7 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

But...this is Star Wars under Disney. We absolutely must be outraged about how badly it’s being mishandled months before the stories’ release.

Isn't that how it works now?

I will probably be, once I've seen more.

I give them a little bit of credit after The Mandalorian.

You know what? I'm actually ok with diversity being stressed first.

Because our default assumption in most stories about a protagonist is that they are a white, cis, hetero, male.

I'm alright with writers being reminded "Hey, go ahead and make this character black, or this one LGBT, or this one female, or this one asian - and there doesn't have to be a reason for it other than to remember that all types of people exist.

Develop them beyond that, of course. But maybe don't immediately start with another white dude main character.

So, yeah, seeing that high on the white board doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Also, you know, I'm sure the writers want to include people who look like them in the stories, since it is a diverse writer's room.

But, yeah, can we maybe not lose our **** over a 3 minute video that's just to announce the **** thing? Good lord.

40 minutes ago, AEinhorn said:

You know what? I'm actually ok with diversity being stressed first.

Because our default assumption in most stories about a protagonist is that they are a white, cis, hetero, male.

I'm alright with writers being reminded "Hey, go ahead and make this character black, or this one LGBT, or this one female, or this one asian - and there doesn't have to be a reason for it other than to remember that all types of people exist.

Develop them beyond that, of course. But maybe don't immediately start with another white dude main character.

So, yeah, seeing that high on the white board doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Your assumptioms, not our assumptions. That's a big problem for diversity proponents: they tend to believe everyone is as closed-minded as they.

Pretty good assumption to make, since much of the entertainment industry still adheres to that paradigm, but you know, sure.

Anyway, some cool art!

I love, love, love the designs and how each Jedi feels way more unique and personalized, instead of the homogeneity found in the prequels. I suppose that's the point, after all, as here we have the Jedi Order before it became stagnant and overly dogmatic.

The very first Star Wars film was a diverse group of humans (including, unusually for the time, a woman) and aliens against a bunch of posh white English men coded as Space Nazis. Whatever you may think about diversity, it's pretty inarguably a bedrock of Star Wars.

I love, love, love the designs and how each Jedi feels way more unique and personalized, instead of the homogeneity found in the prequels. I suppose that's the point, after all, as here we have the Jedi Order before it became stagnant and overly dogmatic.

Yeah, just for starters the Zabrak twins look super interesting. What's their deal?

Have we seen dark lightsabers other than the Darksaber in canon so far?

21 minutes ago, Talkie Toaster said:

The very first Star Wars film was a diverse group of humans (including, unusually for the time, a woman) and aliens against a bunch of posh white English men coded as Space Nazis. Whatever you may think about diversity, it's pretty inarguably a bedrock of Star Wars.

Yeah, just for starters the Zabrak twins look super interesting. What's their deal?

Man, I have no idea, but I'm interested! One of the authors mentioned - “I would be lying if I said I wasn’t thrilled to be finally writing a Star Wars novel,” Soule says, who notes his book will include a number of characters including a sensitive Wookiee Jedi and a human Jedi who hears the Force as a song. " - and the bolded part is so cool! I'd love it if they explored how the Force is perceived by different Jedi, and the various ways you can 'hear' it.

4 minutes ago, KalEl814 said:

Have we seen dark lightsabers other than the Darksaber in canon so far?

I don't think so, no, so that's super neat, especially with the canon crystal lore.

11 hours ago, StarkJunior said:

But, also Star Wars is cheesy.

Sure, in that "it's a mash-up of old serials, Westerns, samurai flicks, and WWII dogfighting films with a splash of Arthurian legends, mythology, and peaceful religions ... all rolled up in a Hero's Journey burrito."

NOT cheesy in "Feelings," "Star Wars <3," "Dinosaurs!," "Diversity," "Relatable characters," "Representation," and the Harry Potter-esque "University" and "Rival Houses." All of that reads like a woke Millennial checklist and comes off looking extremely childish and naive.

I mean, of course one wants a diverse Star Wars, as diversity is the pleasant result of a healthy society and melting pot of cultures, ideologies, and ways of thinking. However, Star Wars has always been diverse; this white board makes it seem as if diversity needs to be pushed ... and that can lead to racist, classist, hard-to-believe caricatures or, even worse, the overt appearance of social justice propaganda.

And relatable and/or representational characters? My God, what is with the younger generations' hangup on this particular bullet point? Clearly we all wish to laugh, cry, and experience success with our fictional characters. But that does not mean they need to resemble us. I daresay most of us will never be rich industrialists with a penchant for wearing armored suits or Norse gods or talking raccoons or space cowboys or psionic swordsmen or some kind of cat who won't cop out when there's danger all about. Yet we can all aspire to be like these characters and certainly live through their journeys vicariously no matter their race, species, religion, or sexual orientation.

That said, I do indeed like it when at least one character in an ensemble continues to provide a cynical look at the absurdity of his/her place in the fictional universe they all inhabit (e.g., Han Solo, Leonard McCoy, Miles O'Brien, Tony Stark, Scott Lang, etc). So in that sense of the term "relatable," I'm on board.

Anway, whether that white board was staged for the video presentation or not, it is clear those topics were top-of-mind and oft-discussed. And as such, any excitement I might have had for this new venture was squashed.

But, look, the direction Star War is taking - with the exception of Favreau's Mandalorian - is simply not guided by the original trilogy any more and clearly aimed at the younger generations. Maybe these new themes will resonate with them. They're just not for me.

18 minutes ago, Harlock999 said:

and that can lead to racist, classist, hard-to-believe caricatures or, even worse, the overt appearance of social justice propaganda.

It strikes me as a bit odd that you find the latter worse than the former.

43 minutes ago, Harlock999 said:

Harry Potter-esque "University" and "Rival Houses."

Oh no. Oh please no. Pleeaasse no. I hadn't even processed that. *Shudder*

8 minutes ago, Vlad3theImpaler said:

It strikes me as a bit odd that you find the latter worse than the former.

Recent history suggests that such propaganda has the potential to harm the product way more than bland, bad or cliche characters/story.

The idea behind this project is really interesting and it would be a shame if all of it gets crushed by falling into the "go woke go broke" section. I think that this project can withstand at least some "bad" characters/story, but such propaganda seems to be able to push away customers who would otherwise have been loyal long time consumers.

Any perceived 'harm' because of progressive messages usually don't end-up being true. It's usually a bunch of other factors that have nothing to do with supposed 'progressive propaganda' - which, by the way, Star Wars has always had, and its not even propaganda, really. Star Wars is a progressive franchise in the same way Star Trek is - kinda hard not to be when the movie that started it all was a bunch of diverse hippies fighting authoritarian space Nazi analogs, and then became a bunch of hippie monks fighting exploitative capitalists.

But, anyway, can we just leave it at that and not have this devolve into another terrible thread about why Star Wars is dead?

I'm curious about all the new Jedi canon we'll get, and if we'll see other big temples or new parts of the Order we haven't seen before. And new Force powers!

I hope they also throw us a bone by mentioning some TotJ/KotoR fluff in the background.

42 minutes ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

Oh no. Oh please no. Pleeaasse no. I hadn't even processed that. *Shudder*

I was thinking 'rival houses' more in the Morrowind sense, or maybe Menzoberranzan from Homeland.

5 minutes ago, Voltron64 said:

I hope they also throw us a bone by mentioning some TotJ/KotoR fluff in the background.

Quite possible - they did bring in Malachor and Darth Bane, eventually. There's a lot of stuff that could use that could be adjusted to fit with whatever they want to do.

4 hours ago, AEinhorn said:

You know what? I'm actually ok with diversity being stressed first.

Because our default assumption in most stories about a protagonist is that they are a white, cis, hetero, male.

I'm alright with writers being reminded "Hey, go ahead and make this character black, or this one LGBT, or this one female, or this one asian - and there doesn't have to be a reason for it other than to remember that all types of people exist.

Develop them beyond that, of course. But maybe don't immediately start with another white dude main character.

So, yeah, seeing that high on the white board doesn't bother me in the slightest.

I don't think that is an assumption most people make. I think that is an assumption those in hollywood think we expect. But based on how well movies like Black Panther did I dont think it is actually the case that that is the default assumption.

I also wonder how much of the Outer Rim is unexplored even in 200 years prior - and if there are any new Force traditions hiding out there that don't know about the Jedi.

4 hours ago, AEinhorn said:

You know what? I'm actually ok with diversity being stressed first.

Because our default assumption in most stories about a protagonist is that they are a white, cis, hetero, male.

I'm alright with writers being reminded "Hey, go ahead and make this character black, or this one LGBT, or this one female, or this one asian - and there doesn't have to be a reason for it other than to remember that all types of people exist.

Develop them beyond that, of course. But maybe don't immediately start with another white dude main character.

So, yeah, seeing that high on the white board doesn't bother me in the slightest.

thing is I don't care what the protagonist is I want a good story the problem is if you make the main character non white non male you cant have them mess up or fail

also I don't want tokens I want good characters not a check box ie we have one of every type but they will not change at all

ALSO why cant we have a non human be the lead for once

12 minutes ago, Oldmike1 said:

thing is I don't care what the protagonist is I want a good story the problem is if you make the main character non white non male you cant have them mess up or fail

also I don't want tokens I want good characters not a check box ie we have one of every type but they will not change at all

ALSO why cant we have a non human be the lead for once

I disagree. You can have them mess up or fail. Black Panther messed up and failed in his movie and no one lost their mind. The thing is you can be lazy story wise and too often those in hollywood get super lazy story wise. Or at least unwilling to take any risks which then ends up with bland stories.

3 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

I disagree. You can have them mess up or fail. Black Panther messed up and failed in his movie and no one lost their mind. The thing is you can be lazy story wise and too often those in hollywood get super lazy story wise. Or at least unwilling to take any risks which then ends up with bland stories.

good point about black panther I felt that was a good movie what I was thinking about Ray at that moment

Hollywood is super lazy now everything seems to be a remake or part of a larger group of movies

33 minutes ago, StarkJunior said:

I also wonder how much of the Outer Rim is unexplored even in 200 years prior - and if there are any new Force traditions hiding out there that don't know about the Jedi.

While I didn’t see/hear it in the video, Alex from Star Wars Explained was at the event, and said that something about hyperspace being used differently somehow, which led his wife, Mollie, to speculate that perhaps established hyperlanes aren’t a “thing” yet, making hyperspace travel more dangerous.

1 minute ago, Nytwyng said:

While I didn’t see/hear it in the video, Alex from Star Wars Explained was at the event, and said that something about hyperspace being used differently somehow, which led his wife, Mollie, to speculate that perhaps established hyperlanes aren’t a “thing” yet, making hyperspace travel more dangerous.

Wow, that's cool. And a lot of story potential for how they get established.

42 minutes ago, Oldmike1 said:

thing is I don't care what the protagonist is I want a good story the problem is if you make the main character non white non male you cant have them mess up or fail

also I don't want tokens I want good characters not a check box ie we have one of every type but they will not change at all

ALSO why cant we have a non human be the lead for once

You start out by saying that you "don't care what the protagonist is," but then the rest of your post says the opposite.

1 minute ago, Vlad3theImpaler said:

You start out by saying that you "don't care what the protagonist is," but then the rest of your post says the opposite.

I was trying to point out why I hate the whole idea of the protagonist must be X stuff

I don't want a new Ray I want a protagonist that grows and fails from time to time