1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

Ok. What’s generally the list and build of boba fenn?

This is a moderately tooled up version of the list - you'll often see Fearless trimmed off Boba for a bigger bid, or some other tweaks in terms of upgrades, but this is a good core to have in mind. Drop Fearless and swap Protons for Seismics , and you're looking at a 21 point bid.

Fenn Rau (68)
Fearless (3)

Boba Fett (85)
Fearless (3)
Maul (12)
Proton Bombs (5)
Contraband Cybernetics (2)
Hull Upgrade (5)
Slave I (1)
Total: 184

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

Last I heard boba had trouble with i6 that moved after him.

He does, but Fenn makes those I6s worry a great deal. Against most lists, the plan is generally to make your opponent have to deal with Fenn, and by the time Fenn is dead Boba should be in a strong enough position to close out the match. Against other I6s, Fenn can herd them away from Boba or into bad spots, as even the most durable of aces worries about a range 1 shot from Fenn.

1 hour ago, Blail Blerg said:

Ok. What’s generally the list and build of boba fenn?

And sorry meant 2 aces and filler.

Last I heard boba had trouble with i6 that moved after him.

Now, the exact build varies, but usually Fenn Rau has Fearless on him, while Boba has Maul, Fearless and Slave 1. The variant I've seen about also adds Proton Bombs and a Hull Upgrade onto Boba, leaving an 18pt bid, all while being Hyperspace-friendly.

On paper, Boba is threatened by i6 pilots. However, due to the speed of a medium base ship (with a boost no less), and the combination of a strong rear arc, Maul, and Boba's rerolls should he have any enemy in range one, he can be surprisingly difficult to damage meaningfully. Also, any i6 ace who guns for him runs the risk of leaving themselves open to attack from Fenn.

15 hours ago, CoffeeMinion said:

* raises hand *

I’m confused. We’re talking about 3 Upsilons like you can’t take that... but at 58 points each, you totally can. Three Starkillers comes out at 174, leaving ample room for upgrades, or even a cheap 4th ship.

What am I missing?

Back in January 2019, a specific Triple Upsilon list could punch in the face round 1. Here's a good summary if you are interested: Triple Upsilons and the Rule of Four .

8 hours ago, FriendofYoda said:

Is anything doing well against both CIS swarms and Fenn/Boba right now? They seem to be everywhere atm

What do you consider well?

Rebel Beef and possibly Resistance 5A's have decent matchups vs both. Resistance beef generally has the tools as well, but Pava is a bad matchup (Block formation).

Kylo + jousty (3-4 other ships) can do well as well.

A lot of flying vs CIS Swarms and Boba/Fenn is the engagements though, which a lot of people fail at. They do a joust, even if it's a delayed joust.

On 3/3/2020 at 11:42 PM, Archangelspiv said:

Generics at 50 or go home.

This would fix Boba/Fenn for sure.

On 3/4/2020 at 2:39 PM, Squark said:

I don't think Boba and either of his wingmates have reached Triple Upsilon levels (Although I will stand by my long held opinion that Boba Fett should have had 2 recurring charges instead of an always on ability. But, FFG has been gunshy on errata this time around). My instinct is to make Slave I scale with initiative and drop Maul from Hyperspace. His presence is actually really weird, since no ship he comes with is in hyperspace. It just feels weird. K2-S0 is in the same boat, but they both feel odd where they are, honestly.

Maul and K2-S0 are most likely in hyperspace because they came in the Hotshots and Aces pack.

On 3/4/2020 at 9:55 AM, Tbetts94 said:

They could just take Slave 1 or Maul Crew out and it’d still be good, but not dominate over the hyperspace meta they created.

theres no reason to do that. theyre both fun, balanced upgrades.

Making Slave-1 avariable cost based on innitiative by PS as others suggested makes way more sense. or for that matter get rid of bids. if first player was always a roll off people couldnt rely on it so there would be no reason to build around choosing first player.

1 hour ago, Vontoothskie said:

theres no reason to do that. theyre both fun, balanced upgrades.

Making Slave-1 avariable cost based on innitiative by PS as others suggested makes way more sense. or for that matter get rid of bids. if first player was always a roll off people couldnt rely on it so there would be no reason to build around choosing first player.

Eh, I’d disagree that Slave 1 is fun to play against.

55 minutes ago, Tbetts94 said:

Eh, I’d disagree that Slave 1 is fun to play against.

And I think the resistance and first order Aces arent much fun to play against. That has no bearing on what should be allowed in the game though. Some people dislike certain archetypes, but people disagree on whats bad. The question is if its fair for the points, to whit Slave 1 is on every pilot except Boba. on him it should probably be more like 6 to 12 points. everyone else its a mild buff.

33 minutes ago, Vontoothskie said:

And I think the resistance and first order Aces arent much fun to play against. That has no bearing on what should be allowed in the game though. Some people dislike certain archetypes, but people disagree on whats bad. The question is if its fair for the points, to whit Slave 1 is on every pilot except Boba. on him it should probably be more like 6 to 12 points. everyone else its a mild buff.

You specifically said, “ they’re both fun, balanced upgrades.” So I was referencing the fun part, now you say it should be more points, so it’s also not balanced.

The real reason it shouldn’t be in Hyperspace is it’s one of the only “change your dial” upgrade in the format. Supernatural, Precog, Navigator, etc aren’t in the format. They wanted dials to matter, but left this in. I doubt people would stop playing Boba/Fenn in Hyperspace if it went up 6-12 points, they were only ever bidding against the mirror anyways.

6-12 points more would land Boba/Fenn lists right in the 190s to high 190s, which I was told is far too much. Though - is it? What would change if Slave 1 costs, say, 3-4 points for Boba? I think not much would change.

Right now, a Boba/Fenn list doesn't have to make the decision every other list has to make - do I go for more bid or more upgrades (except mirrors, of course)?

And to those who think that Boba/Fenn is balanced right now or maybe Slave 1 should cost 2-3 point more - what imperial Hyperspace list would make a Boba/Fenn player concerned right now? A list that also has a chance against swarms?

Slave 1 is degenerate, but it's not what makes Boba good. He wouldn't miss it that much; it doesn't get used even once in plenty of games. Turns out a ship that doesn't mind being blocked doesn't need to change one banks to the other bank that often; and a ship that can easily be a 360 turret can kind of just go wherever. If your goal is to nerf Boba, taking away Slave 1 isn't really the avenue.

Remember Boba never used Slave 1 when it was 5 and Marauder was 3. Obviously that's because Marauder (and Han) were so good, but when you're saying things like 6+, let alone like 10+, it'll just be left at home. At those levels, a bid is more valuable, let alone other upgrades available in non-2ship lists. Note for the record, however, that pricing Slave 1 out of use is fine by me; just not sure people realize that's what they're saying.

Boba has been broken in exactly two builds in 2.0 and both were builds that allowed him to get passive focus conversions. Funny that, huh? Almost like...

4 hours ago, Laniakean_Guy said:

And to those who think that Boba/Fenn is balanced right now

Wait do people think this?

Look I'm one of the biggest defenders of Hyperspace there is. It's the most fun I've had in any format in all of 2.0, even with Supernatural Boba facerolling it. I would rather play another 6 months of current extended than anything else; and I've never made it this far into a 2.0 points cycle without craving a mixup. I will defend Fort Hyperspace at all costs.

But jesus, Boba is not balanced right now.

Yes, Slave 1 might not be used that often, but being able to more easily block Boba means that adding a ship or two with Intimidation would give other lists more options. If that would be enough, I don't know, but at least this would be a possible counter that doesn't simply rely on bringing a swarm to the table. Or another Boba-list.

Boba doesn't need Slave 1, true. But you need to fly him at least fairly well without it. He obviously becomes more predictable, which is a big thing. Even when he doesn't use it, the option to use it really affects planning.

Its a start, anyway...

But I still don't think it's cost makes a great deal of difference.

I don't get out and play a lot. However at a local store I have a tradition of doing pretty well, and won a thirty odd player store champ last night with 5 x-wings. Lots of Bobas in the running, none made cut. Take that for what it's worth.

My only loss was to a newer player with 2 generic firesprays and Fenn, flown well.

5 x-wings was there in 3 sets, and in the mirror dice variance tilted the game in my favor. Still 10 x-wings on a table. 🤗 Thank you 2.0. Thank you hyper space.

If 5 x-wings proves a thing @RStan has a good tweak, but I won't steal his thunder.

5 hours ago, svelok said:

Turns out a ship that doesn't mind being blocked doesn't need to change one banks to the other bank that often

Getting rid of it would allow intimidation blockers to actually do their job against him, which would allow some listbuilding counters to him, and give Boba something he'll need to think about in the planning phase instead of going wherever and getting most mods anyway. As is he just dances around them.

Slave I is my only real problem with Boba/Fenn. I've done alright against it with several different lists in HS while never having bid on it.

On 3/8/2020 at 6:46 AM, svelok said:

it doesn't get used even once in plenty of games.

The option of using it is always there and always has an impact on every single turn for the opponent. Very similar to Afterburners, opponent has to plan that you could use it until the charges are out, however Slave 1 doesn’t have charges.

Boba/Fenn will still be good without Slave 1, but it would allow more counter play in the format where many of Boba’s counters are gone.

On 3/4/2020 at 9:21 AM, Whalers on the moon said:

Death should have permanence, and good characters need to eat it from time to time.

Tell that to whatever knuckleheads decided Darth Maul has legs now.

1 hour ago, Tbetts94 said:

The option of using it is always there and always has an impact on every single turn for the opponent. Very similar to Afterburners, opponent has to plan that you could use it until the charges are out, however Slave 1 doesn’t have charges.

Boba/Fenn will still be good without Slave 1, but it would allow more counter play in the format where many of Boba’s counters are gone.

Agreed. I played handbrake Han for a short while, and while I used the Handbrake only once ever, my opponents agonized over it every turn. Same goes for Boba/Slave 1, you may never use it, but your opponent must consider it every turn.

It will be taken care of in next points/HS update so FFG wont "fix it". Give us imp aces back and all will be balanced. Those i6 and i5 imp aces everyone complained about kept lists like this in check.

Its like those formats where people ban i5 and i6 pilots, then all of sudden everyone is flying Echo and Vynder. There is a reason those two are i4's and making them highest initiative is the problem. Same for Boba, get rid of most of the i5's and i6s that can compete against him and give him the only pre-dial adjust upgrade in the game and Boba being a beast is inevitable.

16 minutes ago, wurms said:

Give us imp aces back and all will be balanced.

I'm not certain that's how it works. You're trading a tiger for a lion.

1 hour ago, wurms said:

It will be taken care of in next points/HS update so FFG wont "fix it". Give us imp aces back and all will be balanced. Those i6 and i5 imp aces everyone complained about kept lists like this in check.

Its like those formats where people ban i5 and i6 pilots, then all of sudden everyone is flying Echo and Vynder. There is a reason those two are i4's and making them highest initiative is the problem. Same for Boba, get rid of most of the i5's and i6s that can compete against him and give him the only pre-dial adjust upgrade in the game and Boba being a beast is inevitable.

I would rather keep Boba than have Soontir back.

2 hours ago, wurms said:

Give us imp aces back and all will be balanced

NO!

I still maintain supernatural 1 should cost 12 points at least, then you can at least outbid him and force him to move first.