Thoughts?  Weak on against squadrons so Id try to make rhe fight end quickly with a round 1 Onager attack.

Fire Again *****!

Author: mj10982
Faction: Empire
Commander: Darth Vader

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Fleet Ambush
Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

[flagship] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120)
- Darth Vader (36)
- Devastator (10)
- Electronic Countermeasures (7)
- Heavy Ion Emplacements (9)
- Strategic Adviser (4)
- XI7 Turbolasers (6)
- Weapons Battery Techs (5)
= 197 points

Onager-Class Testbed (96)
- Cataclysm (5)
- Admiral Ozzel (2)
- Orbital Bombardment Particle Cannons (5)
- Nav Team (4)
- Gunnery Chief Varnillian (6)
- Weapons Battery Techs (5)
= 123 points

Gozanti-Class Cruisers (23)
- Suppressor (4)
- Slicer Tools (7)
- Hondo Ohnaka (2)
= 36 points

3 TIE Fighter Squadron (8)
1 Howlrunner (16)
= 40 points

I've been running a similar Vader Onager build, which I've tailored to Anti-Starhawk and Anti-Rakehell by using Ion Cannon Batteries in the ISD2's Ion Cannon slot. Basically, Slicer Tools change Nav dials and ICB discards Nav tokens, which can trap a Starhawk or Rakehell at speed 0. I also use Phylon Q7 Tractor Beam on the ISD2 to slow incoming Starhawks (especially Amity) which also forces the enemy to discard Nav tokens, and gives Devastator at least one more round of shooting from its front arc.

I understand why you chose HIE (and Weapons Battery Techs) because it helps deplete shields, which is useful against Starhawks and Onagers, but IME Blue Accuracy's are needed more to block defense tokens than Blue Crits are to trigger Ion Cannon upgrades. If I rolled 10+ hits, an Accuracy to block Brace will help more than HIE. Blocking Brace becomes more valuable the more hits you roll, so by the time the enemy gets into medium range and you can use HIE, you can roll the most dice and inflict the most damage. But all that damage will be cut in half if you don't block Braces. Another reason why I chose ICB instead of HIE is because, after I've gotten rid of all of the enemy ship's command tokens, a Blue Crit will reduce 1 shield on the hull zone that I'm shooting at; so it's similar to HIE but almost half the point cost.

I went for 1st player, 4 ships, and Strategic Adviser on my OSD for activation advantage with my build (393 points) because I wanted Cataclysm to last-first. It's much safer to exhaust one of the Onager's defense tokens with Vader if it activates last.

For activation advantage, I run a 2nd Gozanti with Comms Net and I don't bother with squadrons. Squadrons can be mitigated by using Slicer Tools to change the enemy's Squadron commands. That's another reason to chose 1st player and activation advantage. I can choose to activate the Goz with Slicer Tools last and change the enemy carrier's next command dial (which they'll reveal the next round); or activate first to change the carrier's top dial. The Gozanti usually survives long enough to cancel Squadron commands for 2-3 rounds, which is long enough for the Onager to destroy the enemy carrier. When the enemy sees my Gozanti with ST approaching, they usually activate their squadrons to attack my Gozanti rather than my big ships, which is exactly what I want because it takes the heat off my high-point ships, lets them focus on shooting enemy ships (instead of making anti-squadron attacks), and 2 Gozanti's can wither down enemy squadrons with their black dice, so the big ships can finish them off later. The Gozanti with ST usually only has to survive 1 round of squadron attacks, then it screws up the enemy's Squadron commands, and moves out of range so they can't attack it during the Squadron Phase (unless they have Rogue to move and attack).

IME you'll just be sending out Howlrunner and those TIEs to die against the enemy's squadrons, which means you'll just be giving those points to your opponent. If you're using Slicer Tools effectively, you'll probably lose your Gozanti at some point, which means you can expect to lose 76 points every battle. Even if your opponent isn't running any squadrons, presumably you'd use your TIEs to attack enemy ships, but TIEs are so flimsy they can be destroyed in 1-2 anti-squadron attacks. Again, you're just giving those points to your opponent. If you're going to use any squadrons, go with Aces instead, who can use their defense tokens to survive a few extra rounds.

Finally, I don't think Nav Team is necessary on the Onager. I've never had a problem keeping the Onager's Special Arc on target (or leading the target) if it's a medium or large ship at medium range or farther; it's only when the enemy big ships get in close that you'll have trouble. If and when that happens, it's smarter to use Nav tokens to push the Onager to speed 2 or 3 and get it the **** out of there, rather than trying to out-turn the enemy ship, which just ain't gonna happen.

2 hours ago, Mj10982 said:

Thoughts?  Weak on against squadrons so Id try to make rhe fight end quickly with a round 1 Onager attack.

Fire Again *****!

Author: mj10982
Faction: Empire
Commander: Darth Vader

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Fleet Ambush
Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

[flagship] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120)
- Darth Vader (36)
- Devastator (10)
- Electronic Countermeasures (7)
- Heavy Ion Emplacements (9)
- Strategic Adviser (4)
- XI7 Turbolasers (6)
- Weapons Battery Techs (5)
= 197 points

Onager-Class Testbed (96)
- Cataclysm (5)
- Admiral Ozzel (2)
- Orbital Bombardment Particle Cannons (5)
- Nav Team (4)
- Gunnery Chief Varnillian (6)
- Weapons Battery Techs (5)
= 123 points

Gozanti-Class Cruisers (23)
- Suppressor (4)
- Slicer Tools (7)
- Hondo Ohnaka (2)
= 36 points

3 TIE Fighter Squadron (8)
1 Howlrunner (16)
= 40 points

Couple thoughts:

The squadron complement isn’t going to win the space-superiority battle very often, but it will provide a respectable delaying force for a turn, maybe two, which is likely all you’ll need, your ships are strong enough to make a pretty clean getaway.

The fleet looks pretty good as-is, but I feel like you could make some cuts and strengthen your game against squads, or free up points for another ship or something, if you wanted.

First of all: A round one Onager attack certainly puts some pressure on, but especially with the Starhawk in the picture now, you cannot count on “making the fight end quickly.” If you face a Starhawk, it’s going to be a many-turns long battle, if your opponent flies correctly.

Let’s look at possible cuts first.

Devastator - I love the idea of this title, and I really want to see it work. But the fact is, it often doesn’t. There are two main problems; first, it’s a difficult balance to strike between selectively and carefully discarding defense tokens to leverage Devastator’s effect, and being completely reckless in order to get a couple blue dice, then losing your 200 point flagship. The other problem is that by the time you’ve faced enough fire to have plausibly gotten rid of a couple of tokens, your opponent has often managed to slip your front arc, and the title ONLY works from the front (if you could add the dice to any arc, it would be worlds better). That said, a VADER-commanded Devastator has an option that allows for easier token discard, and you might want to consider it: Intel Officer. It’s been (very strangely) ruled that Intel Officer can target one of your own defense tokens during an attack, and if the targeted token is spent, it’s discarded. Since Commander Vader lets you spend your defense tokens during an attack, you can do something like this:

Attack from Devastator’s front hull

Roll the initial attack dice

Intel Officer your own Contain

Use Vader to spend Contain; discard it

Add a blue die from Devastator

Reroll any number of attack dice with Vader.

It’s an *expensive* way to get an extra blue into the pool. But, it doesn’t take up a Turbolaser or Ion Cannon slot, and it’s not a Modification, and it’s pretty rare to find a way to add dice to an attack that also meets those criteria. It also adds the extra blues at any range, even long, which is really great.

So, IF you decide to keep Devastator, get the Intel Officer in there. You’ll have to skip Strategic Advisor, or move him to the Testbed, though. Acceptable losses, I think.

Now, Heavy Ion Emplacements are great, especially with Vader, and especially if you’re finding fun new ways to add blue dice to your pool. XI7s are also fantastic. But they go together like steamed crab and Cocoa Puffs. HIEs are about blowing away the shields your opponent wants to Redirect to, and overwhelming them with brute force. XI7s are about preventing him from Redirecting, and slipping damage through. Both are valid approaches, but they work at somewhat cross purposes. What does he care about losing adjacent shields when his Redirects are basically getting shut down by XI7s anyway? I would cut one or the other. IF you keep Devastator and add Intel Officer, I think I would keep HIEs. With the extra blues from Devastator and the rerolls from Vader, they should be highly effective. To replace the XI7s, you could try any of a few options: Spinal Armaments or Quad Battery Turrets (more blues!) spring to mind first, but also H9s, or even (and I almost never like these, but they might work great with Intel Officer and this many dice) Heavy Turbolaser Turrets.

Or, if you want to make this whole operation a lot cheaper, you could instead just dump HIEs, keep the XI7s, and leave the Ion Cannon slot open (you probably don’t need Leading Shots with Vader commanding).

I do like the Devastator/Intel Officer/HIEs plan, though. If you go with it, you can probably shave a few points off by leaving Weapons Battery Techs at home. With Vader rerolling 4-5 (or more, with additional token discards or Concentrate Fire or Quad Battery Turrets) blues, your chances of hitting a critical for HIEs is already excellent. Consider Local Fire Control, maybe? This ship’s gonna be absorbing a LOT of shots, and LFC will let you spit some fire back. Salvo is also a pretty easy-to-discard token for Devastator.

The Testbed looks good. I would consider cutting Nav Team; I tried a similar setup, and found them rarely useful... most of the time I was going speed 1 and had a Nav dial queued up anyway, which gives you all the clicks you can get.

Without a steady source of token generation, Cataclysm/Hondo is probably going to end up being a one-trick-pony for you. That first turn shot is a good trick, but you may want to shave a few points and drop Cataclysm. I’ve found it doesn’t often come up after turn 1. And again, it’s just me, maybe, but I think you’re bringing Vader so guys like Weapons Battery Techs can stay home.

If you’re going with Suppressor/Slicer Tools on your Gozanti, consider dropping Ozzel, moving Hondo to the Cataclysm, and putting Minister Tua and ECMs on the Suppressor. With the Scatter safe from accuracy, Suppressor becomes a highly disruptive and difficult to kill little menace.

Speaking of moving things around, put Lord Vader on the Testbed. He’ll be much safer, and Devastator is probably gonna get wrecked now and then.

That was a lot, I know. Ignore what you like; your fleet looked pretty good from the start! Good luck.

I realize now that HIE and XI7 don't mix so I added spinal armament. I switched the ISD title to Relentless to save points and not make myself so vulnerable.  I want to keep Ozzel and Cataclysm.  In addition to Cataclysm making it easier to fire it helps force my opponent to separate his fleet. Ozzel helps a bit in expanding how far it can reach turn one. The Cataclysm would be deployed last. I got the idea from CGYSO. I do normally use Tua and ECM on the Suppressor but in this case I'm making it expendable.  I changed my squadrons a bit which can now be moved solely by the Suppressor.  I don't care so much about winning the squadron fight but just weakening them and holding them off in order to knock out their carriers.


Author: mj10982
Faction: Empire
Commander: Darth Vader

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Fleet Ambush
Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

[flagship] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120)
- Darth Vader (36)
- Relentless (3)
- Reinforced Blast Doors (5)
- Heavy Ion Emplacements (9)
- Strategic Adviser (4)
- Spinal Armament (9)
- Local Fire Control (4)
= 190 points

Onager-Class Testbed (96)
- Cataclysm (5)
- Admiral Ozzel (2)
- Orbital Bombardment Particle Cannons (5)
- Gunnery Chief Varnillian (6)
- Weapons Battery Techs (5)
= 119 points

Gozanti-Class Cruisers (23)
- Suppressor (4)
- Slicer Tools (7)
- Expanded Hangar Bay (5)
- Hondo Ohnaka (2)
= 41 points

1 Ciena Ree (17)
1 Howlrunner (16)
1 Valen Rudor (13)
= 46 points

2 hours ago, Mj10982 said:

I realize now that HIE and XI7 don't mix so I added spinal armament. I switched the ISD title to Relentless to save points and not make myself so vulnerable.  I want to keep Ozzel and Cataclysm.  In addition to Cataclysm making it easier to fire it helps force my opponent to separate his fleet. Ozzel helps a bit in expanding how far it can reach turn one. The Cataclysm would be deployed last. I got the idea from CGYSO. I do normally use Tua and ECM on the Suppressor but in this case I'm making it expendable.  I changed my squadrons a bit which can now be moved solely by the Suppressor.  I don't care so much about winning the squadron fight but just weakening them and holding them off in order to knock out their carriers.


Author: mj10982
Faction: Empire
Commander: Darth Vader

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Fleet Ambush
Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

[flagship] Imperial II-Class Star Destroyer (120)
- Darth Vader (36)
- Relentless (3)
- Reinforced Blast Doors (5)
- Heavy Ion Emplacements (9)
- Strategic Adviser (4)
- Spinal Armament (9)
- Local Fire Control (4)
= 190 points

Onager-Class Testbed (96)
- Cataclysm (5)
- Admiral Ozzel (2)
- Orbital Bombardment Particle Cannons (5)
- Gunnery Chief Varnillian (6)
- Weapons Battery Techs (5)
= 119 points

Gozanti-Class Cruisers (23)
- Suppressor (4)
- Slicer Tools (7)
- Expanded Hangar Bay (5)
- Hondo Ohnaka (2)
= 41 points

1 Ciena Ree (17)
1 Howlrunner (16)
1 Valen Rudor (13)
= 46 points

I like that. Two suggestions:

Howlrunner isn’t worth it here. With only two other Swarm squadrons to buff, you’re getting just two bonus dice (until she dies, which will probably happen REAL fast, because she’s the most attractive of the three available squadron targets). Take Mauler Mithel instead. Same basic combat ability, but he can go screaming in and deal more damage just by showing up on the scene. And he’s one point cheaper.

Reinforced Blast Doors are great, but do you really prefer them over ECMs here?

I can drop Howlrunner for Mithel. I was going to use ECM as a way of dropping tokens as quickly as possible. I do like the idea of having an extra 3 hull but maybe I can keep ECM just to ensure I can brace.

2 hours ago, Mj10982 said:

I can drop Howlrunner for Mithel. I was going to use ECM as a way of dropping tokens as quickly as possible. I do like the idea of having an extra 3 hull but maybe I can keep ECM just to ensure I can brace.

Yeah, I think you’ll find even Bracing once when you wouldn’t otherwise have been able to will probably save you 2-4 hull. More if you end up ECMing more than a couple times.