Folks — do I have to start reporting each and every post in this thread?
Can we please kill this subject and get back to actual Star Wars?
How would a healthcare system in Star Wars work?
28 minutes ago, Sturn said:So, looking back in here....no one has convinced anyone to change their minds. And, some posters dislike each other a bit more. Way to go folks. Can we put the same zeal in some threads that are still on track regarding Star Wars and RPGs?
Don't those threads also change no minds and result in posters disliking each other a little more?
I mean, we already see plenty of zeal there, right?
1 minute ago, bradknowles said:Folks — do I have to start reporting each and every post in this thread?
Can we please kill this subject and get back to actual Star Wars?
Do it. Do it! DO IT!!!
Or don't. There are plenty of other threads that focus on Star Wars. The title of this thread may have "Star Wars" in it, but I think most people can see through that flimsy illusion much as with any "Immigration in Star Wars," "Borders in Star Wars," "Bothawexit," or any other click-bait.
1 minute ago, HappyDaze said:Don't those threads also change no minds and result in posters disliking each other a little more?
I mean, we already see plenty of zeal there, right?
If you are speaking of the armor discussion as an example? Yes that had loads of venom also and I spoke out against it too. But, it at least it was a discussion regarding this SW RPG. This thread? It's turned into real-world politics without anything to do with Star Wars or RPG's. With what benefit to this gaming forum and FFG/Edge's SW RPG and its fans? Any chance of changing someone's mind for these topics? As I've said before, please go speak of real world politics elsewhere. I'm thinking there are a few forums available for that.
Why is this a personal pet-peeve? As I've said before, I've seen a forum having nothing to do with real world politics get overwhelmed by it. Newcomers were quickly put off when they step in to discuss a fun topic and it turns into vitriol especially when they were on the wrong "side" of the discussions that had nothing to do with the forum. Some veterans of the forum who enjoyed it ended up leaving it (I'm an example). The hatred brewed by such discussions even got to the point that a person actually called my real-world workplace once to complain about a post I had made! I ended up leaving that forum that had initially been a daily visit like this one. I don't want to see that here. There's always been some heated discussions here and the forum has lived through them. But at least keep the arguments on Star Wars and RPG's so there is at least some benefit to the forum at hand.
36 minutes ago, Daeglan said:
Geeee it seems I actually did in a step by step process......
And how do you suggest you're going to get hospitals to cut their prices by 90% for your point 2?
Also, your point 5 means millions of Americans won't see another doctor for the rest of their lives, whether they need one or not. It also means that catastrophic events will happen a lot more often because people won't be having checkups anymore.
18 minutes ago, bradknowles said:Folks — do I have to start reporting each and every post in this thread?
Can we please kill this subject and get back to actual Star Wars?
You can just, you know, not read this thread. I don't think there still are any mods or this would have ended ages ago.
15 minutes ago, Sturn said:If you are speaking of the armor discussion as an example? Yes that had loads of venom also and I spoke out against it too. But, it at least it was a discussion regarding this SW RPG. This thread? It's turned into real-world politics without anything to do with Star Wars or RPG's. With what benefit to this gaming forum and FFG/Edge's SW RPG and its fans? Any chance of changing someone's mind for these topics? As I've said before, please go speak of real world politics elsewhere. I'm thinking there are a few forums available for that.
Why is this a personal pet-peeve? As I've said before, I've seen a forum having nothing to do with real world politics get overwhelmed by it. Newcomers were quickly put off when they step in to discuss a fun topic and it turns into vitriol especially when they were on the wrong "side" of the discussions that had nothing to do with the forum. Some veterans of the forum who enjoyed it ended up leaving it (I'm an example). The hatred brewed by such discussions even got to the point that a person actually called my real-world workplace once to complain about a post I had made! I ended up leaving that forum that had initially been a daily visit like this one. I don't want to see that here. There's always been some heated discussions here and the forum has lived through them. But at least keep the arguments on Star Wars and RPG's so there is at least some benefit to the forum at hand.
These forums are dead already. The new studio may or may not have their own soon, but Asmodee has taken RPGs away from FFG so we're all just worms burrowing through a corpse here.
13 minutes ago, HappyDaze said:These forums are dead already. The new studio may or may not have their own soon, but Asmodee has taken RPGs away from FFG so we're all just worms burrowing through a corpse here.
I agree there will probably be a new Edge forum SOMEDAY. Until then we scare new comers off? Raise the vitiriol? Scavenge away?
Edited by Sturn11 minutes ago, Sturn said:I agree there will probably be a new Edge forum SOMEDAY. Until then we scare new comers off? Raise the vitiriol? Scavenge away?
Is it even possible for there to be newcomers? Don't new accounts have to approved or something?
6 hours ago, micheldebruyn said:And how do you suggest you're going to get hospitals to cut their prices by 90% for your point 2?
Also, your point 5 means millions of Americans won't see another doctor for the rest of their lives, whether they need one or not. It also means that catastrophic events will happen a lot more often because people won't be having checkups anymore.
By making it so they HAVE to compete. Get rid of the stupid certificate of need. If they have to compete with surgery centers that dont take insurance and publish their prices online. I posted a link to a whole bunch of them. Problem is due to certificate of need they are often not local. And if insurance companies start demanding the prices they could get at a no insurance surgery center they will get it. It is all about removing the barriers to competition. As that is why a tv that didnt exist 10 years ago can actually be gotten for a good price.
3 hours ago, Daeglan said:By making it so they HAVE to compete. Get rid of the stupid certificate of need. If they have to compete with surgery centers that dont take insurance and publish their prices online. I posted a link to a whole bunch of them. Problem is due to certificate of need they are often not local. And if insurance companies start demanding the prices they could get at a no insurance surgery center they will get it. It is all about removing the barriers to competition. As that is why a tv that didnt exist 10 years ago can actually be gotten for a good price.
So basically you want a completely unregulated, for profit capitalistic system, and you're expecting the people to magically not act based on corporate greed?
15 hours ago, Daeglan said:By making it so they HAVE to compete. Get rid of the stupid certificate of need. If they have to compete with surgery centers that dont take insurance and publish their prices online. I posted a link to a whole bunch of them. Problem is due to certificate of need they are often not local. And if insurance companies start demanding the prices they could get at a no insurance surgery center they will get it. It is all about removing the barriers to competition. As that is why a tv that didnt exist 10 years ago can actually be gotten for a good price.
riiiiiight...
because private companies do not have a history of agreements between them to screw the customers keeping prices high and do not at all need to be regulated by authorities so they don't...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competition_law
they're totally trustworthy and none of them go build factories in countries where labor laws are inexistant...
and private medical clinics do not at all try to drop all medical services that aren't profitable enough and send them to the public service in countries where both coexist...
/s
Edited by MB -Fr-7 hours ago, Daeglan said:By making it so they HAVE to compete. Get rid of the stupid certificate of need. If they have to compete with surgery centers that dont take insurance and publish their prices online. I posted a link to a whole bunch of them. Problem is due to certificate of need they are often not local. And if insurance companies start demanding the prices they could get at a no insurance surgery center they will get it. It is all about removing the barriers to competition. As that is why a tv that didnt exist 10 years ago can actually be gotten for a good price.
To wade back into something I should probably leave well alone. But what about chronic conditions and more complex diseases that require a lot of follow up care. I had a colleague who had to take out his gallbladder and he got sepsis, went into a coma and had to stay at the hospital for 5 months after that. The original cost for the surgery in your example might have been 800 dollaridoes, which can still ruin someone, but what then after that? He's now stuck in a situation where he needs to be at the hospital every single day or he dies. Who is going to foot that bill for 24/7 care seven days a week? Also what is a reasonable market price for such a service? This after all goes way further than a hotel stay, since it's taking up a bed, nurses as well as a doctor, 3 meals a day and medicine. It's likely to be a lot more expensive than just some lasic eyes surgery.
There are tons of ways people get sick, lots of them where the sad fact is that you're never actually going to get back to 100 again. You will never again be as healthy as you were and in some cases you will need tons of follow up care or you die, also your working ability is drastically impacted and your ability to earn a living wage is reduced. What will be the options for these people?
Going back on subject here:
Having scoured through Wookieepedia for anything healthcare related, I've come to the conclusion that each planet handled their healthcare their own way.
The Republic seems to have had no standardized healthcare to speak about.
The Empire seems to only have cared about their Military and for a few select core worlds.
In general, it seems to have been completely up to the planetary government how healthcare was handled.
That said, it seems that even if it wasn't universal healthcare, the costs seem to be pretty low in general for most treatments.
The prevalence of Medical droids and bacta could also be a factor in why medical care doesn't seem to be very expensive, if not completely free.
And since bacta (and before that, kolto) has been around for a very very long time, it seems to have largely taken over most medicinal needs.
3 hours ago, Darth Revenant said:To wade back into something I should probably leave well alone. But what about chronic conditions and more complex diseases that require a lot of follow up care. I had a colleague who had to take out his gallbladder and he got sepsis, went into a coma and had to stay at the hospital for 5 months after that. The original cost for the surgery in your example might have been 800 dollaridoes, which can still ruin someone, but what then after that? He's now stuck in a situation where he needs to be at the hospital every single day or he dies. Who is going to foot that bill for 24/7 care seven days a week? Also what is a reasonable market price for such a service? This after all goes way further than a hotel stay, since it's taking up a bed, nurses as well as a doctor, 3 meals a day and medicine. It's likely to be a lot more expensive than just some lasic eyes surgery.
There are tons of ways people get sick, lots of them where the sad fact is that you're never actually going to get back to 100 again. You will never again be as healthy as you were and in some cases you will need tons of follow up care or you die, also your working ability is drastically impacted and your ability to earn a living wage is reduced. What will be the options for these people?
That would be what catastrophic coverage insurance would be for. And catastrophic coverage is very cheap.
So catastrophic coverage would cover chronic pain? Antidepressants? Insuline? Etc?
7 minutes ago, DanteRotterdam said:So catastrophic coverage would cover chronic pain? Antidepressants? Insuline? Etc?
Being a diabetic. Insulin is not that expensive. None of those are that expensive. Especially if you deal with the mess we have at the FDA.
4 minutes ago, Daeglan said:Being a diabetic. Insulin is not that expensive.
I guess it’s all relative.
33 minutes ago, Daeglan said:That would be what catastrophic coverage insurance would be for. And catastrophic coverage is very cheap.
What is your plan for insurance companies refusing to take on clients with pre-existing conditions?
3 hours ago, Daeglan said:That would be what catastrophic coverage insurance would be for. And catastrophic coverage is very cheap.
Ok, but what is the annual cost of very cheap that you envision? And how would the costs be affected by chronic conditions and age? Also what about rural areas and high risk occupations? What are the options for emergency services and what hospitals would take which patients? What about psychiatric care, stress related illnesses or loss of income from lowered ability to work? Is there an upper limit to what the insurance company would be expected to pay for? How would your insurance premium be decided and who makes that decision?` How many times a year do you need to have a check up to no longer be covered? What sort of increase would be reasonable once you have developed a chronic condition and become an at risk patient? Also what about organ donations and organ transplants? How is a donor selected and from where are they picked, what sort of compensation do they and their close ones get, how is the bidding system ordered for the organs and what are the options for the medication and after care needed after a transplant?There is a lot more to this than just saying the market would sort it out if not hindered by legislation. Saying the market will sort it out is kind of like letting go of the wheel in a speeding car and saying physics will sort it out.
So far I'm pretty happy with the 11% of my income tax that is earmarked for the public health sector. It's not even all used for that but also roads and other services. I'm pretty sure that the amount I pay into it will be well used and I will benefit from it as well when I fall sick or get older and more prone to have to visit the doctor. Knowing that it's taken care of for me is quite a weight of my shoulders.
6 hours ago, DanteRotterdam said:
Remember that part where i said we had to deal with the FDA mess. Yeah i already covered that.
2 hours ago, Darth Revenant said:Ok, but what is the annual cost of very cheap that you envision? And how would the costs be affected by chronic conditions and age? Also what about rural areas and high risk occupations? What are the options for emergency services and what hospitals would take which patients? What about psychiatric care, stress related illnesses or loss of income from lowered ability to work? Is there an upper limit to what the insurance company would be expected to pay for? How would your insurance premium be decided and who makes that decision?` How many times a year do you need to have a check up to no longer be covered? What sort of increase would be reasonable once you have developed a chronic condition and become an at risk patient? Also what about organ donations and organ transplants? How is a donor selected and from where are they picked, what sort of compensation do they and their close ones get, how is the bidding system ordered for the organs and what are the options for the medication and after care needed after a transplant?There is a lot more to this than just saying the market would sort it out if not hindered by legislation. Saying the market will sort it out is kind of like letting go of the wheel in a speeding car and saying physics will sort it out.
So far I'm pretty happy with the 11% of my income tax that is earmarked for the public health sector. It's not even all used for that but also roads and other services. I'm pretty sure that the amount I pay into it will be well used and I will benefit from it as well when I fall sick or get older and more prone to have to visit the doctor. Knowing that it's taken care of for me is quite a weight of my shoulders.
You keep pointing out problems that are literally caused buy government intervention and if it proves that we need government intervention to solve this. That is like saying the curenfor alcoholism is to make sure we drink more booze.
4 minutes ago, Daeglan said:Remember that part where i said we had to deal with the FDA mess. Yeah i already covered that.
What exactly is the FDA mess?
QuoteYou keep pointing out problems that are literally caused buy government intervention and if it proves that we need government intervention to solve this. That is like saying the curenfor alcoholism is to make sure we drink more booze.
He's not pointing out problems. He's asking reasonable questions about how your absence of a system will deal with this stuff.
Edited by micheldebruynJust now, Daeglan said:You keep pointing out problems that are literally caused buy government intervention and if it proves that we need government intervention to solve this. That is like saying the curenfor alcoholism is to make sure we drink more booze.
How are these problems caused by government intervention and what is your proposed solution? And don't just say the market will fix it itself if left without regulations. Give some solid examples. What is the heart of a motorcycle enthusiast worth on the market? How much should a transplant cost? How are the transplant organs secured? Who will said organ go to? Please, give some answers to these questions, show that you have actually put more than a mere smidgen of thought into your proposed free market utopia.