I have been flying IG-88 in tournaments since version 1.0 and have kept doing it all the way in 2.0. It is a great ship and has lots of cool abilities and possibilities to equip upgrades. Flying it successfully, however, requires a lot of practice and experience, especially considering its initiative, but it can also be a lot of fun! After easily several hundred games, both in real life and on Flycasual, I have come to believe that the chassis itself needs a tiny tweek. The current ability reads:

"After performing a calculate action, gain 1 calculate token."

This ties most of the chassis' offensive capabilities (which is what is required to win a tournament round) into a single action: calculate, thus severely limiting other actions that it can use. After so many hours of flying IG-88, I believe that the chassis ability needs to be reworked into the following:

"Once per round, after performing an action, gain 1 calculate token."

Under most circumstances, the calculate action would still be the default one that a player should use. However, this would open up other actions that IG-88 would normally not dare use, such as target lock or advanced sensor-boosting. It would benefit IG-88C and to some extent, IG-88D. The inclusion would mostly put IG-88 into a level of flexibility that most force users currently enjoy (bearing in mind that it is still only an initiative 4 pilot that can easily reach 100 points once fully equipped).

That's just my 2 cents of the day. Have fun out there!

Good change.

If this chaneg would occur, I do NOT want that ti would be possible to have 3 IGs in a squad.

Still, you can do that a little with IG-A. The other IG is doing his action, and receive a token from A.

My issue with this is that it'd be an incredibly confusing change. In 2e, once-per-turn stuff is handled with charges, and this is a level of errata which might be too extreme.

//

I enjoyed Aggressors in 1e, or at least the control versions. I could never quite make it work trying to bully folks with HLC versions. My biggest 1e regret is I never was able to get Attanni/Inaldra IGs on the table before the Attanni nerf.

Anyhow, in 2e, they just don't have the action economy to support themselves. They've always felt really fragile to me, unable to live long enough to earn their cost. I love 2e Defenders and generic Silencers (and have enjoyed E-Wings), so I'm no stranger to expensive 3 red/3 green ships that most folks think are overpriced. IGs feel so much worse to me.

Overall, I feel like their design should have included more action economy, and their price have been higher (or rather, not reduced from their high release price). They've a cool core premise with a lot of tricks and utility. But if they just die because they've got **** for actions, that utility doesn't matter.

I prefer IGs the way they are. There’s no meaningful trade off with your Proposed change. I like the double calculate or do something else.

Use IG A in your squad to help balance the tokens where they need to go. Every IG in your list can use the ability as needed.

23 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

I prefer IGs the way they are. There’s no meaningful trade off with your Proposed change.

If you mean the trade only has gain and no loss, you're right. Calc + Evade is better defensively than double Calc, and Calc + Lock is better offensively than double calc. Boost + Calc is better offensively and defensively than just boost.

I like your idea @dotswarlock , but as @theBitterFig pointed out, it would require a bit too much errata. But it has potential for future droid pilots; perhaps a IG-88E, or Q9-0 or IG-11 from Mandalorian.

Change it to “when they perform their first action during the perform action step...” instead of once per turn which is harder to track.

27 minutes ago, TasteTheRainbow said:

Change it to “when they perform their first action during the perform action step...” instead of once per turn which is harder to track.

Or use a recuring charge.

"After performing an action, spend a charge to gain a calculate token".

Why do people always jump straight to errata? I concede that there are problems in 2.0 that points can't fix (AS Guri, Ensnare, ID Han, HTD Dormitz Upsilons) but they can fix the vast majority of them .

IG doesn't need errata. Maybe the title should be free, maybe not. Maybe the ships should be cheaper, maybe not. Cannons definitely need to be cheaper on 3-primary ships (maybe on all ships but the Scyk could be busted in that case). Why the devs thought to nerf them when they were already totally unplayable is beyond unfathomable to me.

Personally I think IGB is a trap in the current points. A and C plus a support ship with D to spit calculates works okay. Still not really room to give them what they need for success though, which leads me to think that their 8HP/3agi really does lose some value without innate focus. Hard to say for sure. We don't have any meaningful data on the new points for Extended.

2e is this weird dance of should these platforms just get small double mods (like calculate or force) to differentiate them, or cost so little that you can hopefully put some upgrade on that gives double mods. Which in turn exacerbates demand for double mod style upgrades. Going back to 1e.

Dont get me wrong. 2e is one of the most beautiful games in existence. But the unique problems it created for itself with pilot skill and avoiding pure efficiency = goodness still hasn’t been meaningfully resolved. (Though it’s such a good game it doesn’t really need to). Something using player skill and utilization like flying needs to overcome that. In some games, skill shots, micro are the answer. We don’t quite have that in xwing.

A config that adds boost to linked calculate would do a ton for this ship. Advanced droid brain would still work on a red linked calculate.

Yeah i love IGs and I virtually never perform a calculate action the way I fly them.

Abilities that always cause you to perform the same action are boring

11 hours ago, dotswarlock said:

The current ability reads:

"After performing a calculate action, gain 1 calculate token."

This ties most of the chassis' offensive capabilities (which is what is required to win a tournament round) into a single action: calculate, thus severely limiting other actions that it can use.

I don't think this is true. In terms of pure offence, if you're firing a single, 3-dice attack two calculate tokens is slightly worse than a target lock or the single focus token which most ships can get. The advantage of double calculate is not that it's the strongest offensive option (except maybe with IG-88B), but rather that you can split it over attack and defence, or over multiple defence rolls if you're getting shot by more than one ship.

Would a new tactical relay slot help? Not sure exactly how to approach it, but I think there is potential. Something similar to Kracken.

I still feel the title should be free. It should have been a built in ability.

1 hour ago, martini74 said:

I still feel the title should be free. It should have been a built in ability.

I go back and forth on it.

On the one hand, the shared pilot abilities has always been the key design feature of the IG-88s.

On the other, I don't mind a player getting a minor price cut if they decide only to bring one of the IG-88s. Like, if I bring only IG-88 B and some Fang Fighters or Scyks or whatever, why should I be paying more?

If your point is that they're a point or two overpriced with the title attached, that's fair enough, but if the [ship + title] is fairly priced, I don't have a problem with a non-zero title cost.

When 2.0 was first released, with the x-foils being zero points, as an essential configuration of the x-wing, why was the IG title 2 points. Yes, cost was reduced, but it is an essential part of the ship.

I see the point made if you only run a single.

12 hours ago, martini74 said:

When 2.0 was first released, with the x-foils being zero points, as an essential configuration of the x-wing, why was the IG title 2 points. Yes, cost was reduced, but it is an essential part of the ship.

I see the point made if you only run a single.

I think we can both agree that the most important thing is that ship + title, or ship + config, or whichever, is correctly priced.

After that, I guess it's a question of whether or not there's a real benefit to having the ship cost more, or the title/config cost more.

• For X-Wings, I think 0-points is correct. Without S-Foils, it's just a Kihraxz, and I don't really think anything is added.
• For B-Wings, with and without S-Foils does make a difference. The value of double-taps is pretty large, so to have a 0-point config means the ship price really needs to be jacked. This makes it essentially impossible to play a B-Wing without the configuration--a real concern in this case, because the B-Wing and the S-Foils are sold separately.
• For Starwings, the configuration should be 0 points. The result a cost on the configs is just that the generics probably never take OS-1. A generic Passive Sensors gunboat, if it could save 2 points, probably would. I think that'd lose a lot of what makes the
• For IG-88s, honestly... I think the title should go up considerably. Let's agree for the moment that, say, IG-88 B with Autoblasters is worth 67 points in an IG-2000 pilot ability sharing list (probably not true, but for sake of argument...). Outside that list, IG B is certainly worth less than 66 points, however. There's no calculate sharing, no evade after a boost, no altering your Segnor's Loops. Isn't the loss of those pilot abilities worth, say, 3 points? 4? 5?
  • So I think that's an actual gain in the non-2000 version of the IGs being somewhat playable outside the multiple-IG clique.
  • And again, the context for this has to be a reduction in the base cost of the IG-88s, any increase in title cost should be offset by a reduction in the base cost of the ship.
  • The more I think about it... that'd be great. Being able to slot a single IG-88 along side a regular list of ships probably increases their play time. Bringing two of these often kinda chokes the life and potential out of a list. Bringing one, a Firespray, and Fang or Scyk, probably winds up being a... not necessarily top-tables-large-tournament list, but at least a decent sort list.

Honestly, I’m cool with “Advanced Droid Brain: After you perform an action, gain a calculate.”

It’s powerful, but GOOD and fun! Still not overpowering compared to either offensive or defensive ship abilities/ force. Yes, it could stack with coordinate and IG-C shenanigans, but it’s clean and simple. Good on Offense and Defense. Not quite double modded but still really good.

Granted, it should probably push them up above the three in a list break point.

6 hours ago, JBFancourt said:

Honestly, I’m cool with “Advanced Droid Brain: After you perform an action, gain a calculate.”

It’s powerful, but GOOD and fun! Still not overpowering compared to either offensive or defensive ship abilities/ force. Yes, it could stack with coordinate and IG-C shenanigans, but it’s clean and simple. Good on Offense and Defense. Not quite double modded but still really good.

Granted, it should probably push them up above the three in a list break point.

Yeah. I think like this more than the OP's suggestion.

Maybe limit it to actions performed during your activation, since Passive Sensors becomes an absolute token machine for a bargain.

Or maybe don't, in the interest of keeping it simple.

That's the thing I like about it most: that it's clean. Adding charges and such becomes complicated. Giving any IG-88 a big stack of calculates seems like a genuine reason to start flying them, and justify a higher price. I feel like there's a limit to how low they can go, since at some point, the raw value of 8 health behind 3 green dice becomes hard to overcome. So having a larger cost for a better ship might be overall healthier.

*edit*

6 hours ago, JBFancourt said:

Yes, it could stack with coordinate and IG-C shenanigans , but it’s clean and simple.

This in particular might make Juke IG-88s actually playable (which is a... mixed... blessing). Boost (Calculate) -> Evade (Calcualte). If you can make a long run up into someone, you can double-calc-evade. But only when there's enough space to really lean into it.

Only marginally more damage than Passive Sensors, though. 2.09 damage expected against a 2 green dice opponent without a focus, compared to 2.04 with PS.

I will say, IG-88A would become a Lt. Karsabi/Joy Rekoff tier pilot ... lol.

I miss old IG-A 😢

It’d be GREAT for a droid swarm 🤣

While I agree in principle with the idea, I think that rather than change all the IGs with errata just make a mod slot that accomplishes something similar.

Enhanced Targeting Computer. Gain calculate action. After you perform a lock action, perform a free (possibly red) calculate action. (you could do gain a calculate token If you think lock plus 2 calculates is too powerful, but I’m not sure it is, particularly if you are paying 3-4 points for it.)

Why this way? Well you can cost it appropriately and it helps other ships that need a little more action efficiency, particularly low initiative missile and torpedo carriers. It becomes a little bit of a guidance chips, but not overwhelming great, but more flexible as you can use it on defence also. As it gives the calculate action it also combos with C-3PO in resistance for interesting coordinate shenanigans.

On 3/7/2020 at 11:01 AM, theBitterFig said:

For IG-88s, honestly... I think the title should go up considerably. Let's agree for the moment that, say, IG-88 B with Autoblasters is worth 67 points in an IG-2000 pilot ability sharing list (probably not true, but for sake of argument...). Outside that list, IG B is certainly worth less than 66 points, however. There's no calculate sharing, no evade after a boost, no altering your Segnor's Loops. Isn't the loss of those pilot abilities worth, say, 3 points? 4? 5?

• So I think that's an actual gain in the non-2000 version of the IGs being somewhat playable outside the multiple-IG clique.
• And again, the context for this has to be a reduction in the base cost of the IG-88s, any increase in title cost should be offset by a reduction in the base cost of the ship.
• The more I think about it... that'd be great. Being able to slot a single IG-88 along side a regular list of ships probably increases their play time. Bringing two of these often kinda chokes the life and potential out of a list. Bringing one, a Firespray, and Fang or Scyk, probably winds up being a... not necessarily top-tables-large-tournament list, but at least a decent sort list.

Honestly, I like this idea. Allowing the IG's into lists without their pilot ability sharing for cheap would be cool. As it is, they are barely worth taking with share-ability. IGD would be fun to take alone with Adv Sensors, but the cost is prohibitive. Dropping the chassis cost while raising the title would allow for interesting builds like that and allow IGs to pop up in non-brobot lists.

I am hoping for a cannon that will require the double cannon slot. Something similar to the old HLC that requires two slots.

1 hour ago, martini74 said:

I am hoping for a cannon that will require the double cannon slot. Something similar to the old HLC that requires two slots.

There is new cannon coming out with the Droid Gunship, perhaps is will have a punchy cannon. I do like your double cannon idea, as you can make a B-Wing/IG specific cannon to boost them without the problem of making 2 die primary with cannon slot too good.