Gozanti will fuel a Imperial Star Destroyer II squadron command or anything else that might be needed and raider provides support fire

Name: Competitive
Faction: Imperial
Commander: Admiral Piett

Assault: Advanced Gunnery
Defense: Fleet In Being
Navigation: Superior Positions

Imperial II (120)
• Admiral Piett (22)
• Strategic Adviser (4)
• Local Fire Control (4)
• Expanded Hangar Bay (5)
• Electronic Countermeasures (7)
• Leading Shots (4)
• XX-9 Turbolasers (5)
• Relentless (3)
= 174 Points

Raider I (44)
• Iden Versio (6)
• Darth Vader (3)
• Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)
• Corvus (2)
= 60 Points

Gozanti Cruisers (23)
• Comms Net (2)
= 25 Points

Squadrons:
• Maarek Stele (21)
• TIE Defender Squadron (16)
• 2 x TIE Bomber Squadron (18)
• Ciena Ree (17)
• Valen Rudor (13)
• Whisper (20)
• Colonel Jendon (20)
= 125 Points

Total Points: 384

I'd swap out Whisper for Dengar. Sure, Whisper can use Cloak to slip away from squadron engagement, but none of your other ships can, so they're going to get locked down by enemy squadrons. Dengar would prevent all your squadrons from getting locked down, as well as provide Counter +1.

I'd lose the generics and take Major Rhymer and/or Captain Jonus instead. You're not flying any TIE/Advanced's so enemy squadrons can shoot any squad they want, and they're going to pick off your bombers first. If you run Aces, they'll survive longer. We all know what Rhymer does. Jonus will let your ISD2 and Raider change a die to an Accuracy. Don't forget that Leading Shots doesn't work at long range because you need to spend a blue die. At long range, rolling 4 red dice, odds are that you'll roll 1 blank (1/4 chance) or not an Accuracy (only 1/8 chance), so Jonus lets you turn that blank into an Accuracy.

When I'm flying Jonus, I like to equip Quad Turbolaser Cannons because I know I'll be getting that red Accuracy, so it adds another Accuracy. That's 2 Accuracy's, plus whatever the other 3 reds roll. And you have plenty of points available for QTC.

I'd use Avenger instead of Relentless. I assume that you plan to pass Squadron tokens to the ISD2 with Comms Net and use Piett to convert them into dials, while the ISD2 reveals CF commands. So Command 2 isn't really worthwhile. Since the ISD2 will be activating squadrons first, they can attack enemy ships and either make the enemy exhaust defense tokens and Avenger won't allow them to be spent again; or the enemy won't spend defense tokens because of Avenger, so all the bombers' damage will get through. That's absolutely worth 2 extra points.

If you're going to activate 5 squadrons every round from the ISD2, I'd definitely equip Flight Controllers instead of Local Fire Control. I know Salvo is a fun new defense token, but you have such a squadron-heavy build it doesn't really make sense to choose Salvo over Flight Controllers.

You might also want to consider Boosted Comms instead of Expanded Hangar Bay. Firstly, if you change generics to Aces, you'll have 7 or less squadrons. The ISD2 activates 4, the Raider activates 1, and the Gozanti can activate 2; that's 7. Second, all of your squadrons are Speed 4 or 5, which means they can get into attack range sooner. If you slow-approach with the ISD2 at Speed 1, maybe even 2, and move your squadrons as far as then can go, the ISD2 might not be in medium range to activate them during the next round. You'd have to limit their moves to between distance 3-4, thereby giving up their speed advantage. With Boosted Comms, that won't be a problem.

I like the Raider-I configuration though.

13 hours ago, Reavern said:

I'd swap out Whisper for Dengar. Sure, Whisper can use Cloak to slip away from squadron engagement, but none of your other ships can, so they're going to get locked down by enemy squadrons. Dengar would prevent all your squadrons from getting locked down, as well as provide Counter +1.

I'd lose the generics and take Major Rhymer and/or Captain Jonus instead. You're not flying any TIE/Advanced's so enemy squadrons can shoot any squad they want, and they're going to pick off your bombers first. If you run Aces, they'll survive longer. We all know what Rhymer does. Jonus will let your ISD2 and Raider change a die to an Accuracy. Don't forget that Leading Shots doesn't work at long range because you need to spend a blue die. At long range, rolling 4 red dice, odds are that you'll roll 1 blank (1/4 chance) or not an Accuracy (only 1/8 chance), so Jonus lets you turn that blank into an Accuracy.

When I'm flying Jonus, I like to equip Quad Turbolaser Cannons because I know I'll be getting that red Accuracy, so it adds another Accuracy. That's 2 Accuracy's, plus whatever the other 3 reds roll. And you have plenty of points available for QTC.

I'd use Avenger instead of Relentless. I assume that you plan to pass Squadron tokens to the ISD2 with Comms Net and use Piett to convert them into dials, while the ISD2 reveals CF commands. So Command 2 isn't really worthwhile. Since the ISD2 will be activating squadrons first, they can attack enemy ships and either make the enemy exhaust defense tokens and Avenger won't allow them to be spent again; or the enemy won't spend defense tokens because of Avenger, so all the bombers' damage will get through. That's absolutely worth 2 extra points.

If you're going to activate 5 squadrons every round from the ISD2, I'd definitely equip Flight Controllers instead of Local Fire Control. I know Salvo is a fun new defense token, but you have such a squadron-heavy build it doesn't really make sense to choose Salvo over Flight Controllers.

You might also want to consider Boosted Comms instead of Expanded Hangar Bay. Firstly, if you change generics to Aces, you'll have 7 or less squadrons. The ISD2 activates 4, the Raider activates 1, and the Gozanti can activate 2; that's 7. Second, all of your squadrons are Speed 4 or 5, which means they can get into attack range sooner. If you slow-approach with the ISD2 at Speed 1, maybe even 2, and move your squadrons as far as then can go, the ISD2 might not be in medium range to activate them during the next round. You'd have to limit their moves to between distance 3-4, thereby giving up their speed advantage. With Boosted Comms, that won't be a problem.

I like the Raider-I configuration though.

Thanks for the help mate!!

@Reavern

how about this?

i kept the XX-9s over QTC because I really want that second player bid

Name: Competitive
Faction: Imperial
Commander: Admiral Piett

Assault: Advanced Gunnery
Defense: Fleet In Being
Navigation: Superior Positions

Imperial II (120)
• Admiral Piett (22)
• Strategic Adviser (4)
• Flight Controllers (6)
• Boosted Comms (4)
• Electronic Countermeasures (7)
• Leading Shots (4)
• XX-9 Turbolasers (5)
• Avenger (5)
= 177 Points

Raider I (44)
• Iden Versio (6)
• Darth Vader (3)
• Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)
• Corvus (2)
= 60 Points

Gozanti Cruisers (23)
• Comms Net (2)
= 25 Points

Squadrons:
• Maarek Stele (21)
• TIE Defender Squadron (16)
• Ciena Ree (17)
• Valen Rudor (13)
• Dengar (20)
• Colonel Jendon (20)
• Captain Jonus (16)
= 123 Points

Total Points: 385

3 hours ago, CinnaWolf said:

@Reavern

how about this?

i kept the XX-9s over QTC because I really want that second player bid

Squadrons:
• Maarek Stele (21)
• TIE Defender Squadron (16)
• Ciena Ree (17)
• Valen Rudor (13)
• Dengar (20)
• Colonel Jendon (20)
• Captain Jonus (16)
= 123 Points

Total Points: 385

Your revised build looks good.

Although when I wrote "lose the generics", I meant the TIE Defender too. I'm a fan of the TIE Defender (more from the EU/Legends than its depiction in Armada), but in an Ace-heavy list, your one generic squad is going to get focus-fired and killed first, possibly before it can do anything. 16 points is a lot to waste on cannon-fodder. That's what TIE Fighters are for, at half the price. I'd suggest Tempest Squadron (13) instead, because it's a few points cheaper, also has Bomber but rolls a black die so it has 1/4 chance of inflicting 2 damage with a Crit; and has Escort, so it will force force enemy squads to attack it, thereby keeping the heat off Dengar, Jonus, and Stele for a few attacks.

Alternatively, Mauler is a perfect pairing with Dengar because enemy squadrons can't stop him from moving until Dengar is destroyed. And since you're also flying Jendon, you can double-tap Mauler and splash 2 damage to every enemy squadron nearby. That's far more useful than a generic TIE Defender.

I understand you wanting 1st player, but 15 points is a very aggressive Initiative Bid. I think against the majority of players you'll face, you're overbidding by 5 or more points. Your whole strategy shouldn't be built around 1st player. Never forget the military adage: "No plan survives contact with the enemy." It means adaptability is everything. Therefore, you should practice with your own Objective Cards so you can use them to your advantage.

That's why when I design a 1st player build, I aim for 390-394 points. IME 393 is the sweet spot because what I call "take it or leave it" cards are 6 points or less. Whereas "war winning" cards, like Heavy Ion Emplacements, Spinal Armament, TRC, ACM, Electronic Countermeasures, Engine Techs, Intel Officer, and Gunnery Team are 7 points or greater. Those cards you build your fleet around; you don't drop one of those when you're at 401 points. But you could drop an upgrade like XX-9 Turbolasers.

Another reason why I rarely ever go below 390 is: Imagine if your opponent has a 400-point build and wants to be 2nd player, so that you're forced to choose their Objective Cards, which will all be bad options for you. You'll be giving away those 15 points, which could put you at a greater disadvantage than the advantage that 1st player provides.

That's why I suggest you swap XX-9 for Quad Turbolaser Cannons. Give it a try and see how well it works. A free Accuracy is invaluable, especially a Red Accuracy because you'll always get it (as long as Jonus survives). Besides, you'll be inflicting enough face-up damage cards with Stele and Jonus that the extra one that XX-9 deals is unnecessary. Also, without the extra Accuracy, the enemy ship might be able to spend Contain , which will prevent both damage cards from being dealt face-up.

@Reavern thanks mate!!!

1 hour ago, Reavern said:

Also, without the extra Accuracy, the enemy ship might be able to spend Contain , which will prevent both damage cards from being dealt face-up.

Although I agree with much of this, it's worth clarifying that XX-9s do go through the standard contain (you don't even need to be dealing 2 damage cards.)

1 hour ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Although I agree with much of this, it's worth clarifying that XX-9s do go through the standard contain (you don't even need to be dealing 2 damage cards.)

Ok, you may be correct that XX-9 is a Special Crit so Contain won't work without Damage Control Officer. (I'd prefer clarification from FFG in a FAQ about this one.)

However, it makes no sense that XX-9 would inflict 2 face-up damage if the attack didn't deal at least 2 damage cards.

The wording on XX-9 Turbolaser is: " : The first 2 damage cards dealt to the defender by this attack are dealt faceup ."

XX-9 isn't like Assault Proton Torpedoes, which uses a Black Crit to deal a face-up damage card even if that hull zone has shields. If XX-9 did that, it would be twice as good as APT, so it doesn't make sense it costs the same: 5 points.

If an attack with a Crit inflicted 5 damage (after defense tokens were spent) and the ship had 2 shields on the defending hull zone, 2 damage would deplete the shields, and 3 damage cards would be dealt to that ship. Normally, a Crit's standard effect is the 1st damage card would be dealt face-up. However, XX-9 changes that to the first 2 damage cards dealt by the attack are dealt face-up.

If the attack had only inflicted 3 damage, 2 damage would deplete the shields, and only 1 damage card would be dealt, and that one card would be dealt face-up. XX-9 wouldn't add a second face-up damage card. It only causes the first two cards to be dealt face-up if two or more damage cards are being dealt by that attack.

40 minutes ago, Reavern said:

Ok, you may be correct that XX-9 is a Special Crit so Contain won't work without Damage Control Officer. (I'd prefer clarification from FFG in a FAQ about this one.)

However, it makes no sense that XX-9 would inflict 2 face-up damage if the attack didn't deal at least 2 damage cards.

The wording on XX-9 Turbolaser is: " : The first 2 damage cards dealt to the defender by this attack are dealt faceup ."

XX-9 isn't like Assault Proton Torpedoes, which uses a Black Crit to deal a face-up damage card even if that hull zone has shields. If XX-9 did that, it would be twice as good as APT, so it doesn't make sense it costs the same: 5 points.

If an attack with a Crit inflicted 5 damage (after defense tokens were spent) and the ship had 2 shields on the defending hull zone, 2 damage would deplete the shields, and 3 damage cards would be dealt to that ship. Normally, a Crit's standard effect is the 1st damage card would be dealt face-up. However, XX-9 changes that to the first 2 damage cards dealt by the attack are dealt face-up.

If the attack had only inflicted 3 damage, 2 damage would deplete the shields, and only 1 damage card would be dealt, and that one card would be dealt face-up. XX-9 wouldn't add a second face-up damage card. It only causes the first two cards to be dealt face-up if two or more damage cards are being dealt by that attack.

I assume that @The Jabbawookie didn't mean that you are dealt two faceup damage cards, even when being dealt less.

You can use the crit from XX-9 even if only one damage card is being dealt to the ship. Contain will not help against it. You do not have deal two damage cards to use this crit, this is what he (i assume) means.

4 minutes ago, Tokra said:

I assume that @The Jabbawookie didn't mean that you are dealt two faceup damage cards, even when being dealt less.

You can use the crit from XX-9 even if only one damage card is being dealt to the ship. Contain will not help against it. You do not have deal two damage cards to use this crit, this is what he (i assume) means.

This is exactly right. You don’t get “extra” cards, but if you are only dealing one, it’s face up regardless of a (standard) contain.

7 hours ago, Reavern said:

Alternatively, Mauler is a perfect pairing with Dengar because enemy squadrons can't stop him from moving until Dengar is destroyed. And since you're also flying Jendon, you can double-tap Mauler and splash 2 damage to every enemy squadron nearby.

No, that is absolutely NOT how Jendon works.

He allows a squadron (even an activated one) to ATTACK twice. He does not reactivate it, nor allow it to move again. Mauler’s special ability requires movement.

Also: your idea about 393 being a sweet spot and bids and all is interesting, but I think this is something that changes with local playgroups and evolves over time. Used to be, I would bid 5-7 points every time, and win every bid in my local group. Now (when I’m bidding hard), I can go into the mid 380’s and might not get it.

1 hour ago, Cpt ObVus said:

No, that is absolutely NOT how Jendon works.

He allows a squadron (even an activated one) to ATTACK twice. He does not reactivate it, nor allow it to move again. Mauler’s special ability requires movement.

Also: your idea about 393 being a sweet spot and bids and all is interesting, but I think this is something that changes with local playgroups and evolves over time. Used to be, I would bid 5-7 points every time, and win every bid in my local group. Now (when I’m bidding hard), I can go into the mid 380’s and might not get it.

Sorry, you're correct. Mauler IS the perfect pairing with Dengar, but Jendon can't make Mauler move twice. (It's Adar Tallon that toggles the activation slider.)

I'm aware that local META varies, and of course I have been outbid by opponents when I've run 393 point builds, but I've rarely ever gone 385 or lower because IME 1st player is not that pivotal an advantage. In most situations, I'd take last activation over first. It's just that last-first-ing is so META that a lot of players overvalue being 1st player.

If my local META was 385-point builds (I wish my Usual Suspects were that predictable), I'd build nothing but 400-point builds with punishing Objective Cards. I could absolutely use those 15 extra points.

That's why 393 is my sweet spot for 1st player bids. I'm only giving up 1 good upgrade card, but nothing so vital it would cause me to lose a game.