Just now, Daeglan said:the difference is competition. In a government run thing there is none. In a private corporation there is nothing stopping someone else from providing the service. Also private corporations tend to suffer the consequences for bad behavior. Where as government entities do not.
I’ve never seen any Fortune 500 suffer the consequences of their bad behavior. They occasionally get a slap on the wrist, or have to change their name.
Also, the idea behind UHC is that the government becomes the sole bargainer and has the ability to implement regulations that prevents health care from being insanely expensive and prohibitive, and makes it affordable and accessible. You still get to keep your doctor - you just aren't the one who is billed.
Edited by StarkJuniorJust now, Eoen said:I’ve never seen any Fortune 500 suffer the consequences of their bad behavior. They occasionally get a slap on the wrist, or have to change their name.
still more than what bad behavior from the government gets.
53 minutes ago, Daeglan said:the difference is competition. In a government run thing there is none. In a private corporation there is nothing stopping someone else from providing the service. Also private corporations tend to suffer the consequences for bad behavior. Where as government entities do not.
In most countries with government-run healthcare, the option to get private health insurance exists.
Also, if private health insurers in America tended to suffer the consequences for their bad behaviour, they would have gone out of business ages ago.
On 3/6/2020 at 3:17 AM, whafrog said:*sigh* and da**, I waded in. I swore not to 🙄 I'll wade back out.
Because the DanteBruyn is strong in you, just too tempting for that kind of instinct driven breed not to wade in. 😂
Coming from one of those european "universal healthcare wonderlands" I can asure you that you throw increasingly more money into this highly inefficient black hole and get less service instead and even have to pay privately on top for those services financed by your own tax money. And in the end the government diverts much of this tax money paid solely for healthcare for their own different party political means. I highly doubt that an universal healthcare system spanning thousands of systems works if not even one single country on earth manages this to an even mediocre degree.
If we talk about Star Trek though, there it works. But Star Wars is not Star Trek, which is a completely different take on a scifi society.
Yeah, might be your experience, but I hear VASTLY more stories of it being a net positive across the board whole cloth, and anything is better than the US. UHC for all.
27 minutes ago, micheldebruyn said:In most countries with government-run healthcare, the option to get private health insurance exists.
Also, if private health insurers in America tended to suffer the consequences for their bad behaviour, they would have gone out of business ages ago.
That is because of government intervention. The laws are set up so there isnt really any competition. If the problem laws were removed it would be 30 different insurance companies competing. Much of the problems we see are unintended consequences of laws that meant well but just cause problems.
4 minutes ago, DarthDude said:Because the DanteBruyn is strong in you, just too tempting for that kind of instinct driven breed not to wade in. 😂
Coming from one of those european "universal healthcare wonderlands" I can asure you that you throw increasingly more money into this highly inefficient black hole and get less service instead and even have to pay privately on top for those services financed by your own tax money. And in the end the government diverts much of this tax money paid solely for healthcare for their own different party political means. I highly doubt that an universal healthcare system spanning thousands of systems works if not even one single country on earth manages this to an even mediocre degree.
If we talk about Star Trek though, there it works. But Star Wars is not Star Trek, which is a completely different take on a scifi society.
Medicine in Star Trek is under the military, I’ve never even seen a civilian Doctor in that show.
2 minutes ago, StarkJunior said:Yeah, might be your experience, but I hear VASTLY more stories of it being a net positive across the board whole cloth, and anything is better than the US. UHC for all.
vastly more people barely use the system so dont experience the problem
1 minute ago, Daeglan said:That is because of government intervention. The laws are set up so there isnt really any competition. If the problem laws were removed it would be 30 different insurance companies competing. Much of the problems we see are unintended consequences of laws that meant well but just cause problems.
Big businesses like insurance companies do almost everything possible not to have to compete. Just look at the cable industry regional monopolies from shore to shore.
Just now, Eoen said:Big businesses like insurance companies do almost everything possible not to have to compete. Just look at the cable industry regional monopolies from shore to shore.
and they use government to ensure their monopolies. Which demonstrates that handing over health care to the government will not fix healthcare. Just ensure we dont have other options.
12 minutes ago, DarthDude said:Because the DanteBruyn is strong in you, just too tempting for that kind of instinct driven breed not to wade in. 😂
Coming from one of those european "universal healthcare wonderlands" I can asure you that you throw increasingly more money into this highly inefficient black hole and get less service instead and even have to pay privately on top for those services financed by your own tax money. And in the end the government diverts much of this tax money paid solely for healthcare for their own different party political means. I highly doubt that an universal healthcare system spanning thousands of systems works if not even one single country on earth manages this to an even mediocre degree.
If we talk about Star Trek though, there it works. But Star Wars is not Star Trek, which is a completely different take on a scifi society.
You are in over your head. Let the grownups talk.
11 minutes ago, Daeglan said:vastly more people barely use the system so dont experience the problem
What? What are you talking about? Of course people ******* use their health care system.
You know the one reason why it may seem like people use the system less in other countries that have UHC? There's less sick people moving around day-to-day. If you have accessible and affordable health care you can go to the doctor VASTLY more often, and thus, ensure that you are less prone to getting really sick, or passing illness onto others.
People here in the US go to work, use public transportation, go to the venues, use public restrooms - and so many other things with a lot of other people - while they are sick, because they have no other option. And so, there's more transmission of illness.
A healthier society means less people have to use the system - but that can't fly in the US because sick people are needed for profits - but then, if you're too sick, they'd just prefer you die so they can stop paying for you.
3 minutes ago, Daeglan said:and they use government to ensure their monopolies. Which demonstrates that handing over health care to the government will not fix healthcare. Just ensure we dont have other options.
Then it’s a catch 22 isn’t it, your solution is to privatize, private business solution is to monopolize by lobbying government.
14 minutes ago, Eoen said:Medicine in Star Trek is under the military, I’ve never even seen a civilian Doctor in that show.
Picard once said: ‘We’ve overcome hunger and greed, and we’re no longer interested in the accumulation of things.'
You could at least assume based on this statement that the money free society in Star Trek will probably have a kind of money free universal health care as well.
8 minutes ago, DarthDude said:Picard once said: ‘We’ve overcome hunger and greed, and we’re no longer interested in the accumulation of things.'
You could at least assume based on this statement that the money free society in Star Trek will probably have a kind of money free universal health care as well.
Star Trek sometimes has money, there are gangs such the Orion Syndicate, swindlers like Harvey Mudd, and Feringi. They also occasionally revert to the barter system.
Edited by Eoen49 minutes ago, DarthDude said:If we talk about Star Trek though, there it works. But Star Wars is not Star Trek, which is a completely different take on a scifi society.
Star Wars isn't a take on a sci-fi society at all.
20 minutes ago, StarkJunior said:What? What are you talking about? Of course people ******* use their health care system.
You know the one reason why it may seem like people use the system less in other countries that have UHC? There's less sick people moving around day-to-day. If you have accessible and affordable health care you can go to the doctor VASTLY more often, and thus, ensure that you are less prone to getting really sick, or passing illness onto others.
People here in the US go to work, use public transportation, go to the venues, use public restrooms - and so many other things with a lot of other people - while they are sick, because they have no other option. And so, there's more transmission of illness.
A healthier society means less people have to use the system - but that can't fly in the US because sick people are needed for profits - but then, if you're too sick, they'd just prefer you die so they can stop paying for you.
Going to the doctor for a check up is not going to show the problems that getting some unusual condition will.
47 minutes ago, Daeglan said:That is because of government intervention. The laws are set up so there isnt really any competition. If the problem laws were removed it would be 30 different insurance companies competing. Much of the problems we see are unintended consequences of laws that meant well but just cause problems.
What laws, specifically?
26 minutes ago, Eoen said:Star Trek sometimes has money, there are gangs such the Orion Syndicate, swindlers like Harvey Mudd, and Feringi. They also occasionally revert to the barter system.
I guess the technological advances (way more than in Star Wars), especially the replicator technology, would help to build a post currency society. Imagine you could use a 3D printer like device to create virtually anything from a lump of rock, if it's an xbox, food and drink or even medicine. This could make the need for currency obsolete pretty easily.
Edited by DarthDude25 minutes ago, Daeglan said:Going to the doctor for a check up is not going to show the problems that getting some unusual condition will.
Obviously ******* not (except sometimes it does). But, do you know what it does almost gurantee?
Prevent something mild from becoming something serious, and prevents small things that compromise the body's ability to fight off larger issues from community spread.
Just now, StarkJunior said:Obviously ******* not. But, do you know what it does do?
Prevent something mild from becoming something serious, and prevents small things that compromise the body's ability to fight off larger issues from community spread.
I dont know about you but I prefer not having the government control my access to healthcare. Too much possibility of unscrupulous politicians using access as a method of control. China does stuff like this. I also dont like the majority of my paycheck going to pay for something I am not getting much benefit for. Basically I dont want the government trying to control me.
3 minutes ago, Daeglan said:I dont know about you but I prefer not having the government control my access to healthcare. Too much possibility of unscrupulous politicians using access as a method of control. China does stuff like this. I also dont like the majority of my paycheck going to pay for something I am not getting much benefit for. Basically I dont want the government trying to control me.
Coming from one of those european healthcare "wondelands" I can only say amen to this. Not only do I pay large amounts of tax money for the healthcare system but on top I receive decreased services for it and have to pay with my private money additionally on top. It's such a bloated system, the majority of the heathcare tax money is spent for government bureaucracy and not for actual medical services.
2 minutes ago, DarthDude said:Coming from one of those european healthcare "wondelands" I can only say amen to this. Not only do I pay large amounts of tax money for the healthcare system but on top I receive decreased services for it and have to pay with my private money additionally on top. It's such a bloated system, the majority of the heathcare tax money is spent for government bureaucracy and not for actual medical services.
You have no idea what American healthcare costs. Also having read a lot of your posts for a while now I am pretty comfortable stating that your healthcare is most likely a net loss for the country you hail from.
1 hour ago, Eoen said:Star Trek sometimes has money, there are gangs such the Orion Syndicate, swindlers like Harvey Mudd, and Feringi. They also occasionally revert to the barter system.
The technology might be available everywhere but I think the Federation is meant to be more evolved than the rest of the galaxy and likely provides UHC for it's people in addition to replicator services so that people can continue to be selfless and egalitarian. Don't think the other parts of the galaxy are meant to be as awesome as we are
