What are you guys talking about?

Healthcare in Star Wars (or any other RPG) only works one way (or you are doing it wrong per RAW):

So-called “heroes” (aka murderhobos/rebels/terrorists/mass-murders/characters played by you or your friends) are covered under the self-pay plan. If they have no stimpacks, they get no healing. Simple, easy, better keep those credits.

Everyone else is under the GM fiat plan. A true utopian system that is absolutely magical. Were you thrown from a Deathstar? No worries. Were your arms and legs severed while you burned? We’ll get you fixed, from a certain point of view. Were you sliced in half? Here are some robo-spider legs. No stimpacks, no credits, it just happens. It’s more magical than space wizards!

Sure, it is a little discriminatory and the only way to switch plans is with a complete loss of player agency, but no system is perfect.

19 minutes ago, DanteRotterdam said:

You seem to misunderstand how cause and effect works. Well, only as long as it benefits your arguments of course.

You seem to not understand the chain of logic from a business owner's point of view. So if a government entity has live or die power over a company they are going to lobby to get that entity under their control and they are going to wield that entity against their competition. So yeah I do know how cause and effect work. I dont think you understand how businesses think. I see this a lot in people who think regulations will solve everything. With out considering what that will incentivise a company to do. When you set a an entity to have sweeping control over a company they are going to seek to control that entity. No amount of trying to prevent corruption or lobbying will fix that fundamental problem. But if you use market forces to reign in bad behavior there is no entity to seek control over so the only solution is to make better products.

38 minutes ago, Darth Revenant said:

No, the problem is giving drug companies access to those tools through lobbyists and government corruption. The problem is based with the companies being able to use the corrupt system to flourish. It's based on the corruption in the system and the fact companies are rewarded for using the system. Reform the system so it works as intended, not dismantle it all and let the companies have free reign. Expect better of your government and make your voice heard through activism.

yeah since government workers dont suffer consequences for bad behavior how would you do that...

4 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

You seem to not understand the chain of logic from a business owner's point of view.

My paycheck disagrees.

7 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

You seem to not understand the chain of logic from a business owner's point of view.

The kind of companies we're talking about do not have business owners. They have CEOs beholden to shareholders. You do not understand how companies that are not tiny work.

7 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

yeah since government workers dont suffer consequences for bad behavior how would you do that...

They do with a functioning non-corrupt government where they're under public scrutiny. Hold government accountable for their actions, they're part of the social contract. They have obligations towards you as a citizen, if they don't fulfill those obligations then work towards change in government. If they are truly resistant to this change then use more radical means. But if you have the privilege of living in a open democracy, use your right of free speech, right of congregations and your vote to change the system to work the way you want it to work.

Some more of that good faith debating going on here, huh?

”l am talking about how it should work! If capitalism would truly be the driving force. Not the capitalism of your examples but actual capitalism!”

Same guy five minutes later...

”I am not interested to hear how government should work! If it can be corrupted it will be corrupted! I have no need for your utopian fantasies!”

27 minutes ago, Darth Revenant said:

They do with a functioning non-corrupt government where they're under public scrutiny. Hold government accountable for their actions, they're part of the social contract. They have obligations towards you as a citizen, if they don't fulfill those obligations then work towards change in government. If they are truly resistant to this change then use more radical means. But if you have the privilege of living in a open democracy, use your right of free speech, right of congregations and your vote to change the system to work the way you want it to work.

And we are back to the circular logic that these companies are going to try very hard to influence an entity that has control over them. I am not aware of any setup that will prevent that other than the controlling entity being the customers who are too amorphous to control.

2 minutes ago, DanteRotterdam said:

Some more of that good faith debating going on here, huh?

”l am talking about how it should work! If capitalism would truly be the driving force. Not the capitalism of your examples but actual capitalism!”

Same guy five minutes later...

”I am not interested to hear how government should work! If it can be corrupted it will be corrupted! I have no need for your utopian fantasies!”

OK show me a government that does not have corruption in it.

1 hour ago, Darth Revenant said:

No, the problem is giving drug companies access to those tools through lobbyists and government corruption. The problem is based with the companies being able to use the corrupt system to flourish. It's based on the corruption in the system and the fact companies are rewarded for using the system. Reform the system so it works as intended, not dismantle it all and let the companies have free reign. Expect better of your government and make your voice heard through activism.

So... like the CIS. And now we're back to Star Wars!

4 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

OK show me a government that does not have corruption in it.

Show me a corporation that does not have corruption in it. No large group of humans is going to be devoid of corruption.

1 hour ago, Daeglan said:

yeah since government workers dont suffer consequences for bad behavior how would you do that...

This is simply not true.

Just now, HappyDaze said:

This is simply not true.

Alternative facts

9 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

OK show me a government that does not have corruption in it.

Why am I doing your homework for you? Show me where libertarianism has worked.

19 minutes ago, DanteRotterdam said:

Why am I doing your homework for you? Show me where libertarianism has worked.

I tried that line of questioning before

On 3/11/2020 at 1:40 PM, DangerShine Designs said:

Going back to your "where has Socialism worked" comment that drew me in, can you tell me where this system of healthcare has worked well? How many other countries in the world have a health system like ours?

And from all the other countries in the world that DO have healthcare, how many have 13% of their population with zero coverage (that's what we have here)? Canada? Australia? Britain? New Zealand? Any country in the EU?

8 minutes ago, DangerShine Designs said:

I tried that line of questioning before

You guys are funny, you expect Libertarianism an American anti-communist ideology that originated in the communist second international to make sense?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism

56 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

And we are back to the circular logic that these companies are going to try very hard to influence an entity that has control over them. I am not aware of any setup that will prevent that other than the controlling entity being the customers who are too amorphous to control.

Your lack of awareness doesn't mean it's not possible. An independent branch of investigative journalists, strong public oversight and insight by the citizens as well as strong legislation and hard anti-corruption laws help quite a bit with it. The solution is not to grant companies their wet dream of doing away with regulations, the solution is to get their grubby mitts out of the regulatory branches. Then the market can functions because the corporations will not be able to use the regulatory administrations as tools to batter the competition and create a monopoly, they will have to function as you envision them to do.

50 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:

So... like the CIS. And now we're back to Star Wars!

Indeed, like CIS were trying to do and what I imagine goes on in the Corporate Sector Authority as well. I do kind of wish and hope they release a CSA focused book for the games as well, Star Wars is a wonderful setting where you can include basically everything. Some more information about the Corporate Sector and their shenanigans would make for quite an awesome playground for spies and shady dealings.

7 minutes ago, Eoen said:

You guys are funny, you expect Libertarianism an American anti-communist ideology that originated in the communist second international to make sense?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism

I know, I know, I'm such a card.

3 minutes ago, Darth Revenant said:

Indeed, like CIS were trying to do and what I imagine goes on in the Corporate Sector Authority as well. I do kind of wish and hope they release a CSA focused book for the games as well, Star Wars is a wonderful setting where you can include basically everything. Some more information about the Corporate Sector and their shenanigans would make for quite an awesome playground for spies and shady dealings.

I like the CSA setting it’s just that it’s barely cannon, except for the nod in The Last Jedi when they went to Cantobright which is in the CSA, but that’s not mentioned in the movie.

57 minutes ago, DanteRotterdam said:

Why am I doing your homework for you? Show me where libertarianism has worked.

Show me where it has actually been tried. I have yet to see any form of government not have corruption.

8 minutes ago, DangerShine Designs said:

I know, I know, I'm such a card.

32 minutes ago, Eoen said:

You guys are funny, you expect Libertarianism an American anti-communist ideology that originated in the communist second international to make sense?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_socialism

When have I ever advocated Libertarian socialism?

1 minute ago, Daeglan said:

Show me where it has actually been tried. I have yet to see any form of government not have corruption.

Your bar isn’t realistic input humans into any institution and you get corruption.

Just now, Daeglan said:

When have I ever advocated Libertarian socialism?

The two strains of libertarianism are intrinsically linked sharing core values.