Hidden Library - Echoes of the Past

By msieder, in Arkham Horror: The Card Game

In this scenario, what path do hunter enemies takes while you are in the library?

It's Act 3 when the Hidden Library is in play, meaning that all locations with the Passageway trait are connected to each other. The Hidden Library gains the Passageway trait when enemies are moving.

So Hunter enemies will move as normal, via the shortest route to the nearest investigator (following their Prey instructions in the event of a tie); if all investigators are in the Hidden Library, enemies will move towards the nearest location with the Passageway trait and from there to the library.

Just now, Allonym said:

It's Act 3 when the Hidden Library is in play, meaning that all locations with the Passageway trait are connected to each other. The Hidden Library gains the Passageway trait when enemies are moving.

So Hunter enemies will move as normal, via the shortest route to the nearest investigator (following their Prey instructions in the event of a tie); if all investigators are in the Hidden Library, enemies will move towards the nearest location with the Passageway trait and from there to the library.

It is possible that there are no revealed locations with the passageway trait. Where would the monsters move in this case?

2 minutes ago, msieder said:

It is possible that there are no revealed locations with the passageway trait. Where would the monsters move in this case?

It is impossible for the players to be in the Hidden Library without any other Passageway locations being revealed, because the only way for players to reach the Hidden Library is by using Mr Peabody to give the Hidden Library the Passageway trait and then move to it from an existing Passageway location.

1 minute ago, Allonym said:

It is impossible for the players to be in the Hidden Library without any other Passageway locations being revealed, because the only way for players to reach the Hidden Library is by using Mr Peabody to give the Hidden Library the Passageway trait and then move to it from an existing Passageway location.

this is incorrect. Mr peabody reads "Until Mr. Peabody readies, that location gets -1 shroud and gains Passageway trait". So when Mr. Peabody readies, it is possible for the investigators to be in the hidden library with no revealed location that contains the Passageway trait. I know it is possible, since it happen on my first play through.

5 minutes ago, msieder said:

this is incorrect. Mr peabody reads "Until Mr. Peabody readies, that location gets -1 shroud and gains Passageway trait". So when Mr. Peabody readies, it is possible for the investigators to be in the hidden library with no revealed location that contains the Passageway trait. I know it is possible, since it happen on my first play through.

Giving it more thought, I would have to guess that this card is poorly written, and that when Peabody readies, only the -1 shroud disappears, and not the Passageway trait. Just another example where FFG could have be more concise and clear...

Just now, msieder said:

this is incorrect. Mr peabody reads "Until Mr. Peabody readies, that location gets -1 shroud and gains Passageway trait". So when Mr. Peabody readies, it is possible for the investigators to be in the hidden library with no revealed location that contains the Passageway trait. I know it is possible, since it happen on my first play through.

No, it is not incorrect, and it seems that you made a mistake during your first playthrough.

Let's start at the top, since I'm not sure exactly where the misunderstanding lies:

You have just resolved Act 2b, putting Mr Peabody under the control of an investigator, and putting the unrevealed Hidden Library into play.

It is not possible for you to travel to the Hidden Library, since it is not connected to any location in the game (it has no connection icon).

You advance to Act 3a, introducing a new rule: Locations with the Passageway trait are connected to one another. However, this by itself doesn't help you get to the Hidden Library, since the Hidden Library does not have any traits.

Mr Peabody has the text "[Action] Exhaust Mr. Peabody: Choose a location. Until Mr. Peabody readies, that location gets -1 shroud and gains the Passageway trait."

In order to reach the Hidden Library, there is only one solution: You need to find a Passageway location (of which there are several), and then use Mr Peabody to give the Passageway trait to the Hidden Library, at which point the Hidden Library will be connected to all other Passageway locations until Mr Peabody readies. If you have not found any other Passageway locations, it is impossible to enter the Hidden Library because even if it gains the Passageway trait, it won't connect to anywhere.

If I had to guess at where the misunderstanding lies, it would be that you misinterpreted the text on Act 3a as allowing you to travel to the Hidden Library from anywhere once you give it the Passageway trait, rather than its actual meaning of only creating connections between different locations that have the trait.

Just now, msieder said:

Giving it more thought, I would have to guess that this card is poorly written, and that when Peabody readies, only the -1 shroud disappears, and not the Passageway trait. Just another example where FFG could have be more concise and clear...

This is also incorrect; readying Mr Peabody will also remove the Passageway trait. In the scenario where you use Mr Peabody to reach the Hidden Library, it is possible for the Hidden Library to lose Passageway , trapping you there until you use Mr Peabody again or end the scenario (but enemies can still come to you). There are certainly situations where card or rules text in this game is ambiguous and unclear, but this is not one of them.

15 minutes ago, Allonym said:

No, it is not incorrect, and it seems that you made a mistake during your first playthrough.

Let's start at the top, since I'm not sure exactly where the misunderstanding lies:

You have just resolved Act 2b, putting Mr Peabody under the control of an investigator, and putting the unrevealed Hidden Library into play.

It is not possible for you to travel to the Hidden Library, since it is not connected to any location in the game (it has no connection icon).

You advance to Act 3a, introducing a new rule: Locations with the Passageway trait are connected to one another. However, this by itself doesn't help you get to the Hidden Library, since the Hidden Library does not have any traits.

Mr Peabody has the text "[Action] Exhaust Mr. Peabody: Choose a location. Until Mr. Peabody readies, that location gets -1 shroud and gains the Passageway trait."

In order to reach the Hidden Library, there is only one solution: You need to find a Passageway location (of which there are several), and then use Mr Peabody to give the Passageway trait to the Hidden Library, at which point the Hidden Library will be connected to all other Passageway locations until Mr Peabody readies. If you have not found any other Passageway locations, it is impossible to enter the Hidden Library because even if it gains the Passageway trait, it won't connect to anywhere.

If I had to guess at where the misunderstanding lies, it would be that you misinterpreted the text on Act 3a as allowing you to travel to the Hidden Library from anywhere once you give it the Passageway trait, rather than its actual meaning of only creating connections between different locations that have the trait.

This is also incorrect; readying Mr Peabody will also remove the Passageway trait. In the scenario where you use Mr Peabody to reach the Hidden Library, it is possible for the Hidden Library to lose Passageway , trapping you there until you use Mr Peabody again or end the scenario (but enemies can still come to you). There are certainly situations where card or rules text in this game is ambiguous and unclear, but this is not one of them.

I can appreciate your effort here. I can appreciate that you have decided this was clear to you, but even after your response, it still is not clear to me. So I guess deciding if it is generally clear to all players is a subjective opinion. I did make the mistake in assuming mr peabody connected the library when he created a passageway. I see that now. However, i still have been looking for how a location with an innate passageway trait could connect to the hidden library. Mr Peabody is an asset in my ally slot. you have said "then use Mr Peabody to give the Passageway trait to the Hidden Library". If i cannot get to the hidden library, how does my ally asset get there in order to transform it to a passageway. Even in your response, this isnt clear to me.

I suppose I can infer that I find a location with a printed "passageway" on the card. And exhaust Mr Peabody at that location, and this will transform the hidden library to be a "passageway", and I can then enter there... This is stated no where in the game text...

Mr. Peabody can give any location -1 shroud and the passageway trait from anywhere. He can do this to the hidden library from anywhere or to any other available location, which might be otherwise beneficial such as moving Guardians around to punch cultists. Mr. Peabody could give -1 shroud and the Passageway trait to the planet Mars, were only that Mars was a legal target in this scenario. The passageway trait itself is meaningless without the extra game text on act 3.

Logically, one cannot enter (or leave) the hidden library unless the investigator controlling Mr. Peabody activates the ability and chooses the hidden library, giving it the passageway trait. Then, any investigator at a different passageway could move into the hidden library or from the hidden library to a passageway. Mr. Peabody's ability would need to be done every turn to maintain the additional connection(s). This creates a conditional statement requiring another passageway to be in play before any investigator could get to the hidden library. If the setup somehow did not contain passageways in the manor proper, then no one could ever enter the hidden library.

If that's the case, please double check that setup was performed correctly, because that situation shouldn't be possible.

It is also possible that the passageway trait has gone unnoticed on the locations that have it naturally. (both Historical Libraries and Mr. Peabody's Office)

Edited by Iuchi Toshimo
(or leave)
39 minutes ago, Iuchi Toshimo said:

Mr. Peabody can give any location -1 shroud and the passageway trait from anywhere. He can do this to the hidden library from anywhere or to any other available location, which might be otherwise beneficial such as moving Guardians around to punch cultists. Mr. Peabody could give -1 shroud and the Passageway trait to the planet Mars, were only that Mars was a legal target in this scenario. The passageway trait itself is meaningless without the extra game text on act 3.

Logically, one cannot enter (or leave) the hidden library unless the investigator controlling Mr. Peabody activates the ability and chooses the hidden library, giving it the passageway trait. Then, any investigator at a different passageway could move into the hidden library or from the hidden library to a passageway. Mr. Peabody's ability would need to be done every turn to maintain the additional connection(s). This creates a conditional statement requiring another passageway to be in play before any investigator could get to the hidden library. If the setup somehow did not contain passageways in the manor proper, then no one could ever enter the hidden library.

If that's the case, please double check that setup was performed correctly, because that situation shouldn't be possible.

It is also possible that the passageway trait has gone unnoticed on the locations that have it naturally. (both Historical Libraries and Mr. Peabody's Office)

Ah yes. Thank you. I also incorrectly assumed Mr Peabody was only affecting his current location. I guess he must be a bit magical. Yes, I was lucky enough in my first run thru to have the passageways on the first two levels both be the ones out of the game. So i wasnt even really aware they existed.