My assumption is that both a target lock and Han Solo’s pilot ability share the same timing and you can choose their order.

Question 1: if I use a lock for rerolls, can I still use Han to reroll afterwards?

Question 2: Assuming Q1 is a yes, if I use Han’s ability do I reroll all dice or just the ones that have NOT been already rerolled.

I understand this is not the typical, optimal order but still need to know for a niche case.

Thanks!

9 minutes ago, JBFancourt said:

Question 1: if I use a lock for rerolls, can I still use Han to reroll afterwards?

Question 2: Assuming Q1 is a yes, if I use Han’s ability do I reroll all dice or just the ones that have NOT been already rerolled.

No. Han still considers his own ability a re-roll so using the lock first will block it. Han's ability requires that all the dice be rerolled when using his ability. Consider it a do-over roll. If you don't like the results you "Han" them (reroll all of the dice you rolled) and then look at the new results to see how you want to mod the new roll.

Just now, Hiemfire said:

No. Han still considers his own ability a re-roll so using the lock first will block it. Han's ability requires that all the dice be rerolled when using his ability. Consider it a do-over roll. If you don't like the results you "Han" them (reroll all of the dice you rolled) and then look at the new results to see how you want to mod the new roll.

Your answer is unclear to me.

Assume I reroll one result with my lock. Then I want to Han.

plz answer again. 😜

1 minute ago, JBFancourt said:

Your answer is unclear to me.

Assume I reroll one result with my lock. Then I want to Han.

plz answer again. 😜

Because Han's ability requires rerolling all of the dice (per the text on his card) and Han considers his own ability a reroll ("for the purpose of other effects". Han's ability is not an "other effect" to Han) using the lock first to reroll any # of dice blocks you using Han's ability on that roll. You have to use Han's ability first and when you do you must reroll all of the dice .

1 hour ago, JBFancourt said:

My assumption is that both a target lock and Han Solo’s pilot ability share the same timing and you can choose their order.

Question 1: if I use a lock for rerolls, can I still use Han to reroll afterwards?

Question 2: Assuming Q1 is a yes, if I use Han’s ability do I reroll all dice or just the ones that have NOT been already rerolled.

I understand this is not the typical, optimal order but still need to know for a niche case.

Thanks!

1. Yes. RR page 30.

Quote

Q: Can Han Solo [Pilot, Modified YT-1300]’s ability be used on a die that has been rerolled?

A: Yes. Han Solo’s ability is not treated as a reroll, so it can be used on a rerolled die.

2. All dice. Han is an All or nothing ability (appropriate to his character). If it allowed selective rerolls, it would say "reroll any number".

@Hiemfire would be right if it wasn't for the fact that han solo is a very special case.



that pretty much answers all of it. @Lyianx is 100% right.

@Lyianx @Hiemfire @meffo

Thanks guys! Didn’t remember that FAQ.

Seems pretty definitive.

Just for the background: I’m shooting 4v3 against 1 Hull ship. He has evade focus, I have lock focus. I roll hit hit Crit blank. Spend my lock to reroll blank into blank. ..... it’s a do or die moment, frankly. But I was unsure if I could Han reroll or not and if the blank could even be rerolled.

Might be helpful to state a few rules about Han Solo (Rebel pilot)...

1. It is a dice modification. That means it happens during the relevant Modify Attack/Defense Dice steps, AFTER the opposing player has had any relevant opportunities to modify your dice. Notable, effects that shut down dice modification (Midnight, Snap Shot, etc) prevent the use of Han Solo's ability.
2. It's not a reroll. The rules state that you can only "reroll" a die once per attack. Han Solo isn't considered to be a reroll, but is instead a special form of modification that happens to involve rerolling your dice. Effects that might trigger after either rolling or rerolling dice, do not come into play after you use Han Solo.
3. It has to be your first modification. Han Solo has a trigger of "after you roll dice," which in game terminology means "the soonest point that you can, immediately after." That means you have to decide about Han Solo, before you do any other modifications (locks, focus, etc). Your opponent, of course, gets the opportunity to modify your dice first, after which point you can take over. Turns out you can use Han at any time during your "modify dice" window.
4. It's all or nothing. You can't choose to not reroll all of your dice, unless something prevents a portion of your dice from being modified (not sure what that might be, but I suppose it's possible that a similar effect could happen down the line).
5. It's not just for combat! Any time you roll dice, red or green, including for obstacle effects, bombs/mines, or upgrade cards, you're entitled to a Han Solo reroll.

@emeraldbeacon

So point 3 contradicts @Lyianx and @meffo

😢 😢 😢

26 minutes ago, JBFancourt said:

@emeraldbeacon

So point 3 contradicts @Lyianx and @meffo

😢 😢 😢

How so? It's entirely consistent within the specific confines of what Han Solo can do. If you're going to use Han Solo, you have to do it on your whole roll, before you do any other modifications. Now, your OPPONENT can modify your dice before you, in which case, some or all of your dice may have already been rerolled (L3-37 (crew) or M9-G8 (astromech) for attack, Zuckuss (crew) for defense, etc).

19 minutes ago, emeraldbeacon said:

How so? It's entirely consistent within the specific confines of what Han Solo can do. If you're going to use Han Solo, you have to do it on your whole roll, before you do any other modifications. Now, your OPPONENT can modify your dice before you, in which case, some or all of your dice may have already been rerolled (L3-37 (crew) or M9-G8 (astromech) for attack, Zuckuss (crew) for defense, etc).

@Lyianx stated I can spend my lock then Han if I choose because same timing window I can choose order

48 minutes ago, JBFancourt said:

@emeraldbeacon

So point 3 contradicts @Lyianx and @meffo

😢 😢 😢

53 minutes ago, emeraldbeacon said:

3. It has to be your first modification. Han Solo has a trigger of "after you roll dice," which in game terminology means "the soonest point that you can, immediately after." That means you have to decide about Han Solo, before you do any other modifications (locks, focus, etc). Your opponent, of course, gets the opportunity to modify your dice first, after which point you can take over.

A bit of background on that conflict: Originally the (general) community interpreted Han as being completely outside dice modification. Han's reroll was made immediately after the dice were rolled and before the opponent modifies step.

Then FFG dropped a 'clarification' that completely changed that by requiring the reroll to be made as a dice modification during the appropriate modification step. Reasoning being that there is no explicit or implied 'immediate' in Han's ability so it should be slotted into the appropriate step, much the same way that Quickdraw's bonus attack is made during Aftermath step rather than during Deal Damage step.

The new clarified timing is officially reinforced by the FAQ rulings in the current Rules Reference (v1.1.0) quoted above by Lyianx and meffo. On p.33:

" Q: How is Han Solo [Rebel, Modified YT-1300]'s ability categorized? Is it a dice modification? Is it a reroll? What is its timing window?
A: Han Solo's ability is treated as a dice modification effect that is not a reroll. Because it is a dice modification effect, when attacking or defending, it triggers during the Modify Dice step. Note, however, that it can also affect other die rolls, such as the roll to determine if a ship suffers damage from overlapping or moving through an asteroid. "

And p.30:

" Q: Can Han Solo [Pilot, Modified YT-1300]’s ability be used on a die that has been rerolled?
A: Yes. Han Solo’s ability is not treated as a reroll, so it can be used on a rerolled die.
"

TL,DR: The p33 Q/A means that his ability is used at the appropriate modify attack/defense dice step and can be shuffled with other modifications within that specific step. That is further reinforced be the p30 Q/A which acknowledges other reroll modifications can happen before Han is used by addressing that he still rerolls them.

Eh, fair enough. I was under the impression that you had to Han at the start, or not at all, because of the wording (it would force the Han Reroll to be at the front of the queue when that step arrived), but it's perfectly reasonable that it could be used at any time, as well. I'll edit the upper post to reflect this.

Slight issue with that FAQ that they hopefully will clarify,

31 minutes ago, nitrobenz said:

Q: Can Han Solo [Pilot, Modified YT-1300]’s ability be used on a die that has been rerolled?
A: Yes. Han Solo’s ability is not treated as a reroll, so it can be used on a rerolled die.

Following this FAQ as worded means Han can infinite roll his own "roll" since per the FAQ he doesn't count as a reroll...

31 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Following this FAQ as worded means Han can infinite roll his own "roll" since per the FAQ he doesn't count as a reroll...

I'm afraid you're wrong, as the ability is still restricted to occur once per opportunity (rules reference, page 2):

Once Per Opportunity
Many abilities are restricted to occur “once per opportunity,” which means
they can be resolved only one time during the specified timing window. For
example, if an ability occurs “At the start of the Engagement Phase,” this
ability can only be resolved once at the start of each Engagement Phase.

As another example, if a ship has the ability “While you perform an attack,
you may reroll 1 attack die,” it may resolve that ability once during each of its
attacks.

Han cannot choose to reroll fewer than all the dice, but I can think of at least one situation wherein Han uses his ability and only rerolls some but not all of the dice: he rolls multiple eyeballs while in an enemy Padme Amidala's firing arc. In this case he'd reroll the maximum number allowed (all non-eye results and one eye result) and after the reroll he would not be able to further modify any eyeball results.

1 hour ago, R2DGon said:

I'm afraid you're wrong, as the ability is still restricted to occur once per opportunity (rules reference, page 2):

Once Per Opportunity
Many abilities are restricted to occur “once per opportunity,” which means
they can be resolved only one time during the specified timing window. For
example, if an ability occurs “At the start of the Engagement Phase,” this
ability can only be resolved once at the start of each Engagement Phase.

As another example, if a ship has the ability “While you perform an attack,
you may reroll 1 attack die,” it may resolve that ability once during each of its
attacks.

Reread Han's trigger condition.

4 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

Reread Han's trigger condition.

I did, but I think I don't get your point. Not counting as a reroll is different than not counting as using his ability.

Maybe you're considering that rerolling dice is the same as rolling them. Let me know 😊

13 hours ago, emeraldbeacon said:

I was under the impression that you had to Han at the start, or not at all, because of the wording

You maybe thinking of this ruling.

Quote

Q: How does Han Solo [Rebel, Modified YT-1300]'s ability interact with C-3PO [Rebel, Crew]?

A: The "if you do and you roll exactly that many evade results..." portion of C-3PO's ability triggers occurs after the dice are rolled, before the Modify Dice step. Thus, Han Solo's effect occurs after C-3PO's effect has been resolved. If using Han Solo after using C-3PO, the added die must be rerolled.

Regarding the Han FAQ i posted earlier, i hate it. It directly contradicts the timing of Roll vs Reroll that has been agreed to be separate effects by the community, but i cannot find any official ruling on. Text from other cards have strongly suggested they are separate effects however. For example. The above mentioned C-3PO. Why is it in his case, "rolling" must be done before Han? Wouldn't "before rolling" also include "before rerolling" as they are saying it does with Han? Also..

Why would Sunny need to have the wording "roll or reroll"? Wouldn't "after you roll" also include rerolls?

Given that Han only says "After you roll" says he *should* only trigger after the initial roll, and not after any rerolls. But the FAQ ruling on him flat out overrides that stipulation for a purely "because i said so" reason. Really, FFG needs to Errata Han to say "After you roll or reroll.."

This may be where the confusion lies. For now, i can only say that, Han is the only exception to the "even after rerolling" rule due to the faq. But it bugs me.

I think the only way it works is if Han Solo's ability and the Lock have the same trigger condition and would thus use the ability queue, and they don't, Han's ability triggers after rolling dice and a Lock doesn't actually have a trigger at all.

The RRG defines what the word "after" means.

Quote

TIMING

There are several terms used to indicate the specific timing of an effect:

After : The effect resolves immediately following the timing specified.

The rules for spending a Lock are:

Quote

• During the Modify Attack Dice step of a ship’s attack, it can spend a lock token that it has on the defender to reroll one or more of its attack dice.

The words "after rolling dice" do not appear there, so we have two different timing specifications ("immediately following" and "during"). If you are spending a lock to modify your dice, then you did not meet the timing requirements to use Han's ability, which is "immediately after" you rolled your attack dice.

Furthermore, the entry in the FAQ for Han is not actually helpful because it doesn't specifically mention target locks, it's just talking about rerolls, so it would have to be a reroll effect that shares the same timing specifications that Han's does. Currently I don't believe there are any such abilities, at least not legal to Rebels.

Honestly though this feels like a moot conversation because you should never be spending a lock before you use Han's ability, there is zero benefit I can think of to waiting to use Han until after you've blown your lock on something. Just use Han first, then spend your lock if you still need to.

5 hours ago, Hiemfire said:

Reread Han's trigger condition.

I'm not following... are you implying that Han's ability triggers itself, as you are rolling dice to use his ability?

7 hours ago, Tvboy said:

Honestly though this feels like a moot conversation because you should never be spending a lock before you use Han's ability, there is zero benefit I can think of to waiting to use Han until after you've blown your lock on something. Just use Han first, then spend your lock if you still need to.

Read my scenario:

14 hours ago, JBFancourt said:

Just for the background: I’m shooting 4v3 against 1 Hull ship. He has evade focus, I have lock focus. I roll hit hit Crit blank. Spend my lock to reroll blank into blank. ..... it’s a do or die moment, frankly. But I was unsure if I could Han reroll or not and if the blank could even be rerolled.

👆 👆 👆

While this is very niche, I would always try the lock on the blank. But I decided I would rather gamble the entire game here because it was literally the game if he dodged the hit.

10 hours ago, emeraldbeacon said:

I'm not following... are you implying that Han's ability triggers itself, as you are rolling dice to use his ability?

As worded with the FAQ applied as written yes.

Does using Han's ability actually count as rolling dice again though? It mostly sounds like you r oll dice, then during the attacker modifies dice step you can use Han's ability to reroll any number. It doesn't count as a new roll, but it doesn't count as a reroll. So if an ability came out that says, "While defending, if an opponent rerolled any number of dice you may acquire a lock on the attacker." you wouldn't be able to take a lock on Han if he used his ability to reroll. But if an ability said, "While defending, after your opponent rolls dice, you may gain a calculate token." You wouldn't be able to gain a calculate token if Han used his reroll.

Point being, I'm not sure how Han using his ability count as a new trigger as rolling dice. It seems that wording is only used because they wanted Han's ability to trigger on things like Lando crew, asteroids etc. and not only when he was attacking. While his reroll doesn't count as a reroll for other game effects, I don't think it counts as rolling dice again.

Just because something doesn't count as rerolling, doesn't mean it counts as rolling, or, if there is an interpretation that doesn't infinite loop, that one's correct.

Han is poorly worded, and has been known by this forum to be poorly worded since before 2e officially came out, for exactly the reason that it's designed to interact with non-attack rolls.

It could have trivially been worded to be less ambiguous by making it two separate abilities, one for attacks and one for everything else, but it wasn't.