6 minutes ago, micheldebruyn said:

And it shows. Empire is a meandering mess, structurally speaking.

to me Empire is the best of all 9 movies

7 minutes ago, micheldebruyn said:

Well, it was.

And now that I think about it, going from Jar Jar being easily edited out of the story to Jar Jar being easily replaced by another character is very much moving the goal posts.

edited out is the same as replace. your not liking my point does not change it

6 minutes ago, Oldmike1 said:

to me Empire is the best of all 9 movies

exactly.
What you call meandering i call having the best character development in the movies.

1 hour ago, micheldebruyn said:

All right.

If you remove Jar Jar, the Gungans don't fight the Trade Federation and the bad guys win. If Jar Jar is remived Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan never make it to Padme in time, Nute Gunray kills her, and Luke and Leia don't exist. And I was misremembering before: Jar Jar is the patsy that gets duped into giving Palpatine his emergency powers that he needs to trigger Order 66 and set himself up as emperor..

He's annoying, and I wish he wasn't in the films, but you can't honestly say the character isn't important.

Apart from the actual dialogue, The Phantom Menace is actually very well written. It's more an ensemble film, but if it has a protagonist then that would be Palpatine. The entire plot of the film is basically just him making a power bid in the Senate and ousting Terence Stamp (I forgot the character's name). All that business with the Jedi and the Trade Federation is just a smoke screen.

So apart from 3/4ths of the movie its really well written.

Padme can't die, because Palpatine needed her to push the vote in the Senate which makes him Supreme High Mucky Muk. So really it isn't Palpatine's plan to make the power bid since his minions spend the entire movie trying to capture or kill her to force the Trade Federation deal through. Its more his back up plan when Maul and Nute Gunray screw up and let the Jedi escape with Padme... The whole thing delays his Clone war by at least a decade.

11 hours ago, NanashiAnon said:

Jar Jar was added to appeal to kids. Not exactly a good counter example there...

Yea true.

Jar-Jar was supposed to be that C-3PO was for the OT.
And perhaps if Threepio was only introduced more recently and not during the OT, he would've been frowned upon with an equal amount.

I must admit that I do like the droid way better than the Gungan.

11 hours ago, micheldebruyn said:

And it shows. Empire is a meandering mess, structurally speaking.

With all my being and all I hold dear, I must most respectfully, but unequivocally and wholeheartedly disagree .

Marvel Comics

21 minutes ago, Imperial Advisor Arem Heshvaun said:

With all my being and all I hold dear, I must most respectfully, but unequivocally and wholeheartedly disagree .

11 hours ago, Oldmike1 said:

to me Empire is the best of all 9 movies

It's my second favourite Star Wars film, but I stand by my judgement of its structure: it's a bit of a meandering mess, like road movies tend to be.

I'm looking forward to seeing where they go with this, though I think 400, or 200, or whatever it is is still far too short a time ago. If I had my druthers, they'd go many thousand years back, which gives them much more freedom with the state of the galaxy. I'd like to see the Jedi operating as Texas Rangers, safeguarding the fringes of the expanding Republic space. If they go back far enough, they could also have it cover a large (and I mean large ) chunk of time, seeing the expansion of the Republic from something encompassing the Core, Colonies, and Inner Rim, all the way out to the Outer Rim. It would start with the Expansion Region as more-or-less what the Outer Rim is in contemporary Star Wars, but maybe a bit fringier.

I think it fits what we're hearing about the Republic still expanding, and it would be interesting to see how they introduce the Hutts as the story goes along.

One of the big issues, in my opinion, with doing it just 200-400 years before is that there are characters from that time who are alive and some even in the same circles as the Jedi (Yoda and Yaddle), and a good many Hutts, though they would be younger and less notable (Jabba the Hutt, for example).

11 hours ago, Decorus said:

So apart from 3/4ths of the movie its really well written.

Padme can't die, because Palpatine needed her to push the vote in the Senate which makes him Supreme High Mucky Muk. So really it isn't Palpatine's plan to make the power bid since his minions spend the entire movie trying to capture or kill her to force the Trade Federation deal through. Its more his back up plan when Maul and Nute Gunray screw up and let the Jedi escape with Padme... The whole thing delays his Clone war by at least a decade.

Padme was supposed to die so he could use the tragedy of her death to push for a vote of no confidence in Valorum's leadership. She lived, and he improvised, but her survival lead to his eventual demise.

18 hours ago, P-47 Thunderbolt said:

He was actually talking about The Hobbit, not the LotR trilogy. To address his point, Galadriel was part of an entire storyline that wasn't part of the book, whereas Tauriel was tacked onto an existing storyline in a kinda weird way. Don't know if that's what Daeglan thinks, but that's one reason to not mention her.

The movie version of The Hobbit included a side story based upon Tolkien's Unfinished Tales , in particular, the story The Quest for Erebor , as well as sections from the Silmerillion covering the lead up to the Lord of the Rings . Galadriel was an integral part of these stories.

17 hours ago, Daeglan said:

the more integrated the character is the harder it is to just write them out. Jar Jar is not all that vital the couple things Jar Jar actually did are easy to shift to another character. my point is Jar Jar is a really poorly written character

I disagree. Only Jar Jar could have fostered the deal between the Gungans and the Naboo. Without him, Padme would never have even found the Gungan "Sacred Place", and gotten to meet Boss Nass. Without Jar Jar, Qui Gon and Obi Wan would never have gotten to Ota Gunga, and thus gotten the transport they needed to get to Theed. They needed a Gungan in order to accomplish both of those tasks.

17 hours ago, micheldebruyn said:

The story needed Jar Jar to exist way more than that it needed Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Jar Jar is not there to check a box. He's there to fill several a plot-critical roles. Could there have been another character instead? Sure. Would this character have been better written? No, it would still have been written by George Lucas.

Lucas may not know the first thing about writing dialogue or directing actors, but he **** well knows how to structure a script and write a plot and keep things tight. He understands story stucture really well.

Exactly.

5 hours ago, micheldebruyn said:

Padme was supposed to die so he could use the tragedy of her death to push for a vote of no confidence in Valorum's leadership. She lived, and he improvised, but her survival lead to his eventual demise.

Pretty much. Palpatine's whole scheme hinged upon his getting the "sympathy vote" resulting from Naboo's situation.

How is he going to get a sympathy vote when no one cared until Padme showed up at the Senate.

8 minutes ago, Decorus said:

How is he going to get a sympathy vote when no one cared until Padme showed up at the Senate.

"Our queen just got killed because of your inaction!"? Throw in some dramatic oration and Boom! instant sympathy.

I don't get how anyone could watch this trailer and the first thing coming to mind is ranting about diversity lmao.

I'm excited ma dudes!

I' m looking forward to this, like Count Dooku would say. The first books will perfectly fit the shelf next to the one with my FFG supplements.

4 hours ago, Vader is Love said:

I don't get how anyone could watch this trailer and the first thing coming to mind is ranting about diversity lmao.

I'm excited ma dudes!

I' m looking forward to this, like Count Dooku would say. The first books will perfectly fit the shelf next to the one with my FFG supplements.

I think a big part of it is how as of late "diversity" seems to go hand and hand with piss poor writing. Also how they use it as a shield to cover up bad writing

IE if you hate new star wars you hate women not crappy storytelling

31 minutes ago, Oldmike1 said:

I think a big part of it is how as of late "diversity" seems to go hand and hand with piss poor writing. Also how they use it as a shield to cover up bad writing

IE if you hate new star wars you hate women not crappy storytelling

This argument becomes somewhat lacking in content when thye same people keep on spouting it about all my favourite new shows and films.

50 minutes ago, micheldebruyn said:

This argument becomes somewhat lacking in content when thye same people keep on spouting it about all my favourite new shows and films.

that just means your bar to quality is lower or you have similar views to the creator so ignore sloppy workmanship.

Or not at all, you know. Plenty of people think movies you like are garbage and terrible, too, I'm sure. It's one thing to dislike something, it's another to blatantly label anything that includes diversity as being objectively a bad thing.

5 minutes ago, StarkJunior said:

Or not at all, you know. Plenty of people think movies you like are garbage and terrible, too, I'm sure. It's one thing to dislike something, it's another to blatantly label anything that includes diversity as being objectively a bad thing.

many movies who had diverse leads or casts where good BUT they did not use that as a way to market the movies they pushed the STORY

1 minute ago, Oldmike1 said:

many movies who had diverse leads or casts where good BUT they did not use that as a way to market the movies they pushed the STORY

The people who do the marketing and the people who write the story are generally not the same people.

Is my first impression shared by anyone? My first thought was, "More Jedi?".

New, fresh timeline and it looks like it's going to be dominated by Jedi characters. For me personally, I would have preferred something less Jedi-centric like they did with the recent hit TV series. The Clone Wars series was dominated by Jedi. The Prequels were dominated by Jedi. Somewhat less so the sequels were dominated by Jedi. How about taking a break from that for something new?

I love the fact they are jumping to a new era. I just hope that it isn't just about Jedi doing their usual great things. Before someone screams about Jedi being focal or it's not Star Wars, take a look at Episode IV and the Mandalorian. The Force is obviously involved in both, but the stories weren't dominated by Jedi and the Force. It was just a part of the story. Compare to the Clone Wars or the Prequels in which it's all about the Jedi. There's a huge difference for me.

So, I hope this new era includes central, primary characters, with just as much screen time, who are not Jedi. It completely does not look that way though with the break down of plots and the three characters in the OP artwork. It seems more like, let's take what we've already seen in Prequels/Clone Wars and add some Arthurian/Western to it and call it new? I worry it's just going to be more of the Clone Wars' Jedi on Missions with No Support! ....a couple centuries ago.

I'm hoping the Vikings in Spaaaccccce!!!!! includes some great characters who actually become primary, good guys? That could save it a bit.

7 minutes ago, Sturn said:

Is my first impression shared by anyone? My first thought was, "More Jedi?".

New, fresh timeline and it looks like it's going to be dominated by Jedi characters. For me personally, I would have preferred something less Jedi-centric like they did with the recent hit TV series. The Clone Wars series was dominated by Jedi. The Prequels were dominated by Jedi. Somewhat less so the sequels were dominated by Jedi. How about taking a break from that for something new?

I love the fact they are jumping to a new era. I just hope that it isn't just about Jedi doing their usual great things. Before someone screams about Jedi being focal or it's not Star Wars, take a look at Episode IV and the Mandalorian. The Force is obviously involved in both, but the stories weren't dominated by Jedi and the Force. It was just a part of the story. Compare to the Clone Wars or the Prequels in which it's all about the Jedi. There's a huge difference for me.

So, I hope this new era includes central, primary characters, with just as much screen time, who are not Jedi. It completely does not look that way though with the break down of plots and the three characters in the OP artwork. It seems more like, let's take what we've already seen in Prequels/Clone Wars and add some Arthurian/Western to it and call it new? I worry it's just going to be more of the Clone Wars' Jedi on Missions with No Support! ....a couple centuries ago.

I'm hoping the Vikings in Spaaaccccce!!!!! includes some great characters who actually become primary, good guys? That could save it a bit.

That was my first impression, yes. I'm definitely looking forward to this. Though, for me, the more Jedi the better.

40 minutes ago, Sturn said:

Is my first impression shared by anyone? My first thought was, "More Jedi?".

New, fresh timeline and it looks like it's going to be dominated by Jedi characters. For me personally, I would have preferred something less Jedi-centric like they did with the recent hit TV series. The Clone Wars series was dominated by Jedi. The Prequels were dominated by Jedi. Somewhat less so the sequels were dominated by Jedi. How about taking a break from that for something new?

For better or worse, Jedi and lightsabers are some of the most iconic elements of the franchise. And since this is an era where there's no stormtroopers (another iconic element), that kind of cuts down on what tools they have to quickly draw audiences in and say "this is Star Wars". It's about the same level as having a mainstream Star Trek series that doesn't on some level involve the Federation or Starfleet. Besides, not everyone is burned out on Jedi as leading characters; they may not be your cup of tie for various reasons, but I'd be surprised if there's not a sizeable portion of the younger fanbase (particularly the teens and twentysomethings) that are chomping at the bit for more stories featuring Jedi.

That said, it's likely that once the initial books/comics are out they'll start branching out more into other character types. Han Solo, Boba Fett, and The Mandalorian all reflect aspects of the setting that don't feature a Jedi protagonist.

1 hour ago, Sturn said:

Is my first impression shared by anyone? My first thought was, "More Jedi?".

New, fresh timeline and it looks like it's going to be dominated by Jedi characters. For me personally, I would have preferred something less Jedi-centric like they did with the recent hit TV series. The Clone Wars series was dominated by Jedi. The Prequels were dominated by Jedi. Somewhat less so the sequels were dominated by Jedi. How about taking a break from that for something new?

I love the fact they are jumping to a new era. I just hope that it isn't just about Jedi doing their usual great things. Before someone screams about Jedi being focal or it's not Star Wars, take a look at Episode IV and the Mandalorian. The Force is obviously involved in both, but the stories weren't dominated by Jedi and the Force. It was just a part of the story. Compare to the Clone Wars or the Prequels in which it's all about the Jedi. There's a huge difference for me.

So, I hope this new era includes central, primary characters, with just as much screen time, who are not Jedi. It completely does not look that way though with the break down of plots and the three characters in the OP artwork. It seems more like, let's take what we've already seen in Prequels/Clone Wars and add some Arthurian/Western to it and call it new? I worry it's just going to be more of the Clone Wars' Jedi on Missions with No Support! ....a couple centuries ago.

I'm hoping the Vikings in Spaaaccccce!!!!! includes some great characters who actually become primary, good guys? That could save it a bit.

im hoping for more balance. Because I like Jedi but I think they should have significant non force users in the story as well.

To me the perfact Ensemble is a scoundrel type a jedi a political type and a soldier type. You know like SWTOR...