Not a lot of stuff here, against my expectations. Of note:

• Clarification of (defense) abilities. That one Caleb referred to during the Black Widow live stream, and I have to say I expected more than that here. Though it is now made clear when you can play these (defense) abilities (i.e. when you are the target of an attack), I've always wondered whether a card that requires you to defend included them or not. It doesn't seem so, nothing is said here. My understanding is therefore that when you _defend_, it specifically refers to exhausting your hero against an attack. It means then that for the purpose of other card triggers, defense abilities are not the same as defending . This will become especially important with those awesome Protection cards from Dr. Strange pack.
• Errata for Loki in the still unreleased Thor pack! 😂

Makes sense, the big point is that you can’t use Preemptive Strike unless you’re the target (Ie if someone else blocks for you, or an ally does, it doesn’t work)

So folks, help me out here real quick cause now I feel like I've been playing Counter-Punch wrong since release:

"Counter-Punch

Type: Event

Cost: 0

Attack.

Response(attack): After your hero defends against an enemy attack, deal damage to that enemy equal to your hero’s ATK.

Resources: 1 Phy"

Does the new RRG mean I do not have to exhaust my hero using its defense value, lowering the incoming damage, in order to play this card? I just have to be on the receiving end of an attack from an enemy?

The FAQ covering the Green Goblin boost flip back to Norman Osborn is very helpful. I've been playing that Green Goblin finished his attack before flipping to Norman Osborn. Unfortunately, this only means Risky Business just got easier!

44 minutes ago, HirumaShigure said:

The FAQ covering the Green Goblin boost flip back to Norman Osborn is very helpful. I've been playing that Green Goblin finished his attack before flipping to Norman Osborn. Unfortunately, this only means Risky Business just got easier!

On the other hand, if one interpreted it that the result was flipping to Norman Osborn and not dealing any attack damage, it got slightly harder.

6 hours ago, Derrault said:

Makes sense, the big point is that you can’t use Preemptive Strike unless you’re the target (Ie if someone else blocks for you, or an ally does, it doesn’t work)

Just to clarify - if a teammate's ally blocks then that player becomes the target. You can still play Preemptive Strike if you either defend, defend with an ally or it goes undefended

6 hours ago, HirumaShigure said:

So folks, help me out here real quick cause now I feel like I've been playing Counter-Punch wrong since release:

"Counter-Punch

Type: Event

Cost: 0

Attack.

Response(attack): After your hero defends against an enemy attack, deal damage to that enemy equal to your hero’s ATK.

Resources: 1 Phy"

Does the new RRG mean I do not have to exhaust my hero using its defense value, lowering the incoming damage, in order to play this card? I just have to be on the receiving end of an attack from an enemy?

No, you have to Defend. Defense cards require you to be the target, anything requiring you to Defend are explicitly tapping your hero to use their defense value.

edit: @jonboyjon1990 thanks, I totally skimmed past that bullet!

3 hours ago, jonboyjon1990 said:

Just to clarify - if a teammate's ally blocks then that player becomes the target. You can still play Preemptive Strike if you either defend, defend with an ally or it goes undefended

So conditions I can play preemptive strike?

•I’m taking an attack undefended

•I’m defending an attack against a player

•An Ally I control is defending an attack against a player

Is this correct?

34 minutes ago, Derrault said:

No, you have to Defend. Defense cards require you to be the target, anything requiring you to Defend are explicitly tapping your hero to use their defense value.

edit: @jonboyjon1990 thanks, I totally skimmed past that bullet!

Ok so to be clear, 'Defending' and being the 'target of the attack' are two separate things, but defending or defending with an ally can cause you to become the target of the attack (if you weren't initially)

16 minutes ago, KimJoshIl said:

So conditions I can play preemptive strike?

•I’m taking an attack undefended

•I’m defending an attack against a player

•An Ally I control is defending an attack against a player

Is this correct?

Think so, yes. You can't play it if you aren't the target of the attack.

And you only become the target of the attack by either: being the initial target, defending with your hero, defending with one of your allies

Just a little LOL from the RRG, when would you ever have a Hero Action: (defense)? Aren't all (defense) abilities basically required to be interrupts?

8 hours ago, HirumaShigure said:

So folks, help me out here real quick cause now I feel like I've been playing Counter-Punch wrong since release:

"Counter-Punch

Type: Event

Cost: 0

Attack.

Response(attack): After your hero defends against an enemy attack, deal damage to that enemy equal to your hero’s ATK.

Resources: 1 Phy"

Does the new RRG mean I do not have to exhaust my hero using its defense value, lowering the incoming damage, in order to play this card? I just have to be on the receiving end of an attack from an enemy?

No, because if the attack is undefended (by not exhausting to defend) you do not fulfill the the "after your hero defends against an enemy attack" part. Your hero is now being attacked, but your hero has not defended against an enemy attack.

Good to know I've been playing it right.

So... they didn't actually answer whether you can counter-punch off of Preemptive Strike? You can only play defense abilities if you're the target of an attack, but does that count as "defending"?

46 minutes ago, SpiderMana said:

So... they didn't actually answer whether you can counter-punch off of Preemptive Strike? You can only play defense abilities if you're the target of an attack, but does that count as "defending"?

I don’t think it does. I think defending strictly applies to exhausting a hero or ally to defend an attack.

If no hero or ally is used to defend the attack, then the attack is considered undefended.

So if you’re playing solo and take an attack undefended, you can play Preemptive strike but not counter punch... This feels weird, I’d think a preemptive strike would be defending but RAW It’s not.

Maybe I’m wrong? This actually feels really weird. If I take an attack as Captain America against Wrecker and use shield block, Wrecker still gets +2 Attack even though it’s being prevented? I think we need an update stating wether (defense) abilities count as defending. (Attack) abilities count as attacking. Sorry for any confusion.

4 hours ago, CaptainJaguarShark said:

Just a little LOL from the RRG, when would you ever have a Hero Action: (defense)? Aren't all (defense) abilities basically required to be interrupts?

Not necessarily. The qualifier just makes it an action of that type. It would definitely be rare, but I could see a defense action like "The next time you take damage this round, reduce it by X". That could potentially also interact with a villain card that says "Heroes cannot take Defense actions", or a new status effect (we've got ones that prevent attacking and thwarting/scheming, makes sense that we'll see one to prevent defense at some point).

Edit: Except that the new limitation means they could only be used while you're defending, so yes - Defense Action is now actually an oxymoron.

12 hours ago, Buhallin said:

Edit: Except that the new limitation means they could only be used while you're defending, so yes - Defense Action is now actually an oxymoron.

To be more precise: while you are being the target of an attack (you don't necessarily have to be defending)

Under the previous ruleset, Ms. Marvel could Wiggle Room during an attack on anyone and suddenly become the target of that attack without exhausting, allowing her to recycle the card with her Hero ability. Now she has to defend like everyone else.

11 minutes ago, Iuchi Toshimo said:

Under the previous ruleset, Ms. Marvel could Wiggle Room during an attack on anyone and suddenly become the target of that attack without exhausting, allowing her to recycle the card with her Hero ability. Now she has to defend like everyone else.

How would that work? If she weren't the target in the first place she wouldn't be taking damage, so there wouldn't be a trigger to play the card at all.

Although on the note of Wiggle Room, the new rule does mean that it can't be used to avoid damage from treacheries or boost effects if another player is the target.

20 hours ago, Iuchi Toshimo said:

Under the previous ruleset, Ms. Marvel could Wiggle Room during an attack on anyone and suddenly become the target of that attack without exhausting, allowing her to recycle the card with her Hero ability. Now she has to defend like everyone else.

Nah, that didn’t work under the previous rule set. Pre-emptive strike was the only card that could do that in the original rules (and even then there are a lot of people that are quite vehement that it didn’t work that way either)

On 2/26/2020 at 11:42 AM, SpiderMana said:

So... they didn't actually answer whether you can counter-punch off of Preemptive Strike? You can only play defense abilities if you're the target of an attack, but does that count as "defending"?

It no longer says it counts as a ‘defense’ when you play that card as it did under the old rule. So it seems like you can’t trigger counter punch off it.

I still don’t understand why they have both ‘defend’and ‘defense‘. Just using ‘defend’ alone would have been sufficient and would have never led to rules question of is a ‘defense’ considered ‘defending’ for the purpose of triggering these cards.

@pixcalcis
"It no longer says it counts as a ‘defense’ when you play that card as it did under the old rule. So it seems like you can’t trigger counter punch off it.

I still don’t understand why they have both ‘defend’and ‘defense‘. Just using ‘defend’ alone would have been sufficient and would have never led to rules question of is a ‘defense’ considered ‘defending’ for the purpose of triggering these cards."

Although they have the same root, they're different words, is the short answer.

Defend exhausts your hero and reduces incoming damage by your DEF value.

Defense is a keyword that determines when the card can be played, and which other cards may make use of for their own effects. For example, Ms. Marvel can exhaust to return a defense keyword card to her hand after using it.

So, as a matter of terms of art, Defend is only used to indicate if you're exhausting your hero (or an ally) to absorb the damage and apply any DEF value. Defense cards can only be used if you're the target of an attack, regardless of if you exhaust to Defend or not. (Although some defense cards might require that you defend as a precondition for playing them).

So, the conditional "When you defend" is different than the conditional "When you are the target of an attack" which is different than "When you would take damage", etc....

17 hours ago, Derrault said:

@pixcalcis
"It no longer says it counts as a ‘defense’ when you play that card as it did under the old rule. So it seems like you can’t trigger counter punch off it.

I still don’t understand why they have both ‘defend’and ‘defense‘. Just using ‘defend’ alone would have been sufficient and would have never led to rules question of is a ‘defense’ considered ‘defending’ for the purpose of triggering these cards."

Although they have the same root, they're different words, is the short answer.

Defend exhausts your hero and reduces incoming damage by your DEF value.

Defense is a keyword that determines when the card can be played, and which other cards may make use of for their own effects. For example, Ms. Marvel can exhaust to return a defense keyword card to her hand after using it.

So, as a matter of terms of art, Defend is only used to indicate if you're exhausting your hero (or an ally) to absorb the damage and apply any DEF value. Defense cards can only be used if you're the target of an attack, regardless of if you exhaust to Defend or not. (Although some defense cards might require that you defend as a precondition for playing them).

So, the conditional "When you defend" is different than the conditional "When you are the target of an attack" which is different than "When you would take damage", etc....

Yes, I know that and understand how it works. I’m saying it would have been more elegant to have the cards with the defense keyword instead have a ‘defend’ keyword that also counted as defending so that it was in line with attack and thwart. It would work the same as it is now (only play it during an attack, etc) except you could trigger other effects off them.

But regardless, considering the fact that they aren’t the same i find it strange that they are lumped together as the same entry in the rules reference.