I just want to thank everyone who replied! This was really educational. I think I still like MC30, because of stupid bias, but I definitely plan on getting some *** frigates!

7 hours ago, Ponera said:

I just want to thank everyone who replied! This was really educational. I think I still like MC30, because of stupid bias, but I definitely plan on getting some *** frigates!

There’s nothing stupid about liking MC30s! That thing spits out more damage than most large base ships, and it’s fast as fast gets. It’s just that the AF definitely has a role to play as well.

On 2/26/2020 at 12:43 PM, LTD said:

My current list has five. My VWC list had four.

Thanks to the beating that list gave me I’ve been learning to fly six. 🙂

23 hours ago, The Jabbawookie said:

Thanks to the beating that list gave me I’ve been learning to fly six. 🙂

I’ve made a list with six - yet to see a table.

As someone who’s has played since wave one, a question always has to be ( in my mind) why not an assault frigate ?

But I have to say a mix of mc30s and assault frigates work well together in Ackbar lists as they cover each other’s major weakness. We all know the key weakness of an assault frigate conga is something fast and nasty getting in front of it ( yes gladiators we are looking at you) an mc 30 can cover that. The key weakness of mc30s is a lack of staying power, where as assault frigates can be built to keep ticking.

I have always played with cr90s as light flankers in Ackbar lists but I’m not sure how effective they now are with imps having ultra long range attacks, will have to see how that plays out.

6 hours ago, player3691565 said:

... I have always played with cr90s as light flankers in Ackbar lists but I’m not sure how effective they now are with imps having ultra long range attacks, will have to see how that plays out.

I still like the idea of a CR90 flanker or two in some Ackbar lists; after all, if you get your opponent to spin Rakehell around to go after Jaina’s Light, he probably won’t ever get it spun back around to deal with the other threats you send after it... and if he ignores Jaina’s Light, she gets to smash at that weak rear shield for a few turns.

One of the best things you can do to an Onager list is bring lots of ships and NOT GROUP UP. Make sure that he gets to pick just one, and make him pay for it by killing the 140-170 point monster.

The other best thing you can do is bring Foresight and laugh off all of his silly extreme range dice.

I have always loved foresight in Ackbar lists, any long range red hurling mc30 should be foresight.

4 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

I still like the idea of a CR90 flanker or two in some Ackbar lists; after all, if you get your opponent to spin Rakehell around to go after Jaina’s Light, he probably won’t ever get it spun back around to deal with the other threats you send after it... and if he ignores Jaina’s Light, she gets to smash at that weak rear shield for a few turns.

One of the best things you can do to an Onager list is bring lots of ships and NOT GROUP UP. Make sure that he gets to pick just one, and make him pay for it by killing the 140-170 point monster.

The other best thing you can do is bring Foresight and laugh off all of his silly extreme range dice.

My experience with the Onager so far has taught me that shooting at ships with evades at extreme range is fairly pointless unless you can be reasonably sure of guaranteeing two accuracies. The single evade on ships like the assault frigate is manageable. That salvo token is also a good deterrent for sneaky small bases plinking away at shields.

On 2/26/2020 at 4:51 AM, Cpt ObVus said:

Another fun little build is the MC30 Torpedo Frigate with Enhanced Armaments. EA adds a red die to your side battery armament, which actually allows you to shoot at long range, which you otherwise could not have done. Then, of course, you Ackbar & ConFire, and you’re throwing 4 reds at long range for a base 73 points (76 with External Racks). Once you get up close, it’s 11 dice (after Ackbar, Enhanced Armament, ExRax, & ConFire). Caitken & Shollan, Ordnance Experts, Foresight, Admonition, Advanced Projectors, Lando, Intel Officer, whatever to taste, or just leave it lean & dangerous.

Someone said it above, and they’re absolutely right; you want at least three real warships in an Ackbar fleet. You’re paying 38 points for him. Using two ships and getting 4 extra reds each turn seems like you could do better. But using four ships, and getting an extra 8 reds each turn? Now we’re talking! So there’s a desire to keep from over-upgrading your Ackbar ships. Run them lean, if you can. This is toughest with MC30s & MC80s, but I have no problem throwing only TRCs on a CR90, or just ECMs & LTTs on an AFMkIIB, and kicking it out the door.

@sasska Look what we have here

I love both ships with Ackbar. I recently run 2x mc30 and an AFII plus a few squads.

AFII: ECM, C&S, Intel Officer, Slaved Turrets. If you play her right she is a MONSTER. Stay at long range and stay preferably at one ships arc always and you wont have issues with survivability. And oh boy she has TREMENDOUS firepower. 6-7 rerollable Red dice at long range for an average of 6-7 damage plus Intel Officer. Quickly cracks everything up for good. Really adds up with the '30-ies. Speed 3 is nice as well, have navs often and you wont get blown up.

Mc30: TRC, title, Exracks, Shield Tech Expert. No weapons team, I don't think it's necessary. TRC is exhaust, so gunnery team wouldn't be cost efficient, OE is nice and all, but I don't like flying the scout mc30 into close range, it gets blown up super quickly, and if you want to last first, you will need to build a lot of things that way and I am not sure if it's worth it. With this setup they are fairly tanky, redirects are far better this way, especially against squadrons. They have a nice move pattern with excellent speed, and they shine when it comes to firepower as well. 4-5 red dice with a fixed double, it's around 4.25 - 5 which is not bad and hard not to brace it. The happy case is that the AFII already zapped away brace, in which scenario packets of 4-6 dmg kill quickly.

Overall as said above they cover each others back, and they shine together if you play them right. Not a tabling list, but easy to save points in return. And Imo very flexible, you can use them for several approach.

16 hours ago, sasska said:

I love both ships with Ackbar. I recently run 2x mc30 and an AFII plus a few squads.

AFII: ECM, C&S, Intel Officer, Slaved Turrets. If you play her right she is a MONSTER. Stay at long range and stay preferably at one ships arc always and you wont have issues with survivability. And oh boy she has TREMENDOUS firepower. 6-7 rerollable Red dice at long range for an average of 6-7 damage plus Intel Officer. Quickly cracks everything up for good. Really adds up with the '30-ies. Speed 3 is nice as well, have navs often and you wont get blown up.

Mc30: TRC, title, Exracks, Shield Tech Expert. No weapons team, I don't think it's necessary. TRC is exhaust, so gunnery team wouldn't be cost efficient, OE is nice and all, but I don't like flying the scout mc30 into close range, it gets blown up super quickly, and if you want to last first, you will need to build a lot of things that way and I am not sure if it's worth it. With this setup they are fairly tanky, redirects are far better this way, especially against squadrons. They have a nice move pattern with excellent speed, and they shine when it comes to firepower as well. 4-5 red dice with a fixed double, it's around 4.25 - 5 which is not bad and hard not to brace it. The happy case is that the AFII already zapped away brace, in which scenario packets of 4-6 dmg kill quickly.

Overall as said above they cover each others back, and they shine together if you play them right. Not a tabling list, but easy to save points in return. And Imo very flexible, you can use them for several approach.

I’m with you on most of this, but you GOTTA put Ordnance Experts on your MC30. The best way of ensuring they don’t die when they get close to the enemy is to make sure the enemy dies instead. There’s no greater disappointment than spending 2-3 rounds softening up an ISD at range, then moving in for the kill and blanking out on your black dice. Besides, I dunno how you’re flying your MC30s, but as long as you don’t jump into the front arc of a Boarding Teams Avenger or an SSD, it really shouldn’t be dying very easily. Admonition, Advanced Projectors, Lando... the little thing can’t last forever, but it should be easy to shrug off one or two attacks before you’re in trouble.

6 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

I’m with you on most of this, but you GOTTA put Ordnance Experts on your MC30. The best way of ensuring they don’t die when they get close to the enemy is to make sure the enemy dies instead. There’s no greater disappointment than spending 2-3 rounds softening up an ISD at range, then moving in for the kill and blanking out on your black dice. Besides, I dunno how you’re flying your MC30s, but as long as you don’t jump into the front arc of a Boarding Teams Avenger or an SSD, it really shouldn’t be dying very easily. Admonition, Advanced Projectors, Lando... the little thing can’t last forever, but it should be easy to shrug off one or two attacks before you’re in trouble.

I dont fly them close, as there is no need to, in my opinion. Sure it takes more shots to kill an ISD (+1-2 shots at long range), but do die quickly at close range. They dont get one-shotted usually, but rear/side shots with gozntis at support adds up quickly. In this scenario, I use black dice to frighten away enemies. The only exception so far is the SSD, since it has so much hp. Against one, I usually try to sail admo to close and then pull of an Ackbar double arc. In my list i have 4 activations, which is not sufficient for effective use of the ordnance. And also i dont have points for OE in this particular list.

44 minutes ago, sasska said:

I dont fly them close, as there is no need to, in my opinion. Sure it takes more shots to kill an ISD (+1-2 shots at long range), but do die quickly at close range. They dont get one-shotted usually, but rear/side shots with gozntis at support adds up quickly. In this scenario, I use black dice to frighten away enemies. The only exception so far is the SSD, since it has so much hp. Against one, I usually try to sail admo to close and then pull of an Ackbar double arc. In my list i have 4 activations, which is not sufficient for effective use of the ordnance. And also i dont have points for OE in this particular list.

Am I hearing you correctly, that your MC30s are getting killed by Gozanti Cruisers??

Admonition and Foresight are two of the most potent defensive tools available. If your MC30s are dying to anything short of ISD front arcs, you may be missing a few things in the Spend Defense Tokens step... 😕

5 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Am I hearing you correctly, that your MC30s are getting killed by Gozanti Cruisers??

Admonition and Foresight are two of the most potent defensive tools available. If your MC30s are dying to anything short of ISD front arcs, you may be missing a few things in the Spend Defense Tokens step... 😕

Since mc30s dont have braces, damage sticks to them. Sure evades helps, titles help, but neither the titles nor the evades substitute a brace. This means when they got multiple attacks (I certainly dodge ISD fronts) - I am thinking of side/rear arcs of ISDs for example - they die sooner or later. This is just my experience over a couple of years that they CAN die if you sail them close. For a 100pts ship with consistent damage at long range I wont risk getting close range shots off, just to kill an ISD more quickly. (There are exceptions as always, of course)

And yes, con-firing, double arcing Gozantis, do pose a threat to wounded ships.

44 minutes ago, sasska said:

And yes, con-firing, double arcing Gozantis, do pose a threat to wounded ships.

Brought a couple assault refits with the new commander.... 1 red +1 red if the attack is obstructed +1 red from the confire....

Ever see a Gozzer smack something for 6 damage?

I have. lol

I do find that sticking damage on a well built mc30 scout is very difficult at long and medium range, small attacks just bounce off and you can make it almost immune to small cuts unless it’s in overwhelming numbers.

Foresight removes 2 dice twice without stressing your evades

Early warning removes one dice from every attack ( unless your surrounded, which as a flanker you should not be)

Expert shield techs remove 1 damage from 2 attacks at all ranges without stressing your shields.

on the offence side, there are a number of mix’s that work

1)The fish brothers work well if you go for enhanced armaments ( re-roll that handful of red dice, then switch to black reroll if you need to.

2) TLRs are always lovely with a red firing double evade ship, I pair these with Ord experts

1) can give the most spike damage at red range 2) can give you the most consistent damage at close range

i always give external racks to both as I find Ackbar mc30s are looking for that one big hit at close range and ex racks are cheap ways of getting that one off spike.

The Ackbar mc30 scout....up to 6 reroll reds at long range backed up by 5 black dice at close range with the ability to say no thank you to an attack of up to 4 dice at long range and do it twice before you burn a token....that’s a monster.