10 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

We do not know how much time passed on the Falcom. You assume 5 minutes. That does not mean it was only 5 minutes. that is just what we saw.

If only I’d mentioned that. Wait...I did.

From context when we join the scene - Luke is training against the remote, and is visibly frustrated at his lack of success - we can infer that, however long it’s been, it hasn’t been going well. It is after we join the scene that Obi-Wan puts the blast helmet on Luke. Luke is confused by this, so we can clearly infer he hasn’t done it in the training up to this point. Obi-Wan gives him a primer on how to listento the Force, and what to expect. From Luke’s reaction, this appears to be the first time he’s heard any of it.

But sure, before that brief “Force Use Getting Started” guide, I guess Obi-Wan told him, “Dude! Once you get the hang of this Force stuff, you can TOTALLY force small doors open, hurl crap through the air, and jump 20 meters at a time. It is SO! WILD!”

I guess Move is another Blofeld.

24 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

We do not know how much time passed on the Falcom. You assume 5 minutes. That does not mean it was only 5 minutes. that is just what we saw.

I suggest you rewatch the movie before you make such comments.

Luke starts messing with the training bot.

He wines a bit.

ObiWan closes his visor.

He wines some more.

Obi Wan makes a remark about the force.

He deflects one shot from the droid.

They arrive at Alderaan.

Trapped in beam,

Obi walks off.

Thats is all that happens and it is obvious to anyone with half a brain that that is indeed all of it.

2 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

If only I’d mentioned that. Wait...I did.

From context when we join the scene - Luke is training against the remote, and is visibly frustrated at his lack of success - we can infer that, however long it’s been, it hasn’t been going well. It is after we join the scene that Obi-Wan puts the blast helmet on Luke. Luke is confused by this, so we can clearly infer he hasn’t done it in the training up to this point. Obi-Wan gives him a primer on how to listento the Force, and what to expect. From Luke’s reaction, this appears to be the first time he’s heard any of it.

But sure, before that brief “Force Use Getting Started” guide, I guess Obi-Wan told him, “Dude! Once you get the hang of this Force stuff, you can TOTALLY force small doors open, hurl crap through the air, and jump 20 meters at a time. It is SO! WILD!”

I guess Move is another Blofeld.

You assume things didnt happen. I assume that what we see on screen for training is not all that happened. Also we didnt see Luke move anything with the force till empire. But we do not know what he may have learned from Ben's force ghost. We don't know how Luke has been training. but clearly he has been. I dont assume what happens on screen is all that happened. And seeing on screen snippets of training makes characters picking up new abilities more acceptable.

9 minutes ago, RuusMarev said:

My only issue with the women in the ST is that they are poorly written in my opinion. Rey super powerful in the Force? Awesome, show me how she knows.

Then Luke was written poorly, as well.

10 minutes ago, RuusMarev said:

thought the intro to Tiko was good, then she didn't have much of a purpose.. They could have substituted Poe and built up from Awakens. The Casino run didn't make sense for me.. Rose had a rough childhood and she hated the elite stepping on the little guy. Ok, thats some backstory and motivation, and Kelly did a good job acting, its just Rose was underused in my opinion.

Poe going to Canto Bight with Finn doesn’t serve either of their character arcs. Poe has to learn to be a leader instead of the Big D@mn Hero, and Finn has to see discover what’s worth fighting for instead of hiding from the conflict. If they both go to Canto Bight, Poe’s personality dominates Finn’s, and isn’t interested in making sure Finn sees beneath the gilded surface, while Poe swaggers around proving, once again, what a Big D@mn Hero he is.

14 minutes ago, RuusMarev said:

Holdo, was treated bad too.. I understand Poe is a hot head, and she didn't know him.. but If she pulled him off to the side and quietly reprimanded him and told him there was a plan, but due to Operational Security, she wasn't prepared to tell him. There are professional ways to rein in your troops, if you belittle them in public, they tend to do stupid things.

One of the big themes of the movie is learning from failure. Holdo never told Poe there wasn’t a plan. She told him that he wasn’t entitled to know it due to his demotion. He pushed some more, so she pushed back. Should insubordination be rewarded by kid glove treatment?

1 minute ago, Daeglan said:

I dont assume what happens on screen is all that happened.

Not when it furthers your point you don’t.

Just now, DanteRotterdam said:

Not when it furthers your point you don’t.

If we see some training I dont assume that is all the training. If we dont see any training ever happen and then we have someone who thought the force was a myth suddenly using force powers that is kind of jarring.

1 minute ago, Daeglan said:

You assume things didnt happen. I assume that what we see on screen for training is not all that happened. Also we didnt see Luke move anything with the force till empire. But we do not know what he may have learned from Ben's force ghost.

As far as we know what he learned from Ben’s Force ghost was...nothing. Absolutely nothing. (BTW, Force ghost? Something else that wasn’t a thing until Empire. In Star Wars, Luke heard Obi-Wan’s disembodied voice a couple of times and reacted as if he was sure he was imagining it.

When you undergo training, do you get advanced techniques before the intro? That’s what you’re suggesting happened in the first movie. (You’re really big on wanting the sequels to show you every little thing on screen, but are hand waving a lot that you take on faith in the originals.)

6 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

We don't know how Luke has been training. but clearly he has been.

Why “clearly?” Because he does something that neither he nor the audience saw done before?

7 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

And seeing on screen snippets of training makes characters picking up new abilities more acceptable.

So...show us Luke’s training in Move, so that you will find the sudden introduction of a power we’d never seen before more acceptable.

19 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

As far as we know what he learned from Ben’s Force ghost was...nothing. Absolutely nothing. (BTW, Force ghost? Something else that wasn’t a thing until Empire. In Star Wars, Luke heard Obi-Wan’s disembodied voice a couple of times and reacted as if he was sure he was imagining it.

When you undergo training, do you get advanced techniques before the intro? That’s what you’re suggesting happened in the first movie. (You’re really big on wanting the sequels to show you every little thing on screen, but are hand waving a lot that you take on faith in the originals.)

Why “clearly?” Because he does something that neither he nor the audience saw done before?

So...show us Luke’s training in Move, so that you will find the sudden introduction of a power we’d never seen before more acceptable.

You keep assuming that the only training luke did was that little bit of training on the Falcon is all the training Luke did between A New Hope and Empire. And I am saying since we see luke do some training I assume he did other training on his own or possibly with Obi Wan's Force ghost. there are 3 years between a New Hope and Empire. that is enough time for luke to figure some stuff out on his own. there is zero time between The Force Awakens and the Last Jedi. and in a few hours Rey goes from knowing nothing to knowing how to use influence...

The only thing Rey does in TFA and TLJ is move rocks and push a dude out of her mind and call a lightsaber to her hands. We already know she's a competent fighter from the scene on Jakku where she beats down the guys who try to take BB-8.

Nothing Rey does is any more fantastical than what Luke does in ANH or ESB - and both of them have training in the second films, more than they had in the first.

Call it like it is, either Luke has the exact same problems as Rey, or there's something about Rey that makes it not allowed for you to accept it.

In all fairness, being a "main big bad" isn't hugely important to the plot. Whomever is being an antagonist to appose the hero however is much more important.

The Emperor isn't Luke's primary antagonist. Sure, he is the pure evil guy who ultimately holds immersable political clout but he exists as a faciliator for the conflict between Vader and Luke. Vader spends pretty much all three movies being Luke's antagonist and is regularly the primary force behind the story between those two characters. He started off as an immerse adversary that was the right hand man of Grand Moff Tarkin, then he personally lead the attack on Hoth in order to secure the young man with a motive that was mysterious right up until the final reveal. That started a conflict between the two that eventually ended with Vader being defeated. Once Vader was defeated and Luke was able to convince him that the hero he once was lay underneath that shell, he did the right thing and ended the Emperor's life decisively at the cost of his own life. While the Emperor was the Big Bad Evil Guy of the setting, his relationship with Luke wasn't very important but more of an environmental hazard that Skywalker had to overcome as the personification of true evil. Otherwise, he had very little role in the story at large until the final movie. No, the story of Luke was pretty much whether Vader could be redeemed, or Luke be turned rather then whether he was capable of defeating the Emperor.

Likewise Kylo Ren was Rey's primary antagonist from the moment they met. His killing of her mentor/father figure in Han Solo and his desire to claim her, first to kill her, then corrupt her was pretty much pivotal to her character arc. He was an antagonistic force that constantly apposed her innocent belief in the Jedi and hated absolutely everything in the universe but her. Snoke didn't much care for her right until the point she was placed right before him and even then; the supreme leader only cared for her as far as it would affect Ben Solo. Same dynamic as Luke and the Emperor; he existed as a plot device to force the conflict between these two otherwise reluctant characters. Rey defeated him the first time to save her life, but this time she failed in her goal to redeem Kylo and stop this madness; instead he had fell further in killing Snoke and obtaining the power he wanted and only desired her to stand with him and watch the galaxy burn, together. Probably main success of Rise of Skywalker was playing this volatile relationship between these two characters; Kylo was both an irresistible force of temptation and was an adversary that constantly hounded her, and he almost succeeded too; Rey wasn't ever able to overcome or reason with him and required intervention to do so.

What does all this mean? Just simply means the biggest guy in the room doesn't necessarily mean they are the main villain of the piece. The Emperor was an tiny old man because Vader was the adversary Luke had to overcome, not the Emperor. Likewise Snoke existed as a mechanism for Kylo to be forced into conflict with Rey, especially after his desire to kill her had abated. Snoke wasn't even an adversary of the resistance necessarily; to him they were like crushing ants and none of them had a personal connection to him, or even any attempt to assassinate or deal with him. He just existed as an environmental hazard for the heroes to navigate. Just because they are the BBEG, doesn't make them the main villain of the piece.

The interesting thing about the Last Jedi was that it made Kylo Ren a main character on his own, anti-heroic journey with Snoke as his primary antagonist. They make very clear at the outset that Snoke very strongly desires to own this young man and has the raw power in both manpower and the force to bring his pet to heel, he only desires Kylo because he is an effective general and a powerful warrior that he could mould to challenge Luke Skywalker should he return. Kylo Ren resents this man but feels he needs his power to overcome the demon in his life, Luke Skywalker. Throughout the movie we see him grapple with his desire, discovers Rey whom both understands his pain and isolation and through that finds new strength to overcome the man whom is manipulating his entire destiny. He succeeded only to become everything Snoke represented; a powerful and deeply corruptedleader of the First Order filled with a burning desire to bring the galaxy to heel instead of choosing to be with Rey as Ben.

Finn had Phasma. Sort of. Probably why he's such a meh character, after the first movie they couldn't find anything for him to do that couldn't be done better by any of the other characters on the main cast. Even his heroic act of self sacrifice was shallow because if Rey didn't beat the Emperor, it literally didn't mean anything since the resistance would've just failed anyway. He only did stuff because another character enabled him which is Kinda tragic now I think about it.


Edit: Honestly? I feel Luke would've gone through a similar journey Annie (who was racing pods and blowing up capital ships even before any training) and Rey had the order of movies been reversed. Given with minimal training he blew up a Death Star and was able to move objects with his mind in times of great urgency, I assume most people with the force exhibit some super natural ability or, cooler yet, destiny actually rewrites reality to ensure they don't come to any harm. Pretty neat given that the force is literally destiny personaified into a handy catch all goodie bag of tropes. Given how regularly Lucas messed with his movies I wouldn't be too surprised if he had redone them, they would've been in a similar vein to the newer movies of the PT era.

31 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

You keep assuming that the only training luke did was that little bit of training on the Falcon is all the training Luke did between A New Hope and Empire. And I am saying since we see luke do some training I assume he did other training on his own or possibly with Obi Wan's Force ghost. there are 3 years between a New Hope and Empire. that is enough time for luke to figure some stuff out on his own. there is zero time between The Force Awakens and the Last Jedi. and in a few hours Rey goes from knowing nothing to knowing how to use influence...

You like that a lot could have happened off screen in those three years between Episodes IV and V, but you also hate that a lot could have happened off screen during the thirty years between Episodes VI and VII.

14 minutes ago, micheldebruyn said:

You like that a lot could have happened off screen in those three years between Episodes IV and V, but you also hate that a lot could have happened off screen during the thirty years between Episodes VI and VII.

There is a difference between completely changing a character and them getting a couple new skills. They took an optimistic look and turned him into a crochety *******. Theat even Mark Hamill hated playing.

2 hours ago, RuusMarev said:

At least they showed Luke being taught before he managed any Force shenanigans.. In fact, he was training before he leveled up.. my problem with Rey is that her treatment goes against every depiction of Force users. (not including Broom-boy) Anakin only had very good reflexes/insight while racing.. we'll assume Luke did as well.. Obi-wan taught them, then they showed Force powers... Ezra Bridger was much the same, good reflexes, no powers. until taught.

The only rationalization for Rey was some outside movie explanation. "She 'downloaded' Kylo's training during her interrogation." or Snokes comment of Light rises to meet the Darkness.. which just sounds lazy. (light rises makes sense lore wise, but not as an explanation on how she knew how to do something.

Her being able to pilot could've been brought up by Unkar Plutt: telling her he needs her to fly a shipment to the next settlement in the coming days as he hands her the portions, and he can pay her ten more for the delivery. Piloting ability, check.

Force powers? possible explanation by Han as they travel? "one time I saw Luke doing this, he explained to me how he did it.. that he could feel.. ect... " limited access to maybe learning powers, check.

Rey "downloading" information from Kylo is actually shown within the movie itself, though. This is how she knew that Kylo was afraid that he'd never be as strong as Vader, his idol.

2 hours ago, Nytwyng said:

Really?

Obi-Wan had him wave a lightsaber around for 5 minutes in the Falcon, and made a single successful deflection. Later in the same movie, he’s using the Force to guide him to a one-in-a-million shot to blow up a space station the size of a small moon.

Fast forward to Empire. In his second scene he’s pulling his saber to him with the Force? When did that become a thing, and how did he know how to do it?

How did Luke know how to use telekinesis/Move?

Well, it was mentioned by her, in much the same way that a certain farmboy’s flying skills were. (“You bet! I’m not such a bad pilot myself.”) If we want to include the Special Edition footage, his childhood buddy vouches for him, so apparently just a friend saying he’s “the best bush pilot in the Outer Rim” is enough to establish him as skilled enough to be one of only three surviving pilots in the final attack.

Or maybe having heard tales of the mythic Luke Skywalker? Which she clearly had, because she recognizes the name and says she thought he was just a myth when Finn mentions Luke.

Not only that, but, once they make orbit, and she and Finn have a chance to actually talk, She specifically tells him that she has been training to fly in simulators.

1 hour ago, RuusMarev said:

Look, I was fine with Rey having crazy powers in Rise. There was a time jump and it's established that Leia has being teaching her, and Rey also has the Achto Books. If they showed her moving the Crait rocks at that point, cool.

I'm not trying to be a bad guy here, It's just a matter of consistency.. just because Rey is a woman, I'm not supposed to question? If this movie opened up with a male Rey on Jaku, doing these crazy Force powers with no training, or explanation, I would be saying the same thing. If Last Jedi opened a week after the Lightsaber hand off, with Luke showing Rey the ropes, then she pulls off the Crait rock ability? Awesome, clearly a better student then Luke in Empire.

1 hour ago, DanteRotterdam said:

Nope, the problem is quite the inverse. Many people question BECAUSE she is a woman and that is what is making people annoyed.

Unfortunately, this is true. There are a lot of people on the net as a whole railing against Rey simply because of her gender. Regardless, Rey was getting training, and was practicing Force techniques, as well as the lightsaber, during her time on Ahch-to. We see some of her training, though, obviously, not all of it. But we can infer from what we do see, that she was practicing different things, and probably even sneaking peeks at the ancient Jedi texts. How else would she have managed to make off with them?

1 hour ago, Daeglan said:

That is your assumption. That doesn't make you right. It just means that is what you assume.

And you haven't made many assumptions?

17 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

You keep assuming that the only training luke did was that little bit of training on the Falcon is all the training Luke did between A New Hope and Empire.

You keep assuming you know what I’m thinking.

When it comes to the sequels, you refuse to accept things happening offscreen being reflected in the story; you insist that the progression to these points must be shown on screen in order to be acceptable.

Yet here we are with the originals, and you happily say, “We’ll, I’m sure something happened offscreen.”

In the first movie, we see the nature of the training Luke received on the Falcon, and we are able to infer from context that it was fairly brief, focused on basics, and just barely grazing up against the Force, with Luke’s astonishment that he “... did feel something. I could almost see the remote,” indicating this was a first, rudimentary lesson in the Force. (Interestingly, Obi-Wan tells him to let go of his conscious self and use his instincts...exactly when Rey most successfully uses the Force in TFA.)

But I suppose that’s enough to make the one-in-a-million shot at the Death Star, just not for a sequel trilogy character to do...anything.

31 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

And I am saying since we see luke do some training I assume he did other training on his own or possibly with Obi Wan's Force ghost.

More blind acceptance of offscreen activity for the originals.

If left to his own devices, in what way would Luke train? Most likely, repeating the same basic exercises he was taught, maybe trying a few variations on them. But he would know to practice with Move because...?

Because he has a mentor to train with, and so doesn’t need to head to the middle of nowhere to find a curmudgeon who first refuses to train, then reluctantly acquiesces. (Hmmm...I wonder if that sort of setup might happen at another point in the series.) A mentor who’s a dead man but apparently shows up to be a Chatty Cathy whenever Luke needs a personal trainer, but for some reason decides to pick a moment when Luke is dying and delirious to manifest and tell him to seek out a new mentor. He couldn’t show up before Luke went on patrol for that? Or while he was recovering in the med bay?

37 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

there are 3 years between a New Hope and Empire. that is enough time for luke to figure some stuff out on his own.

“Hey, three years is plenty of time for Luke to learn something that neither he nor the audience even knew was a thing. But 30 years for a group of Empire wannabes to organize? Unacceptable.”

39 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

there is zero time between The Force Awakens and the Last Jedi. and in a few hours Rey goes from knowing nothing to knowing how to use influence...

Not sure what the space between the two movies has to do with her using Influence, when that was in TFA, but let’s take a look. She knows legends about Luke Skywalker and his amazing deeds. After touching an object felt a surge and images from the Force. Then, when faced with Ren, felt him invade her mind and got images from his, too. (Not talking about the mind transfer or whatever, but her learning about his fear of not living up to Vader, as stated in the movie.) So, she gives it a shot. And it doesn’t work the first couple of times. When she lets go her conscious self and trusts her instincts, it works. Like Obi-Wan told Luke to do. Huh. Whattaya know....

1 minute ago, Nytwyng said:

You keep assuming you know what I’m thinking.

When it comes to the sequels, you refuse to accept things happening offscreen being reflected in the story; you insist that the progression to these points must be shown on screen in order to be acceptable.

Yet here we are with the originals, and you happily say, “We’ll, I’m sure something happened offscreen.”

In the first movie, we see the nature of the training Luke received on the Falcon, and we are able to infer from context that it was fairly brief, focused on basics, and just barely grazing up against the Force, with Luke’s astonishment that he “... did feel something. I could almost see the remote,” indicating this was a first, rudimentary lesson in the Force. (Interestingly, Obi-Wan tells him to let go of his conscious self and use his instincts...exactly when Rey most successfully uses the Force in TFA.)

But I suppose that’s enough to make the one-in-a-million shot at the Death Star, just not for a sequel trilogy character to do...anything.

More blind acceptance of offscreen activity for the originals.

If left to his own devices, in what way would Luke train? Most likely, repeating the same basic exercises he was taught, maybe trying a few variations on them. But he would know to practice with Move because...?

Because he has a mentor to train with, and so doesn’t need to head to the middle of nowhere to find a curmudgeon who first refuses to train, then reluctantly acquiesces. (Hmmm...I wonder if that sort of setup might happen at another point in the series.) A mentor who’s a dead man but apparently shows up to be a Chatty Cathy whenever Luke needs a personal trainer, but for some reason decides to pick a moment when Luke is dying and delirious to manifest and tell him to seek out a new mentor. He couldn’t show up before Luke went on patrol for that? Or while he was recovering in the med bay?

“Hey, three years is plenty of time for Luke to learn something that neither he nor the audience even knew was a thing. But 30 years for a group of Empire wannabes to organize? Unacceptable.”

Not sure what the space between the two movies has to do with her using Influence, when that was in TFA, but let’s take a look. She knows legends about Luke Skywalker and his amazing deeds. After touching an object felt a surge and images from the Force. Then, when faced with Ren, felt him invade her mind and got images from his, too. (Not talking about the mind transfer or whatever, but her learning about his fear of not living up to Vader, as stated in the movie.) So, she gives it a shot. And it doesn’t work the first couple of times. When she lets go her conscious self and trusts her instincts, it works. Like Obi-Wan told Luke to do. Huh. Whattaya know....

In the course of 1 movie we have Rey going from knowing nothing about the force to being able to use influence on a storm trooper. No training and nothing to indicate how she learned how.

And yeah I dont like completely changing a character off screen. A character being a little better at stuff after 3 years that is believable. Completelly changing a character so that they are not recognizeable as the previous character happening off screen. Not acceptable.

5 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

There is a difference between completely changing a character and them getting a couple new skills. They took an optimistic look and turned him into a crochety *******. Theat even Mark Hamill hated playing.

Between what Han said in TFA, and what Luke himself said in TLJ, we know how he got from Point A to Point B.

Just now, Nytwyng said:

Between what Han said in TFA, and what Luke himself said in TLJ, we know how he got from Point A to Point B.

Not good enough. As I keep saying they started the sequels at the wrong point.

2 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

In the course of 1 movie we have Rey going from knowing nothing about the force to being able to use influence on a storm trooper. No training and nothing to indicate how she learned how.

In the course of one movie, we go from Luke knowing nothing, getting one little tickle from the Force after waving a lightsaber around, then using the Force to blow up the Death Star.

4 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

And yeah I dont like completely changing a character off screen. A character being a little better at stuff after 3 years that is believable.

A character doing something that neither he nor the audience had any reason to even consider a possibility is believable, but...

5 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Completelly changing a character so that they are not recognizeable as the previous character happening off screen. Not acceptable.

...taking a cocky character, telling and showing the audience that he’d taken an important burden upon himself and failed (miserably), then exiled himself as a result (just like his mentors had after their own catastrophic failures) isn’t acceptable.

5 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Not good enough. As I keep saying they started the sequels at the wrong point.

I know you think so. You wanted them to recast the “big three” so we could see every single moment of the 30 year interim, because that’s the story that you wanted to see. It’s not the story that LFL chose to tell, though. It’s fine to say that. Not being what you wanted, though, doesn’t make it the “wrong point,” or a failure of the stories they did choose to tell.

36 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

In the course of 1 movie we have Rey going from knowing nothing about the force...

Having grown up on the legend of Luke Skywalker, she knew significantly more than Luke did, who shouldn't even have known that Move was a thing you can do with the Force.

3 hours ago, micheldebruyn said:

Having grown up on the legend of Luke Skywalker, she knew significantly more than Luke did, who shouldn't even have known that Move was a thing you can do with the Force.

He likely did not. but we do not know what he discovered in the 3 years. Or if force ghost ben was teaching him. both seem likely

4 hours ago, Nytwyng said:

I know you think so. You wanted them to recast the “big three” so we could see every single moment of the 30 year interim, because that’s the story that you wanted to see. It’s not the story that LFL chose to tell, though. It’s fine to say that. Not being what you wanted, though, doesn’t make it the “wrong point,” or a failure of the stories they did choose to tell.

When did I ever say I wanted them to recast the Big 3? I dont recall saying that. Saying that I wanted the sequel trilogy to start at a different point in the story does not require recasting the big 3. All it requires is starting the story at a different point. the age they are when you start the story can be whatever the **** they want it to be, Changing one variable does not immediately require changing all the others.

4 hours ago, Nytwyng said:

...taking a cocky character, telling and showing the audience that he’d taken an important burden upon himself and failed (miserably), then exiled himself as a result (just like his mentors had after their own catastrophic failures) isn’t acceptable.

Not when you do it off screen. One scene out of context does not count as doing it on screen.

13 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

When did I ever say I wanted them to recast the Big 3? I dont recall saying that. Saying that I wanted the sequel trilogy to start at a different point in the story does not require recasting the big 3. All it requires is starting the story at a different point. the age they are when you start the story can be whatever the **** they want it to be, Changing one variable does not immediately require changing all the others.

You wanted it to start “sooner.” You want every t crossed and every i dotted regarding every detail of the characters’ lives and the state of the galaxy from the intervening years on screen. The cast is made of mortal humans. They can’t get younger. So, either we must skip the details of the intervening decades to use the existing cast (an execution that you have made clear was patently unacceptable) or they must be recast.

11 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Not when you do it off screen. One scene out of context does not count as doing it on screen.

Why?

Prove that this is an objective fact, not your preference.

22 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

You wanted it to start “sooner.” You want every t crossed and every i dotted regarding every detail of the characters’ lives and the state of the galaxy from the intervening years on screen. The cast is made of mortal humans. They can’t get younger. So, either we must skip the details of the intervening decades to use the existing cast (an execution that you have made clear was patently unacceptable) or they must be recast.

Why?

Prove that this is an objective fact, not your preference.

Because it damages a significant portion of the audience's willing suspension of disbelief. The fact that we even have these arguments demonstrate things weren't done well. When fans are fighting like this it is not a sign of a well written story. I have never seen arguments like this regarding marvel. I do regarding star wars. I dont see these fights regarding the clone wars cartoon. I dont seen these fights about the Mandalorian. I dont see these fights about Rebels cartoon. I dont see these fights about the resistance cartoon.
That tells me there is a significant problem with how the Sequel trilogy was handled. It needlessly divided fans.
That is an Objective fact.

Also the fact we dont see the complaints we see about Rey with Ahsoka, Hera, Sabine, Tam means that the claim about misogyny is likely not accurate. And instead there is a problem with the writing.