13 minutes ago, Stan Fresh said:

Way to miss my point. good job. And in no way addresses the issue I clearly laid out. You know where I pointed out the original trilogy did not start with a known state of the Galaxy. But the Sequel Trilogy did. So any deviation from what is known for many people needs to be explained. And making jokes about that will not change that. It just makes you look like a jerk.

oh and

"The Rebellion will continue to gain support in the Imperial Senate…"
"The Imperial Senate will no longer be of any concern to us. I've just received word that the Emperor has dissolved the council permanently. The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away."

―Chief of the Imperial Army Cassio Tagge and Grand Moff Wilhuff Tarkin[src]

1 hour ago, Daeglan said:

he standard for willing suspension of disbelief is different for a cartoon than a sequel to a series of movies that have set a bar for what is expected.

A New Hope set the bar, yes - it's perfectly fine to wait two decades to find out some of the details implied by the movie.

Just now, Stan Fresh said:

A New Hope set the bar, yes - it's perfectly fine to wait two decades to find out some of the details implied by the movie.

The difference you keep ignoring is we did not have a known previous state for the galaxy before A New Hope. But for The Force Awakens we did have a known state. so not having an explanation of how the Enemy clearly defeated in the Previous movie pop back up causes questions many people want answers to. Ignoring that fact doesnt make you right. It just means you ignore the problem.

Because that doesn't matter.

Nobody needs a detailed explanation of Grievous or Dooku in the PT. We get all the morsels of info we need for the story to work.

Same here.

6 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

the Enemy clearly defeated in the Previous movie pop back up

Your knowledge of warfare is at about the same as your understanding of surveys, healthcare, politics and storytelling.

2 minutes ago, DanteRotterdam said:

Your knowledge of warfare is at about the same as your understanding of surveys, healthcare, politics and storytelling.

Oh look an ad hominem attack. Something I expect from someone who doesnt actually have an argument to address my issues.

People, including myself, did that on all your ‘arguments’ for hours on end and all were ignored, misinterpreted and rejected out of the gate because they didn’t fit your preconceived narrative. You have proven to have a gross misunderstanding of most of the things you have argued about for the past few days so it stands to reason that pointing out you are found lacking in something more is not an Ad Hominem.

If you want a real understanding of how a “defeated” empire can reestablish itself in Just a couple of decades you need only to look at Germany. Almost won WWI were heavily sanctioned and punished in the period after and then almost won WWII.

1 minute ago, DanteRotterdam said:

People, including myself, did that on all your ‘arguments’ for hours on end and all were ignored, misinterpreted and rejected out of the gate because they didn’t fit your preconceived narrative. You have proven to have a gross misunderstanding of most of the things you have argued about for the past few days so it stands to reason that pointing out you are found lacking in something more is not an Ad Hominem.

No. You guys have not addressed the problem. YOu say you don't have a problem with it. Well that does not fix the problem many people have. It is about as effective as saying nu uh. Well that is not convincing at all.

1 minute ago, DanteRotterdam said:

If you want a real understanding of how a “defeated” empire can reestablish itself in Just a couple of decades you need only to look at Germany. Almost won WWI were heavily sanctioned and punished in the period after and then almost won WWII.

Yes. but if you dont say how people are going to rightfully have questions they want answered as to how we got here. Saying it doesnt matter does not make those questions go away. It makes one pick at more of the unanswered questions.

9 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

but if you dont say how people are going to rightfully have questions they want answered as to how we got here.

Then those people need to learn how to think for themselves instead of needing every tidbit spoonfed to them. Movies have always left things up to the viewer to make their own kind about Star Wars even moreso.

4 minutes ago, DanteRotterdam said:

Then those people need to learn how to think for themselves instead of needing every tidbit spoonfed to them. Movies have always left things up to the viewer to make their own kind about Star Wars even moreso.

Or maybe the writers should do a better job of story telling since managing the willing suspension of disbelief is their job. If they are causing people to not do so that is on the writers. not the ones with questions.

44 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Way to miss my point. good job. And in no way addresses the issue I clearly laid out. You know where I pointed out the original trilogy did not start with a known state of the Galaxy. But the Sequel Trilogy did.

How exactly did the sequel trilogy start with a known state of the galaxy when Return Of The Jedi was over 30 years ago?

Not if the vast majority doesn’t experience that issue. And they didn’t.

7 minutes ago, micheldebruyn said:

How exactly did the sequel trilogy start with a known state of the galaxy when Return Of The Jedi was over 30 years ago?

Were they victorious at Endor or not? if not do you think people might want to know what happened and how the galaxy got to where it is? When you have a nagging question does having others say it doesnt matter actually address the question?

7 minutes ago, DanteRotterdam said:

Not if the vast majority doesn’t experience that issue. And they didn’t.

Isnt a vast majority from what I see.

8 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Or maybe the writers should do a better job of story telling since managing the willing suspension of disbelief is their job. If they are causing people to not do so that is on the writers. not the ones with questions.

No, creators don't need to answer every inane question someone who fails at watching movies has.

1 minute ago, Stan Fresh said:

No, creators don't need to answer every inane question someone who fails at watching movies has.

Isnt an inane question. no matter how many times you insist it is.

11 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Isnt a vast majority from what I see.

That is because you forego facts and operate in an echochamber

2 minutes ago, DanteRotterdam said:

That is because you forego facts and operate in an echochamber

another ad hominem attack. good job.

12 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Were they victorious at Endor or not? if not do you think people might want to know what happened and how the galaxy got to where it is? When you have a nagging question does having others say it doesnt matter actually address the question?

So let’s look at the state of the galaxy at the start of TFA-

The New Republic is firmly in place. There is no Empire. So, what you knew from the end of RotJ is still the case.

There is, however, the First Order, which seeks to follow in the Empire’s footsteps.

Events in the movie itself occur to destabilize the New Republic’s status quo and give them the opportunity to step in (namely, the New Republic’s capital is destroyed by the First Order’s new superweapon).

What information were you not provided that would impact the story’s narrative?

And, assuming there is something, why do you so particularly blame the second installment for what would be a shortcoming of the first?

1 hour ago, Daeglan said:

The Rebellion will continue to gain support in the Imperial Senate…"
"The Imperial Senate will no longer be of any concern to us. I've just received word that the Emperor has dissolved the council permanently. The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away."

―Chief of the Imperial Army Cassio Tagge and Grand Moff Wilhuff Tarkin[src]

What Imperial Senate?

What sort of powers did they have?

Who is the Emperor?

How did he have the power to dissolve what sounds like part of the government?

If he had the power to do that, why was it concerning for the Rebellion to gain sympathy with them?

What Old Republic? Isn’t it the Empire? That Ben guy mentioned the Old Republic, too. Why is the Empire in charge now? How come the Old Republic got replaced? How’d that happen?

I don’t know if I can accept this movie anymore. There are too many essential details missing. If I don’t know every detail of the background, I can’t willingly suspend my disbelief about this story of (checks notes) space wizards with laser swords fighting space Nazis.

10 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

So let’s look at the state of the galaxy at the start of TFA-

The New Republic is firmly in place. There is no Empire. So, what you knew from the end of RotJ is still the case.

There is, however, the First Order, which seeks to follow in the Empire’s footsteps.

Events in the movie itself occur to destabilize the New Republic’s status quo and give them the opportunity to step in (namely, the New Republic’s capital is destroyed by the First Order’s new superweapon).

What information were you not provided that would impact the story’s narrative?

And, assuming there is something, why do you so particularly blame the second installment for what would be a shortcoming of the first?

I would posit there is an empire in the form of the First order. And based on what we see in the Resistance cartoon and in the movie there is a significant enough presense that Leia started the resistance. Apparently because the New Republic was ignoring the First Order...

My questions are
Where did the First order come from?
Who is this Snoke Fella How did he get Ben Solo to fall to the darkside?
Who is Rey and how come she had such a rapid increase in force ability.
What happened to Luke

These are the questions I left The Force Awakens asking. Which had me excited to see the sequel to find out these questions answers.

Watch the Last Jedi and get
Rey is no body and ignore her continued massive ramp up in power level with no explanation.
Snoke doesnt matter we killed him.
The First order have a huge fleet now and has taken over the galaxy in a matter of hours and oh! can track you in hyperspace.
Luke is an A-Hole now.

So not only did the questions many had not get answered. they were basically given the middle finger for wanting to know.

2 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

What Imperial Senate?

What sort of powers did they have?

Who is the Emperor?

How did he have the power to dissolve what sounds like part of the government?

If he had the power to do that, why was it concerning for the Rebellion to gain sympathy with them?

What Old Republic? Isn’t it the Empire? That Ben guy mentioned the Old Republic, too. Why is the Empire in charge now? How come the Old Republic got replaced? How’d that happen?

I don’t know if I can accept this movie anymore. There are too many essential details missing. If I don’t know every detail of the background, I can’t willingly suspend my disbelief about this story of (checks notes) space wizards with laser swords fighting space Nazis.

The difference is this is the first movie of the series. the sequels started answering those questions. not all of them but many of them. The obvious questions created by the Force Awakens were completely ignored in The Last Jedi. Where as in Empire we got to see a Holo of the Emperor and see Vaders Reaction to him. Hans bounty with Jabba came to a head. and so on.

The difference you guys keep ignoring is we had NOTHING before A New Hope. That is not true for A Force Awakens. The Force Awakens starts with a disconnect. Which should have been addressed at least a little in The Last Jedi. It wasnt. We just had the First Order has this massive fleet that apparently no one noticed and we run this place now....and constantly being to told to shut up about your questions doesnt make them go away. As a Role Player why do you completely ignore these world building questions?

3 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

We just had the First Order has this massive fleet that apparently no one noticed and we run this place now..

Yeah remember when AotC introduced TWO entire armies and fleets that nobody noticed?