So I have 3 variations of a list and 1 totally different and I was hoping for opinions/suggestions.

all 4 lists are at 250 with ideal upgrades knowing that I might not get all upgrades before the campaign ends.

first the 3 variations

Name: RITR potential
Faction: Rebel
Commander:

Assault:
Defense:
Navigation:

Nebulon-B Support Refit (51)
• Auxiliary Shields Team (3)
• Slaved Turrets (6)
• Vanguard (4)
= 64 Points

Hammerhead Scout Corvette (41)
• Disposable Capacitors (3)
• Slaved Turrets (6)
= 50 Points

Hammerhead Scout Corvette (41)
• Disposable Capacitors (3)
• Slaved Turrets (6)
= 50 Points

Squadrons:
• Hera Syndulla (28)
• 2 x Scurrg H-6 Bomber (32)
• 2 x X-wing Squadron (26)
= 86 Points

Total Points: 250

—————————

Name: RITR potential 2
Faction: Rebel
Commander:

Assault:
Defense:
Navigation:

Nebulon-B Support Refit (51)
• Auxiliary Shields Team (3)
• Slaved Turrets (6)
= 60 Points

Nebulon-B Support Refit (51)
• Auxiliary Shields Team (3)
• Slaved Turrets (6)
= 60 Points

Nebulon-B Support Refit (51)
• Auxiliary Shields Team (3)
• Slaved Turrets (6)
= 60 Points

Squadrons:
• Hera Syndulla (28)
• 2 x Y-wing Squadron (20)
• 2 x A-wing Squadron (22)
= 70 Points

Total Points: 250

—————————

Name: RITR potential 3
Faction: Rebel
Commander:

Assault:
Defense:
Navigation:

CR90 Corvette A (44)
= 44 Points

Nebulon-B Support Refit (51)
• Auxiliary Shields Team (3)
• Slaved Turrets (6)
= 60 Points

Nebulon-B Support Refit (51)
• Auxiliary Shields Team (3)
• Slaved Turrets (6)
= 60 Points

Squadrons:
• Hera Syndulla (28)
• 2 x Scurrg H-6 Bomber (32)
• 2 x X-wing Squadron (26)
= 86 Points

Total Points: 250

—————————

And now the list that starts with 0 upgrades

Name: Star cruiser RITR
Faction: Rebel
Commander:

Assault:
Defense:
Navigation:

MC80 Star Cruiser (96)
• Intel Officer (7)
• Engine Techs (8)
• Leading Shots (4)
• Slaved Turrets (6)
• XI7 Turbolasers (6)
= 127 Points

Nebulon-B Support Refit (51)
• Auxiliary Shields Team (3)
• Linked Turbolaser Towers (7)
= 61 Points

Nebulon-B Support Refit (51)
• Auxiliary Shields Team (3)
• Linked Turbolaser Towers (7)
= 61 Points

Squadrons:
= 0 Points

Total Points: 249

Which list do you think will have the best results? One opponent has a victory/onager the other has victory/ISD

1 hour ago, DakkaDakka12 said:

So I have 3 variations of a list and 1 totally different and I was hoping for opinions/suggestions.

all 4 lists are at 250 with ideal upgrades knowing that I might not get all upgrades before the campaign ends.

first the 3 variations

Name: RITR potential
Faction: Rebel
Commander:

Assault:
Defense:
Navigation:

Nebulon-B Support Refit (51)
• Auxiliary Shields Team (3)
• Slaved Turrets (6)
• Vanguard (4)
= 64 Points

Hammerhead Scout Corvette (41)
• Disposable Capacitors (3)
• Slaved Turrets (6)
= 50 Points

Hammerhead Scout Corvette (41)
• Disposable Capacitors (3)
• Slaved Turrets (6)
= 50 Points

Squadrons:
• Hera Syndulla (28)
• 2 x Scurrg H-6 Bomber (32)
• 2 x X-wing Squadron (26)
= 86 Points

Total Points: 250

—————————

Name: RITR potential 2
Faction: Rebel
Commander:

Assault:
Defense:
Navigation:

Nebulon-B Support Refit (51)
• Auxiliary Shields Team (3)
• Slaved Turrets (6)
= 60 Points

Nebulon-B Support Refit (51)
• Auxiliary Shields Team (3)
• Slaved Turrets (6)
= 60 Points

Nebulon-B Support Refit (51)
• Auxiliary Shields Team (3)
• Slaved Turrets (6)
= 60 Points

Squadrons:
• Hera Syndulla (28)
• 2 x Y-wing Squadron (20)
• 2 x A-wing Squadron (22)
= 70 Points

Total Points: 250

—————————

Name: RITR potential 3
Faction: Rebel
Commander:

Assault:
Defense:
Navigation:

CR90 Corvette A (44)
= 44 Points

Nebulon-B Support Refit (51)
• Auxiliary Shields Team (3)
• Slaved Turrets (6)
= 60 Points

Nebulon-B Support Refit (51)
• Auxiliary Shields Team (3)
• Slaved Turrets (6)
= 60 Points

Squadrons:
• Hera Syndulla (28)
• 2 x Scurrg H-6 Bomber (32)
• 2 x X-wing Squadron (26)
= 86 Points

Total Points: 250

—————————

And now the list that starts with 0 upgrades

Name: Star cruiser RITR
Faction: Rebel
Commander:

Assault:
Defense:
Navigation:

MC80 Star Cruiser (96)
• Intel Officer (7)
• Engine Techs (8)
• Leading Shots (4)
• Slaved Turrets (6)
• XI7 Turbolasers (6)
= 127 Points

Nebulon-B Support Refit (51)
• Auxiliary Shields Team (3)
• Linked Turbolaser Towers (7)
= 61 Points

Nebulon-B Support Refit (51)
• Auxiliary Shields Team (3)
• Linked Turbolaser Towers (7)
= 61 Points

Squadrons:
= 0 Points

Total Points: 249

Which list do you think will have the best results? One opponent has a victory/onager the other has victory/ISD

I feel like I said a lot about why you don’t want to anchor a fleet with Neb-Bs on your other thread. Hammerheads are even weaker, as they lack a Brace token; 7 damage and an accuracy to stop your Redirect, and they just evaporate.

The RitR environment hasn’t gotten any friendlier to these little ships since wave 8, either. Hammerheads & Neb-Bs get melted by an Onager, especially on a 3x3 field; there’s just no running away from that superweapon. It’s MUCH easier to arc-dodge with Hammerheads & Neb-Bs in Standard, where you have a 33% larger deployment zone, more room to run around the sides, and can present more pressing threats to the opponent. But on the 3x3 map, an OTB tucked into a corner controls most of the field. These are not the ships you want to challenge that with. For that matter, a VSD-II with Disposable Capacitors is plenty dangerous. Overlapping that field of fire with an Onager? Your small ships won’t make it past midfield.

If you want to use little guys, you have to present a bigger threat to draw fire and flank hard with the little ones, or you have to have extreme maneuvering capability. Speed 4 ships (CR90s, MC30s), ships capable of faking speed 4 (Nebulon-Bs with Engine Techs), ships with Evade tokens (better yet, redundant Evade tokens), and ships with good shield & hull values (AFMkII, all of the MC80-class ships, MC75s, Starhawks) are where you want to be right now. Hammerheads, Nebulon-B Frigates, and Peltas are in a tough spot right now, and if you use them, I think you’re gonna want to pair them with a more survivable partner.

I agree with CaptObvs.

The Onager is looking like a solid pick every campaign.

it would be helpful to post your lists at 200 points. I’m a big fan of the idea that you should build to be effective now, not after a bunch of upgrades come in.

Ok I guess something like this is a better direction? I keep worrying about black dice ships if I am 2nd player.

Name: Test
Faction: Rebel
Commander:

Assault:
Defense:
Navigation:

MC75 Ordnance Cruiser (100)
• Electronic Countermeasures (7)
= 107 Points

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63)
• Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)
= 68 Points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
• Slicer Tools (7)
= 25 Points

Squadrons:
= 0 Points

Total Points: 200

my first match i lost, my list had a MC-75, Neb-b, and a scout hammerhead

and my 75 had double arc attacks for 2 turns and a single arc for 1 turn bc my neb was a door stop for my opponent’s victory for the whole game(traded bumps for 3 turns) and the neb shot every turn but his victory spamming engineering still survived while he killed my neb on turn 5.

Mc-75’s damage let me down in my first match which is why I was thinking of going for squadrons as my 3 variations show.

One of the keys for RITR is:

You win just by scoring more points than the opponent. You don't have to think about the tournament score at the end of the whole tournament, and while getting extra commander experience is nice, I find you tend to get enough xp by mid-campaign to be exactly where you want to be with commander abilities.

So how can you win?

1. Pick off the opponent's support. You can take this any of a number of directions. An H9 shot that drops a flotilla or other small ship. Priming yourself to win the squad game and jump out of there. Making sure your ships are sturdy enough that they stay on the table.

2. Win on objective points. Since Green objectives are used to get uniques, thinking about how your list will play one or more of these objectives, particularly from first, but also how at least one of your lists might defend them as second, is pretty critical. Secondly, since many locations substitute objectives, you can look at objectives that are actually going to give you an advantage as first player, or will at least side-step the opponent's very painful objectives. You have much more of an opportunity to do this when declaring two assaults than otherwise.

The trouble with some of the traditional approaches at 400 points is that you may not have the time or the damage output to accomplish a particular goal first, as you found out in trying to take down that engineering victory with your two ships. As a list gains potency, it starts to gain the ability to bring down an opponent's large more easily.

3 hours ago, Vergilius said:

One of the keys for RITR is:

You win just by scoring more points than the opponent. You don't have to think about the tournament score at the end of the whole tournament, and while getting extra commander experience is nice, I find you tend to get enough xp by mid-campaign to be exactly where you want to be with commander abilities.

So how can you win?

1. Pick off the opponent's support. You can take this any of a number of directions. An H9 shot that drops a flotilla or other small ship. Priming yourself to win the squad game and jump out of there. Making sure your ships are sturdy enough that they stay on the table.

2. Win on objective points. Since Green objectives are used to get uniques, thinking about how your list will play one or more of these objectives, particularly from first, but also how at least one of your lists might defend them as second, is pretty critical. Secondly, since many locations substitute objectives, you can look at objectives that are actually going to give you an advantage as first player, or will at least side-step the opponent's very painful objectives. You have much more of an opportunity to do this when declaring two assaults than otherwise.

The trouble with some of the traditional approaches at 400 points is that you may not have the time or the damage output to accomplish a particular goal first, as you found out in trying to take down that engineering victory with your two ships. As a list gains potency, it starts to gain the ability to bring down an opponent's large more easily.

So in that match with the Victory/onager, it was one of the unique missions and my opponent was defender.

My 75 started in center of map at speed 3 but he got a VP by doing an engineering action on the victory point thus I was losing before even reaching the objective.

Would i have been better served by just flying off the board and taking the loss?

25 minutes ago, DakkaDakka12 said:

So in that match with the Victory/onager, it was one of the unique missions and my opponent was defender.

My 75 started in center of map at speed 3 but he got a VP by doing an engineering action on the victory point thus I was losing before even reaching the objective.

Would i have been better served by just flying off the board and taking the loss?

Well... which unique objective was it? I don’t know if we have enough info to give you any definitive answers, but it’s almost never a good idea to just “take a loss.”

Destroyed units get scarred, but you can in-scar one unit per fleet for each base your team owns. In the early game, you may not have more than three or four units, so the unscarring process is sort of trivial... in other words, if you start with two ace squadrons and two ships, and you fight hard and lose everything, you’re still able to unscar all but one unit (assuming you’re doing a 3 fleet on 3 fleet standard campaign). And sometimes having one scarred unit isn’t a big deal; I’ve personally found myself leaving one scarred A-Wing throughout my campaign, as it’s fairly trivial to jump him onto the station early on and heal him up. On the Imperial side, there’s one guy who’s had a scarred ISD-I since the first round, and he just leaves it; the lack of a Contain token on it really hasn’t hurt him much at all.

Anyway the point is, FIGHT! Fight hard. But fight intelligently. Pick your battles. Understand that certain upgrade types are at a premium. Count on your dice being substandard, and equip upgrades like Leading Shots and Ordnance Experts early. Survivability is important too; Electronic Countermeasures and other defensive upgrades are good.

Most of all: as Vergilius was saying, try and find an opportunity to score just enough points to win, and then get clear! If you don’t think you can run down his Onager and kill it, bait your opponent into launching his fighters, kill a couple, and run for the hills. You just have to win by one point to win the battle. And if you’re in a really bad matchup, be bold. Take chances. Look for possible weaknesses and exploit them. Sometimes you’re going to fail spectacularly, and sometimes things will fall your way. In my first game, I faced an ISD-I and an Arquitens, and I saw that my opponent had absolutely no dice control on his Destroyer. So I took a chance and sailed my AFMkIIB right up his nose, and partially because he rolled crap (and couldn’t fix it), partially because I had Linked Turbolaser Towers, and partially because I had Dutch and Wedge bombing like mad, I wrecked the ISD. On paper, I was done for, but luck has a significant role to play in RitR, especially early, when ships can’t have all the upgrades they need to be decent in Standard lists.

9 hours ago, DakkaDakka12 said:

Ok I guess something like this is a better direction? I keep worrying about black dice ships if I am 2nd player.

Name: Test
Faction: Rebel
Commander:

Assault:
Defense:
Navigation:

MC75 Ordnance Cruiser (100)
• Electronic Countermeasures (7)
= 107 Points

MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63)
• Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)
= 68 Points

GR-75 Medium Transports (18)
• Slicer Tools (7)
= 25 Points

Squadrons:
= 0 Points

Total Points: 200

my first match i lost, my list had a MC-75, Neb-b, and a scout hammerhead

and my 75 had double arc attacks for 2 turns and a single arc for 1 turn bc my neb was a door stop for my opponent’s victory for the whole game(traded bumps for 3 turns) and the neb shot every turn but his victory spamming engineering still survived while he killed my neb on turn 5.

Mc-75’s damage let me down in my first match which is why I was thinking of going for squadrons as my 3 variations show.

I’m surprised your Neb-B lasted so long in the face of a VSD. Was it a VSD-I, or a VSD-II?

As for squadrons, I said it before, and I will say it again: squadrons are ridiculously powerful in RitR. They’re the one practically unlimited resource fleets have access to, and the story of my group’s campaign has hinged strongly on who’s been able to best leverage squadron power. Currently, the only undefeated list in our campaign is one guy who started with a GSD, a Gozanti flotilla, and a TON of Rogue squadrons... Boba Fett, Bossk, and Firespray-31s. He’s since upgraded to Demolisher and added a couple TIE Interceptors, and it’s a tough, tough fleet to fight.

My list has also done well. It’s an AFMkIIB, a CR90A with TRCs, a GR75MT, Dutch, Wedge, Lando in the Falcon, an E-Wing, an X-Wing, and an A-Wing (the starting list was Wedge, Dutch, and the three ships). I was the first guy maxed on points, and I spent almost all of my available upgrades on squadrons. Lando is insane. Dutch has been a baller. Wedge has had some really... disappointing rolls against squadrons, but he’s almost always good for some bombing damage, at least. Squadrons are amazing in RitR, and if you don’t start with two amazing aces, you *may* be doing it wrong.

45 minutes ago, DakkaDakka12 said:

So in that match with the Victory/onager, it was one of the unique missions and my opponent was defender.

My 75 started in center of map at speed 3 but he got a VP by doing an engineering action on the victory point thus I was losing before even reaching the objective.

Would i have been better served by just flying off the board and taking the loss?

I'm not sure what you mean by the question. It sounds like your opponent had a pretty good list for playing that objective, and perhaps it would have been adviseable to pick a different object or assault somewhere else. The campaign adds a whole new dimension to how one plays the game.

In a standard game, you've simply got your fleet and skill level versus the opponent's fleet and skill level. in the campaign, you can have up to three players on a side. Those players will have varying amounts of skill levels, and they'll match up with the opponents differently. Then there's one kind of advantage to being the defender in the campaign, but a different kind of advantage to being the one that can pick exactly when and where the assaults occur, and what objectives get picked. Add to that another layer of what upgrades each fleet needs, what upgrades the opponents need, where you can easily get on the map based on your bases and any diplomat tokens in effect. That's an awful lot of background to weave together every round of play. Finally, our experience has been that the effects of losing are not that fatal. In our first campaign, we went 1-2, then 1-2, before going 2-1, winning the pivotal, putting up another 2-1, and then a 3-0. That was a huge learning experience for everyone, and we've had another 1-2, 1-2, 2-1 set-up going into the next pivotal. However, all of the games and contests have felt much closer and much more chess-like.

I hope this helps some, but some of our list-building strategy was built around the following:

1. How many green objectives does this list need to reach its intended peak? How many of those MUST be wins?

2. How many overall battles does this list need to be at its intended peak? What is the ratio of wins/losses?

3. How can we build flexibly? Can some upgrades be "nice" but not necessary? Can we leave room to adjust to the opponent's fleets.

I ran an MC75 in the first campaign. I had MC75, CR90, Comms net flotilla, and Tycho/Shara. I had wanted an MC30 but found myself too point-strapped to get it. This ended up working out better because it had good balance. Tycho/Shara take some very specific play and builds out of the Imperials to counter them, and when you are at 60-80 points, they are tough to bring down and still have effective fighting forces left over. Without Sloan or the points for making MMJ sing, it is tough to get the anti-ship push that make those squad load-outs work. The MC75/CR90 combined well against an enemy large, but I only had to fight one after I got the upgrades that my list wanted. Finally, the MC75 was good against small ships. So in short, there was a little bit for every list type out there.

Your opponents with the Onager/Vic put their eggs all in one basket. It will be a tough list in a lot of circumstances, but they won't always be able to match it against its ideal opponents. You might have to take some losses early on in order to build up to the point where you can take it later. I would think a squadron heavy list could ding it for the points it needs to win. I like that Onager/Vic list, for although it does have its eggs all in the same basket, it aims to do a couple of things really well and brings a lot of anti-ship firepower down range.

Ok the mission felt un-winable it was Holonet override

Opponent had Onager star destroyer and a VSD-2

since my opponent places all obstacles and the station in this mission he placed the station as very close to the side edge and as close as possible from his deployment.

He also placed all the rest of the terrain in a line kinda like a wall a little closer to my side.

I placed my MC-75 first in the dead center at speed 3 so I can react to his deployment.

once he placed his onager in the corner opposite from the obj at speed 0, I decided I would throw everything at the victory so I setup my scout hammerhead hugging the left field and my neb between the 75 and hammerhead.

as the match started I zoomed the 75 straight forward and my opponent thought i was going to swing it toward the onager so he stayed speed 0 while his VSD moved forward and traveled toward OBJ

now here is where the obj felt unfair for every 2 engineering pts you spend you can place(OR REMOVE) 1 obj token so basically every turn he creates and instantly gets 1 obj token making me behind of points before a single shot has been fired.

Bc his list is just 2 beefy ships i cant scrape some points and run so I have the 75 flank the side of the victory and placed it perfectly in a collision course with a double arc, while my neb got in front of it and he has endless engineering so he cannot turn enough.

his onager shots on my neb had my 75 and his vsd in the way so they generally did nothing bc of the neb’s evade at beyond long range with obstructed.

And i mirrored my opponent and had the neb spam engineering which he slowly won but it took 3 turns for him to kill(lucky 1 hp for the 3rd turn and neb engineer can heal a hull leaving 1 hp after bump)

sadly my 3 ships couldn’t kill him bc his victory was perfectly on the station so my 75 shots were obstructed and my neb was obstructed, i was a little fearful of getting the hammerhead killed so he only got 2 attacks and 1 was obstructed by asteroids

after the neb died and he wasn’t blocked anymore I realized I couldn’t turn the 75 fast enough to catch him on the last turn so I called GG.

sorry for the long winded story but I couldn’t see how I could have won maybe if I ignored the obj and threw everything at the onager? I was kinda scared of my hammerhead getting cooked by the superweapon or salvoed to death.

2 hours ago, DakkaDakka12 said:

...s adly my 3 ships couldn’t kill him bc his victory was perfectly on the station so my 75 shots were obstructed and my neb was obstructed, i was a little fearful of getting the hammerhead killed so he only got 2 attacks and 1 was obstructed by asteroids

after the neb died and he wasn’t blocked anymore I realized I couldn’t turn the 75 fast enough to catch him on the last turn so I called GG.

sorry for the long winded story but I couldn’t see how I could have won maybe if I ignored the obj and threw everything at the onager? I was kinda scared of my hammerhead getting cooked by the superweapon or salvoed to death.

I’m not particularly familiar with Holonet Override, but it sounds like your opponent had a good plan, flew well, and got lucky to boot.

Yes, you could have tried going hard for the Onager. Might have worked, might have been a disaster. Sounds like you weren’t rolling the hottest dice, anyway; even considering obstruction and repair spam, it’s hard to believe a VSD stood up to your combined force for so many turns. Maybe blocking him from moving off the station was a bad idea. After all, if he attempts a maneuver, bumps your Frigate, and gets pushed back onto the station, the end result is that both ships take a damage card, then he heals his, because he ends his maneuver on the station. If he was also taking advantage of obstruction... y’gotta hand it to him, that’s just really smart flying.

Sometimes you just get beat.

We took our first campaign as "lessons learned." There should be a lot of those because none of us are as familiar with the 200 point format or objectives as we are for everything else. Then there are the ways that Destiny tokens, Spynet tokens, condition cards, and commander abilities all interact with the 200 point fleets and their limited but slowly increasing upgrades. So one of the lessons here is that you generally don't want to play Holonet override against a high engineering list unless you've got a plan to overcome the fact that they are going to pick up at least a few points from the objective. Some of these objectives are great because they pin the opponent to a key area of the map, even if you give up points. There is a path forward with most objectives.

4 hours ago, Vergilius said:

We took our first campaign as "lessons learned." There should be a lot of those because none of us are as familiar with the 200 point format or objectives as we are for everything else. Then there are the ways that Destiny tokens, Spynet tokens, condition cards, and commander abilities all interact with the 200 point fleets and their limited but slowly increasing upgrades. So one of the lessons here is that you generally don't want to play Holonet override against a high engineering list unless you've got a plan to overcome the fact that they are going to pick up at least a few points from the objective. Some of these objectives are great because they pin the opponent to a key area of the map, even if you give up points. There is a path forward with most objectives.

The attacker does not pick objective if I understood correctly.

I would have picked an objective beneficial to multiple activation if I had the option bc my opponent was going to keep his onager far away bc he just got it and keeps saying it’s flimsy.

14 minutes ago, DakkaDakka12 said:

The attacker does not pick objective if I understood correctly.

I would have picked an objective beneficial to multiple activation if I had the option bc my opponent was going to keep his onager far away bc he just got it and keeps saying it’s flimsy.

First player, the one who declared the assault picks the objective.

1 hour ago, DakkaDakka12 said:

The attacker does not pick objective if I understood correctly.

I would have picked an objective beneficial to multiple activation if I had the option bc my opponent was going to keep his onager far away bc he just got it and keeps saying it’s flimsy.

First player ALWAYS picks from player two’s objectives. In RitR, the attacking team is always first player, defender is second.

Are you saying you let your opponent have first player AND gave him his pick of objectives... from a list that he assembled? No wonder you’re on the struggle bus, man!

On 2/29/2020 at 3:27 PM, Cpt ObVus said:

First player ALWAYS picks from player two’s objectives. In RitR, the attacking team is always first player, defender is second.

Are you saying you let your opponent have first player AND gave him his pick of objectives... from a list that he assembled? No wonder you’re on the struggle bus, man!

I decided to attack lothal bc I wanted the resources there and he picked the map specific objective holonet.

During game I went first.

did we make a mistake?

Yep. The way it’s supposed to work is: you declare the attack. He takes his pool of three objectives (red, blue, yellow), and if the map specified any replacements for those, he replaces the corresponding colored objective with the one from the map. Then he adds any green map specific objective(s), and gives you that pool to pick from (first player always picks from the second player’s objective pool, and in RitR, the attacker is always first player).

For a concrete example, let’s say you declare an assault at Montross. I choose a fleet to defend; that fleet has three objectives in its regular pool (let’s say it’s Doomed Station, Contested Outpost, and Most Wanted). Montross makes me replace Doomed Station with Minefields, and Most Wanted with Precision Strike, and I then add Pilot Defection... So the final pool (which YOU pick from) is Pilot Defection, Contested Outpost, Minefields, and Precision Strike.