Do they have the same timing window or does Afterburners trigger first?

After you perform a SLAM action, if you fully executed the maneuver, you may perform a white action on your action bar, treating that action as red.

After you fully execute a speed 3-5 maneuver, you may spend 1 to perform a action, even while stressed.

1. The player chooses a maneuver from the ship’s dial. The maneuver must match the speed of the maneuver that the ship executed this round.

2. The ship executes the chosen maneuver.

3. The ship gains one disarm token.

A ship can perform a SLAM action only as the ship’s one action during the Perform Action step. Therefore a ship cannot perform a SLAM action if it is granted an action from another effect.

• A SLAMaction fails if the final position of the ship would cause it to flee.

• When a ship performs a SLAM action, it has performed an action as well as executed a maneuver for the sake of abilities.

Afterburners is a slightly earlier trigger point, as the manouevre element of the SLAM action completes before the action that encloses it at step 2, which also includes assigning the WD token at step 3.

And it doesn't really matter, given that you can do Afterburners whilst stressed anyway.

1 minute ago, Tvboy said:

Do they have the same timing window or does Afterburners trigger first?

Afterburners triggers before the Perform Action step has started (after fully execution of maneuvers of the speed outlined), Advanced SLAM triggers after performing a SLAM action which can only happen during the Perform Action step per the RR (Page 18 of v110).

"A ship can perform a action only as the ship’s one action during the Perform Action step. Therefore a ship cannot perform a action if it is granted an action from another effect."

Or were you referring to the SLAM action's maneuver triggering Afterburners? In that specific case the timing is effectively the same and they can be processed in either order.

1 hour ago, Hiemfire said:

Or were you referring to the SLAM action's maneuver triggering Afterburners? In that specific case the timing is effectively the same and they can be processed in either order.

Yes I meant the scenario where Afterburners and Advanced Slam would actually be triggering at the same time. Just wanted to check since their timing windows have different wordings (fully executing a maneuver and after resolving an action), but good to know they are effectively the same so I can do the shenanigans I want. Thanks.

Ok, I'm about to ask a stupid question. In 1E, the rules stated that upgrade cards that granted actions, those actions were added to your action bar. That statement is missing in 2E. The Advanced Slam card specifically states from your action bar. Does this preclude the use of Afterburners after Advanced Slam?

With 1E mantra of "Do what the card says and don't do what the card doesn't say" I had to ask. 2E has some very subtle changes from 1E and I was wondering if this was one of them.

10 minutes ago, Stoneface said:

Ok, I'm about to ask a stupid question. In 1E, the rules stated that upgrade cards that granted actions, those actions were added to your action bar. That statement is missing in 2E. The Advanced Slam card specifically states from your action bar. Does this preclude the use of Afterburners after Advanced Slam?

With 1E mantra of "Do what the card says and don't do what the card doesn't say" I had to ask. 2E has some very subtle changes from 1E and I was wondering if this was one of them.

They're not using Advanced SLAM to trigger Afterburners, the 2 abilities enter the queue at the same time. The SLAM action itself counts as both a maneuver and an action so if they Execute a speed 3-5 maneuver as their SLAM action Afterburners triggers. Advanced SLAM itself grants a separate opportunity to perform an action from the ship's action bar if the Action performed in the Perform Action step is a SLAM.

3 minutes ago, Hiemfire said:

They're not using Advanced SLAM to trigger Afterburners, the 2 abilities enter the queue at the same time. The SLAM action itself counts as both a maneuver and an action so if they Execute a speed 3-5 maneuver as their SLAM action Afterburners triggers. Advanced SLAM itself grants a separate opportunity to perform an action from the ship's action bar if the Action performed in the Perform Action step is a SLAM.

They don't enter at the same time though.

Afterburners happens at step 2 of the SLAM process, ASLAM happens after step 3.

1 hour ago, Stoneface said:

Ok, I'm about to ask a stupid question. In 1E, the rules stated that upgrade cards that granted actions, those actions were added to your action bar. That statement is missing in 2E. The Advanced Slam card specifically states from your action bar. Does this preclude the use of Afterburners after Advanced Slam?

With 1E mantra of "Do what the card says and don't do what the card doesn't say" I had to ask. 2E has some very subtle changes from 1E and I was wondering if this was one of them.

1E had no way of showing that those actions were added to the ships action bar. 2E does as upgrades that do this, have an 'action bar' on the right side of the card. This tells you its adding that action to the ships action bar. Anything within the text, is not unless it specifically says it does. So in this case, Afterburners is NOT adding the boost action to the ships action bar.

2 hours ago, Tvboy said:

Yes I meant the scenario where Afterburners and Advanced Slam would actually be triggering at the same time. Just wanted to check since their timing windows have different wordings (fully executing a maneuver and after resolving an action), but good to know they are effectively the same so I can do the shenanigans I want. Thanks.

I think i see what you are asking.

So, yes. After you execute a 3-5 maneuver, you can decide if you want to trigger Afterburners. Then, during your perform action step, decide if you want to trigger SLAM. If you SLAM, After you fully executed that SLAM maneuver, if it was 3-5, Afterburners can trigger, then you gain a disarm token, then Adv. SLAM triggers.

Note though, that you Cannot use afterburners twice in the same round. So you cannot Maneuver, Afterburn, Slam then afterburn again. This is because it tells you to perform a Boost Action, and you are limited by the rule "each action can only be performed once per round"

36 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

They don't enter at the same time though.

Afterburners happens at step 2 of the SLAM process, ASLAM happens after step 3.

So you're interpretation is different from @Hiemfire 's, and is actually what I was thinking as well, but I want them to be interchangeable so that I can boost/barrel roll in any order off of a slam (this is with the Fireball in extended of course).

Would love to know there's a consensus.

1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

They don't enter at the same time though.

Afterburners happens at step 2 of the SLAM process, ASLAM happens after step 3.

Hua.. Yeah, you're right. Afterburners happens before the disarm token is gained.

ship activates. reveals dial and performs maneuver. afterburners triggers after maneuver and can be used if you like.

perform action step. ship can slam. afterburners triggers after maneuver and can be used if you like, but only if you didn't use it previously.

if you performed a slam action, you gain a disarm token. then you can trigger advanced slam.

so no, afterburners and advanced slam does not have the same timing window, even if you trigger afterburners off of the maneuver you performed while executing a slam action.

basically, i agree with @Lyianx .

Just chiming in to agree with the 'Afterburners free boost triggers before ASLAM free action' interpretation.

Thanks folks. Boost then Barrel Roll off of a slam should be good enough anyway.

Sheez. Anyone wanna do an echolocation chart of where a Fireball can end up with Afterburners and Adv. SLAM?

Can either:

1. move
2. move+roll
3. move+boost
4. move+boost+roll
5. move+boost+SLAM
6. move+boost+SLAM+roll
7. move+SLAM
8. move+SLAM+boost
9. move+SLAM+roll
10. move+SLAM+boost+roll

Add in the fact that the boosts don't even care if you're stressed. Or just throw Cybernetics on. Yeager is even worse. Talk about just put the ship where you want.

On 2/25/2020 at 9:24 PM, meffo said:

ship activates. reveals dial and performs maneuver. afterburners triggers after maneuver and can be used if you like.

perform action step. ship can slam. afterburners triggers after maneuver and can be used if you like, but only if you didn't use it previously .

Would you mind elaborating on why this is? I'm not sure I get it.

He means if you didn't use it previously in the round. You can't perform the same action twice in the same round. So say a ship uses Afterburners to boost after executing its maneuver, and then does a SLAM action (executing another maneuver). It cannot use Afterburners again because it has already boosted in that round.

31 minutes ago, Maui. said:

It cannot use Afterburners again because it has already boosted in that round.

Already performed a Boost action, technically.

Technically, Afterburner does have a potential trigger twice in the round (after both your regular maneuver, and your SLAM maneuver)... but as stated above, since you can only perform a boost action once per round, only one of the Afterburners triggers could be fully resolved.

22 hours ago, Maui. said:

He means if you didn't use it previously in the round. You can't perform the same action twice in the same round. So say a ship uses Afterburners to boost after executing its maneuver, and then does a SLAM action (executing another maneuver). It cannot use Afterburners again because it has already boosted in that round.

Well duh! I feel dumb

Thanks!