1 minute ago, lunitic501 said:Thats totally fine with those factions the problem with the CIS is ai and the fact that u want all if not most of your units to have a face up order, and u cant do that running 6 b2s since they dont have coordinate
Trust me, there's plenty of problems playing Empire without DLT's...
Just now, TauntaunScout said:Trust me, there's plenty of problems playing Empire without DLT's...
Apples and Oranges. Droids without orders are not the same as some unit without a heavy weapon. Without orders, AI really impacts how they have to be played.
12 minutes ago, Mokoshkana said:Apples and Oranges. Droids without orders are not the same as some unit without a heavy weapon. Without orders, AI really impacts how they have to be played.
You're missing the point. It's not about how the unit plays, rather aesthetics and theme are the driving force behind using all B2s or all Snowtroopers.
15 minutes ago, Mokoshkana said:Apples and Oranges. Droids without orders are not the same as some unit without a heavy weapon. Without orders, AI really impacts how they have to be played.
True. You just cannot run them like a "usual" droid army.
I played against a Grievous/3B2/3Deka list this past weekend. I think it was rounded out by 1 B1 squad with sniper. The player has a lot of experience running Imperial lists. The AI did not really impact his ability to effectively play the team.
Edited by FSD35 minutes ago, TauntaunScout said:Plus it gets to a point where, these little plastic guys cost so much I'd rather spend the fun money on real swords and guns. For me it's about value, not price. When a squad of minis gets too expensive, it becomes a poor value by comparison to the other hobbies that compete for my expendable income. At the end of the day, it's still just a plastic toy, no matter how detailed.
Honestly there's still a ton of Legion stuff that I was SUPER excited about when it dropped, but, with these Brave New Prices, I just haven't bothered to buy.
A fellow enthusiast? Nice! We have more in common than just the miniatures hobby.
I’m not so far all the way in that I’d want to buy 6x of a new corps units, but I too have been impacted by the price change. From 1-2 to 0-1 for P2s. The ARCs are just more exciting for me that I’m willing to spring the $35 for one or two of those. I didn’t buy droids (split two core sets and kept the republic half).
I definitely won’t be buying as much anymore. I much preferred the soft plastic models, especially because of the price. Luckily I only collect the Rebs and imps but I won’t be buying every expansion anymore. They’ll lose some customers over this price increase when you add this on top of all of the other issues like delays.
4 hours ago, Caimheul1313 said:Let's compare the price per model to other copyright protected IP miniature games (historicals are a separate matter, and tend to be significantly cheaper per model since anyone can produce a viking). This isn't a great comparison in my opinion since the cost per ARMY is what really matters.
All at rounded USD MSRP, and only looking at a single box of infantry and named hero prices:
Old Legion soft plastic 7 models in a box: $3.57. Heroes $13
New Legion hard plastic 7 models in a box: $5. Heroes $15
A Song of Ice and Fire: the infantry boxes have between 12 and 13 preconstructed pvc plastic models in 3-4 poses $2.92. Heroes are also in multi-model boxes $4.28
Games Workshop: depends on the army and material basing off a quick browse of online store $3.50-12 Heroes $15-140
Warmachine/hordes: similar to 40k on variance, using same method as 40K $6-16 Heroes: $8-65
Infinity: quick look shows me anywhere from $4-10 I think? I'm not as familiar so harder for me to tell. All metal monopose miniatures.
Fallout: resin monopose $7+ Heroes: $11+
Marvel: Heroes: $17.50-35 monopose, multipart hard plastic.
So, does the new price stink after getting used to the old? Sure, no argument there.
But if you want to buy Star Wars infantry miniatures, it's the only option. If you want to play a cheap miniatures game, there are lots of good historical rule sets, and if you don't like one American War of Independence/WW2/viking ruleset, your miniatures work equally well in another ruleset.
Luckily, toy soldiers are a luxury item, not a necessity. It's part of the perils of any hobby that prices fluctuate. At least this price change came with a change in material. I remember when GW switched Imperial Guard from 20 models a box to 10 models a box, at 2/3rds the original price. And the current prices seem higher than when I was buying 40k minis regularly 5+ years ago.
I don’t play those other games, so those prices mean nothing to me. $6 for a little plastic dude is still expensive. Because someone else charges even more doesn’t make that price any better.
7 minutes ago, ninclouse2000 said:I definitely won’t be buying as much anymore. I much preferred the soft plastic models, especially because of the price. Luckily I only collect the Rebs and imps but I won’t be buying every expansion anymore. They’ll lose some customers over this price increase when you add this on top of all of the other issues like delays.
The softer plastic is actually bette for more detailed and organic minis. Hard plastic is fine for droids, but something like rebels, or character models it’s not ideal.
8 minutes ago, ninclouse2000 said:I definitely won’t be buying as much anymore. I much preferred the soft plastic models, especially because of the price. Luckily I only collect the Rebs and imps but I won’t be buying every expansion anymore. They’ll lose some customers over this price increase when you add this on top of all of the other issues like delays.
Even though I do like how detailed the hard plastic is now I think the recent upgrade expansions (non-droid) were the perfect balance between soft plastic and detail.
I got the Phase II Clones and they look good but it was difficult to think about $35 for just 2 small sprues. I love the game and the hobby but I've started to be more selective about what I buy between the price increase and the new return policy
You guys do know that just because one product is stupidly over priced doesn't mean another product that isn't quite as stupidly over priced is a great value. There are many things out there that cost $45 that is so much more than few pieces of molded plastic. Still, the price is what it is. Either pay it, or don't. If enough people don't pay that price, they will either lower prices or cancel the game completely. The current track record would suggest they would rather shut the game down than adjust prices but since they sold through pretty well on those stormtrooper upgrades, pretty sure this game isn't in any danger.
3 hours ago, RStan said:I'm just moderately baffled you plan on investing in 6 B2 squads...
2 hours ago, lunitic501 said:Thats totally fine with those factions the problem with the CIS is ai and the fact that u want all if not most of your units to have a face up order, and u cant do that running 6 b2s since they dont have coordinate
2 hours ago, Mokoshkana said:Apples and Oranges. Droids without orders are not the same as some unit without a heavy weapon. Without orders, AI really impacts how they have to be played.
Unfortunately you don't seem to understand that my version of fun really has nothing to do with efficiency. My version of fun is putting down an army of B2's and trying to make them work because it looks **** cool.
Well, the next rebel and empire units are hard plastic so I think we'll just have to deal with it from now on. I'm still going to support 3 of the 4 factions. which is kinda crazy but I like the game and I only have friends to play with in my area so if I'm gonna play then I have to have the units.
1 hour ago, NeverTellMeTheOdds said:I don’t play those other games, so those prices mean nothing to me. $6 for a little plastic dude is still expensive. Because someone else charges even more doesn’t make that price any better.
It's a little plastic dude that you don't need to survive. If the price is too high, don't buy it, buy the product more gradually as you can afford it, or skip some other non-essential expense like a video game or something. I don't know your budget, you should make the financial choices that make sense for you. I don't mean this in a judgemental way, I really do mean do what's best for you.
The point of the post that I apparently failed to communicate was that the prices are still on the low end for this sort of product. Is it as good of a price as it used to be? No, but complaining on a barely monitored forum isn't going to do anything, else the customer service policy would have changed back, or distribution would have improved.
Price increases are part of the wargaming hobby, partially due to inflation, change in product material, and/or just charging what the market will bear. It always sucks, but the only thing the company will really "hear" is a drop in sales.
Edited by Caimheul1313
54 minutes ago, Mep said:You guys do know that just because one product is stupidly over priced doesn't mean another product that isn't quite as stupidly over priced is a great value.
The point was more to get some amount of baseline for the market of nonhistorical wargames miniatures. I was not trying to imply anything about quality of value, just that the entire market generally has similar or "worse" pricing. Short of only supporting miniature manufacturers with better pricing, or finding another hobby entirely, we're going to be asked to pay whatever the market will bear and allow for the store, distributor, manufacturer, and license holder to all make as much profit as they can after paying their workers and other expenses.
Edited by Caimheul131319 minutes ago, Icelom said:Unfortunately you don't seem to understand that my version of fun really has nothing to do with efficiency. My version of fun is putting down an army of B2's and trying to make them work because it looks **** cool.
Well then best of luck to you, and don't let a price increase ruin your fun!
3 hours ago, Mokoshkana said:Apples and Oranges. Droids without orders are not the same as some unit without a heavy weapon. Without orders, AI really impacts how they have to be played.
K. How about no heroes for either side except officers and Veers, and always taking an AT-ST or snowspeeder?
The prices for IP minis have gone up, up, up since I started. This is not because of materials cost or quality. The cost of unlicensed miniatures has gone down since I started, while quality has increased above what IP minis used to have.
This rise in IP based minis prices is about what they think people are willing to pay in order to maintain their identity and status within a constructed community.
2 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:A fellow enthusiast? Nice! We have more in common than just the miniatures hobby.
Yes I am a reenactor. At a certain point, the cost of functional replicas of assorted muskets and things provides a certain "reality check" when compared to a bunch of plastic figures.
Course I'm also a vintage and antique toy collector so I have spent absurd amounts on the occasional plastic figure... It's still usually less than the big game companies charge after the "power creep tax" though!
Again, it's about value, not price, with me. I turn my nose up at $50 for a paltry box of 5 genestealers but gladly pay $165 for Deathwatch: Overkill with 50 miniatures in it. I actually bought 3 copies of that game. I am very lucky in that, as a 30-something, I can afford anything I want vis a vis hobbies. But I won't spend it on stuff I feel is a poor value.
21 minutes ago, TauntaunScout said:K. How about no heroes for either side except officers and Veers, and always taking an AT-ST or snowspeeder?
What? This doesn't even make sense.
1 minute ago, Mokoshkana said:What? This doesn't even make sense.
Well it's what I take for my 800 point games. Once in awhile I leave out the heavies so I can take more of stuff I haven't played with in awhile. But that's rare.
7 minutes ago, Mokoshkana said:What? This doesn't even make sense.
Its self imposed restrictions for thematic play, like how some people insist/prefer in only Rebel vs Empire or CIS vs GAR in their games
5 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:Its self imposed restrictions for thematic play, like how some people insist/prefer in only Rebel vs Empire or CIS vs GAR in their games
Thematic play is its own thing. Stating that up front ends the argument. Alluding to that and expecting others to inherently grasp it just leads to confusion.
2 minutes ago, Mokoshkana said:Thematic play is its own thing. Stating that up front ends the argument. Alluding to that and expecting others to inherently grasp it just leads to confusion.il
It's not always completely separate. Some people take "thematic" or "fluffy" lists to competitions. They are more concerned with fielding units they like rather than what is most likely to win according to "mathhammer" or netlisting.
Just now, Caimheul1313 said:It's not always completely separate. Some people take "thematic" or "fluffy" lists to competitions. They are more concerned with fielding units they like rather than what is most likely to win according to "mathhammer" or netlisting.
Okay, let me clarify as the intent was not clearly stated. Thematic play is its own thing on an individual level. If someone says "I'm taking XYZ because I want to go for a theme," then more power to them. Stating that up front prevents any misconceived notions about that players intent. At such a point, I might be able to provide different feedback with respect to the thematic intent as opposed to a lists viability with respect to winning.
if you don't like the price change there is always tiddlywinks...... when i see discussions above go around in a hobby i always want to respond with a quote from BSG ..something about ....."blah blah blah And all of this has happened before, and will happen again."
happen when we went from "lead minis" to "lead free"
happened when GW went to plastics (and everytime they do a points change)
happened in WM..
seen this happen in paintball (twice actually)
happened in the UAV community (but something crazy is going on now)
ect and so forths...
....
its gonna happen, you must sacrifice for what you want.... i don't see why waste all the effort to squabble about it....show how you feel with how you spend your hard earned $... i buy two of everything... i love this game, love the minis and "sorta" love the community.... i detest the effort spent squabbling about (**** < - dirty words? )you can't change....
im just happy im alive ina time where theres so much Star Wars content......i mean....what if...what if we had no SW??? (i'd probably play tiddlywinks)
Edited by magnumhan40 minutes ago, Mokoshkana said:Okay, let me clarify as the intent was not clearly stated. Thematic play is its own thing on an individual level. If someone says "I'm taking XYZ because I want to go for a theme," then more power to them. Stating that up front prevents any misconceived notions about that players intent. At such a point, I might be able to provide different feedback with respect to the thematic intent as opposed to a lists viability with respect to winning.
Well it’s not up to them to explain why they want 6 battle droids for people with different motivations. “Why” is irrelevant to the discussion of monetary pros and cons.