3 minutes ago, Villefere said:

Which investigator is not willing to do this, considering what they're facing?

You really want Jack to not be a Rogue

1 minute ago, phillos said:

You really want Jack to not be a Rogue

Everyone has some idea of who he is and seem to think he is some sort of greedy thief. I have yet to see in print an example of him doing anything immoral or dishonest. I really need to read his Investigators of Arkham story.

12 minutes ago, Villefere said:

Everyone has some idea of who he is and seem to think he is some sort of greedy thief. I have yet to see in print an example of him doing anything immoral or dishonest. I really need to read his Investigators of Arkham story.

Well in the story he is basically running an illegal dig. He hasn't done any of the proper paperwork to get down there. That was one instance of him being a bit dodgey.

I don't think he's an immoral thief, but I don't think many of these Rogues are immoral thieves. Would you label Jenny or Preston an immoral thief? Even Tony is just doing his job. His job is hunting people down for money, but there's nothing about him overtly illegal. I think that Rogue is unfortunately a loaded label considering the D&D connection. Though Rogues can be more than just that.

1 minute ago, phillos said:

Well in the story he is basically running an illegal dig. He hasn't done any of the proper paperwork to get down there. That was one instance of him being a bit dodgey.

I don't think he's an immoral thief, but I don't think many of these Rogues are immoral thieves. Would you label Jenny or Preston an immoral thief? Even Tony is just doing his job. His job is hunting people down for money, but there's nothing about him overtly illegal.

The thing is, every investigator is operating outside the boundaries of the law (even Roland) simply due to the fact that authorities wont believe or accept the truth. Therefore I don't think that's a good metric for what constitutes a Rogue in this particular world.

I think the key as stated is that rogues are more or less self-interested. Good people, bad people, lawful or not, that’s what they have in common.

Thus is why, despite the resource cards and well connected flavor, I don’t foresee Charlie Kane as a rogue. He’s actually always portrayed as as decent guy and a politician that genuinely cares about his people.

7 minutes ago, Villefere said:

The thing is, every investigator is operating outside the boundaries of the law (even Roland) simply due to the fact that authorities wont believe or accept the truth. Therefore I don't think that's a good metric for what constitutes a Rogue in this particular world.

Correct, which is why I said it comes down to the motivation. In the rules reference definition of classes it depends on why Jack hunts for relics. Is he doing it for the pay check. Is he doing it out of a desire to complete his father's work. Is he doing it because he loves the thrill of the hunt. In those cases that is a more self interested goal than protect humanity or advance human understanding (a pure guardian and pure seeker respectively). He's not compelled by some mythos element so he's clearly not a Mystic and Survivor would assume he's an ordinary person caught up in extraordinary circumstances that is just trying to survive. I feel like Jack is more proactive than that. I still think Rogue is fitting well as some portion of his deck composition.

Plus, maybe rogues will get whips. YUS. 😆

Can't wait for a whip Preston build to become popular.

29 minutes ago, phillos said:

Correct, which is why I said it comes down to the motivation. In the rules reference definition of classes it depends on why Jack hunts for relics. Is he doing it for the pay check. Is he doing it out of a desire to complete his father's work. Is he doing it because he loves the thrill of the hunt. In those cases that is a more self interested goal than protect humanity or advance human understanding (a pure guardian and pure seeker respectively). He's not compelled by some mythos element so he's clearly not a Mystic and Survivor would assume he's an ordinary person caught up in extraordinary circumstances that is just trying to survive. I feel like Jack is more proactive than that. I still think Rogue is fitting well as some portion of his deck composition.

Usula is also an archeologist who hunts relics (she even steals idols from primitive tribes) yet she always gets a free pass. Everyone seems to think Monterrey is Beloq from Indiana Jones. All of the investigators have a personal event which sent them on their journey into the mythos, for Monterrey it was his fathers death. I don't see the investigation of a murder as a selfish goal.

I mean I've said all I can really say on the subject. Is Jenny's goal of finding her sister selfish? Is Skid's goal of helping his sick mother selfish? I'll just leave it at that.

5 minutes ago, phillos said:

I mean I've said all I can really say on the subject. Is Jenny's goal of finding her sister selfish? Is Skid's goal of helping his sick mother selfish? I'll just leave it at that.

No, yet they are Rogues. Skids is a Rogue because he is an ex-con not because he is trying to help is sick Mom. Motivation is clearly not the determining factor. Some of the classes in this game make sense, others seem completely arbitrary or only assigned for gameplay reasons.

I remain unconvinced that Monterrey best fits into the Rogue theme.

There's all kinds of arguments one could make one way or the other, but this seems like a wholly unproductive tangent, arguing in circles; additionally, with respect, the shifting goalposts and lack of addressing points that aren't in favour of the interpretation that Monterry Jack can't be a rogue makes for argument in bad faith.

It's also completely derailed the initial purpose of the thread, but then there's not really any good answer to that question, either.

I'd suggest it be left here.

1 hour ago, phillos said:

Can't wait for a whip Preston build to become popular.

Rich boys and their toys....

On 2/26/2020 at 3:57 PM, phillos said:

Can't wait for a whip Preston build to become popular.

Given his lack of Willpower, there's an argument that he's fairly whipped already...

On 2/26/2020 at 10:23 AM, Allonym said:

There's all kinds of arguments one could make one way or the other, but this seems like a wholly unproductive tangent, arguing in circles; additionally, with respect, the shifting goalposts and lack of addressing points that aren't in favour of the interpretation that Monterry Jack can't be a rogue makes for argument in bad faith.

It's also completely derailed the initial purpose of the thread, but then there's not really any good answer to that question, either.

I'd suggest it be left here.

It's in bad faith to disagree with you? and discussing Monterrey's role is off topic in a Monterrey thread? Noted

Totally a Rogue with Seeker support. I'm hoping he comes out sooner rather than later, but I think it would be great to see him come out with a Mountains of Madness expedition to the Antarctic.

On 3/23/2020 at 9:22 AM, redcapjack said:

Totally a Rogue with Seeker support. I'm hoping he comes out sooner rather than later, but I think it would be great to see him come out with a Mountains of Madness expedition to the Antarctic.

This game has visited the Aztec jungle, the pyramids of Egypt and the sights of Paris (among others), so a visit to Antarctica would make a wonderful addition, and I agree Monty would be a perfect rogue investigator for the campaign. I would find it difficult to imagine Akachi Onyele in polar costume though. 😁