10 minutes ago, KCDodger said:

Oh please. Nine times out of ten an asteroid is your fault. Now if rocks start chasing you, call me back.

10 minutes ago, DarthSempai said:

Is two force to strong for him? Maybe. Thoughts?

Is there any ship that combines 3Agi + White Evade + Force + Mod Slot? The Stealth 3+1 with Force/Focus + Evade seems like something they've been deliberately avoiding in 2.0.

Which does make me a little sad, as Stealth Device was my go-to on Interceptors and x7 Defenders in 1.0 (but I absolutely understand why they did it).

12 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

.Not getting to spend a focus or evade 1 turn thanks to bad positioning is not "losing agency;" it's 1 bad turn.

We all know that it's not simply one bad turn. On the presumption that Carnor is I5 and he can use his ability every round, it is not difficult for an interceptor to end up at range 1 of a ship for multiple consecutive turns. Again, making presumptions its not like this impacts one ship, it impacts multiple ships which in turn means the utility on his ability also becomes more and more valuable.

I hesitate to call it bad positioning where the range 1 bad positions end point is entirely unknown and can be altered by different combinations of boosts and barrel roll. Again, it's not like there is one fixed place you are trying to avoid at all costs, you don't know where the bad spot is, and the Imperial player can respond and alter the location based upon his use of actions.

1 hour ago, KCDodger said:

Oh yeah, we love pilots that take away player agency around here.

18 minutes ago, Ebak said:

We all know that it's not simply one bad turn. On the presumption that Carnor is I5 and he can use his ability every round, it is not difficult for an interceptor to end up at range 1 of a ship for multiple consecutive turns. Again, making presumptions its not like this impacts one ship, it impacts multiple ships which in turn means the utility on his ability also becomes more and more valuable.

I hesitate to call it bad positioning where the range 1 bad positions end point is entirely unknown and can be altered by different combinations of boosts and barrel roll. Again, it's not like there is one fixed place you are trying to avoid at all costs, you don't know where the bad spot is, and the Imperial player can respond and alter the location based upon his use of actions.

Ok, fair enough, I accept the Drama Queen tiara for today.

OTOH, Carnor Lite would not be a bad idea to get some Squint Aces back.

1 minute ago, Darth Meanie said:

OTOH, Carnor Lite would not be a bad idea to get some Squint Aces back.

On that we can agree. I don't think introducing Carnor would be a bad idea, but if he is released, he either needs to be I3 as he is so he impacts lower generics but less so aces. Even then I am hesitant.

I feel the better way would be to limit his ability, bullseye is a bit too restrictive. I do think he should impact force and focus but the player can do something to ignore the effect, but the effect has to be meaningful, like a damage card or taking a strain or deplete token.

I love Carnor Jax because he was in my highest rank list! My only top 8 showing at a pretty big regional

Now, looking at 1e Carnor Jax in 2e terms...

I think I agree with those who said above that a straight across port would be too much, but there's some good ideas floating up there. Ember is a decent 2e reimagining, but it could be closer. Could go single charge based and triggered off a ship activation, or multiple (3?) non-recurring charges, or multi (2-3) recurring charge and spend all charges to block everyone's tokens at r0-1 for a round, or force based spend 2 (which is thematic since he is a force user). There are ways to bring a version of his ability in line with 2e.

I also saw a suggestion above that he could block spending force, which is what I thought his 1e ability was supposed to represent. So maybe make him a force user with the ability to spend his force to block/drain enemy force pool. That would be a direct counter to a game mechanic that some people like to complain is too powerful

1 minute ago, nitrobenz said:

I also saw a suggestion above that he could block spending force, which is what I thought his 1e ability was supposed to represent. So maybe make him a force user with the ability to spend his force to block/drain enemy force pool. That would be a direct counter to a game mechanic that some people like to complain is too powerful

Nice idea for flavour, but unfortunately it makes his ability useless unless your opponent has a force user. Which is why it should at least impact both focus and force, in the same way Leia can either allow someone to recover a force charge, or gain a focus token.

27 minutes ago, Subhntr said:

Is there any ship that combines 3Agi + White Evade + Force + Mod Slot? The Stealth 3+1 with Force/Focus + Evade seems like something they've been deliberately avoiding in 2.0.

That's a decent argument against force for Carnor (or Second Sister for that matter) but you are forgetting that slots, including mod, don't have to be the same across all pilots for a given ship. Leebo has never recovered from losing his crew slot, I see no reason they couldn't just remove all mod slots from Force powered interceptors.

come on FFG Ciena Ree in a Tie fighter and an interceptor

2 minutes ago, Ebak said:

Nice idea for flavour, but unfortunately it makes his ability useless unless your opponent has a force user. Which is why it should at least impact both focus and force, in the same way Leia can either allow someone to recover a force charge, or gain a focus token.

It's a basis for an idea. Maybe at the start of engagement spend 2 force to choose a ship at 0-1 and for that round that ship cannot spend focus or force for the default effect?

22 minutes ago, Ebak said:

Nice idea for flavour, but unfortunately it makes his ability useless unless your opponent has a force user. Which is why it should at least impact both focus and force, in the same way Leia can either allow someone to recover a force charge, or gain a focus token.

An I5 is never useless.

10 minutes ago, nitrobenz said:

It's a basis for an idea. Maybe at the start of engagement spend 2 force to choose a ship at 0-1 and for that round that ship cannot spend focus or force for the default effect?

Why not make is just Front Arc only??

Honestly, I would think the best option is leave it powerful, but add charges. He's killer for 2-3 times, then he's tired. It puts the agency back on the attacking player to decide the right time to Jax you.

1 minute ago, Darth Meanie said:

Why not make is just Front Arc only??

Honestly, I would think the best option is leave it powerful, but add charges. He's killer for 2-3 times, then he's tired. It puts the agency back on the attacking player to decide the right time to Jax you.

I like this. Like Soontir it forces the interceptor to be aggressive.

What if he was I4 and his ability cost was a stress at the start of Engagement? That way he could retain his mod slot and not become unkillable Stealth+Force+Evade, and the user would have to choose between it and Autothrusters?

1 minute ago, Darth Meanie said:

W hy not make is just Front Arc only??

Doesn't that just make him Imperial Teroch with fewer steps?

Really though, with the earlier idea to spend his force to block force at close ranges, would it be so bad if he essentially had to trade away his force for the ability to block enemy force? Against Jedi he's a no-force disruptor, against everyone else he's a force user with a blank ability.

And as DarthMeanie said, i5 alone is always good.

4 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

Okay, that's actually funny.

The biggest, gaping, obvious holes in the conversion IMHO was no I5 A-wing or Interceptor.

In my little homebrew for the magnaguard starfighter, the way I made them 'counter' the force was to mess with focus results. Just throwin that out there

Now that Ember exists, we won't see Carnor, not with his old ability at least.

He could spend one force (or recurring charge) to prevent an enemy from spending a token/force. 2 force/charges on Jax. That way he can shoot and defend once without any mods applying against him

7 minutes ago, Amc879 said:

He could spend one force (or recurring charge) to prevent an enemy from spending a token/force. 2 force/charges on Jax. That way he can shoot and defend once without any mods applying against him

Would having a force and a charge be too clunky? He could spend either for the desired affect. 2 force plus 2 mod slots could make him crazy defensible, so I understand why people don’t want to go that path.

6 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

By the Force, what is that thing?

8 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:

*Still not Carnor*

You get Ember into an Imperial list and I will call you a cheater 😉

Ember is nothing like Carnor, so many caveats to get the ability to work at a less than impressive Initiative.

my point is that Ember feels like a redesigned, "fair" Carnor... first edition had so many problems that things that were below the power curve are still very problematic when reintroduced to second edition (see: Boba Fett)

It's not that bad.

Carnor Jax is very iconic for this game, and he would have 2 force max. Making his ability read something of the like of "At the start of the Engagement Phase, you may choose an enemy ship at range 1. If you do, when defending or performing an attack that ship can't modify EYEBALL results" sounds much better, focused in one ship instead of everyone and avoiding what would be a too general effect. Also, he could be Pilot Skill 4, but 5 sounds fair.

Come on, we deal with Soontir, and he has 3,5 actions monsters and a PS6, Carnor can't be worse and will probably cost even more.

EDIT: Clarity, copying Padme's and Teroch's text format