So I’m very interested in the sear swarm. What is the hyperspace swarm?

In these lists, what is the optimal turn 0, set up, opening moves and mid game strategies?

Do you move the whole group as a box and try to murder paste something? Do you make sudden unexpected shifts in angle and target priority to catch shifty aces?

More should one instead deploy in a line or in 2 groups? My tests seem to say keeping them together is best. Even though one would think 2 groups is better for blocking.

How many grapples? I find I usually use only 3 max. But I see value in rock insurance.

how much bid? If you want a Blail Blerg secret, I teach that understanding bids (without hyperbole and screaming) is a critical tool most players don’t have much skill for

What do you worry against?

Etc etc.

wpuld be great to have some examples against meta lists and archetypes.

There's a few Hyperspace variants of the Vulture swarm kicking around. The one I've seen most frequently, and probably the closest to the Sear swarm uses O-66 as the relay carrier.

0-66 (51)
General Grievous (3)
Hull Upgrade (3)
TA-175 (9)

Trade Federation Drone (19)

Trade Federation Drone (19)

Trade Federation Drone (19)

Trade Federation Drone (19)

Trade Federation Drone (19)

Trade Federation Drone (19)

Trade Federation Drone (19)
Total: 199

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

Grievous crew plus the Hull Upgrade means that it takes at least a couple of turns of dedicated shooting to kill O-66, and the fact that he's a droid ups the benefits of TA-175 into the bargain. I've also seen a version of this squad that swaps out Grievous and the Hull Upgrade on the Vultures for Grappling Struts on all of the Vultures.

I'll add some thoughts after I play a few more games with my current version. It uses only five Vultures, but I have a 7-ship variant with two Hyenas or a 6-ship Variant that uses 0-66 with the above + some other fun stuff.

@Blail Blerg Playing most types of Sear + Ta-175 lists you would want to keep the list together due to network calculation. a small bid is also nice to have for that mirror match that might happen.

]Belbullab-22 Starfighter - •Captain Sear - 60
•Captain Sear - Kage Infiltrator (45)
•Soulless One (6)
•TA-175 (9)

Vulture-class Droid Fighter - Trade Federation Drone - 23
Trade Federation Drone - (19)
•••Discord Missiles (4)

Vulture-class Droid Fighter - Trade Federation Drone - 23
Trade Federation Drone - (19)
•••Discord Missiles (4)

Vulture-class Droid Fighter - Trade Federation Drone - 23
Trade Federation Drone - (19)
•••Discord Missiles (4)

Vulture-class Droid Fighter - Trade Federation Drone - 24
Trade Federation Drone - (19)
Energy-Shell Charges (5)

Vulture-class Droid Fighter - Trade Federation Drone - 24
Trade Federation Drone - (19)
Energy-Shell Charges (5)

Vulture-class Droid Fighter - Trade Federation Drone - 19
Trade Federation Drone - (19)

Total: 196/200

Add struts to taste and and if you want a bid due to needing more struts you could lose one of the discord's

For Hyperspace I can share my swarm list with you after a tourney I have on the 14th. I can then tell you how well it performs and just so you know it does not use TA-175 or any other relay.

@Blail Blerg

Well, you have lists. How to play them however was forgotten...

I haven’t played droids since release so I’m hardly an expert but have played against them a bit. Things I’ve noted...

• stay in tight formation early to form a strong firing line. Allows you to out joust most lists
• be patient, gauge where your opponent is going to approach from
• now, how you engage will differ depending on your specific list types. A missile/probe droid list will strike differently than a straight swarm
• The usual blocking shenanigans are strong
• late game tends to get a bit iffy. You need to get your damage in early, slant the match. Droids wear out as though they have too small batteries. You can’t run away in most cases and droids do indeed pop when focused upon.

If you're CIS list doesn't have 3 Discord Missiles, try again...

13 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

• stay in tight formation early to form a strong firing line. Allows you to out joust most lists
• be patient, gauge where your opponent is going to approach from
• now, how you engage will differ depending on your specific list types. A missile/probe droid list will strike differently than a straight swarm
• The usual blocking shenanigans are strong
• late game tends to get a bit iffy. You need to get your damage in early, slant the match. Droids wear out as though they have too small batteries. You can’t run away in most cases and droids do indeed pop when focused upon.

Also beware of Proton bombs as they make the droids vary sad.

12 minutes ago, RStan said:

If you're CIS list doesn't have 3 Discord Missiles, try again...

My current hyperspace list only has two and in 6 test games they are 6-0 vs various lists.The lack of another discord missile has not been a problem. Actually the points saved for a little something else has worked lots better than a third discord.

18 minutes ago, LagJanson said:

Well, you have lists. How to play them however was forgotten...

I've played against a lot of Vulture swarms, but haven't actually played one myself (only having four Vultures being a big part of that). As a result, I can offer some vaguely sensible advice on how to attack them (or at least what's worked for me to date), but not how to pilot them.

4 minutes ago, Cpt.Kirk006 said:

My current hyperspace list only has two and in 6 test games they are 6-0 vs various lists.The lack of another discord missile has not been a problem. Actually the points saved for a little something else has worked lots better than a third discord.

It's not tangible to anyone to know if saying "6-0 vs various lists" is real evidence to an argument when we don't know how skilled those players were, what those various lists are, and what you have in the rest of your list. At least in Hyperspace I'm bringing 3 no matter what because of Boba and it helps threaten more space in general against all lists. If your experiences say you're fine with 2, then you do you, but I'd personally feel like I'd be doing a disservice to someone looking for advice on Droid Swarms and not inform them to start with 3 Discord Missiles. IF that player later decides they'd like to see what happens when taking one out to swap in some other tools or tech, sure, try it out. I made that decision for my Worlds squad in my Sear Swarm with only 2 Discords, but my focus is on Hyperspace currently which means dealing with a lot of Boba and that, IMO, means 3 Discord Missiles is a starting point. If I were to play in an extended format I'd revisit Sear Swarm, find room for a 3rd Discord, and try that out first.

24 minutes ago, RStan said:

It's not tangible to anyone to know if saying "6-0 vs various lists" is real evidence to an argument when we don't know how skilled those players were, what those various lists are, and what you have in the rest of your list.

fair enough statement and I totally agree. Either way the person flying the CIS list has to decide for themselves what to incorporate or not in their list based off of learning experience and not only their local meta but if they are going further afield the regional and or national meta in their country etc.

58 minutes ago, RStan said:

If you're CIS list doesn't have 3 Discord Missiles, try again...

Here you basically said that if you do not have three discord's you are doing something wrong, that of course is something I did not agree with and just pointed out that three discords in a list is not a must.

Yes Boba is currently a thing in hyperspace and 3 discords add some control and provide some possible extra damage against that list as well as any other list that is bringing large or even medium based ships. Again I am not saying you are wrong or that three discords is wrong. It all just boils down to how you like your coffee (I like two cubes of sugar not three) and what the buffet has to offer.

One thing that is critical is whenever an enemy ship is removed from the game, you must say “roger roger” aloud.

Ok so discoed missiles good vs 2 ship like boba?

Discord’s are also good vs any size ship that can not barrel roll to shake the buzz droids off them. Are also good vs shield less ships since crits matter. Also if the opposing player shots at the buzz droids well they are not shooting at your ships.

2 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

Ok so discoed missiles good vs 2 ship like boba?

Discord missiles are good against the following:

• Lists that like to joust (easy to predict enemy ship movement and hit them with the Buzzes)

•Lists with hard to damage ships (Auto damage, need I say more?)

The thing to remember is, even against ships that can barrel roll off of Buzz Droids, if you can nail them with the launching of the buzz droids, it will do a damage before they have an opportunity to barrel roll. I will pay 4 points to do one damage to Obi-Wan any day. Technically, your opponent can shoot the Buzz Swarm, but I've yet to see anyone make that choice (also, every shot your opponent doesn't take against you is about 1/2 a vulture's worth of health saved.)

4 hours ago, hargleblarg said:

Discord missiles are good against the following:

• Lists that like to joust (easy to predict enemy ship movement and hit them with the Buzzes)

•Lists with hard to damage ships (Auto damage, need I say more?)

The thing to remember is, even against ships that can barrel roll off of Buzz Droids, if you can nail them with the launching of the buzz droids, it will do a damage before they have an opportunity to barrel roll. I will pay 4 points to do one damage to Obi-Wan any day. Technically, your opponent can shoot the Buzz Swarm, but I've yet to see anyone make that choice (also, every shot your opponent doesn't take against you is about 1/2 a vulture's worth of health saved.)

What is this about br off??

I find generally discord missiles to not be my thing: as getting an extra vulture can be good damage as well. Second there’s very few things that are predictable and actively want to hoist a full vulture swarm. So the discord doesn’t give any value one couldn’t get from pure joust damage in the frontal arc.

Hence why I was more interested for which edge cases NEED discord

7 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

What is this about br off??

A ship that is afflicted with buzz droids can barrel roll to leave them behind. However, buzz droids are launched at the start of the engagement phase and do damage at the end of the engagement phase, so if they land on a ship it's at least 1 guaranteed damage. And on a ship like Boba that can't br, it puts a timer on him.

11 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

I find generally discord missiles to not be my thing: as getting an extra vulture can be good damage as well. Second there’s very few things that are predictable and actively want to hoist a full vulture swarm. So the discord doesn’t give any value one couldn’t get from pure joust damage in the frontal arc.

Discord missiles are super cheap at 4 points. You can easily run 8 ships and have 3 discords. ****, you can even fit a tactical relay on there.

Case in point

Duncan Howard won the Texas System Open without a relay, but I suspect it's a much harder list for the average player.

Anyway, I'm not necessarily saying that discords are an auto include, but they definitely provide a lot of value.

13 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

What is this about br off??

If a ship's movement (including boost or barrel roll) does not move through or overlap the Buzz Droid template then the Buzz Droids do not relocate, they stay put. Being as this can't happen till the turn after the buzz droids are launched (they are launched at the start of the Engagement Phase) a well timed launch will nearly guarantee at least one crit (shields get spent first as normal).

Got it, I see it now. (Sad, I'm pretty sure in lore they stay on if you BR)

You can only open struts if your ending position lands on a rock right? So, if you simply move through, you can't open.

21 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

You can only open struts if your ending position lands on a rock right? So, if you simply move through, you can't open.

Correct.

@Blail Blerg useful reference for how Buzz droids work courtesy of @emeraldbeacon :

And their reference flow chart for struts:

14 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

@Blail Blerg useful reference for how Buzz droids work courtesy of @emeraldbeacon :

And their reference flow chart for struts:

Chart is very neat. I think I'm finding some corner cases.

Ok, the charts at least didn't say anything about at a glance:

Struts open, on a obstacle, can I BR with the template going thru the rock, onto another position on the rock or a position off the rock?

If I BR off the obstacle, does that mean my struts remain open (letting me ignore obstacles while moving and at final position), and then after the maneuver is completed, they close? If I happen to final position on a rock, I still have to forcibly close the struts, meaning I now take damage?? (I can't reopen them now cuz the maneuver has completely ended and we are no longer in the "while" step, yes?)

One more: my opened rocked vulture is now ioned. I know there's a rule for this, but do you want to add this as an edge case? : D

On 3/6/2020 at 2:16 AM, Blail Blerg said:

Chart is very neat. I think I'm finding some corner cases.

Ok, the charts at least didn't say anything about at a glance:

1) Struts open, on a obstacle, can I BR with the template going thru the rock, onto another position on the rock or a position off the rock?

2) If I BR off the obstacle, does that mean my struts remain open (letting me ignore obstacles while moving and at final position), and then after the maneuver is completed, they close? If I happen to final position on a rock, I still have to forcibly close the struts, meaning I now take damage?? (I can't reopen them now cuz the maneuver has completely ended and we are no longer in the "while" step, yes?)

3) One more: my opened rocked vulture is now ioned. I know there's a rule for this, but do you want to add this as an edge case? : D

1) Struts open on an obstacle should allow you to barrel roll into a different position on the obstacle, since you are still "at Range 0" of the obstacle. You should also be able to barrel roll off, but your struts stay open. They close the next time you execute a maneuver.

2) see part ii to answer 1 above.

Card for reference:

3) Ioned Droids' struts are a special case. You're executing the ion maneuver, so you are executing a maneuver, but if they were open when you were zapped, they stay open. At least, that's my best understanding of the situation. There was a discussion about it in the rules forum a long time ago.

@feltipern1 : not sure I agree with your analysis for Ion and struts.

If you are ioned, you do execute a maneuver, so would flip the card.

In extended with sear, you don't really need ordnance.

sear, ta175, soulless one, 7 strut vultures is 200 points and a great efficiency list. Sear helps to get damage through on aces and boba so discords are not necessary if you can setup blocks.

I could see a 1 pt bid to move/shoot last in the mirror but it's not really worth the loss of uniformity across the list.

In hyperspace it's a very different situation. Loosing sear means loosing a lot of firepower against high agility/ token stack aces so discords look a lot better if you do not bring a scimitar with tractor beam (like the heightened perception dooku build).

24 minutes ago, Icareane said:

@feltipern1 : not sure I agree with your analysis for Ion and struts.

If you are ioned, you do execute a maneuver, so would flip the card.

In extended with sear, you don't really need ordnance.

sear, ta175, soulless one, 7 strut vultures is 200 points and a great efficiency list. Sear helps to get damage through on aces and boba so discords are not necessary if you can setup blocks.

I could see a 1 pt bid to move/shoot last in the mirror but it's not really worth the loss of uniformity across the list.

In hyperspace it's a very different situation. Loosing sear means loosing a lot of firepower against high agility/ token stack aces so discords look a lot better if you do not bring a scimitar with tractor beam (like the heightened perception dooku build).

Ahh. Ok. I’m running sear. Funny enough my last game I had the bullseye 3 times but never right to sear crackshot.

Debating running 1 discord for boba but I guess it won’t matter as boba isn’t good for sear cracks anyway??