So this idea came to me when I revamped an old list. My idea is the OSD be the big game hunter with intel and xi7 and Vader with scbt. Gunnery Chief V switch’s out a blank for a crit or what ever else I need then I reroll with Vader. The raiders have an officer to keep them alive at close range and have an extra source of black dice rerolls for squadrons. The two squadrons can be alphaed with the raiders if need be, hold up the the squadrons while either the raiders flak or move away. Racks for burst damage against the big ships. The GSD is the get in close and punch the other ship in the rear then flee.

The squadrons will Valen and Rea, they are not meant to live more then a turn or two.

I think this might be something that could work well.

OSD And Black Dice (394/400)
Empire

Commander: Darth Vader

Objectives: Surprise Attack, Superior Positions, Contested Outpost

[flagship] Onager-class Star Destroyer (110)
- Darth Vader (36)
- Intel Officer (7)
- XI7 Turbolasers (6)

Superheavy Composite Beam Turbolasers (7)
- Gunnery Chief Varnillian (6)
= 165 total points

Gladiator I-class Star Destroyer (56)
- Demolisher (10)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)
- Engine Techs (8)
= 79 total points

Raider I-class Corvette (44)
- Captain Brunson (5)
- External Racks (3)
- Ordnance Experts (4)
= 56 total points

Raider I-class Corvette (44)
- Iden Versio (6)
- External Racks (3)
- Ordnance Experts (4)
= 57 total points

Squadrons (30/134):
1x Valen Rudor TIE Fighter Squadron (13)
1x Ciena Ree TIE Interceptor Squadron (17)

With this many black die ships in your fleet, I think you want a sizable bid, because black dice work waaaaaaay better when you’re first player.

Also: XI-7 Turbolasers OR Superheavy Composite Beam Turbolasers. Not both. XI-7s drill damage through to the hull, and help you ignore Redirects. SCBTs lay down extra damage... and now your opponent gets to use those shields you just bypassed to absorb that extra damage! These upgrades are working at cross purposes.

If you decide you want to go for a bid (which I’d recommend), your first cut could be XI-7s. Second cut (and this is a little risky, but it gets you where you want to be) could be cutting Ordnance Experts from both Raiders. You’d then have a 20 point bid (which in my area would be extreme), and I don’t think your list is substantially weaker than it was; after all, Vader’s got you on rerolls.

Looks good!

1 hour ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Also: XI-7 Turbolasers OR Superheavy Composite Beam Turbolasers. Not both. XI-7s drill damage through to the hull, and help you ignore Redirects. SCBTs lay down extra damage... and now your opponent gets to use those shields you just bypassed to absorb that extra damage! These upgrades are working at cross purposes.

I agree. I initially made the same mistake trying to combine XI7 Turbolasers with SCBT before I discovered that the defender gets to choose the hull zones (plural!) where the special crit damage lands. Naturally the defender will choose the least harmful options for their ship, effectively giving them an unblockable Redirect for SCBT's special damage and marginalizing XI7's ability.

The XI7 vs. SCBT incongruity became a contentious issue among my friends while we were brainstorming our Wave 8 builds. We concluded that it wasn't worth the hassle and chose other Turbolaser upgrades instead. And XI7 is one of my favourite Turbolaser upgrades, so it took a lot to convince me to choose something else.

I chose Linked Turbolaser Towers instead, because: 1) Red dice are notoriously fickle, so every reroll helps; and 2) The Onager desperately needs extra Anti-Squadron firepower because squadrons can easily reach its side/rear shields and grind down its hull. 4 Anti-Squadron dice are an effective deterrence against generic squadrons, and even hero squadrons might blink and find an easier target.

And as long as we're on the topic of Turbolaser upgrade cards that are incongruous with the Onager's SCBT Superweapon, don't choose XX-9 Turbolasers either.

I think that the OBPCs are the better general-use superweapon anyway. They’re cheaper, they have the best range, and their crit effect is not bad, especially if you catch the opponent napping. They also present the threat of the turn one shot, if Cataclysm and Hondo are present, and even if you don’t do it, I’m betting many people will take pains to play around it, which is a victory in itself.

I can imagine a build where I’d try SCBTs, but it probably involves other ships carrying ACMs and HIEs, and just overwhelming the opponent with bonus damage effects. Might be worth trying, but unless you’ve got a plan to capitalize on the SCBTs, my gut says just use the OBPCs instead, even without Hondo & Cataclysm.

Does the xi7 let you block redirects for any of the OSD attacks. Or is it just useless for the special crits? My thought would be to drop the two officers on the raiders for a bid. Never drop Ordnance Experts as it lets you flak for 2 each turn on every fighter without using a token. I always thought obpc are more for the testbed as you get more long range red dice for turn one. A lot of people in my area fly MSU with evades.

5 hours ago, Sobonis01 said:

Does the xi7 let you block redirects for any of the OSD attacks. Or is it just useless for the special crits? My thought would be to drop the two officers on the raiders for a bid. Never drop Ordnance Experts as it lets you flak for 2 each turn on every fighter without using a token. I always thought obpc are more for the testbed as you get more long range red dice for turn one. A lot of people in my area fly MSU with evades.

Lots to address here. First, Redirect is useful against all of the regular attack damage dealt by an Onager, same as any other ship. But the wording on the SCBTs gives out single points of damage (1 per blue and red crit in the pool, dealt one at a time). Because this is not regular attack damage, the opponent cannot use defense tokens against it.

However, when damage is dealt to a ship, and no hull zone is specified (such as with Assault Concussion Missiles, which specifically reference the adjacent hull zones), the ship’s owner gets to choose a hull zone on the ship to take the damage. Since SCBTs deliver one damage at a time, the defender can sprinkle the damage all over the ship; with three crits in the pool, he could take 1 on the far side, then 1 on the back, then 1 on the far side again, and be done.

Now, that’s not terrible. More damage is more damage. But here’s the rub: you paid 7 points for that upgrade, and you also paid 6 points for XI7s... an upgrade specifically designed to negate shields... and your opponent is still finding a way to make use of them! Meanwhile, if you didn’t use (and pay for) XI7s, your opponent would have the option of Redirecting more damage away, yes... but he’s then using resources (shields on other zones) which he’s also depleting with SCBT damage. Either way, it’s good for you, because damage is damage, but in the second scenario, you saved yourself 6 points and a Turbolaser slot.

Really, it’s not that XI7s are *useless* combined with SCBTs, it’s just that they really aren’t *worth it*.

As for the Raiders and your bid situation: Those things get two black dice for flak. Black dice have a 75% hit rate as-is, so you’re gonna average pretty decent damage... do you really need to sacrifice a decent bid on the altar of making two small-based ships ever-so-slightly better at a job they’re only kind-of okay at to begin with?

I know people like to think of Raiders as flak boats, and yeah, they have decent flak capability, but using them as your sole anti-squad plan is, in my experience, a losing proposition... 3-4 B-Wings are gonna tear that Raider apart, then go get the ship it was supposed to protect. Expensive speed bump. Better plan: Use Valen and Ciena to delay the opponent’s fighters, get a good bid, blast the crap out of his carriers with that OSD from as far away as possible, and send your knife-fighting, black-dice-throwing, first-activation-taking close range killers in and go finish them off, then fly far away from his gimpy unaided squadrons.

Don’t dump the officers, they’re great. Dump the Ordnance Experts. Of course they make your dice more reliable, but *that’s why you’re taking Vader!* If you want to keep them? Maybe dump Vader, take a cheaper admiral (Romodi, Ozzel, Jerjerrod would all be awesome in this!), and get your bid that way.

As for the Evades v. the OSD: Sure, lots of Alliance ships have Evades. You have Intel Officer. You also have Gunnery Chief Varnillian (if you get stuck going second, give her an accuracy!). And since you’re probably going to give up XI7s, consider H9s. Or Quad Turbolaser Cannons.

21 hours ago, Sobonis01 said:

OSD And Black Dice (394/400)
Empire

Commander: Darth Vader

Objectives: Surprise Attack, Superior Positions, Contested Outpost

[flagship] Onager-class Star Destroyer (110)
- Darth Vader (36)
- Intel Officer (7)
- XI7 Turbolasers (6)
- Superheavy Composite Beam Turbolasers (7)
- Gunnery Chief Varnillian (6)
= 165 total points

Gladiator I-class Star Destroyer (56)
- Demolisher (10)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)
- Engine Techs (8)
= 79 total points

Raider I-class Corvette (44)
- Captain Brunson (5)
- External Racks (3)
- Ordnance Experts (4)
= 56 total points

Raider I-class Corvette (44)
- Iden Versio (6)
- External Racks (3)
- Ordnance Experts (4)
= 57 total points

Squadrons (30/134):
1x Valen Rudor TIE Fighter Squadron (13)
1x Ciena Ree TIE Interceptor Squadron (17)

My recent experiences with a Vader Onager build compels me to recommend not to put Intel Officer on the OSD. I know that sounds strange and against META, but let me explain:

The OSD's first Special Battery shot will usually be at long range of the Ignition token (unless the target ship is charging in at speed 3-4) so you'll only be rolling 3 red dice. If the target ship has a Brace and 2 Redirects, you'll obviously IO the Brace; if the target has a Brace and one Redirect, it's your discretion, but probably Brace; if the target has 2 Braces , IO is useless without Accuracy dice. Whatever defense token you IO, the defender won't discard the token to use its ability because the odds of 3 red dice inflicting more than 3 hits are relatively low -- even with Vader rerolls and Varnillian. (I know, I've used the same setup on the OSD, plus Linked Turbolaser Towers for the extra red reroll.) SCBT's Crit special damage doesn't matter because defense tokens are no help and the defender gets to spread out the damage wherever they choose. Therefore, Intel Officer enabled you to land 3 hits instead of 2 hits. B.F.D .

For the OSD's second Special Battery shot, the target will probably be at medium range of the Ignition token (close range is possible, but for this example, it's medium range), so you'll be rolling 3 red and 2 blue dice. You'll probably use IO on the target's Brace, if you roll blue Accuracy's you can block Redirects, so you might inflict 3-5 hits. But let's acknowledge Varnillian's ability and say she swapped in a red Double-Hit to increase the attack to 4-6 hits. Therefore, Intel Officer enabled you to land 4-6 hits instead of 2-3, making it worthwhile. But if it was 5-6 hits, the defender might choose to discard Brace and use it, reducing the damage to 3 hits. In that scenario, Intel Officer didn't help for that attack, IO just weakened the enemy ship's defense for future Rounds. If you rolled any Blue Accuracy's, you could Block the defender's Brace so they can't use and discard it, in which case IO did nothing.

For the OSD's third Special Battery shot, the target should be at close range of the Ignition token now, so you'll be rolling the Special Battery's full dice pool: 3 reds, 2 blues, and 2 blacks. This is the attack that really matters. For SCBT, the "perfect roll" would be 2 red Double-Hits, 1 red Crit, 2 blue Crits, and 2 black Hit-Crits; plus 3 hits for special Crits. By this point, whatever special Crit damage the defender has been spreading to the other hull zones has probably depleted the target ship's side and rear shields, rendering Redirects useless and they can't spread the damage anymore; which means that it's going to the hull this Round. So the perfect roll could inflict 15 damage! Realistically, it'll be 7-12 hits. This is what Brace was made for. Forget Intel Officer, the defender is Bracing . The only way they're not Bracing is if the attacker rolled a blue Accuracy and blocked the Brace, which means IO did nothing !

If the defender discarded Brace for the OSD's second Special Battery shot, they couldn't Brace the third shot (unless the ship was a Liberty or SSD, had Walex Blissex, or Agate as Commander) and the ship will most likely be destroyed.

If the defender didn't Brace for the OSD's second SB shot, they would absolutely Brace the third shot (if they could) and the ship might survive.

It's possible the OSD could get a fourth SB shot at the target ship, but virtually any damage from any weapons arc will finish it off -- unless it's an SSD.

As you can see, Intel Officer didn't provide much help in this scenario because with 2 blue dice and lots of rerolls, odds are good that you will get an Accuracy to block the defender's Brace. IMO that's better than Intel Officer's ability to force the defender to discard that defense token.

If you were running the Onager Testbed instead, that's a completely different scenario. You couldn't count on red Accuracy's, even with Vader and Varnillian, so Intel Officer would be a wise choice to stop Braces, one way or the other.

For the Onager SD, I don't believe Intel Officer is worthwhile -- those 7 points will be squandered. For my Vader Onager build, I chose Strategic Adviser instead for activation advantage, so I could stall, activate the OSD last, and activate first the next round.

If you want to put Intel Officer on a ship, I'd put it on the Gladiator (like the META advises) because it rolls red and black dice (like an Onager Testbed). IO is perfect for Demolisher's second attack, when it'll be up close and personal, roll 4 black dice from its side arc, and earn its namesake.

That's just my opinion regarding the Onager Star Destroyer and Intel Officer. Do as you please.

4 hours ago, Reavern said:

My recent experiences with a Vader Onager build compels me to recommend not to put Intel Officer on the OSD. I know that sounds strange and against META, but let me explain:

The OSD's first Special Battery shot will usually be at long range of the Ignition token (unless the target ship is charging in at speed 3-4) so you'll only be rolling 3 red dice. If the target ship has a Brace and 2 Redirects, you'll obviously IO the Brace; if the target has a Brace and one Redirect, it's your discretion, but probably Brace; if the target has 2 Braces , IO is useless without Accuracy dice. Whatever defense token you IO, the defender won't discard the token to use its ability because the odds of 3 red dice inflicting more than 3 hits are relatively low -- even with Vader rerolls and Varnillian. (I know, I've used the same setup on the OSD, plus Linked Turbolaser Towers for the extra red reroll.) SCBT's Crit special damage doesn't matter because defense tokens are no help and the defender gets to spread out the damage wherever they choose. Therefore, Intel Officer enabled you to land 3 hits instead of 2 hits. B.F.D .

For the OSD's second Special Battery shot, the target will probably be at medium range of the Ignition token (close range is possible, but for this example, it's medium range), so you'll be rolling 3 red and 2 blue dice. You'll probably use IO on the target's Brace, if you roll blue Accuracy's you can block Redirects, so you might inflict 3-5 hits. But let's acknowledge Varnillian's ability and say she swapped in a red Double-Hit to increase the attack to 4-6 hits. Therefore, Intel Officer enabled you to land 4-6 hits instead of 2-3, making it worthwhile. But if it was 5-6 hits, the defender might choose to discard Brace and use it, reducing the damage to 3 hits. In that scenario, Intel Officer didn't help for that attack, IO just weakened the enemy ship's defense for future Rounds. If you rolled any Blue Accuracy's, you could Block the defender's Brace so they can't use and discard it, in which case IO did nothing.

For the OSD's third Special Battery shot, the target should be at close range of the Ignition token now, so you'll be rolling the Special Battery's full dice pool: 3 reds, 2 blues, and 2 blacks. This is the attack that really matters. For SCBT, the "perfect roll" would be 2 red Double-Hits, 1 red Crit, 2 blue Crits, and 2 black Hit-Crits; plus 3 hits for special Crits. By this point, whatever special Crit damage the defender has been spreading to the other hull zones has probably depleted the target ship's side and rear shields, rendering Redirects useless and they can't spread the damage anymore; which means that it's going to the hull this Round. So the perfect roll could inflict 15 damage! Realistically, it'll be 7-12 hits. This is what Brace was made for. Forget Intel Officer, the defender is Bracing . The only way they're not Bracing is if the attacker rolled a blue Accuracy and blocked the Brace, which means IO did nothing !

If the defender discarded Brace for the OSD's second Special Battery shot, they couldn't Brace the third shot (unless the ship was a Liberty or SSD, had Walex Blissex, or Agate as Commander) and the ship will most likely be destroyed.

If the defender didn't Brace for the OSD's second SB shot, they would absolutely Brace the third shot (if they could) and the ship might survive.

It's possible the OSD could get a fourth SB shot at the target ship, but virtually any damage from any weapons arc will finish it off -- unless it's an SSD.

As you can see, Intel Officer didn't provide much help in this scenario because with 2 blue dice and lots of rerolls, odds are good that you will get an Accuracy to block the defender's Brace. IMO that's better than Intel Officer's ability to force the defender to discard that defense token.

If you were running the Onager Testbed instead, that's a completely different scenario. You couldn't count on red Accuracy's, even with Vader and Varnillian, so Intel Officer would be a wise choice to stop Braces, one way or the other.

For the Onager SD, I don't believe Intel Officer is worthwhile -- those 7 points will be squandered. For my Vader Onager build, I chose Strategic Adviser instead for activation advantage, so I could stall, activate the OSD last, and activate first the next round.

If you want to put Intel Officer on a ship, I'd put it on the Gladiator (like the META advises) because it rolls red and black dice (like an Onager Testbed). IO is perfect for Demolisher's second attack, when it'll be up close and personal, roll 4 black dice from its side arc, and earn its namesake.

That's just my opinion regarding the Onager Star Destroyer and Intel Officer. Do as you please.

Thank you, I tried to be more deliberate when put this this together. I think I can swap I tell officer and throw Strategic officer on the OSD. I like the ix7 on the OSD, but I see the fact that I could pick another upgrade and it might do better. I was trying to find a away to put more pressure on the brace token thus intel officer. But the intel officer might be better off on the gsd. Also, with the raiders and 2 rerolls plus external racks and a con fire you can do massive burst damage, and flak. Plus with Vader you can hope for a double acc to lock down brace and redirect. I pulled that off on a full health mc30 a few games and they melted.

1 hour ago, Sobonis01 said:

Thank you, I tried to be more deliberate when put this this together. I think I can swap I tell officer and throw Strategic officer on the OSD. I like the ix7 on the OSD, but I see the fact that I could pick another upgrade and it might do better. I was trying to find a away to put more pressure on the brace token thus intel officer. But the intel officer might be better off on the gsd. Also, with the raiders and 2 rerolls plus external racks and a con fire you can do massive burst damage, and flak. Plus with Vader you can hope for a double acc to lock down brace and redirect. I pulled that off on a full health mc30 a few games and they melted.

I think you’re still over-valuing the Ordnance Experts on the Raiders. They aren’t going to get you much advantage over just having Vader. It’s points bloat. Trim the fat, get a bigger bid!

This is good advice. I’d drop the officers as well and run Boarding Troopers. There’s your Intel Officer: lasting a whole round and on a dirt-cheap ship. Line things up right and even if they don’t brace the Raider shot, they’ll need to burn it against an ignition attack or Demolisher.

The extra reroll of Ordnance Experts does push a black die up from 1.25 average damage against ships to about 1.44 if memory serves, which isn’t nothing but doesn’t seem amazing either.

6 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

I think you’re still over-valuing the Ordnance Experts on the Raiders. They aren’t going to get you much advantage over just having Vader. It’s points bloat. Trim the fat, get a bigger bid!

You guys have convinced me. I will run them this week without ordnance experts, and see how they go.

3 hours ago, Sobonis01 said:

You guys have convinced me. I will run them this week without ordnance experts, and see how they go.

Yeah, let us know!

And by the way: the ONLY reason I would ever leave OEs off of a Raider-I or GSD is because I was using Vader (or some other reroll option). But like, that IS Vader’s job. You’re paying 36 points for him so you can leave cards like Ordnance Experts at home.

OE does let you reroll flak, which Vader doesn't. They're useful to double up on, and I would only not do so if tight on points.

If I may, this is my variation of @Sobonis01 's Vader Onager build:

Vader OTB-OBPC Demolsier Raid2-NK-7 Raid1-Kallus TIE Trio

Onager Testbed (96)
• Darth Vader (36)
• Strategic Adviser (4)
• Gunnery Chief Varnillian (6)
• Orbital Bombardment Particle Cannons (5)
= 147 Points

Gladiator I (56)
• Captain Brunson (5) * removed
• Engine Techs (8)
• Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)
• Demolisher (10)
= 79 Points

Raider II (48)
• Admiral Montferrat (5)
• Disposable Capacitors (3) * added
• Overload Pulse (8) * replaced NK-7 Ion Cannons (10)
= 64 Points

Raider I (44)
• Agent Kallus (3)
• Ordnance Experts (4) * added
• Flechette Torpedoes (3)
• Instigator (4)
= 58 Points

Squadrons:
• Ciena Ree (17)
• Howlrunner (16)
• Valen Rudor (13)
= 46 Points

Total Points: 394

Assault: Most Wanted
Defense: Rift Ambush
Navigation: Superior Positions

--------------------------------------------------------

By swapping the Onager SD for the Onager Testbed, and SCBT for OBPC, I saved enough points to add Howlrunner, which will enhance Ree and Rudor's squadron-killing firepower. I thought there was ample ship-killing firepower in this build, which is why I switched the 2nd Raider to an anti-squadron ship. Ciena Ree and Valen Rudor synergize great together, but if you're only flying 2 squadrons, you're basically just sending them out to die versus enemy squadrons. Howlrunner gives them an extra blue die and will keep Rudor safe longer. But that's not enough to save them from an enemy squadron swarm, which is where the 2nd Raider comes into play: Instigator is going to lock down enemy squadrons, the Raider-I will flak them with black dice, Flechette Torpedoes will toggle their activation sliders, and Kallus will help kill the heroes. Then the TIE Trio will swoop in and finish them off. I added Ordnance Experts to Instigator for the rerolls because Vader's ability can't be used when flakking squadrons.

The Raider-II and Demolisher will lead the attack, obviously, with the OTB bombarding from extreme range. I wish I could've given the OTB the Cataclysm title, but I capped my build at 394 points to match Sobonis01's initiative bid. If I wanted Cataclysm or a stronger bid, I could drop Admiral Montferrat from the Raider-II, but I think it's more important to help it survive at medium range while it races around at speed 3-4, shooting enemy ships with NK-7 and forcing them to discard defense tokens Overload Pulse to force them to discard any defense tokens they use.

I ultimately decided not to put Intel Officer on Demolisher because Overload Pulse accomplishes the same thing for all of the ship's defense tokens, which is worth the 1 extra point. I decided to add Disposable Capacitors on the Raider-II to give it one long-range shot with OP. Moving at speed 3-4, the Raider-II should be able to get into long range of an enemy ship either at the end of Round 1 or by stalling during Round 2; it'll activate and use OP. OTB will activate next and blast the OP'd ship with its Special Battery and force the enemy to discard some of its defense tokens, or take that damage.

In the event that the enemy has no squadrons, I realize that I wasted a lot of points on Instigator and the TIE Trio, but even a Raider-I without anti-ship Ordnance can inflict significant damage to enemy warships, especially after they've been softened up by Overload Pulse, OTB, and Demolisher.

I think this is a well-balanced Vader Onager build.

BTW: I could go into greater detail regarding my plan for using Instigator and the TIE Trio to intercept enemy squadrons, if anyone's interested. 😉

@Reavern Might want to reconsider your NK-7 plan. Since the opponent gets to choose the token, you'll probably just be stripping away a lot of contains and redundant evades/redirects before you strip any braces or scatters.

5 hours ago, ThatAsianKid1 said:

@Reavern Might want to reconsider your NK-7 plan. Since the opponent gets to choose the token, you'll probably just be stripping away a lot of contains and redundant evades/redirects before you strip any braces or scatters.

That's right -- I overlooked the "defender to choose" part. Sometimes I see what I want to see. 😉 Now I remember why no one chooses NK-7.

All right, I'll switch NK-7 to Overload Pulse, which is like Intel Officer for all of the enemy's defense tokens.

6 hours ago, Reavern said:

That's right -- I overlooked the "defender to choose" part. Sometimes I see what I want to see. 😉 Now I remember why no one chooses NK-7.

All right, I'll switch NK-7 to Overload Pulse, which is like Intel Officer for all of the enemy's defense tokens.

Only issue with overload pulse is it’s clunky and the DCO can shut it down. Trust me I tried to use it in a list 5 times. The emperor as a officer helps with overload pulse. You nuke someone with overload they will not want to attack the emperor’s ship.

19 hours ago, Reavern said:

If I may, this is my variation of @Cpt ObVus 's Vader Onager build:

Correction: not MY Vader Onager build.

I know I’ve been vocal on this thread, but I have not posted a Vader Onager list. At least, I don’t remember doing so!

I have built a couple, but I don’t think I love them. I think the Onager ships have enough dice control available to them. I LOVE Romodi and Ozzel, and I think there’s a powerful Sloane list yet to be built... but I’ve yet to build a Vader/Onager list I like.

On 2/24/2020 at 11:24 AM, Cpt ObVus said:

Yeah, let us know!

And by the way: the ONLY reason I would ever leave OEs off of a Raider-I or GSD is because I was using Vader (or some other reroll option). But like, that IS Vader’s job. You’re paying 36 points for him so you can leave cards like Ordnance Experts at home.

I got 2 games in on Vassal with an updated list. I got rid of the scbt and put the long range mod on. I kept the xi7 but added intel officer, I came out with 14 point bid. I was able to lose one but it was close, and win the other.

OSD And Support Fleet. (386/400)
Empire

Commander: Darth Vader

Objectives: Surprise Attack, Superior Positions, Contested Outpost

[flagship] Onager-class Star Destroyer (110)
- Darth Vader (36)
- Intel Officer (7)
- Orbital Bombardment Particle Cannons (5)
- XI7 Turbolasers (6)
- Gunnery Chief Varnillian (6)
= 170 total points

Gladiator I-class Star Destroyer (56)
- Demolisher (10)
- Intel Officer (7)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)
- Engine Techs (8)
= 86 total points

Raider I-class Corvette (44)
- External Racks (3)
= 47 total points

Raider I-class Corvette (44)
- Iden Versio (6)
- External Racks (3)
= 53 total points

Squadrons (30/134):
1x Valen Rudor TIE Fighter Squadron (13)
1x Ciena Ree TIE Interceptor Squadron (17)

47 minutes ago, Sobonis01 said:

I got 2 games in on Vassal with an updated list. I got rid of the scbt and put the long range mod on. I kept the xi7 but added intel officer, I came out with 14 point bid. I was able to lose one but it was close, and win the other.

OSD And Support Fleet. (386/400)
Empire

Commander: Darth Vader

Objectives: Surprise Attack, Superior Positions, Contested Outpost

[flagship] Onager-class Star Destroyer (110)
- Darth Vader (36)
- Intel Officer (7)
- Orbital Bombardment Particle Cannons (5)
- XI7 Turbolasers (6)
- Gunnery Chief Varnillian (6)
= 170 total points

Gladiator I-class Star Destroyer (56)
- Demolisher (10)
- Intel Officer (7)
- Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)
- Engine Techs (8)
= 86 total points

Raider I-class Corvette (44)
- External Racks (3)
= 47 total points

Raider I-class Corvette (44)
- Iden Versio (6)
- External Racks (3)
= 53 total points

Squadrons (30/134):
1x Valen Rudor TIE Fighter Squadron (13)
1x Ciena Ree TIE Interceptor Squadron (17)

Nice! Looks like it ended up in a pretty good spot. Just curious: Were you first player or second player in your win? What about in the close loss? What did you beat/lose to?

51 minutes ago, Sobonis01 said:

I got 2 games in on Vassal with an updated list. I got rid of the scbt and put the long range mod on. I kept the xi7 but added intel officer, I came out with 14 point bid. I was able to lose one but it was close, and win the other.

I'd be curious to hear how intel officer was for you on the Onager:

My experiences with Intel officer thus far have been kinda opposite to @Reavern 's in that I've been scoring moderate to high damage even from the opening shots & that intel officer has been instrumental at stripping Brace tokens (or getting the opponent to take a fair bit of extra damage because they were unwilling to lose the brace).

I've mostly been using the OSD with the Orbital bombardment particle beam cannons myself: Which makes me think that the mis-match with intel officer is the SCBT's & not necessarily the Onager variant.
My (few) experiences with SCBT's are that the damage does curve up in a way that doesn't lend itself to intel officer (exactly as Reavern said). But (as far as I can tell) owing to the longer ignition range, the damage on the OBPC's does seem to curve up in a way that quite favours intel officer.

Thoughts?

1 hour ago, Cpt ObVus said:

Correction: not MY Vader Onager build.

I know I’ve been vocal on this thread, but I have not posted a Vader Onager list. At least, I don’t remember doing so!

I have built a couple, but I don’t think I love them. I think the Onager ships have enough dice control available to them. I LOVE Romodi and Ozzel, and I think there’s a powerful Sloane list yet to be built... but I’ve yet to build a Vader/Onager list I like.

Sorry, my mistake. I guess I didn't scroll up far enough to confirm the OP. 😉

I corrected it to @Sobonis01 .

IO, was very important to strip the brace token off the Starhawk. I was able to get some pretty good hits using obpc and ix7 as ix7 killed the redirect while I could intel the brace. Also damage control officer stopped my crit attacks. The best part was when I got 2 accs and then gunnery V a 3rd and got a lucky roll and melted a Cr90 on turn 3. It was a good day.

26 minutes ago, namdoolb said:

I'd be curious to hear how intel officer was for you on the Onager:

My experiences with Intel officer thus far have been kinda opposite to @Reavern 's in that I've been scoring moderate to high damage even from the opening shots & that intel officer has been instrumental at stripping Brace tokens (or getting the opponent to take a fair bit of extra damage because they were unwilling to lose the brace).

I've mostly been using the OSD with the Orbital bombardment particle beam cannons myself: Which makes me think that the mis-match with intel officer is the SCBT's & not necessarily the Onager variant.
My (few) experiences with SCBT's are that the damage does curve up in a way that doesn't lend itself to intel officer (exactly as Reavern said). But (as far as I can tell) owing to the longer ignition range, the damage on the OBPC's does seem to curve up in a way that quite favours intel officer.

Thoughts?

It's not about what Superweapon works best on which Onager variant. The OTB will have more difficulty rolling Accuracy's to target Brace than the OSD, which is why Intel Officer is worthwhile.

I wrote before that the OTB was completely opposite of the OSD and highly recommended using Intel Officer -- which super weapon you equip on the OTB doesn't matter.

Interesting stuff, guys!

So every time I go to build an Onager list, I feel inexorably drawn to the Testbed. The process goes like this:

I’ve flown the Testbed, and it was good. I definitely see the potential upside of the OSD, but for 14 less points, and the ability to make better use of the (in my opinion) better of the two Superweapons (OBPCs have better range and are cheaper, AND the OTB has more red dice to use with it at extreme range... and neither of the crit effects are amazing, though they’re both ok... kind of a wash), I really haven’t yet been able to talk myself into springing for the OSD.

Yet most of the builds I’ve seen here are using the OSD. What do you guys make of that? Talk me into the OSD.