Just now, StarkJunior said:

All across North America in about 25 cities. They estimate about a 65% response rate and 6% margin of error.

PostTrak does the top 20 markets in the US and Canada.

what 25 cities? how do they pick their respondents.

2 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

what 25 cities? how do they pick their respondents.

They are randomly chosen cities.

Just now, StarkJunior said:

They are randomly chosen cities.

which is still easy to manipulate.

3 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

I feel a hidden methodology is a piss poor methodology that is ripe for manipulating.

Like RT?

I find it quite telling that aa soon as you read something that doesn’t echo your opinion you instantly try to find fault with the source instead of reflecting on what you yourself are bringing to the table.

2 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

which is still easy to manipulate.

Oh for crying out loud...

7 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

which is still easy to manipulate.

Manipulate in what way, exactly? I've been polled by CinemaScore - the cards are the same for every movie they poll. They choose random cities precisely to get a large swath of opinion and they poll you right when you leave, so there's not anything manipulative about it at all.

Amazing how you're so dependent upon all of this information about these two polling companies, but yeah, RT is fine and dandy and not without severe problems.

CinemaScore and PostTrak are the most accurate polling services in the industry and are generally accurate (whether or not CinemaScore or PostTrak is the more accurate one is debated, but both are held in high regard).

1 minute ago, StarkJunior said:

Amazing how you're so dependent upon all of this information about these two polling companies, but yeah, RT is fine and dandy and not without severe problems.

It tells you all you need to know about the intellectual honesty of the discussion and how useless it is to keep it up.

1 minute ago, StarkJunior said:

Manipulate in what way, exactly? I've been polled by CinemaScore - the cards are the same for every movie they poll. They choose random cities precisely to get a large swath of opinion and they poll you right when you leave, so there's not manipulative about it at all.

Amazing how you're so dependent upon all of this information about these two polling companies, but yeah, RT is fine and dandy and not without severe problems.

CinemaScore and PostTrak are the most accurate polling services in the industry and are generally accurate (whether or not CinemaScore or PostTrak is the more accurate one is debated, but both are held in high regard).

you choose who you ask. You choose which theater you go to. It is easy to pick the results you want especially if you know what democgraphic you want to target to get your results. also the sample size it pretty small which makes it even easier to manipulate your results. So if you want to really get good clean results you need a much much much larger sampling from a much mcu more diverse set of cities. 25 cities is a pretty small sampling. and depending on which cities and what rates you sample in each city that is another place where you can manipulate the numbers.

7 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

you choose who you ask. You choose which theater you go to. It is easy to pick the results you want especially if you know what democgraphic you want to target to get your results. also the sample size it pretty small which makes it even easier to manipulate your results. So if you want to really get good clean results you need a much much much larger sampling from a much mcu more diverse set of cities. 25 cities is a pretty small sampling. and depending on which cities and what rates you sample in each city that is another place where you can manipulate the numbers.

The pollster doesn't choose - the company does, and they are a neutral source. The pollster doesn't ask you, they give you a card and you answer. They are have no horse in the race - movies want to know data, good or bad, so they use CinemaScore (and PostTrak). They are unbiased, neutral sources. CinemaScore has been around since 1978, and have largely perfected their methodology.

The 25 cities are diverse - that's the whole point. You get WAY more of a representation of people by directly polling the general movie-going audience at the theater itself, since the vast majority of people don't go on RT or Reddit to post about it, or leave a review.

But, seriously, why are you placing so much scrutiny on these, but you're perfectly fine with just spitting out the RT score with no further analysis?

Sure, buddy.... Sure.
Those trusted sources that have been around for decades and serve as an industry standard are there to manipulate people. You win!

2 minutes ago, StarkJunior said:

But, seriously, why are you placing so much scrutiny on these, but you're perfectly fine with just spitting out the RT score with no further analysis?

Because they tell him that he is right.

4 minutes ago, StarkJunior said:

The pollster doesn't choose - the company does, and they are a neutral source. The pollster doesn't ask you, they give you a card and you answer. They are have no horse in the race - movies want to know data, good or bad, so they use CinemaScore (and PostTrak). They are unbiased, neutral sources. CinemaScore has been around since 1978, and have largely perfected their methodology.

The 25 cities are diverse - that's the whole point. You get WAY more of a representation of people by directly polling the general movie-going audience at the theater itself, since the vast majority of people don't go on RT or Reddit to post about it, or leave a review.

But, seriously, why are you placing so much scrutiny on these, but you're perfectly fine with just spitting out the RT score with no further analysis?

The company choosing means it can be manipulated.

4 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

The company choosing means it can be manipulated.

You're thinking of RT, which can be manipulated, because the score is aggregated in real-time and the more bad reviews you throw on - or positive - skews the results, and you get **** like 7/10 meaning 100% and a "mixed" reaction making it Rotten/Not Recommended. It's what they used to review bomb TLJ, Black Panther, and Captain Marvel.

It's why RT and Metacritic are terrible.

CinemaScore and PostTrak are not manipulated.

Yeah, because polling companies are in dire need of unreliable numbers so that they can... no wait...

we have 2 views on the Luke that are in many ways its like the number 9 on the ground. if you come from under it you say that its a 9 BUT if you come from above it then it looks like a 6. they are right from the point of the viewer and booth will see themselves as being right. that is what I meant with my post on politics it shows to me how you came upon the 9 (ie your frame of reference) I was wrong for being so blunt and not explain myself

11 minutes ago, StarkJunior said:

The pollster doesn't choose - the company does, and they are a neutral source. The pollster doesn't ask you, they give you a card and you answer. They are have no horse in the race - movies want to know data, good or bad, so they use CinemaScore (and PostTrak). They are unbiased, neutral sources. CinemaScore has been around since 1978, and have largely perfected their methodology.

The 25 cities are diverse - that's the whole point. You get WAY more of a representation of people by directly polling the general movie-going audience at the theater itself, since the vast majority of people don't go on RT or Reddit to post about it, or leave a review.

But, seriously, why are you placing so much scrutiny on these, but you're perfectly fine with just spitting out the RT score with no further analysis?

well 25 cities are not diverse at all you ONLY get the view of people who live in cities and people in the city tend to be different then the ones out side of the city just look at how they vote.

2 minutes ago, Oldmike1 said:

well 25 cities are not diverse at all you ONLY get the view of people who live in cities and people in the city tend to be different then the ones out side of the city just look at how they vote.

I hope you’re joking. I really do.

48 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

which is still easy to manipulate.

What? How? What? Are you for real? Pull the other one.

2 hours ago, MB -Fr- said:

do you know the concept of sample? a sample is representative of the whole

ergo if roughly 50% of the sampled viewers disliked it, then by definition around 50% of the greater whole disliked it. that's statistics. there is no need for every viewer to review it

and as a frequent reader of r/movies, I can tell you I have absolutely no trouble believing that around 50% of the viewers disliked this movie

I’m well aware of the concept. RT’s audience scores - positive or negative - aren’t an effective sample, because they rely on respondents going to them, rather than seeking out respondents themselves. By contrast, Cinemascore seeks out respondents as they leave the theater on opening weekend, so a slightly more reliable sample, but also skewed as the audience opening weekend is likely more invested in what they just saw.

2 hours ago, Daeglan said:

yeah... I find your logic on Rotten Tomatoes flawed.

In what way? As noted in my preceding post, their methodology isn’t reliable, as it depends on respondents coming to them.

8 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

In what way? As noted in my preceding post, their methodology isn’t reliable, as it depends on respondents coming to them.

I find it way more accurate to have nearly 300k responses than to have less than 5k and claim more accuracy.

2 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

I find it way more accurate to have nearly 300k responses than to have less than 5k and claim more accuracy.

Rotten Tomatoes has been proven to be easily manipulated by Spam voting and bot voting. You can't do that when people are being polled directly as they leave the theater.

4 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

I find it way more accurate to have nearly 300k responses than to have less than 5k and claim more accuracy.

Can you verify each of those 200k+ have actually seen the film, and that a large part of them are not deliberately lowering the score for some nonsense agenda?

No, you can’t.

1 minute ago, Daeglan said:

I find it way more accurate to have nearly 300k responses than to have less than 5k and claim more accuracy.

RT can’t guarantee that those 300k actually saw the movie and are unique respondents.

CS, on the other hand can absolutely guarantee the former and, based on their methodology of polling on a single night, can greatly increase the likelihood of the latter (as it’s uncommon for people to take in multiple viewings on the same night).

10 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

RT can’t guarantee that those 300k actually saw the movie and are unique respondents.

CS, on the other hand can absolutely guarantee the former and, based on their methodology of polling on a single night, can greatly increase the likelihood of the latter (as it’s uncommon for people to take in multiple viewings on the same night).

Sure. But the odds are better that the data is better based on volume. And As I noted it is pretty easy to manipulate the results the CS gets. You just have to pick the theaters to get the demographics. you want. You think it is more accurate. I don't. They make claims but since I dont see much transparency I dont believe their claims. Having worked in Hollywood I have seen how things work behind the curtain. And while sure they might be bots manipulating things. I dont think that is as prevalent as they claimed.