2 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

We do not call ourselves a democracy. We are a Representative Republic.

We call ourselves a democracy on a daily basis, including politicians on both sides of the isle. The mainstream press especially loves the term.

1 minute ago, Daeglan said:

We do not call ourselves a democracy. We are a Representative Republic.

Quite, you never hear Americans talk about being the greatest democracy in the world, and we love to help people install Representative Republics (after we have taken their oil).

Really not looking to argue with people on a RPG forum about politics (get enough of that on Reddit and Quora) but interesting that that was the only point you took out of my post.

3 minutes ago, DangerShine Designs said:

At no time did I say they were socialist. I said that they had taken elements of socialism and combined that with capitalism and had "working Socialism". America calls itself a democracy and it's not, I'm not arguing the semantics of what a particular government calls itself, I'm discussing where socialism has been proven to work and Holland's current state has evolved out of socialism.

And I may have gotten here late but if the argument is "America should and will never be a socialist country" then I agree completely, but people really do like social programs that our taxes pay for (roads, social security, schools, cops) and America could absolutely stand to learn a lot from Europe. Figure out how to support and subsidize education for all, figure out global healthcare because as bad as people may want to say the NHS or Canada's system sucks, they are WAY superior to the "nothing" that 44 million Americans (including my inlaws) have.

As an abstract thought, part of the issue with any kind of discussion like this right now is that people are super polarized and I see so many discussions (Reddit, Quora, Twitter, Facebook, all the dark places) devolve quickly from "healthcare for all would be great" into a "FU, 'murica" argument but no one can convince me that a) America isn't an amazing country, it is, or b) that it wouldn't be better still if we took a more European approach to caring for our people.

The reason many here dont like the European model for caring for people is it often involves not providing care fore people and denying them the ability to go elsewhere to get care. Having people die from dehydration in hospitals is not an improvement in my mind. Could our health care system be improved. Yes. I dont think European method are one though. They tend to involve rationing care and doing nothing to increase the amount of healthcare available.

1 minute ago, Daeglan said:

The reason many here dont like the European model for caring for people is it often involves not providing care fore people and denying them the ability to go elsewhere to get care. Having people die from dehydration in hospitals is not an improvement in my mind. Could our health care system be improved. Yes. I dont think European method are one though. They tend to involve rationing care and doing nothing to increase the amount of healthcare available.

That's absolutely one perspective, but it's not the one shared by most Europeans so YMMV.

And if the argument for not doing it here is that you don't like what you hear about how they do it somewhere else, that doesn't mean we should continue unchallenged with a for-profit system that doesn't serve the needs of the majority and has the wrong focus. As I said in my first post on this subject, there needs to be compromise. No side of the political side is COMPLETELY right and both sides have legitimate positions that need to be considered and brought into the discussion for the good of the voter/citizen. If someone is willing to discount ALL the ideas from the other side and become entrenched in their positions to the exclusion of reason, they are part of the problem and why we're so divided as a nation. We all need to put our country over our party every ******* time.

1 minute ago, DangerShine Designs said:

That's absolutely one perspective, but it's not the one shared by most Europeans so YMMV.

And if the argument for not doing it here is that you don't like what you hear about how they do it somewhere else, that doesn't mean we should continue unchallenged with a for-profit system that doesn't serve the needs of the majority and has the wrong focus. As I said in my first post on this subject, there needs to be compromise. No side of the political side is COMPLETELY right and both sides have legitimate positions that need to be considered and brought into the discussion for the good of the voter/citizen. If someone is willing to discount ALL the ideas from the other side and become entrenched in their positions to the exclusion of reason, they are part of the problem and why we're so divided as a nation. We all need to put our country over our party every ******* time.

Well given that the government intervention is what is causing how expensive healthcare is maybe we should remove the cause of the expenses...

4 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Well given that the government intervention is what is causing how expensive healthcare is maybe we should remove the cause of the expenses...

Going back to your "where has Socialism worked" comment that drew me in, can you tell me where this system of healthcare has worked well? How many other countries in the world have a health system like ours?

And from all the other countries in the world that DO have healthcare, how many have 13% of their population with zero coverage (that's what we have here)? Canada? Australia? Britain? New Zealand? Any country in the EU?

2 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Well given that the government intervention is what is causing how expensive healthcare is maybe we should remove the cause of the expenses...

Stop talking about the Rockefellers that way.

1 hour ago, Eoen said:

True but fiction is informed by reality, all the **** the Soviet Union, the USA, France, China, and Germany have done the Empire (or even the Republic) would do. Lucas himself said he was inspired by real world events and politics. There’s a reason why guys with British accents command Stormtroopers.

That's a common flag planted when Star Wars political discussions run amok. "But, Space-Nazis!"

How much of the last few pages have mentioned Star Wars? There are endless forums to discuss politics without mention of Star Wars. This is one of the few forums to discuss Star Wars RPG's. Speak about Star Wars AND politics, even relation to real-world politics directly....while keeping the discussion actually about Star Wars. I'm ok with that. But, if you took a direct link into this discussion past the first few pages, you might not be able to even recognize you are on a Star Wars gaming forum.

I would just like a little less vitriol between us Star Wars gaming nerds. This is the best place to discuss Star Wars FFG. Why put a wedge between this brother/sisterhood by delving into possibly the worst topic imaginable when that can easily be discussed elsewhere?

There was once another gaming forum I was a member of for years and visited daily like this one. I quit even looking at it a few years ago. Why? Political discussions that had little to do with the actual genre of the forums. That forum was moderated and still slipped into that chasm. This one isn't moderated so I fear if politics sans Star Wars becomes a regular thing, there will be quite a few members that disdain each other enough that they stop visiting. Or, those looking for SW RPG goodness have to comb through the threads to find it with the topics giving little notice of what is actually inside. The topic of this thread is, "How would a healthcare system in Star Wars work?" That Corellian Gunship hyperspaced long ago. We need an Interdictor.

28 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

We do not call ourselves a democracy. We are a Representative Republic.

Well, you call yourself one, at least. It doesn't seem very representive.

Just now, micheldebruyn said:

Well, you call yourself one, at least. It doesn't seem very representive.

we do (when it suits us) and it doesn't represent the majority (or the popular vote would count).

It’s the topic in this case that’s the problem. Every time the question was asked people split into there preferred political block. This has been a continuous problem with the entire Star Wars community since the cry “Mary Sue” went out. Cause Rey ruined some people’s childhood.

4 minutes ago, Eoen said:

It’s the topic in this case that’s the problem.

Not if we have the will power to actually stay on topic.

3 minutes ago, Sturn said:

Not if we have the will power to actually stay on topic.

We clearly don’t, I’ve tried to direct to topic back to healthcare a few times without headway.

Really the topic should be what would the Republic do and what would the Empire do with healthcare. But immediately it’s seen as an attack on the status quo.

6 minutes ago, Sturn said:

This is one of the few forums to discuss Star Wars RPG's.

I know I have chimed in over the last few pages so am partially to blame but I think that's a good thing to keep top of mind for all of us. I'm only here because I love this game, not to argue or bicker with people.

1 minute ago, Eoen said:

It’s the topic in this case that’s the problem. Every time the question was asked people split into there preferred political block. This has been a continuous problem with the entire Star Wars community since the cry “Mary Sue” went out whole world over the last few decades and just seems to be getting worse.

Fixed that for you but fundamentally totally agree. We are very fractured, polarized and tribal as a society right now.

38 minutes ago, micheldebruyn said:

Well, you call yourself one, at least. It doesn't seem very representive.

What are you talking about mining and oil companies have at least on rural Senator in their pocket they bought plenty of representation.

18 hours ago, Daeglan said:

The reason many here dont like the European model for caring for people is it often involves not providing care fore people and denying them the ability to go elsewhere to get care. Having people die from dehydration in hospitals is not an improvement in my mind. Could our health care system be improved. Yes. I dont think European method are one though. They tend to involve rationing care and doing nothing to increase the amount of healthcare available.

This is the most bs post I have read by you here, and that is saying something.
As a European I am super curious to find out where you get this nonsense notion of our healthcare from!?

I would then draw your attention to the following stats where the average lifespans of people are shown and the USA comes in at position 35 a long way behind most EU countries.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

55 minutes ago, DanteRotterdam said:

This is the most bs post I have read by you here, and that is saying something.
As a European I am super curious to find out where you get this nonsense notion of our healthcare from!?

You do realize that in Europe you will often have to wait to get needed care right? You may have to wait month for a procedure. You know that right?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/two-patients-die-starvation-thirst-each-day-nhs-hospitals-uk-care-homes-statistics-office-national-a7517171.html

https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/25/health/alfie-evans-appeal-bn/index.html

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/03/terminally-boy-denied-potentially-life-saving-treatment-nhs/

I get it from what your healthcare systems actually does.

5 hours ago, DanteRotterdam said:

This is the most bs post I have read by you here, and that is saying something.
As a European I am super curious to find out where you get this nonsense notion of our healthcare from!?

There are dozens of think tanks in Washington DC who get paid ridiculous sums if money to come up with Republican talking points. Then every Republican media outlet starts the spin factory up spreading the sophistry around so any time get in a political debate with a Republican you hear pretty much the same talking points from each of them. It’s a pretty impressive political machine actually.

The Democrats try to do the same **** though they are not as good the think tank game.

There are some impressively scary YouTube videos that show different media outlets in the US reading word for word the same script on “the news”.

When I was a kid the use to tell us scary stories about Pravda, but the Soviets were amateur hour in the propaganda game compared to today’s American media.

2 minutes ago, Eoen said:

There are dozens of think tanks in Washington DC who get paid ridiculous sums if money to come up with Republican talking points. Then every Republican media outlet starts the spin factory up spreading the sophistry around so any time get in a political debate with a Republican you hear pretty much the same talking points from each of them. It’s a pretty impressive political machine actually.

The Democrats try to do the same shot though they are not as good the think tank game.

There are some impressively scary YouTube videos that show different media outlets in the US reading word for word the same script on “the news”.

I always find if funny when people make such horribly misinformed opinions about me.
1. Not a republican
2. Just because I dont think the government is the solution does not mean i dont think it should be done. I just have yet to see anything at all that the government does well. Generally what I see is the government F-up anything it gets involved with.

13 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

I always find if funny when people make such horribly misinformed opinions about me.
1. Not a republican
2. Just because I dont think the government is the solution does not mean i dont think it should be done. I just have yet to see anything at all that the government does well. Generally what I see is the government F-up anything it gets involved with.

I agree with point two myself. Except I come some a military family, and civil servants but I’ve worked for private companies my whole life. The BS is just as bad in corporate America maybe even worse as it is in the government.

Also the government prefers people to think its an embarrassment, they love being underestimated. The truth is elements of them are world class killers unparalleled in their craft.

2 minutes ago, Eoen said:

I agree with point two myself. Except I come some a military family, and civil servants but I’ve worked for private companies my whole life. The BS is just as bad in corporate America maybe even worse as it is in the government.

Also the government prefers people to think its an embarrassment, they love being underestimated. The truth is elements of them are world class killers unparalleled in their craft.

I also have seen many parts of the government used for political gain. And I dont want healthcare to be another tool the government can use to keep people in line. Behave how we want or your insulin prescription with get misfiled. Do you really want your worst political opponant to have control over something like that? I don't. So yeah I am very much against single payer.

31 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

You do realize that in Europe you will often have to wait to get needed care right? You may have to wait month for a procedure. You know that right?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/two-patients-die-starvation-thirst-each-day-nhs-hospitals-uk-care-homes-statistics-office-national-a7517171.html

https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/25/health/alfie-evans-appeal-bn/index.html

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/03/terminally-boy-denied-potentially-life-saving-treatment-nhs/

I get it from what your healthcare systems actually does.

3 examples of cases in the uk do not give an insight into European healthcare they give an insight into 3 cases (and 3 very dubiously reported on cases at that, because Alfie’s parents were absolutely in the wrong and the first article has more to do with elderly people being treated in a home moreso then anything else) of one countries healthcare system.
I could selectively google 3 cases of medical issues in the USA as well but seeing how that is useless when discussing a system I’ll save myself the trouble.

14 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

I also have seen many parts of the government used for political gain. And I dont want healthcare to be another tool the government can use to keep people in line. Behave how we want or your insulin prescription with get misfiled. Do you really want your worst political opponant to have control over something like that? I don't. So yeah I am very much against single payer.

The same families that run our Government also own the corporations, and the charities. Private Doctors already work for them, and American Doctors are the third largest cause of death in the country. Google already centralized everyone’s medical records, there’s nothing stopping Eugenics at this point.

Our current healthcare is vast net funneling funds to the Rockefellers.

1 hour ago, Eoen said:

The same families that run our Government also own the corporations, and the charities. Private Doctors already work for them, and American Doctors are the third largest cause of death in the country. Google already centralized everyone’s medical records, there’s nothing stopping Eugenics at this point.

Our current healthcare is vast net funneling funds to the Rockefellers.

the difference is competition. In a government run thing there is none. In a private corporation there is nothing stopping someone else from providing the service. Also private corporations tend to suffer the consequences for bad behavior. Where as government entities do not.