4 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Sure. But the odds are better that the data is better based on volume.

Not really, because, again, it relies on respondents going to them, can’t guarantee respondents saw the movie, and can’t rule out duplicate respondents.

If I were so inclined, I could go to RT right now and post bad scores to, say, every single Harry Potter movie multiple times. (Spoiler: I’ve never watched a Harry Potter movie.)

9 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

And As I noted it is pretty easy to manipulate the results the CS gets. You just have to pick the theaters to get the demographics. you want. You think it is more accurate. I don't.

More accurate, yes. Most accurate...can’t say. I myself said that I think opening night audiences tend to be inclined to be more invested in going out to see a movie ASAP. But, taking measures to ensure respondents have actually seen the movie and are unique makes for stronger data than relying on an honor system for people to go to them for open response.

13 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

And while sure they might be bots manipulating things. I dont think that is as prevalent as they claimed.

I’ve never said a thing about bots in regards to RT. I have mentioned the documented campaigns by certain segments of the moviegoing audience seeking to skew the RT audience rating for several different movies. Whether their campaigns relied upon manual response or automated, I couldn’t say, because I didn’t participate.

1 hour ago, Daeglan said:

I find it way more accurate to have nearly 300k responses than to have less than 5k and claim more accuracy.

It's about 100K lower now.

And considering that The Last Jedi still has twice the user rating that Avengers Endgame and Infinity War have, combined, something fishy is going on there.

3 hours ago, Daeglan said:

Sure. But the odds are better that the data is better based on volume. And As I noted it is pretty easy to manipulate the results the CS gets. You just have to pick the theaters to get the demographics. you want. You think it is more accurate. I don't. They make claims but since I dont see much transparency I dont believe their claims. Having worked in Hollywood I have seen how things work behind the curtain. And while sure they might be bots manipulating things. I dont think that is as prevalent as they claimed.

That's ridiculous.

You'd need to do an actual, proper poll to get the data that would allow you do do a faked one. And there's no benefit in it for anybody.

And just because you don't see transparency doesn't mean there isn't a lot of it.

2 hours ago, micheldebruyn said:

That's ridiculous.

You'd need to do an actual, proper poll to get the data that would allow you do do a faked one. And there's no benefit in it for anybody.

and just because you don't see transparency doesn't mean there is a lot of it.

not seeing transparency does not inspire trust. It inspires lack of trust

59 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

not seeing transparency does not inspire trust. It inspires lack of trust

But you’ll trust the numbers from a system that doesn’t require respondents to have seen the movie, doesn’t have a safeguard against duplicate respondents, and whose owners have publicly agreed is vulnerable to mass manipulation?

19 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

But you’ll trust the numbers from a system that doesn’t require respondents to have seen the movie, doesn’t have a safeguard against duplicate respondents, and whose owners have publicly agreed is vulnerable to mass manipulation?

Yes. It is more honest. Can it be manipulated sure. But so can any system. Can be. I prefer them being honest. About that fact.

11 hours ago, Daeglan said:

Mirrors like this cause resentment more than changing minds..Also people go to movies to relax. not to b lectured at. Have you notice the fact movies and merch sales have gone down...

No, I have not noticed that. I'm literally sitting here typing this message on the forum of a company that sells Star Wars merch.

2 hours ago, Vlad3theImpaler said:

No, I have not noticed that. I'm literally sitting here typing this message on the forum of a company that sells Star Wars merch.

Then maybe you should look into how the toy sales literally cratered after TLJ. And the Star Wars toy section in stores went from a full aisle to a few feet. Why might that be?

1 hour ago, Daeglan said:

Then maybe you should look into how the toy sales literally cratered after TLJ. And the Star Wars toy section in stores went from a full aisle to a few feet. Why might that be

Toy sales are down all over the place. There's a reason places like Toys'R'Us aren't there anymore. And honestly I can't imagine in the slightest why toy sales aimed at children would fall after tlj. I remember being a kid ans I loved everything Star Wars. TPM was my favorite for years. Kids don't care about the controversy, they like space battles.

14 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Rey's "sudden" ability to use the Force so effectively in the latter part of TFA was already explained as being the result of Kylo's attempt to draw information from her mind. By connecting himself to her, mind to mind, he opened a two-way connection, that allowed her to read his mind , and thus draw upon his knowledge of how to use the Force. We see this connection play out, ans we see her tap into his thoughts on screen in the movie itself when she says, "You're afraid... that you'll never be as strong as Darth Vader."

Should JJ and his Disney bunch ever try to tell you the moon is made of cheese, I look forward to your mental gymnastics to sell us logical poo as absolutely plausible again. ^^

But apart from you comedic take on this utterly flawed made up explanation by Lucasfilm. How comes that Jedi masters trained their padawans arduously for years when a quick link up between both via their natural master padawans bond for mere seconds would totally suffice to create a fully trained Jedi in mere moments? You see the flaw?

33 minutes ago, DarthDude said:

Should JJ and his Disney bunch ever try to tell you the moon is made of cheese, I look forward to your mental gymnastics to sell us logical poo as absolutely plausible again. ^^

But apart from you comedic take on this utterly flawed made up explanation by Lucasfilm. How comes that Jedi masters trained their padawans arduously for years when a quick link up between both via their natural master padawans bond for mere seconds would totally suffice to create a fully trained Jedi in mere moments? You see the flaw?

Supposedly, it’s a combo between this mind reading (which wasn’t really explicit until the novelisation) and the « dyad in the force » thing

the fact that for part of the audience the movies need visual guides and other movies filmed later to make sense is a clue they are a lot less than perfect imho

7 hours ago, Daeglan said:

Yes. It is more honest. Can it be manipulated sure. But so can any system. Can be. I prefer them being honest. About that fact.

People who haven’t seen a movie admittedly rating it multiple times is...more honest....

Than actively polling people as they literally walk out of the theater....

53 minutes ago, MB -Fr- said:

Supposedly, it’s a combo between this mind reading (which wasn’t really explicit until the novelisation) and the « dyad in the force » thing

the fact that for part of the audience the movies need visual guides and other movies filmed later to make sense is a clue they are a lot less than perfect imho

I have yet to see a perfect movie. OK, maybe The Princess Bride . But absolutely none of the Star Wars movies are perfect. A movie does not need to be “perfect” to be quite enjoyable.

5 hours ago, Daeglan said:

Then maybe you should look into how the toy sales literally cratered after TLJ. And the Star Wars toy section in stores went from a full aisle to a few feet. Why might that be?

Because they released the toys in September and the sales fell off with the usual progression. Major financial news outlets covered this already .

2018-2019 sales of toys slumped 3% due to tariffs and the liquidation sales of Toys'R Us. All of this data was in the news and can be found easily.

Again, opinion does not equal empiricism.

35 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

I have yet to see a perfect movie. OK, maybe The Princess Bride .

Shawshank Redemption and Lion in Winter come to mind. But I digress...

I like how this discussion ALWAYS comes down to three things with people trying to say TLJ is the worst movie ever made and it destroyed Star Wars -

1. Rotten Tomatoes audience score, despite the glaring problems with the system itself, and the successful review bombing campaign against it.

2. Toy sales, despite the fact that toy sales have gone down as a whole across the board, tariffs impacting it, liquidations, and the general trend of sales to fall off after an initial spike.

3. Using personal anecdotes as evidence.

Without fail, every time.

2 minutes ago, StarkJunior said:

I like how this discussion ALWAYS comes down to three things with people trying to say TLJ is the worst movie ever made and it destroyed Star Wars -

1. Rotten Tomatoes audience score, despite the glaring problems with the system itself, and the successful review bombing campaign against it.

2. Toy sales, despite the fact that toy sales have gone down as a whole across the board, tariffs impacting it, liquidations, and the general trend of sales to fall off after an initial spike.

3. Using personal anecdotes as evidence.

Without fail, every time.

Comicsgate and agenda based "news" sites like Bleeding Fool and Cosmicbookdotnews have been banging this drum since TFA. Truly we live in a post-facts society.

3 minutes ago, Mistervimes said:

Comicsgate and agenda based "news" sites like Bleeding Fool and Cosmicbookdotnews have been banging this drum since TFA. Truly we live in a post-facts society.

It's like how those types of sites turned reshoots into the worst thing to ever happen and the sure sign of a movie being bad, despite movies having had reshoots since for ******* ever and most of them are just pick-up shots they need to fill parts they didn't get during principal photography, or need a quick shot of an actor from a certain angle.

Just now, StarkJunior said:

It's like how those types of sites turned reshoots into the worst thing to ever happen and the sure sign of a movie being bad, despite movies having had reshoots since for ******* ever and most of them are just pick-up shots they need to fill parts they didn't get during principal photography.

I live in Ya'llywood (Atlanta) and half my gaming table is involved in the TV and Film industry these days. They go nuts every time a clickbait news site goes off on reshoots. Every production (as you say) does reshoots for any number of reasons. Star Wars does reshoots? End of the franchise. Joker does reshoots? Crickets.

51 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

I have yet to see a perfect movie. OK, maybe The Princess Bride . But absolutely none of the Star Wars movies are perfect. A movie does not need to be “perfect” to be quite enjoyable.

No they don’t need to be perfect

but even the prequels didn’t need visual dictionaries to explain anything. When a movie needs a side book to be understood, I am sorry the movie has a problem

2 minutes ago, MB -Fr- said:

No they don’t need to be perfect

but even the prequels didn’t need visual dictionaries to explain anything. When a movie needs a side book to be understood, I am sorry the movie has a problem

The Sequels don't need visual dictionaries to explain anything.

And the Prequels most definitely had visual dictionaries that explained everything, needed or not.

13 minutes ago, StarkJunior said:

I like how this discussion ALWAYS comes down to three things with people trying to say TLJ is the worst movie ever made and it destroyed Star Wars -

1. Rotten Tomatoes audience score, despite the glaring problems with the system itself, and the successful review bombing campaign against it.

2. Toy sales, despite the fact that toy sales have gone down as a whole across the board, tariffs impacting it, liquidations, and the general trend of sales to fall off after an initial spike.

3. Using personal anecdotes as evidence.

Without fail, every time.

I didn’t try to say it was the worst movie made (though it’s pretty much what I think too but that’s my opinion)

I was answering to the fact that the movie has a huge chunk of the audience didn’t like it, which some deny

Just now, micheldebruyn said:

The Sequels don't need visual dictionaries to explain anything.

And the Prequels most definitely had visual dictionaries that explained everything, needed or not.

But part of the audience didn’t NEED them to understand the movies

the prequels may be skubtastic but in that regard they’re superior to sequels : you don’t need extra books to understand them

19 minutes ago, MB -Fr- said:

huge chunk of the audience didn’t like it, which some deny

I mean, that's an opinion, not a fact. So, yeah.

"Huge chunk of audience not liking it" doesn't track with a $1.3 billion dollar return - because it almost assuredly has repeat viewings in there.

16 minutes ago, MB -Fr- said:

But part of the audience didn’t NEED them to understand the movies

You don't for the ST, either.

3 minutes ago, MB -Fr- said:

No they don’t need to be perfect

but even the prequels didn’t need visual dictionaries to explain anything. When a movie needs a side book to be understood, I am sorry the movie has a problem

Nor did the sequels. Using the example Tramp provided that prompted your response, while I own the novelization of TFA, I’ve never read it. Yet I’ve never had a problem following the movie; I had no problem accepting a newly-awakened Force sensitive with an innate talent trying things that she’d heard the fabled Luke Skywalker could do when she was in a jam. When I first heard about the mind transfer (or whatever we want to call it), I just shrugged and said, “Huh. So that’s what they say happened,” and went on about my business.

Then there’s the example that I myself used in starting this thread. I just find it to be a complicated and unnecessary layer. I don’t know what kind of lead time Rae Carson had in writing the novelization, but it seems like it may have been a direct reaction to people being ooked out at the notion of Palpatine having...relations.

The supplemental material is icing, some of it adding flavor and depth, and some just puzzling. And which is which may depend on the person reading it.