55 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Interesting stuff, guys!

So every time I go to build an Onager list, I feel inexorably drawn to the Testbed. The process goes like this:

I’ve flown the Testbed, and it was good. I definitely see the potential upside of the OSD, but for 14 less points, and the ability to make better use of the (in my opinion) better of the two Superweapons (OBPCs have better range and are cheaper, AND the OTB has more red dice to use with it at extreme range... and neither of the crit effects are amazing, though they’re both ok... kind of a wash), I really haven’t yet been able to talk myself into springing for the OSD.

Yet most of the builds I’ve seen here are using the OSD. What do you guys make of that? Talk me into the OSD.

Well, let’s go ahead and look at why would like a OSD. Let me tell ya the testbed it’s the cheaper version it’s like a Chevy Aveo compared to a Honda a Accord both will get you where you need to go but the OSD does it in style with turbo laser slot. So you can add dice you can play with them you even buy an xi7 upgrade package! The OSD can do so much more it can defend itself against a light MSU fleet. 4 dice out the side is not to bad. Don’t let me get started on reliability you can go 2 blacks 2 blue and 3 red which will put out more damage and more acc. Those test best your always looking for acc to block the brace or the evade. I think of the OSD as a super mc80 Liberty. So come down to Sobonis’s discount Star destroyer depo today and test drive the new OSD. We have low monthly payments plans and you get a free superweapon, so buy a OSD from me! Do it fast before the rebels shut me down!

20 hours ago, Reavern said:

It's not about what Superweapon works best on which Onager variant.

I don't believe I ever said that one superweapon was more suited to one onager variant than another.

I did suggest that Intel officer was more suited to onagers running OBPC's than onagers running SCBT's

It's my current belief that Intel officer is good on either variant (as long as you're running OBPC)

Quote

The OTB will have more difficulty rolling Accuracy's to target Brace than the OSD, which is why Intel Officer is worthwhile.

I wrote before that the OTB was completely opposite of the OSD and highly recommended using Intel Officer -- which super weapon you equip on the OTB doesn't matter.

Honestly, it's been my experience that when making a shot at extreme range there are usually multiple defense tokens you want to pin down, and even the blue dice which the OSD has over the OTB need supplementing. An evade at extreme range can make half your salvo disappear, and there's plenty of ships that have between their braces & evades 2-3 defense tokens that you don't want them to use. And that's before we factor in ECM which doesn't care how many accuracies you can dig up.

Short version: if you're planning to shoot at extreme range then you need all the help you can to get around their defense tokens.

18 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Interesting stuff, guys!

So every time I go to build an Onager list, I feel inexorably drawn to the Testbed. The process goes like this:

I’ve flown the Testbed, and it was good. I definitely see the potential upside of the OSD, but for 14 less points, and the ability to make better use of the (in my opinion) better of the two Superweapons (OBPCs have better range and are cheaper, AND the OTB has more red dice to use with it at extreme range... and neither of the crit effects are amazing, though they’re both ok... kind of a wash), I really haven’t yet been able to talk myself into springing for the OSD.

Yet most of the builds I’ve seen here are using the OSD. What do you guys make of that? Talk me into the OSD.

I think we can probably do it in one word: accuracy.

The OSD (as long as you can get at least blue range) will roll on average per attack almost double the number of accuracies that the OTB will roll. (Over double if you confire a blue dice in)

And although the damage ceiling is lower on the OSD, average damage is almost the same. (Only 0.25 damage less before mods)

Plus the OSD gets the turbo laser slot, and we all know how good the turbo laser upgrades are...

8 hours ago, namdoolb said:

I think we can probably do it in one word: accuracy.

It’s like you really know me. ❤️

I’ve played with and against the Testbed a couple times now, and I find myself going to great lengths to ensure accuracy. When I’m second player, Varnillian gets an accuracy. When I’m first, I give her the first one I can spare. I’ve been rolling with a Captain Jonus (and I NEVER use Captain Jonus). I’m even considering using Sensor Team(!).

Maybe the OSD will give me what I need without me spending so many points on fixing the accuracy problem.

By the way, speaking of upgrades I never use: Veteran Gunners. I always thought of them as straight awful, but in my quest to fill two weapons team slots on the Onager, I looked again, and I think I’ve played them wrong in the past. Is it possible to roll the initial pool, add dice, spend accuracy, do whatever, and THEN reroll what’s left? On reading them now, more carefully, it seems like you can roll say, four reds, hit an accuracy, add a second accuracy with Quad Turbolaser Batteries, spend one of them to block a brace or something, then reroll the four remaining dice. Right?

Yes.

14 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

It’s like you really know me. ❤️

I’ve played with and against the Testbed a couple times now, and I find myself going to great lengths to ensure accuracy. When I’m second player, Varnillian gets an accuracy. When I’m first, I give her the first one I can spare. I’ve been rolling with a Captain Jonus (and I NEVER use Captain Jonus). I’m even considering using Sensor Team(!).

Maybe the OSD will give me what I need without me spending so many points on fixing the accuracy problem.

By the way, speaking of upgrades I never use: Veteran Gunners. I always thought of them as straight awful, but in my quest to fill two weapons team slots on the Onager, I looked again, and I think I’ve played them wrong in the past. Is it possible to roll the initial pool, add dice, spend accuracy, do whatever, and THEN reroll what’s left? On reading them now, more carefully, it seems like you can roll say, four reds, hit an accuracy, add a second accuracy with Quad Turbolaser Batteries, spend one of them to block a brace or something, then reroll the four remaining dice. Right?

It should do.... the numbers are that an OTB has a roughly 60% chance of blanking out on accuracies, compared to just under 40% for the OSD (just on the basic dice).

With Vader as admiral, those blank-outs should happen far less frequently (I'm gonna say about 2/3-1/2 as often, depending on how many dice you want to re-roll).

I gotta admit, I usually stick h-9 turbolasers on my OSD's so I can guarantee the accuracy. (Which obviously is something the OTB can't do). Sensor team ain't bad, but I hate the part where you have to spend a dice to do it.

On veteran gunners: that is exactly right (or is at least exactly the same as my understanding of it)

Cool. I’ll try fooling with the OSD some more.

The OTB continues to impress. I tried my hand at flying the Starhawk last night, with 2 GR75s and a bunch of aces. I took first, chose Doomed Station. My opponent parked OTB Rakehell near the rift and just unloaded on the Concord. Concord and the squadrons took out Harrow & the 2 Raider-Is camping the Station. On the last attack of turn 6, Rakehell hit my 5 hull, 5 shield Hawk for ten damage, but couldn’t come up with an accuracy, so I was able to brace and survive. That, and the fact that Leia Organa was passing Engineering dials to Raymus Antilles aboard the Concord (allowing it to repair 9 shields over 3 turns) were the only reasons I survived... but the Rakehell was an absolute savage all game long.

On 2/26/2020 at 4:11 PM, namdoolb said:

I think we can probably do it in one word: accuracy.

The OSD (as long as you can get at least blue range) will roll on average per attack almost double the number of accuracies that the OTB will roll. (Over double if you confire a blue dice in)

And although the damage ceiling is lower on the OSD, average damage is almost the same. (Only 0.25 damage less before mods)

Plus the OSD gets the turbo laser slot, and we all know how good the turbo laser upgrades are...

In addition, once someone closes in on the OSD it can defend itself better then the obt. The side arc is nothing to laugh at. The you do get from side arcs can be fed to gunnery Chief V for the next large attack.

4 hours ago, Sobonis01 said:

In addition, once someone closes in on the OSD it can defend itself better then the obt. The side arc is nothing to laugh at. The you do get from side arcs can be fed to gunnery Chief V for the next large attack.

Yeah, I like that the OSD is a real warship up close. I just don’t like that 14 point premium you pay for it.

I know but I think it’s worth the cost. This is my latest list after I got some feedback.

OSD And Support Fleet. (381/400)
Empire

Commander: Darth Vader

Objectives: Surprise Attack, Contested Outpost, Solar Corona

[flagship] Onager-class Star Destroyer (110)
- Darth Vader (36)
- Cataclysm (5)
- Intel Officer (7)
- Orbital Bombardment Particle Cannons (5)
- XI7 Turbolasers (6)
- Gunnery Chief Varnillian (6)
= 175 total points

Gladiator I-class Star Destroyer (56)
- Demolisher (10)
- Intel Officer (7)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)
- Engine Techs (8)
= 86 total points

Raider I-class Corvette (44)
- Hondo Ohnaka (2)
- External Racks (3)
= 49 total points

Raider I-class Corvette (44)
- External Racks (3)
= 47 total points

Squadrons (24/134):
3x Tie Fighter Squadron (24)

2 hours ago, Sobonis01 said:

I know but I think it’s worth the cost. This is my latest list after I got some feedback.

OSD And Support Fleet. (381/400)
Empire

Commander: Darth Vader

Objectives: Surprise Attack, Contested Outpost, Solar Corona

[flagship] Onager-class Star Destroyer (110)
- Darth Vader (36)
- Cataclysm (5)
- Intel Officer (7)
- Orbital Bombardment Particle Cannons (5)
- XI7 Turbolasers (6)
- Gunnery Chief Varnillian (6)
= 175 total points

Gladiator I-class Star Destroyer (56)
- Demolisher (10)
- Intel Officer (7)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)
- Engine Techs (8)
= 86 total points

Raider I-class Corvette (44)
- Hondo Ohnaka (2)
- External Racks (3)
= 49 total points

Raider I-class Corvette (44)
- External Racks (3)
= 47 total points

Squadrons (24/134):
3x Tie Fighter Squadron (24)

I love this, but I don’t like that fighter screen. I’d try real hard to find six points and use Valen & Ciena. They won’t last forever, but their Scatters will make them more resilient than three basic TIEs, and they might last a couple turns and take down more than their cost in enemy fighters, too!

Also (and I’m not 100% on this one, but you might try it), I would consider dropping down to just one Raider, and using the 47 points you save to buy two 23 point Gozanti flotillas. Yes, you will lose a little firepower, but with 5 activations and a steep bid, you have an excellent chance of taking first player and last/firsting opponents all day. That increases the value of the Raider, the OSD, and especially Demolisher... last/first enables the dreaded Demolisher Triple Tap, where you shoot at long range, move in close on an already-activated opponent, give him a nasty broadside, then activate first at the top of the round and just UNLOAD with a double-arc, before running to safety. The Raider would be able to wait the opponent out, jump in close at the end of a turn, then activate first, unleash **** with ExRacks, then jet. Cataclysm could ALSO be great with a last/first.

In fact, now that I’m considering the number of ships in this list that would just LOVE to last/first an opponent, I’m thinking maybe you drop the fighter screen entirely, keep the Raiders, and just straight-up add a Gozanti? Move Hondo to it, give it a Comms Net, call it a day.

Y’know, you’ve inspired me. I think I may try something very similar, if you don’t mind!

1 hour ago, Cpt ObVus said:

I love this, but I don’t like that fighter screen. I’d try real hard to find six points and use Valen & Ciena. They won’t last forever, but their Scatters will make them more resilient than three basic TIEs, and they might last a couple turns and take down more than their cost in enemy fighters, too!

Also (and I’m not 100% on this one, but you might try it), I would consider dropping down to just one Raider, and using the 47 points you save to buy two 23 point Gozanti flotillas. Yes, you will lose a little firepower, but with 5 activations and a steep bid, you have an excellent chance of taking first player and last/firsting opponents all day. That increases the value of the Raider, the OSD, and especially Demolisher... last/first enables the dreaded Demolisher Triple Tap, where you shoot at long range, move in close on an already-activated opponent, give him a nasty broadside, then activate first at the top of the round and just UNLOAD with a double-arc, before running to safety. The Raider would be able to wait the opponent out, jump in close at the end of a turn, then activate first, unleash **** with ExRacks, then jet. Cataclysm could ALSO be great with a last/first.

In fact, now that I’m considering the number of ships in this list that would just LOVE to last/first an opponent, I’m thinking maybe you drop the fighter screen entirely, keep the Raiders, and just straight-up add a Gozanti? Move Hondo to it, give it a Comms Net, call it a day.

Y’know, you’ve inspired me. I think I may try something very similar, if you don’t mind!

Feel free to try it. I had valan and Ciena in my list before but I decided to remove them to get a few points for cataclysm and Hondo. I could see dumping the CAP for a flotilla, I am not a fan of dropping a raider for a flotilla. As I love the raiders and I don’t see the benefit in losing a big damage hit and fighter killer for a token passer. However, the flotilla could be nice to feed the OSD.

something like this could be fun

OSD And 5 Activations. (384/400)
Empire

Commander: Darth Vader

Objectives: Contested Outpost, Solar Corona, Advanced Gunnery

[flagship] Onager-class Star Destroyer (110)
- Darth Vader (36)
- Cataclysm (5)
- Intel Officer (7)
- Orbital Bombardment Particle Cannons (5)
- XI7 Turbolasers (6)
- Gunnery Chief Varnillian (6)
= 175 total points

Gladiator I-class Star Destroyer (56)
- Demolisher (10)
- Intel Officer (7)
- Assault Concussion Missiles (7)
- Engine Techs (8)
= 88 total points

Raider I-class Corvette (44)
- External Racks (3)
= 47 total points

Raider I-class Corvette (44)
- External Racks (3)
= 47 total points

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23)
- Comms Net (2)
- Hondo Ohnaka (2)
= 27 total points

While we’re iterating, here’s what I tried just after looking at your original list:

Vader/OSD LIFO (Last In, First Onager) (384/400)
Empire - Author: Cpt ObVus

Commander: Darth Vader

[flagship] Onager-class Star Destroyer (110)
- Darth Vader (36)
- Intel Officer (7)
- Superheavy Composite Beam Turbolasers (7)
- H9 Turbolasers (8)
- Weapons Battery Techs (5)
= 173 total points

Gladiator I-class Star Destroyer (56)
- Demolisher (10)
- Intel Officer (7)
- Assault Concussion Missiles (7)
- Engine Techs (8)
= 88 total points

Raider I-class Corvette (44)
- Corvus (2)
- External Racks (3)
= 49 total points

Raider I-class Corvette (44)
- External Racks (3)
= 47 total points

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23)
- Comms Net (2)
- Hondo Ohnaka (2)
= 27 total points

I really want to find room for Gunnery Chief Varnillian. Maybe I could drop the H9s? I like Weapons Battery Techs with the SCBTs (an experiment; I’m typically an OBPC kinda guy). Rather than try to drill damage through with a APTs and XI7s, I wanted to see what the SCBTs could do if I were also turbo-burning their shields with ACMs from Demolisher. I was tempted to try and make one of the Raiders into a Raider-II and give it HIEs, but that’s a lot more expensive.

Another option: drop H9s & the ExRacks on the Raiders, give them both ACMs?

2 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

While we’re iterating, here’s what I tried just after looking at your original list:

Vader/OSD LIFO (Last In, First Onager) (384/400)
Empire - Author: Cpt ObVus

Commander: Darth Vader

[flagship] Onager-class Star Destroyer (110)
- Darth Vader (36)
- Intel Officer (7)
- Superheavy Composite Beam Turbolasers (7)
- H9 Turbolasers (8)
- Weapons Battery Techs (5)
= 173 total points

Gladiator I-class Star Destroyer (56)
- Demolisher (10)
- Intel Officer (7)
- Assault Concussion Missiles (7)
- Engine Techs (8)
= 88 total points

Raider I-class Corvette (44)
- Corvus (2)
- External Racks (3)
= 49 total points

Raider I-class Corvette (44)
- External Racks (3)
= 47 total points

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23)
- Comms Net (2)
- Hondo Ohnaka (2)
= 27 total points

I really want to find room for Gunnery Chief Varnillian. Maybe I could drop the H9s? I like Weapons Battery Techs with the SCBTs (an experiment; I’m typically an OBPC kinda guy). Rather than try to drill damage through with a APTs and XI7s, I wanted to see what the SCBTs could do if I were also turbo-burning their shields with ACMs from Demolisher. I was tempted to try and make one of the Raiders into a Raider-II and give it HIEs, but that’s a lot more expensive.

Another option: drop H9s & the ExRacks on the Raiders, give them both ACMs?

Only thing I don’t like about acm on the raiders is the fact raiders don’t seem to live that long, so a lot of times they only get 1 or 2 attacks in. So racks seems better as you go in burst damage and die. I would drop H9 and go linked turbo laser or quad battery Turrets and add gunnery V.

5 minutes ago, Sobonis01 said:

Only thing I don’t like about acm on the raiders is the fact raiders don’t seem to live that long, so a lot of times they only get 1 or 2 attacks in. So racks seems better as you go in burst damage and die. I would drop H9 and go linked turbo laser or quad battery Turrets and add gunnery V.

What do I need LTTs for? I have Vader! And I’m not worried about squadrons; if they’ve gotten their bombers to my Onager before I’ve blown away their carriers, I’ve probably already lost.

QBTs are a modification, so I can’t use them if I want a superweapon (and obviously, I do). If you mean Quad Turbolaser Batteries, I have no way to guarantee red accuracy.

I hear you on the Raiders regarding ACM, but the plan would be to suicide them in anyway, blow away adjacent shields, let Demo do the same, and really put the hurt on with SCBTs once they have nowhere else to take the damage.

6 minutes ago, Cpt ObVus said:

What do I need LTTs for? I have Vader! And I’m not worried about squadrons; if they’ve gotten their bombers to my Onager before I’ve blown away their carriers, I’ve probably already lost.

QBTs are a modification, so I can’t use them if I want a superweapon (and obviously, I do). If you mean Quad Turbolaser Batteries, I have no way to guarantee red accuracy.

I hear you on the Raiders regarding ACM, but the plan would be to suicide them in anyway, blow away adjacent shields, let Demo do the same, and really put the hurt on with SCBTs once they have nowhere else to take the damage.

Epic fail on my part about the qtb and Ltt. Finding a good turbo laser for the OSD and the scbt is hard and h9 cost a good deal of points. Which is why I think the obpc with xi7 a better choice overall. I like to run the raiders cheap and with racks and with a con fire you get 5 black dice with this list. External racks can’t be stopped by DCO, which runs rampant in my local meta. (Fun story I was able to one shot a mc 30 with racks once.) Also you can external racks a squadron if you really need to.

1 hour ago, Sobonis01 said:

Epic fail on my part about the qtb and Ltt. Finding a good turbo laser for the OSD and the scbt is hard and h9 cost a good deal of points. Which is why I think the obpc with xi7 a better choice overall. I like to run the raiders cheap and with racks and with a con fire you get 5 black dice with this list. External racks can’t be stopped by DCO, which runs rampant in my local meta. (Fun story I was able to one shot a mc 30 with racks once.) Also you can external racks a squadron if you really need to.

Sure, the Racks are great, I’ve used them a ton. I’m usually right with you... I just feel like it might be worth a try here.

DCO is popular where you are? Here we never see it except on SSDs, and nobody runs those, because either we suck at using them, or we’re REALLY GOOD at killing them (I like to think it’s the latter).

1 hour ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Sure, the Racks are great, I’ve used them a ton. I’m usually right with you... I just feel like it might be worth a try here.

DCO is popular where you are? Here we never see it except on SSDs, and nobody runs those, because either we suck at using them, or we’re REALLY GOOD at killing them (I like to think it’s the latter).

Oh ya DCO on the star hawk or the ssd is huge. I see a few starhawk list which I got wiped with. We have one in the RITR campaign, as we made the starting points 250 to cap at 300. I went OSD and ISD2 and have been doing shockingly well. Acm are always a good choice if you can make them work use them! I am wondering if I need Hondo or if I can just use the flotilla to pass the token on turn one to the OSD. Maybe save some points and run OE on the demo to make sure I get that crit.

4 hours ago, Sobonis01 said:

I am wondering if I need Hondo or if I can just use the flotilla to pass the token on turn one to the OSD. Maybe save some points and run OE on the demo to make sure I get that crit.

If you want to take the first turn Cataclysm shot, there’s really no way around it; you need Hondo, or Grand Moff Tarkin. The timing doesn’t work on Comms Net, it happens too late. That said, I’m not certain you need to throw those four reds to have a solid list (I’m gonna forego it in order to try the SCBTs).

I have, however, run the first-turn shot Onager, and it’s awesome.

15 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

While we’re iterating, here’s what I tried just after looking at your original list:

Vader/OSD LIFO (Last In, First Onager) (384/400)
Empire - Author: Cpt ObVus

Commander: Darth Vader

[flagship] Onager-class Star Destroyer (110)
- Darth Vader (36)
- Intel Officer (7)
- Superheavy Composite Beam Turbolasers (7)
- H9 Turbolasers (8)
- Weapons Battery Techs (5)
= 173 total points

Gladiator I-class Star Destroyer (56)
- Demolisher (10)
- Intel Officer (7)
- Assault Concussion Missiles (7)
- Engine Techs (8)
= 88 total points

Raider I-class Corvette (44)
- Corvus (2)
- External Racks (3)
= 49 total points

Raider I-class Corvette (44)
- External Racks (3)
= 47 total points

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23)
- Comms Net (2)
- Hondo Ohnaka (2)
= 27 total points

I really want to find room for Gunnery Chief Varnillian. Maybe I could drop the H9s? I like Weapons Battery Techs with the SCBTs (an experiment; I’m typically an OBPC kinda guy). Rather than try to drill damage through with a APTs and XI7s, I wanted to see what the SCBTs could do if I were also turbo-burning their shields with ACMs from Demolisher. I was tempted to try and make one of the Raiders into a Raider-II and give it HIEs, but that’s a lot more expensive.

Another option: drop H9s & the ExRacks on the Raiders, give them both ACMs?

I'm gonna throw my money on the HiE raider (metaphorically speaking).

This list has so many close up brawlers, I think it might benefit from a ship that can operate at longer ranges; give you a little more play in the activation order

6 hours ago, namdoolb said:

I'm gonna throw my money on the HiE raider (metaphorically speaking).

This list has so many close up brawlers, I think it might benefit from a ship that can operate at longer ranges; give you a little more play in the activation order

I know, I want the Raider-II in there too... But that’s 48 for the ship, 9 for HIE, 3 for DCaps. 60 points, and that’s if I leave all my rolling for blue crits to Vader and don’t take Weapons Battery Techs. Part of the strength here is the strong bid; I really don’t want to go less than 15 points.

What can I cut?

I don’t think a raider II is worth it. You have the greatest long range sniper after all.

Nice lookin’ fleet!

i do like the idea of SCBTs, ACMs, and HIEs together... I’ll have to think on this.

On 2/29/2020 at 1:20 PM, Cpt ObVus said:

Vader/OSD LIFO (Last In, First Onager) (384/400)
Empire - Author: Cpt ObVus

Commander: Darth Vader

[flagship] Onager-class Star Destroyer (110)
- Darth Vader (36)
- Intel Officer (7)
- Superheavy Composite Beam Turbolasers (7)
- H9 Turbolasers (8)
- Weapons Battery Techs (5)
= 173 total points

Gladiator I-class Star Destroyer (56)
- Demolisher (10)
- Intel Officer (7)
- Assault Concussion Missiles (7)
- Engine Techs (8)
= 88 total points

Raider I-class Corvette (44)
- Corvus (2)
- External Racks (3)
= 49 total points

Raider I-class Corvette (44)
- External Racks (3)
= 47 total points

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23)
- Comms Net (2)
- Hondo Ohnaka (2)
= 27 total points

So I ran this (with Rakehell instead of WBTechs) twice last night against an Agate Unity Starhawk-II, two GR75s, and an angrier B-Wing cloud than I’ve seen in years (pro tip: Wedge Antilles (Officer) is INSANE with generic B-Wings). Shara, Tycho, & Norra were There too.

This is why I don’t run squadronless lists.

First game, I chose his Contested Outpost, Rejecting Advanced Gunnery and Doomed Station. I knew it was going to be a damage race, so I carefully set my brawlers up on turns 1 and 2, to all pounce simultaneously on turn 3. The Onager got in a couple good hits on Unity turns 2 & 3; even with the SCBTs, it was easily able to fire very early in the game.

His B-Wings were coming on fast; it was either strike with knives out on turn 3, or he was just going to pick me apart. As it was, he killed Corvus. But he was still nervous about the Demolisher and the other Raider, and he decided to drop Unity and my Raider to zero, not realizing that Demo was close enough to jump him and triple tap. I believe his thinking was that if he stopped the already-activated Raider cold, he’d have me forked; trying to get the Raider to the target before it got killed would mean the fighters would swarm and kill Demolisher, and trying to save Demolisher by moving closer would mean another dead Raider, and it might get Demo killed anyway. However, he slightly misjudged how far away Demo was, and it cost him big. I leapt at the Unity while it hung motionless, docked with the Outpost, and Demolisher did what Demolisher does, evaporating a Starhawk MkII during the first activation of turn 3 (I was pretty proud of that).

It happened so fast, my friend decided his wife wouldn’t mind too much if we ran it back, so for game two, I chose Doomed Station (wanting you dump as many obstacles as possible straight into the rift as fast as I could). It was definitely a worse choice. Even the Starhawk can catch the station easily enough, pin it with squads/flotillas to hold it in place, and park on it, and begin to collect points from a fully-functioning station that also gives it some obstruction.

Deployment was very similar to game 1, but I knew he wasn’t going to drop to zero this time; I’d have to make better use of my superweapon, so I deployed a bit closer, to get those blues into the mix sooner. He had a newfound respect for Demolisher, and the fighters ignored the Raiders as they swarmed the GSD and killed it before it could really do much; I think it got one good broadside into Unity before it blew, but couldn’t seem to find the critical hit for ACMs.

This time the Raiders would have to make up for Demo’s loss, hopefully before the Onager got ripped apart by the oncoming bomber cloud.

In the end, my opponent managed to maneuver his GR75s into blocking positions for the Raiders which had flanked him on either side. I chose to attack with my right-hand Raider, because it was already slightly damaged, and I didn’t want to lose it before it did nothing... wrong choice. I should have been paying more attention to target priority, and killing the other GR75 (the one with Bomber Command Center).

Lesson learned. His fighters were all over the OSD. His attacks didn’t need much help, but when he did use BCC, it was blank —> hit/crit, every time. The OSD was left burning, limping on zero defense tokens and three hull. It managed one final Ignition at Unity (who, to be fair, finished on zero shields and less than half hull, so we’d done okay!), but died to Salvo.

I still had the Raiders left, but both were in lousy shape, having taken some Blinded Gunners and Depowered Armament-type crits, and as Lord Vader had evacuated the crumbling Onager and left the field, their attacks were anemic. One fell to Salvo, the other to a full broadside on turn 4.

Takeaways: the OSD is just not at all worth the extra 14 points, at least not in this setup, facing one big target. I would much rather have had better extreme-range guns... the only other attacks I made with it in two games were occasional flak attacks, and those didn’t help enough to have even bothered. Maybe in a setup with some squadrons and another big ship partner, I could see more value in an OSD, but it’s more of a generalist warship, whereas the OTB is a specialist. Here, teamed with other specialists like Demolisher, I would prefer to save some points and use them to upgrade and focus each ship on its primary task.

SCBTs are good. Not amazing, but they were definitely contributing. Their effect is probably a little stronger than the OBPCs, and the range hit isn’t that big a deal... against a large, slow target. OBPCs are probably better against slippery targets, because you just have a bigger, better field of fire, and the little guys are more susceptible to the edge-of-extreme range shots the OBPCs enable anyway (as long you can muster an accuracy or two).

Rakehell HATES bombers. Unless you have a plan to tie them up or kill them, leave your Rakehell title in the binder, you’ll never use it.

Finally, the old plan of “kill the carriers” doesn’t work so well against the Starhawk. It’s totally killable, but it takes a while, and a well-tuned bomber assault will wreck you fast.

On 3/6/2020 at 7:19 PM, Cpt ObVus said:

So I ran this (with Rakehell instead of WBTechs) twice last night against an Agate Unity Starhawk-II, two GR75s, and an angrier B-Wing cloud than I’ve seen in years (pro tip: Wedge Antilles (Officer) is INSANE with generic B-Wings). Shara, Tycho, & Norra were There too.

This is why I don’t run squadronless lists.

First game, I chose his Contested Outpost, Rejecting Advanced Gunnery and Doomed Station. I knew it was going to be a damage race, so I carefully set my brawlers up on turns 1 and 2, to all pounce simultaneously on turn 3. The Onager got in a couple good hits on Unity turns 2 & 3; even with the SCBTs, it was easily able to fire very early in the game.

His B-Wings were coming on fast; it was either strike with knives out on turn 3, or he was just going to pick me apart. As it was, he killed Corvus. But he was still nervous about the Demolisher and the other Raider, and he decided to drop Unity and my Raider to zero, not realizing that Demo was close enough to jump him and triple tap. I believe his thinking was that if he stopped the already-activated Raider cold, he’d have me forked; trying to get the Raider to the target before it got killed would mean the fighters would swarm and kill Demolisher, and trying to save Demolisher by moving closer would mean another dead Raider, and it might get Demo killed anyway. However, he slightly misjudged how far away Demo was, and it cost him big. I leapt at the Unity while it hung motionless, docked with the Outpost, and Demolisher did what Demolisher does, evaporating a Starhawk MkII during the first activation of turn 3 (I was pretty proud of that).

It happened so fast, my friend decided his wife wouldn’t mind too much if we ran it back, so for game two, I chose Doomed Station (wanting you dump as many obstacles as possible straight into the rift as fast as I could). It was definitely a worse choice. Even the Starhawk can catch the station easily enough, pin it with squads/flotillas to hold it in place, and park on it, and begin to collect points from a fully-functioning station that also gives it some obstruction.

Deployment was very similar to game 1, but I knew he wasn’t going to drop to zero this time; I’d have to make better use of my superweapon, so I deployed a bit closer, to get those blues into the mix sooner. He had a newfound respect for Demolisher, and the fighters ignored the Raiders as they swarmed the GSD and killed it before it could really do much; I think it got one good broadside into Unity before it blew, but couldn’t seem to find the critical hit for ACMs.

This time the Raiders would have to make up for Demo’s loss, hopefully before the Onager got ripped apart by the oncoming bomber cloud.

In the end, my opponent managed to maneuver his GR75s into blocking positions for the Raiders which had flanked him on either side. I chose to attack with my right-hand Raider, because it was already slightly damaged, and I didn’t want to lose it before it did nothing... wrong choice. I should have been paying more attention to target priority, and killing the other GR75 (the one with Bomber Command Center).

Lesson learned. His fighters were all over the OSD. His attacks didn’t need much help, but when he did use BCC, it was blank —> hit/crit, every time. The OSD was left burning, limping on zero defense tokens and three hull. It managed one final Ignition at Unity (who, to be fair, finished on zero shields and less than half hull, so we’d done okay!), but died to Salvo.

I still had the Raiders left, but both were in lousy shape, having taken some Blinded Gunners and Depowered Armament-type crits, and as Lord Vader had evacuated the crumbling Onager and left the field, their attacks were anemic. One fell to Salvo, the other to a full broadside on turn 4.

Takeaways: the OSD is just not at all worth the extra 14 points, at least not in this setup, facing one big target. I would much rather have had better extreme-range guns... the only other attacks I made with it in two games were occasional flak attacks, and those didn’t help enough to have even bothered. Maybe in a setup with some squadrons and another big ship partner, I could see more value in an OSD, but it’s more of a generalist warship, whereas the OTB is a specialist. Here, teamed with other specialists like Demolisher, I would prefer to save some points and use them to upgrade and focus each ship on its primary task.

SCBTs are good. Not amazing, but they were definitely contributing. Their effect is probably a little stronger than the OBPCs, and the range hit isn’t that big a deal... against a large, slow target. OBPCs are probably better against slippery targets, because you just have a bigger, better field of fire, and the little guys are more susceptible to the edge-of-extreme range shots the OBPCs enable anyway (as long you can muster an accuracy or two).

Rakehell HATES bombers. Unless you have a plan to tie them up or kill them, leave your Rakehell title in the binder, you’ll never use it.

Finally, the old plan of “kill the carriers” doesn’t work so well against the Starhawk. It’s totally killable, but it takes a while, and a well-tuned bomber assault will wreck you fast.

I played two list this week one has no squadrons and one with bombers. I made some less them optimum moves against the bomber list but was able to pull it off. The OSD killed one ship with salvo and one with its side arc. However, I missed the ordnance expert on the raiders vs squadrons. Both games we used contested outpost, which was great as both players tried to keep ships near the station and I knew where to point the OSD. The better match to me was the one I lost was a 3 mc30 2 Cr 90 with ackbar. 2 mc 30 had gunnery team and enhanced armaments and racks... 1 had had Lando and admonition. Both Cr 90s had trcs. I came so close but I got a crit which banned me from using spent defense tokens. Then mc30 gave me a full broadside of con fire plus racks so 6 black dice 2 blue and 3 red..... Losing Vader hurt me. As I could not reroll Demos dice which went bad...

The OSD did well I think in my list but losing Vader knock the wind out of me. However, I almost killed a CR90 with a flotilla so hey!

Part of me thinks dropping Vader putting a different commander and putting on individual dice control on each ship.