in my opinion because defensively they are hard to keep alive. High activation counts are typical to rebel lists, it allows them to delay the use of power units until threat from enemy units has diminished. My advice, when moving up into cover also try to cohesion minis so that LoS is completely blocked to 1 or 2 minis in the group, preventing him from 1-shotting a whole unit. Remember, the objectives matter more than straight kills, so if you can get him to waste shots on a unit he can't kill, while simultaneously advancing the objective, it can help in the long run.

29 minutes ago, arnoldrew said:

Please stop being a part of the Wild Exaggerators Club on here that likes to pretend that red dice block 90% of all damage. These people are just terrible at math and/or care more about how they "feel" the dice roll than how they actually do.

Dude, he's a new player. Don't be rude. For many the dice seem VERY swingy starting out. My first 3 rebel games I rolled LITERALLY 5 blocks between them. Dice work on averages, it can take a while to level out.

13 hours ago, Lord Abadeer said:

Is this how rebels feel even at high level play? I just want to feel like I can win instead of watching my opponent remove all my minis from the table.

Truthfully, no. As far as I understand the meta rebel lists are brutal combinations of high activation count and unit's with excellent action economy. They need to be played skillfully but they can be devastating.

Last list I saw in such a category looked something like this:

Leia
Sabine
5x rebel troopers
3x commando strike team snipers
2x TuanTuans

Welcome to Rebels.

There are some figures that can take a beating but you have to be careful in not leaving them exposed to too much.

Both Lukes, Sabine with their dodge action can be pretty sturdy, but if you shoot enough at them, they will fall. I've seen red dice fail, just not as much.

With Rebels, I've found I really don't want to attack so much. Maybe 1-2 per game and toward the end. The units are too frail as you've pointed out. You're better off dodging and moving into cover and hiding as you make your way up the field toward objectives. Each unit has a purpose. Troopers are mainly for this. Don't put a lot of points into them as they will probably die. Veterans can do a little better causing damage, but are still fairly frail. The only other thing I use my troopers for is to carry a repair droid or Medic droid sometimes.

Tauntauns, Luke and Sabine can cause damage and take some damage.

Most of the special forces are good at plinking off damage or hurting characters or finishing off a squad. They play the role of directing where the enemy will advance.

the main problem with Red Dice is they can be really 'hot' at the beginning of the game, if you're not careful, You'll lose all your figures before they start cooling off, and that's when it gets frustrating.

Self promotion

https://rebelsguide.home.blog/?fbclid=IwAR0pnf8tWzfZVI2_3H9ZTjGcztgT32VssZUHoAzcumZZ9K8SJ8i_Nnnmox8

Got some analysis and tactics article. Also tournament/battle reports.

Won our local prime in sweden with this rebel list

However rebels can have a very hard time in the current meta where critical and big dice pools can cut trough defence tokens and cover. However the rebels have really strong commanders/operatives and support choices so like your experience, your hero activations and units like at-rt will have to be the backbone of your offense

I can’t offer you much help as I don’t play Rebels, and above is definitely better advice than I could ever offer for them. What I can say is don’t get discouraged, you’re still learning. Bad rolls happen, I lost Rex in a single attack once because I rolled 5/6 red dice into blanks, and had a Jyn on the other side take almost no damage on whites.

What points level are you playing at? I’ve found the 500 point skirmish has been good for getting new players into the game so maybe see if your opponents will be willing to try that?

Above all tho, welcome to the community and hopefully you’ll have fun with it!

I would echo what others have said. Some keys to playing rebels:

1. Activations. Your units will die, so you need lots of activations.

2. Cover is key, as is placement in general. I always assume that I won't get a single save. This attitude in turn impacts my placement.

3. As much as possible, build full squads, at least for troopers. I've done better with 6 person trooper squads. It is much harder to one shot a unit of 6 troopers and really helps with controlling objectives. Many time I've had nothing but my unit leader left, which has then scored the objective.

4. Focus on objectives. I have a friendly rivalry with a player at my venue. He has never won a game against my rebels with his imperials. He always kills way more than I do, but I always have won because of objectives.

Also, even though you have nimble, don't let that determine what action you take. I take an aim more often than I take a dodge. Having less shoot back at you is just as good if not better than canceling a hit.

Generally speaking, Rebels can't compete in brute force and war of attrition with the other factions, so we have to focus more on objectives. When i shoot to Imperials, i look for the suppresions to make them lose actions, casualties is almost an unexpected bonus! Most of my victories, I end with very few miniatures on the table, but with the objectives completed.

Rebellions are built on hope...to make more victory points than your opponent.

This is a game of objectives, shooting your opponent is useful but essentially doesn't directly win you the game. If your Rebel Troopers are standing out in the open with no dodges and no covers , you will die. Even the most reliable save in the game is 4 sides out of 6.

Playing the game you will find you don't want to rely on defense dice saves to save you, red or white. You also don't want to any away from getting shot either, sometimes you want to sacrifice a unit (or 4 ) so that your other units can score the objectives. You can win this game and only have one rebel trooper left on the table (not likely but possible).

It's all about out positioning your opponent and your efficiency of actions. You can win the game by even forcing your opponent to spend time taking out a hero unit, while you have other units focus on the objectives. While it can be disastrous losing your commander of the commander takes out more points in the process or you score more points as a result , then they did their job.

As far as general playstyles go:

Empire is all about sitting back and playing the defensive game. They have a lot of ways to hit at range 4 and have a large amount of suppressive weapons to slow down any advance. Best bet against them is to close that distance as quickly as possible with units that move fast can delete squads quickly (Tauntauns or Flamer RTs for rebels). Alternatively, play the objectives hard. Empire is at it's best when it doesn't need to maneuver much and they don't like being forced to play aggressively with the nerf to Commy Relay.

Republic is a quality over quantity force. Every unit they have packs a good punch and with how common fire support is they have some serious nuke potential. However they will almost always have the fewest units on the field. For as dangerous as their commanders are, it is important to make sure to kill as much of their corp as possible. Even a single clone trooper alive can generate aims and proc fire support for important squads that risk route. If killing the squads outright is proving difficult, try splitting fire more often to dump as much suppression on them as possible. The Republic values action economy more than any other faction.

The CIS is a faction with a cheap, efficient, expendable corp unit surrounded by specialized forces. Despite having the worst defense in the game, B1s can take a large amount of fire while behind heavy cover due to squad size. Outside of those, the rest of their forces are specialized to inflict a ton of damage in one way or another. Dooku, Grievous, and B2s are sledgehammers that can annihilate anything they can get close to. Droidekas are suppression machines that are difficult to kill without focused fire. The AAT is capable of dishing out a disgusting amount of suppression while also pulverizing most targets into dust. BXs look to be a flexible squad that can specialize to fulfill a number of roles. Pay attention to the enemy list. Focus down any B1 with HQ Uplink before moving onto another group of them. They won't all have them, but at least 1 (usually 2) will have it. Your other target should be the commander(s). CIS commanders are expensive, but they're also the best high cost commanders in the game.

The Rebels is the faction with the biggest bag of tricks. Currently they rely heavily on Tauntauns, although RTs have never been bad. When building a Rebel army, have an idea of what you want to do specifically and then choose your commander to fit that role. Leia is the best plug and play commander in the game. Jyn and Cassian are good commanders for SF heavy armies (not strike teams). Han is about screwing with your opponent. Luke is your typical beatstick, and a good one at that. Your corp are a mixed back. Rebel Troopers are cheap with good offense. Rebel Vets give you some more damage over stock Troopers, but more importantly give you access to the MK II Medium Blaster. Fleet Troopers, as much as I love them, are almost unusable without paying even more for the Officer upgrade. The Rebel playbook is similar to the CIS one: they're going to hound you down with big, scary units while the corp are securing objectives. Unlike the CIS, the Rebels don't have good activation control naturally so they'll be relying on luck of the draw without spamming HQ Uplink.

To get rid of this frustration, first you must replace the desire to win with the desire to play. Pushing nicely painted figures around a table full of scenery is always a good way to spend a few hours.

Next you must get tauntauns. They are the best. Not because they kill quickly, but because the crowd loves them.

Maybe you need more scenery? Legion seems to be designed for quite a lot more than most people use for those other wargames. It's not an exact science, but whatever the game, if you use a lot more or a lot less scenery than the designers halfways intended, it'll be unbalanced.

49 minutes ago, TauntaunScout said:

Next you must get tauntauns. They are the best. Not because they kill quickly, but because the crowd loves them.

While tauntauns are really strong, at-rt's work fine and don't require you to focus as much at having orders on them. They also require some synergy with commander and cards.

2 hours ago, Dalae said:

Generally speaking, Rebels can't compete in brute force and war of attrition with the other factions, so we have to focus more on objectives. When i shoot to Imperials, i look for the suppresions to make them lose actions, casualties is almost an unexpected bonus! Most of my victories, I end with very few miniatures on the table, but with the objectives completed.

Rebellions are built on hope...to make more victory points than your opponent.

THIS right here. The Rebels faction identity is high mobility, hard hitting singular pieces. The Rebel's good units all are scaples; you must choose the right place and time to strike, and make it count.

I've had games where my opponents red dice have failed him, and I've look at the end of the table and realized "Wow, I've taken out half of his army. He can still win this ."

While your Hero units, Tauns, and Pathfinders do the damage, now you are left with the corps. As you stated, they will wither under direct fire. Keep them out of sight, and complete the mission. Your entire army could be decimated, but as long as youve used your selected strike to weaken your opponent to the point he cannot score the uperhand, and you've preserved your corps so that you may do so, then you can achieve victory for the Rebellion.

I also recomend you try R2 for more scoring options

27 minutes ago, jocke01 said:

While tauntauns are really strong, at-rt's work fine and don't require you to focus as much at having orders on them. They also require some synergy with commander and cards.

I would take them if they needed a hundred orders on them.

You effectively met your hardest test because the Republic using fire support can reasonably wipe out a Rebel squad using two activations and potentially cost the Rebel player an activation at the same time thus mitigating the Republics downside to using fire support. Throw in that as a new player you are probably running upgrade heavy units to make up points as opposed to lots of leaner units. Then mix in lack of good range 4 weapons, meaning your opponent outranges you and can have meaningful activations at range 4 and this will be a tough match-up.

A lot of people will say you are using Hyperbole with your opponent getting 90% but this can occur if you get negative momentum as a rebel player. A certain portion of your results in game will be non-average and Rebels are slightly more at risk because it is easier to roll poorly and take heavy wounds or wiped out units which causes you to lose activations which makes it easier for your opponent to move around and inflict heavy wounds. This leads to negative momentum. This will happen from time to time, and is part of gaming with the Rebels slightly more susceptible to this.

This all being said I win a lot with the rebels, and they have some really good strengths. The first is you can typically get activation advantage without compromising on unit effectiveness. That means you expose units when it is to your benefit and can start to create unit trades. Rebels love trading a trooper squad if they can take out an opponent trooper squad that costs more. The second thing is the support units are pretty good for the rebels, ATRTs with flamers or Rotary cannons, Tauntauns, Chewie, Sabine, Operative Luke. The Tauntauns and ATRTs are really good units to start with because they directly counter either gunlines or the Meta. Unfortunately I do believe to play Rebels well costs money because you just need more lean units.

18 hours ago, Lord Abadeer said:

I'm new to the game and frustrated with the rebels. I played against the Republic and the entire game his red saves negated 90% of my damage whereas his attacks wiped whole units even behind cover. His keywords popped up everywhere and nimble did nothing. I found myself just waiting for my hero and AT-RT activations so I could actually do damage and feel like I was playing. Is this how rebels feel even at high level play? I just want to feel like I can win instead of watching my opponent remove all my minis from the table.

Please don’t take it to heart if someone tells you to just shut up. You raised a valid issue and concern. If others don’t think the rebels have a problem, that’s fine too, but you are entitled to an opinion and are trying to seek help.

There are lots of videos, blogs and podcasts that talk about strategies for rebels and watching the top players on Twitch or YouTube can help. But I think the problem is that there is a balance issue. The rebels have good units, but they are only certain units like, Sabine, Tauntauns or Luke (either version), but if you do not include them in a list you will find the rebels very underpowered. The Rebels first started as the “cheap” unit, but then for some reason the newer stuff that came out was equal in price to its imperial counterpart without being equal in power. Take the Landspeeder for example. It came out with the Imperial tank and fully kitted it costs the same as the tank (also fully kitted), but is not equal in power by any means. Save for the two white dice weapon any weapons for the speeder start at 30+ while the imperial tank’s weapons are around 18.

From what they said in interviews, I’m sure the developers are aware of the issue, but they don’t like to make too many changes at once. If you can hang in there, I would guess there will be another points change sometime after worlds where the rebels will get the majority of the buffs. Until then, the best thing you can do is ask another rebel player that isn’t having trouble for advice. It would be best if they could watch one of your matches an show you where you went wrong. Good luck. 😉

35 minutes ago, JediPartisan said:

There are lots of videos, blogs and podcasts that talk about strategies for rebels and watching the top players on Twitch or YouTube can help. But I think the problem is that there is a balance issue. The rebels have good units, but they are only certain units like, Sabine, Tauntauns or Luke (either version), but if you do not include them in a list you will find the rebels very underpowered. The Rebels first started as the “cheap” unit, but then for some reason the newer stuff that came out was equal in price to its imperial counterpart without being equal in power. Take the Landspeeder for example. It came out with the Imperial tank and fully kitted it costs the same as the tank (also fully kitted), but is not equal in power by any means. Save for the two white dice weapon any weapons for the speeder start at 30+ while the imperial tank’s weapons are around 18.

This illustrates what I believe is one of the biggest challenges with rebels. Rebel units do not play the way you expect, which means you have to be extremely intentional when you build your army. Take the landspeeder. I completely agree that when you add a bunch of upgrades and try to make it a rebel tank, you don't get what you pay for. However, I've had great success running it as a flanking speeder with fewer weapon upgrades and use it to transport R2 (who in turn keeps it alive).

Nimble on troopers is another example. It seems like you want to put a dodge on them to take advantage of the nimble. However, I've found that it is rarely that beneficial and that other actions are typically more valuable.

Rebels are not nearly as intuitive as other units, so can take some extra time to learn. The white defense makes mistakes more costly as well. The more you play them, though, the more you will come to learn their strengths.

22 hours ago, Lord Abadeer said:

I'm new to the game and frustrated with the rebels. I played against the Republic and the entire game his red saves negated 90% of my damage whereas his attacks wiped whole units even behind cover. His keywords popped up everywhere and nimble did nothing. I found myself just waiting for my hero and AT-RT activations so I could actually do damage and feel like I was playing. Is this how rebels feel even at high level play? I just want to feel like I can win instead of watching my opponent remove all my minis from the table.

I have a lot to say on this I'll write something up

9 hours ago, Darth 2Face said:

This illustrates what I believe is one of the biggest challenges with rebels. Rebel units do not play the way you expect, which means you have to be extremely intentional when you build your army. Take the landspeeder. I completely agree that when you add a bunch of upgrades and try to make it a rebel tank, you don't get what you pay for. However, I've had great success running it as a flanking speeder with fewer weapon upgrades and use it to transport R2 (who in turn keeps it alive).

Nimble on troopers is another example. It seems like you want to put a dodge on them to take advantage of the nimble. However, I've found that it is rarely that beneficial and that other actions are typically more valuable.

Rebels are not nearly as intuitive as other units, so can take some extra time to learn. The white defense makes mistakes more costly as well. The more you play them, though, the more you will come to learn their strengths.

I’m sorry, you seem to have misunderstood. The tank and the Landspeeder can be equal in power, but have a totally different approach. In my opinion those two units are still not equal in power, even if the Landspeeder is played correctly for what it was intended. There is a reason the Landspeeder isn’t seen in a lot of top level lists, but the tank does occasionally make its way onto the top tables. As for rebels not being intuitive and perhaps taking more time to learn, that does spell out the imbalance. I’ve heard the same arguments since the imbalance first started to show, “the rebels are just a bit more challenging to play”. That is because of the imbalance. Usually this is where the other person says, “you just want all the units to be the same”. Factions can be totally different with different powers and abilities and be equal in power, but that’s not where we’re at with Legion. The problem is that the rebels are not equal in power. Maybe it’s because they don’t have much of an identity. Take a look at the mobile trait you mentioned as a benefit to the Landspeeder. Rebel troops don’t really have that as a cornerstone. There are one or two units that can be mobile, but that doesn’t make for part of the faction identity. If you play the Landspeeder with that mobility in mind, the other units in the faction don’t benefit from the same method of play. As for mobility being part of the Nimble keyword, you said it yourself “...it’s rarely beneficial”. Then why are they paying for that keyword?
On top of all that, there are passive abilities and active abilities. Nimble is an example of a passive ability and can only be used when your opponent decides to attack (if you spent an action somewhere to get a dodge). So that ability isn’t really triggered by you. The imperial Precise keyword would be an example of an active ability. You as the player get to decide when to use that ability and get the benefit. Active abilities are more powerful/useful than passive. This all just adds to the imbalance and because of it, Rebel troops really should be cheaper than they are (accept Tauntauns, they should go up in price... by a lot... a lot).
But going back to faction identity and look at the imperials, they have a lot of Suppressive units, and almost all units have red dice not to mention the benefits of Aim on more than one of the Imperial troops. These are traits that lend toward a certain style of play and that style of play can be applied to more than just 1 or 2 units, making it more of a faction identity. That makes the rebels look pathetic by comparison. The only faction identity trait is from dodges and nimble and they can’t even use them because “...it’s rarely beneficial and that other actions are typically more valuable.“ Or even the old trait that was part of the rebel’s faction identity, being a “cheap” unit and that doesn’t even apply any more, because each newer unit has been more and more expensive.

It really is no wonder that new players have a problem with how to play rebels en there is no cohesive thread as far as faction identity that can be seen in the majority of its troops.

I think a lot of people are just not seeing it because they see that some rebel players have had success. They have had success playing very specific lists playing each unit in a deferent way as the unit was intended to be played, where the imperials have far more room for variation in their lists and a cohesive faction identity that runs through more than one unit. And again, that’s par of the imbalance, a general lack of faction identity.

Just my opinion. 😋

To say the game is imbalanced and all factions are not created equal is correct but to say the rebels don't have an identity is only scratching the surface. Most large tournament results have rebels featuring higher, their identity lies in their heroes and support. Their rank and file weren't meant to stand toe to toe with their opponents.

I often think of the rebels as having to rely on guerrilla warfare. Stormtroopers might get away with sitting in the open and trading shots (though even they shouldn't). You can win the game never having made a shot at your opponent, just look at the objectives and think what is the best way to achieve this even if it costs more than half your army.

I've just started playing with a friend (him having the imperials of the Core) and it feels like I have to hit and run all the time, while he's allowed to make more mistakes and still get the objective or entirely win the match.

For me, coming from the WH40k scene, Rebel Troopers feel a little expensive for what they bring to the table... in the skirmishes I've played, I've leaned towards making them naked 40pts squads to fullfill the Corps requirement and get the occasional objective. My friends stormtroopers look like they can take a beating and still do some damage with the aim thing, and just for 1 point more than a Rebel.

On the other hand, I got some Tauntauns and they are really good. It feels like a really high and low faction, with some really really good units and a lot of meh ones.

With all of that, they are super fun to me and I'm going to keep playing them. Just my newbie two cents.

Rebels are not built to be able to hold their own in a gunfight against any faction except maybe MAYBE separatists but they're still developing. They are designed to be able to score objectives easier than any other faction with their ability to out activate most of the time and many other abilities. Hardly any of their units hit hard at all so honestly Rebels dont even do a lot of attacking. They run around nabbing objectives and staying out of sight or hunkering down behind heavy cover and a dodge which is incredibly hard to kill. They take longer to learn to play than imperials who just basically aim and shoot but if you can get them down they are extremely effective and loads of fun

Not all objectives can be completed before round 6 though and question is if the new objective pack will feature different kinds of objectives.

You'll get better, dude. And Rebels can be good. One of our group's better players dominated with rebels.

4 hours ago, jocke01 said:

Not all objectives can be completed before round 6 though and question is if the new objective pack will feature different kinds of objectives.

IIRC, the bombing run can be.

5 hours ago, bllaw said:

Rebels are not built to be able to hold their own in a gunfight against any faction except maybe MAYBE separatists but they're still developing. They are designed to be able to score objectives easier than any other faction with their ability to out activate most of the time and many other abilities. Hardly any of their units hit hard at all so honestly Rebels dont even do a lot of attacking. They run around nabbing objectives and staying out of sight or hunkering down behind heavy cover and a dodge which is incredibly hard to kill. They take longer to learn to play than imperials who just basically aim and shoot but if you can get them down they are extremely effective and loads of fun

They Rebels and Imperials feature inverse qualities, the Rebels feature superior passive offense, and the Imperials have superior passive defense.