I was trying to figure out what to do with my second ISD as it’s never seen the light of day. I managed to find a list to include it and was wondering if this is still viable? Any thoughts and comments on upgrades, ships and objectives would be appreciated.

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault: Advanced Gunnery
Defense: Fighter Ambush
Navigation: Superior Positions

Imperial I (110)
• Admiral Motti (24)
• Flight Controllers (6)
• Boosted Comms (4)
• Chimaera (4)
• All fighters, Follow Me! (5)
= 153 Points

Imperial I (110)
• Flight Controllers (6)
• Boosted Comms (4)
= 120 Points

Squadrons:
• Maarek Stele (21)
• Morna Kee (27)
• Colonel Jendon (20)
• Dengar (20)
• Hondo Ohnaka (24)
• Zertik Strom (15)
= 127 Points

Total Points: 400

Zertik is in there to protect the other aces but could easily swap him for Mithel. Was wondering if I’d get much mileage out of the fleet command as I could also use it for Entrapment Formation as well or just better off with Flag Bridge and with the spare points go for a bid, or ditch Hondo to get say Howlrunner and 2 Ties to put my fighter compliment up to 8?

If you’re flying Zertik Strom, I’d swap out Hondo for Bossk. Use Strom to tap Bossk for a reroll and activate Bossk’s free Accuracy to target enemy aces or even ships.

Unless you can explain what Hondo is for?

If you want to drop Strom, go with Mauler because Dengar will allow him to keep moving and dealing damage.

Of course Bossk! Definately put him in and remove Hondo.

It might be worth swapping the non-flagship ISD I out for a Kuat. With two ISD I's you have more squadron commanding and flight commanders than you need. With a Kuat you would get a nice finisher ship that could roll up with External racks and leading shots to blast away a big ship your squads have hammered.

Commander: Admiral Motti

Assault: Advanced Gunnery
Defense: Fighter Ambush
Navigation: Superior Positions

Imperial I (110)
• Admiral Motti (24)
• Flight Controllers (6)
• Boosted Comms (4)
• Chimaera (4)
• All fighters, Follow Me! (5)
= 153 Points

Imperial Kuat Refit (112)
• External Racks (3)
• Leading Shots(4)
= 119 Points

Squadrons:
• Maarek Stele (21)
• Morna Kee (27)
• Colonel Jendon (20)
• Dengar (20)
• Bossk (23)
• Zertik Strom (15)
= 126 Points

Total Points: 398 Points

Just a thought!

You definitely need some way of rerolling your ship dice. You're too dependent on luck. I would drop Chimaera and your fleet command for two Leading Shots.

If you did that and swapped Hondo for Bossk ( who with flight controllers rolls and average of 3.5 damage per attack on squads AND has respectable anti ship) that leaves you 2 pts over - a pair of skilled first officers?

Here's my suggestion for @Herr Style 's revised Aces High build:

ISD Cymoon 1 Refit (112)
• Admiral Motti (24)
• All fighters, Follow Me! (5)
• Flight Controllers (6)
• Boosted Comms (4)
= 151 Points

ISD Kuat Refit (112)
• Strategic Adviser (4)
• Leading Shots (4)
• External Racks (3)
= 123 Points

Squadrons:
• Morna Kee (27)
• Bossk (23)
• Maarek Stele (21)
• Colonel Jendon (20)
• Dengar (20)
• Zertik Strom (15)
= 126 Points

Total Points: 400

Assault: Advanced Gunnery
Defense: Fighter Ambush
Navigation: Solar Corona

-------------------------------------------------------

The ISD1 is a solid carrier, but as a flagship it's not ideal because it needs to get in-close to inflict real damage, which is risky -- even with Motti. That's why I switched it to a Cymoon instead; now it can stand-off and bombard enemy ships with red dice while using Boosted Comms to activate squadrons at long range. Another benefit is the Cymoon comes with a Fleet Command slot so you don't need Chimaera.

For the second ISD, I chose the Kuat because, as Alpharius18 pointed out, you had more squadron activations than you needed and the Kuat is the superior close-range threat. Also, the Kuat can use Leading Shots with any of its firing arcs, whereas an ISD1 couldn't use them in its side arcs. If I had more points to work with I would've chosen APT instead of External Racks.

The Cymoon provides 3 squadron activations and the Kuat 2; that's 5, and there are 6 squadrons. That shouldn't be a problem because Morna Kee and Bossk have Rogue so they can wait until the Squadron Phase, if necessary; or Squadron tokens can be banked in Round 1 and used to activate an extra squadron later. Morna and Jendon should be activated by the Kuat because they shouldn't need Flight Controllers because neither should be attacking squadrons; and the squadron that Jendon allows to attack again (presumably Maarek Stele) can't use FC anyway.

I also added Strategic Adviser to the Kuat to help with ship activations, since this build only has 2 ships. I would always activate the the Cymoon first so the 4 anti-squadron Aces could attack first, then the Kuat could choose whether to use SA or activate second.

I'll give this build a try and see how it goes.

1 minute ago, Reavern said:

I also added Strategic Adviser to the Kuat to help with ship activations, since this build only has 2 ships.

I would recommend a similarly priced alternative (perhaps the Vader boarding party, or Hondo + APTs, or even Palpatine.)

3 activations is very rarely going to do much, when there are more reliable effects out there. Even most SSD fleets have 4.

The carrier Cymoon is interesting, though.

I love the Kuat subbing in for one ISD-I. I reeeeeaaaallly don’t like the Cymoon going in for the other.

With 4 non-Rogue squadrons, I think you want a native squadron value of 4 on one ship, without having to rely on a token. The Kuat should probably never queue a squadron command all game; those things need Nav and ConFire and maybe even Engineering.

Also, you absolutely NEED a reliable reroll option on both Destroyers; they’re each gonna get maybe 1-2 good front-arc shots in a game against many opponents. You cannot afford to whiff. Leading Shots is probably your best bet. Chimaera & Entrapment Formation are not important.

Fleet Command upgrades tend to (not an absolute, here) gain value the more ships they meaningfully affect each game. You don’t have a great mechanism for generating tokens, so that leads me to believe you plan on using any given command card only once per game (maybe twice if you discard it). As I’m fond of pointing out, unless you plan to feed it just about every turn, most of the Fleet Commands are just not good as one-offs, and the cards are even worse when they only have two ships to help. Entrapment Formation, as an example, will provide these two ships with an extra speed change on one turn, something that can be accomplished with a Nav token anyway. Considering that you need to spend a Nav token to get the card to work, you’re saving yourself one token. And spending nine points for it. Shields to Maximum buys you all of two shields, if you time it right. Intensify Firepower flips two blanks into hits, if you time it right. Take Evasive Action does... something... for you, but not a lot. The only Fleet Command I would even find sort of valuable here would be All Fighters, Follow Me... but as a once-per-game speed boost, is it really worth 9 points?

Hi guys,

thanks for the input so far. After careful consideration I’m thinking this, with either JJ or for an extra point Motti: -

Commander: Moff Jerjerrod

Assault:
Defense:
Navigation:

Imperial I (110)
• Flight Controllers (6)
• Boosted Comms (4)
= 120 Points

ISD Kuat Refit (112)
• Moff Jerjerrod (23)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Assault Concussion Missiles (7)
• Avenger (5)
= 151 Points

Squadrons:
• Bossk (23)
• Colonel Jendon (20)
• Dengar (20)
• Morna Kee (27)
• VT-49 Decimator (22)
• Zertik Strom (15)
= 127 Points

Total Points: 398

Alpha strike from Zertik, Bossk, Col J and Dengar, ISD I, then Kuat, followed by my two Rogues. First off is Zertik, reroll one die minimum no matter what result to give Bossk his accuracy. Then double tap from Bossk with Col J. Seems a good plan anyway.

2 hours ago, Herr Style said:

Hi guys,

thanks for the input so far. After careful consideration I’m thinking this, with either JJ or for an extra point Motti: -

Commander: Moff Jerjerrod

Assault:
Defense:
Navigation:

Imperial I (110)
• Flight Controllers (6)
• Boosted Comms (4)
= 120 Points

ISD Kuat Refit (112)
• Moff Jerjerrod (23)
• Ordnance Experts (4)
• Assault Concussion Missiles (7)
• Avenger (5)
= 151 Points

Squadrons:
• Bossk (23)
• Colonel Jendon (20)
• Dengar (20)
• Morna Kee (27)
• VT-49 Decimator (22)
• Zertik Strom (15)
= 127 Points

Total Points: 398

Alpha strike from Zertik, Bossk, Col J and Dengar, ISD I, then Kuat, followed by my two Rogues. First off is Zertik, reroll one die minimum no matter what result to give Bossk his accuracy. Then double tap from Bossk with Col J. Seems a good plan anyway.

That looks pretty solid! I think two things would do you good: a bid, and ECMs on the Kuat Refit, but I think you’re about where you want to be.

12 hours ago, Reavern said:

Here's my suggestion for @Herr Style 's revised Aces High build:

ISD Cymoon 1 Refit (112)
• Admiral Motti (24)
• All fighters, Follow Me! (5)
• Flight Controllers (6)
• Boosted Comms (4)
= 151 Points

ISD Kuat Refit (112)
• Strategic Adviser (4)
• Leading Shots (4)
• External Racks (3)
= 123 Points

Squadrons:
• Morna Kee (27)
• Bossk (23)
• Maarek Stele (21)
• Colonel Jendon (20)
• Dengar (20)
• Zertik Strom (15)
= 126 Points

Total Points: 400

Assault: Advanced Gunnery
Defense: Fighter Ambush
Navigation: Solar Corona

There are some parts, that just will not work this well.

• All Fighters follow me: You will only able to use it one or two times. Just because you will never have the token for it. You need a Comms Net Gozanti for it, or Tarkin as commander.
• Again All Fighters: You cannot activate enough squadrons via the ships to have such a use out of All Fighters. And Stele has already speed 5. Combined with the 3 Command Stacks of the ISDs, you have no chance to time it this well.
• You have 4 squadrons that you need to activate, but can only activate 3 with the Cymoon. This means one is flying around without command, or you need both ships with squadron commands.
• Strategic Adviser is not really helping with only two ships. 3 activations does not change this much. Your opponent will, most likely, always last/first you. Pryce would even be more usefull than SA.
• Flight Controllers are really expensive, for only 3 squadrons that you can activate. And it is not even working on Jendons special. Quite a few points, for an average of two extra blue dice.

One of the problems is, that you use ships out of their prefered job. Kuat and Cymoon are not really good carriers for squadrons. On top, two ISD and nearly full squadrons, does not give so much room for upgrades.
There is a reason that the other double ISD lists have no squadrons. And that a full squadron fleet have normally not two large ships.

Tokra does bring up a good point, in that there are other ways to build a 2-ISD list. You could go squadronless. Personally not my favorite, but people do make it work. I’m not gonna advise you on how to do that.

Another way is to go a bit lighter on squadrons. A lot of people have trouble making 70-90 points of squadrons work, but I think it can be done. You’re still gonna lose the squadron game to heavy fighter fleets, but if you have perhaps a third ship and maybe a Strategic Advisor, you might be in okay shape. You can also try a very small squadron presence (Valen/Ciena being, I think, the smallest viable one, at 30points), and a pretty dangerous third threat like Demolisher.

3 hours ago, Tokra said:

There are some parts, that just will not work this well.

• All Fighters follow me: You will only able to use it one or two times. Just because you will never have the token for it. You need a Comms Net Gozanti for it, or Tarkin as commander.
• Again All Fighters: You cannot activate enough squadrons via the ships to have such a use out of All Fighters. And Stele has already speed 5. Combined with the 3 Command Stacks of the ISDs, you have no chance to time it this well.
• You have 4 squadrons that you need to activate, but can only activate 3 with the Cymoon. This means one is flying around without command, or you need both ships with squadron commands.
• Strategic Adviser is not really helping with only two ships. 3 activations does not change this much. Your opponent will, most likely, always last/first you. Pryce would even be more usefull than SA.
• Flight Controllers are really expensive, for only 3 squadrons that you can activate. And it is not even working on Jendons special. Quite a few points, for an average of two extra blue dice.

One of the problems is, that you use ships out of their prefered job. Kuat and Cymoon are not really good carriers for squadrons. On top, two ISD and nearly full squadrons, does not give so much room for upgrades.
There is a reason that the other double ISD lists have no squadrons. And that a full squadron fleet have normally not two large ships.

I presume @Herr Style 's intention for All Fighters Follow Me was to speed up the Speed-3 squadrons: Morna Kee, Bossk (originally Hondo), Dengar (originally Whisper), and Jendon, so they can engage the enemy's squadrons and ships sooner.

AFFM effects squadrons activated by all friendly ships, nor just the Cymoon.

I'm aware that the ISDs won't have a squadron token during Round 1. If I had more points to work with I would've added to Hondo.

Perhaps I should drop Strategic Adviser for Hondo and upgrade External Racks to APT. Although, it occurs to me that by the time the Kuat gets into close range of its primary target, it probably would've depleted the enemy ship's shields -- especially with Morna and Maarek's help -- so the black dice will probably hit the hull anyway. Since I can't afford ACM or Rapid Reload, I'll stick with External Racks. Since I'll have 2 points left, I could put Ozzel (Officer) on the Kuat to give it a head start; or maybe Needa on the Cymoon so it can Evade at long range.

ISD Cymoon 1 Refit (112)
• Admiral Motti (24)
• Captain Needa (2)
• All fighters, Follow Me! (5)
• Flight Controllers (6)
• Boosted Comms (4)
= 151 Points

ISD Kuat Refit (112)
• Hondo Onaka (2)
• Leading Shots (4)
• External Racks (3)
= 123 Points

Squadrons:
• Morna Kee (27)
• Bossk (23)
• Maarek Stele (21)
• Colonel Jendon (20)
• Dengar (20)
• Zertik Strom (15)
= 126 Points

Total Points: 400

Hondo would be discarded to place a Squadron token on the Cymoon and probably a Concentrate Fire token on the Kuat.

The Cymoon reveal a Squadron command Round 1, spend the Squadron token to trigger AFFM, and push Morna Kee, Bossk, and Dengar to Speed 4. The Kuat would also reveal a Squadron command and push Jendon and Strom. Maarek would activate during the Squadron Phase because AFFM doesn't help him. It's unlikely the squadrons would be in range to attack during Round 1 -- unless my opponent made my day by chosing the Fighter Ambush objective card.

In Round 2, the squadrons should get into attack range so AFFM can be used and discarded. The Cymoon and Kuat would reveal Squadron commands again.

If squadrons aren't already in range of enemy ships and squadrons, the Cymoon would activate:

1. Stele
2. Bossk
3. Strom

The Kuat would activate:

1. Dengar (should be moved within Distance 1 of Strom for Escort protection)
2. Jendon - allows Stele to attack again

Morna Kee would activate in the Squadron Phase because she has Rogue and the enemy ships probably moved closer by the end of the Ship Phase, so she might be able to move at Speed-3 and attack a ship in Round 2.

Strom has the option of tapping Bossk for a reroll and triggering Bossk's free Accuracy; however, ideally, Strom should wait until Round 3 because if Bossk remains undamaged in Round 2, the enemy should be dissuaded from attacking him in Round 2.

Alternatively, Morna could be activated by Kuat so she can move at Speed 4 and ideally move into range of an enemy ship to attack it.

Thanks again for all the input!

Just to clarify, and thankfully there have been no suggestions outside this, I only have one copy each of R&V, Sqn I and Sqn II, hence my Squadron choice.

I have a 3-ship Screed list in mind with ISD I, Kallus GSDII and Gozanti Comms Net with roughly the same fighters (plus one with an Interdictor instead of ISD). I just wanted to try and get both ISD’s on the board. I’m thinking for the points of just binning the AFFM. I like Kuats, but I’m leaning to an ISD I for my second ISD to command all my Sqns except my two rogue VT-49’s. That’s why I turned the Kuat into a kind of “Bruiser-Light”. My Objectives would be the same as my first post.

7 hours ago, Herr Style said:

Thanks again for all the input!

Just to clarify, and thankfully there have been no suggestions outside this, I only have one copy each of R&V, Sqn I and Sqn II, hence my Squadron choice.

I have a 3-ship Screed list in mind with ISD I, Kallus GSDII and Gozanti Comms Net with roughly the same fighters (plus one with an Interdictor instead of ISD). I just wanted to try and get both ISD’s on the board. I’m thinking for the points of just binning the AFFM. I like Kuats, but I’m leaning to an ISD I for my second ISD to command all my Sqns except my two rogue VT-49’s. That’s why I turned the Kuat into a kind of “Bruiser-Light”. My Objectives would be the same as my first post.

If you want to test out two ISDs, i would really suggest to use a non squadron version and use the extra points in upgrades, and focus on the ISDs.
Two ISD and two Gozanti, combined with Strategic Adviser, are working really well (unless you are playing against heavy squadrons...). Normally i would say Motti is a good choice, but Romodi is a nice alternative. or Vader for the rerolls.

Even against heavy squadrons there is a good answer now. The Linked Turbolaser Turret on one ISD could help to take them down really fast. A Cymoon, with the two Turbolaser slots, is a good choice for it. Only the black dice are limiting the range for the attacks a bit.

You Cymoon, ISD II, Gozanti, Gozanti. Upgrades: 2x Comms Net, Hondo, 2x Gunnery Team, Tua, 2x ECM (or Early Warning System), SA, Linked Turbo. Vader as Commander. And you have still 39 points free for upgrades.
It could even be possible to upgrade one Gozanti to a Raider. Or add Cienna + Valen as cheap squadron screen. And if you use Romondi instead of Vader, it is 16 more free points.

22 hours ago, Reavern said:

I presume @Herr Style 's intention for All Fighters.... [CUT]

With this list, i don't think the kuat can use his black dies...