11 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Simple. Speed 5-6 vehicles actually can potentially hit close to those 3600 KPH speeds you're complaining that an ATAT seems to be able to pull off going from Long to Extreme. The T-65 X-Wing (Speed 5) can hit 1050 KPH . The TIE Ln (speed 5) can hit 1200. The TIE Interceptor (Speed 6) can hit 1250 KPH . The A-Wing (speed 6) can reach 1300 KPH. Your alteration to the Range band distances slows those vehicles way down .

That's a good point. I'll consider whether/how to adjust the numbers to fit those higher speeds better. I'm not sure why I didn't account for those numbers in the first place. My bad.

12 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

As such, the most appropriate fix is not to adjust the range band distances, but, instead, to adjust the number of maneuvers it takes for vehicles of different speeds to move between certain range bands . Base that on extrapolating from what the RAW lists in the "exceptions" for each speed group. Further, I would modify that list to group Speed 2 in with Speed 1.

I disagree on grouping speeds 1 and 2, as it means that an AT-AT actually isn't any slower than a jetpack, for example.

I actually don't want to really adjust the number of maneuvers it takes for them to move between range bands, because I don't want to radically change the RAW, and I really don't want to dramatically increase the number of maneuvers it takes to move between range bands because it makes it harder to keep track of it and slows down movement between range bands, which isn't my goal.

15 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Thus, since it takes Speed 1 vehicles to move from Close to Short, it should take another two to move from Short to Medium, another four to move from Medium to Long, and another eight to move from Long to Extreme, for a total of Thirty two Maneuvers to move from Close to Extreme range. Mind you, that would take at least sixteen rounds, and, thus, would slow down the combat exponentially. If that's still too fast, double those for Short to Medium, Medium to Long, and Long to Extreme. This should also be true of Speed 2, though some Speed 2 vehicles (such as Jet packs) can hit over 145 KPH . That's almost three times the speed of the ATAT. Speeds 3-4 should move from Close to Short or from Short to Medium in one Maneuver, Medium to Long in two Maneuvers, and Long to Extreme in four Maneuvers. Speeds 5-6, should work as written, taking two Maneuvers to move from Long to Extreme. That is how you "fix" the issue.

Haven't run the numbers on that, but that's not far off (in principle) from my second proposal.

Something I'm trying to keep in mind here is game balance, and not having vehicles that are way too fast compared to others (specifically referring to game balance). Also simplicity and compatibility with Chase rules (which have their own issues, though those could probably be mostly solved by adding a Boost for every point of speed advantage).

5 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

That's a good point. I'll consider whether/how to adjust the numbers to fit those higher speeds better. I'm not sure why I didn't account for those numbers in the first place. My bad.

I disagree on grouping speeds 1 and 2, as it means that an AT-AT actually isn't any slower than a jetpack, for example.

I actually don't want to really adjust the number of maneuvers it takes for them to move between range bands, because I don't want to radically change the RAW, and I really don't want to dramatically increase the number of maneuvers it takes to move between range bands because it makes it harder to keep track of it and slows down movement between range bands, which isn't my goal.

Haven't run the numbers on that, but that's not far off (in principle) from my second proposal.

Something I'm trying to keep in mind here is game balance, and not having vehicles that are way too fast compared to others (specifically referring to game balance). Also simplicity and compatibility with Chase rules (which have their own issues, though those could probably be mostly solved by adding a Boost for every point of speed advantage).

The problem is that each speed rating typically is way faster than the one below it. Speed 2 is 1.5 to 3 times the speed of Speed 1, Speed three is two to three times faster than Speed 2, Speed 4 is about double Speed 3. Only Speed 5-6 seem to be relatively close, and that's because some of the Speed 5 vehicles listed are at the top end of that speed and the Speed 6 ones tend to be at the lower end of Speed 6.

On 3/9/2020 at 11:39 PM, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

I'm starting with the assumption that a round is about a minute long.

I think this is your first, and main, mistake.

To borrow a definition from another game "a turn is as long as it needs to be for everyone to have time to perform their actions, no more, no less."

In personal scale combat, a turn would probably be more along the lines of 5-10 seconds. Often less.

Just now, penpenpen said:

In personal scale combat, a turn would probably be more along the lines of 5-10 seconds. Often less.

If anything, that just makes it worse (though I am talking about vehicle combat, here). With 10 second rounds, an AT-AT moves at 21,600 mph.

However, I have heard it oft repeated that a round in this game is about a minute long. I believe it is attributed to a dev on the order 66 podcast.

5 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

If anything, that just makes it worse (though I am talking about vehicle combat, here). With 10 second rounds, an AT-AT moves at 21,600 mph.

However, I have heard it oft repeated that a round in this game is about a minute long. I believe it is attributed to a dev on the order 66 podcast.

Don't focus on exact numbers.

"A turn is as long as it needs to be for everyone to have time to perform their actions, no more, no less."

Did a walker move several kilometers in a turn? That turn needed to be a few minutes long. Did the walker just trade a few shots with the enemy? That can be over in seconds. Turns don't need to be of a fixed and equal length no more than a scene or an encounter does.

12 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

If anything, that just makes it worse (though I am talking about vehicle combat, here). With 10 second rounds, an AT-AT moves at 21,600 mph.

However, I have heard it oft repeated that a round in this game is about a minute long. I believe it is attributed to a dev on the order 66 podcast.

The problem is that they are only moving that fast between long and extreme. They are slower with each range band. If you want to slow it down at further distances, you need to stretch those distances.

1 minute ago, Rimsen said:

The problem is that they are only moving that fast between long and extreme. They are slower with each range band. If you want to slow it down at further distances, you need to stretch those distances.

I know, I'm just picking the most egregious example to demonstrate how broken it currently is.

I've been fiddling with the numbers, but I don't have anything solid yet. I don't care too much about having it perfect, I really just want to get it much, much closer because I'm also really trying to keep it as close to the RAW as possible, which is why I'm not requiring 32 maneuvers for an AT-AT to go from Close to Extreme like Tramp suggested. However, I'll see how to expand Extreme and maybe Long as well, or possibly just speed up 5 and 6.

It's a very delicate balance though, because I don't want to end up with a situation where the slow speeds either move absurdly fast in mph/kph or absurdly slow game-wise.

Remember this, If they're that far away to begin with, they're effectively out of the combat regardless. Remember, it is only during Structured time that a round is equal to about a minute. In unstructured time, its about five minutes . The only way they're getting in to combat is if a faster vehicle closes the distance with them.