So I am late to the game and just picked up the game… and most of the supplements (that’s just what I do when I buy games). But first a bit of backstory. I started playing L5R when it first hit the RPG world. My friends knew I had an interest in Japan and also RPGs, so it was an easy hook… And we played the **** out that game until I moved abroad back in 2001. So L5R had a very long break for me. I was excited to see FFG pick this game up, but was a little worried. Last time I played a FFG RPG was when they first released Warhammer, which played like board game… without a board. They had some great concepts though that needed to be ironed out though.

First thing though, is the story matching what happened in the original L5R? I really hope not. I would love FFG to go their own way completely.

So my impressions of the new game. Well, I am still reading through it, but here are my impressions so far.

1) Ok, so Ho tu ri has turned into a girl. I’m not up on the fiction, but was that even necessary? Whatever, its all good. At least they gave her a name that actually makes sense in Japanese. We still have To tu ri though… gah. Yeah, I know… I focus on odd things.

2) Speaking of girls, L5R has always had a gender mix from the beginning, this book now seems to be… well… trying too hard in that regard with role swapping.

3) Going back to point 1. They have fixed most of the more bizarre names where the creators just were making the craziest stuff up that made 0 phonetic sense, so I am really happy about that to be honest. The cities however still make me cringe. Seriously… The original creators just got a J-E dictionary and just started making up random stuff up. Otosan Uchi always bothered me in particular… literally just 2 words plucked out of the dictionary with no grammatical glue to mean…Dad’s house… I still cant say it with a straight face.

4) The art is gorgeous, but is it just me or does it seem more Chinese? It feels more Three Kingdoms than Sengoku Jidai. This seems mostly problems with drawing Kimono… Granted, those things are constrictive.

5) So now to mechanical things…. Successes, exploding successes, strife and opportunity… wait… Is there an actual mechanic for opportunity? Maybe I haven’t got there yet. Looking at other posts, I may never get there. Oh well… House rule probably.

So, you can tell… I am a bit of a purist when it comes to history, but I also get that L5R is fantasy and just uses Japanese as its core. Still I have plans to fix things… At least from storytelling perspective. I really have no compunction with retelling stories to make them more interesting. Adding things I prefer and cutting away what I don’t. I honestly don’t get why many DMs feel bound to tell someone else’s story exactly.

Plan 1) Redraw the map. Going to make it more similar to Japan. In fact, part of the redraw means renaming. I will probably go with real Japanese place names though, just to make life easier. It will also give me a chance to add some local flavor and legend I picked up while in Japan. I also would like to explore making something akin to Korea so I can eventually make a campaign based on Hideyoshi’s invasion.

Got a work in progress right now... Not sure if I will keep it yet... It looks promising though. Using the Inkarnate engine by the way... Having fun just fiddling with it at the moment.

Plan 2) Throw most of the story characters out. I might keep some of the very major players, but the mid level guys I have no use for… Ok, maybe keep one or two for useful NPCs.

Plan 3) Make this not Asian-Lord-of-the-Rings. I think I would like to use the Shadowlands more sparingly, and not make the story line so focused on Fu Leng’s/Sauron’s return. I would instead like to introduce a Shogun instead and make the Emperor a figurehead… And then flip flop it a few times possibly.

Plan 4) Tinker with the Unicorn. First thing is to rename the Utaku… because I still remember when they were the Otaku… Until AEG figured out that was actually a word. I am thinking of calling them the Mosuo… A not too subtle nod to the matriarchal Mosuo people of China. The Mongol’s are well represented already in the Moto. Maybe I should make each family a different culture absorbed into the Unicorn during their travels… That sounds fun.

So I have lots of ideas. It’s a big project that I don’t know if I will ever finish. It will be fun.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Oh… and what RPG would be complete without some ambience music.

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5gJjmARXMVhPbIApKcFVIk?si=DFOJUX5mTEK8M1selu4jzQ

Cheers all!

3 hours ago, Ellahrairah said:

1) Ok, so Ho tu ri has turned into a girl. I’m not up on the fiction, but was that even necessary? Whatever, its all good. At least they gave her a name that actually makes sense in Japanese. We still have To tu ri though… gah. Yeah, I know… I focus on odd things.

No changes were 'necessary' but some were done largely for newer sensibilities, I think . One probably deliberate move was to have a roughly equal mix of male and female Clan champions.

It's probably worth underlining that she really isn't just Doji-Hotaru-but-female; yes, Satsume's child and yes, blatantly having an affair with Kachiko but her personality comes across as quite different, without the 'playboy' personality that kind of defined Hoturi. Which may be heavily connected with the fact that Satsume is dead before 'day 1' of the first adventure, so she's already been thrown into the position her dad was trying to prepare her for before we ever meet her.

3 hours ago, Ellahrairah said:

2) Speaking of girls, L5R has always had a gender mix from the beginning, this book now seems to be… well… trying too hard in that regard with role swapping.

There is a deliberate move to essentially have a pretty equal gender balance of characters in most places, as noted (much like deliberately dropping reference to the historically correct phrase Samurai-Ko; you're either a samurai or you're not, regardless of plumbing). There are more female characters, but they're still not dominant; 3 female major Clan champions (Unicorn, Phoenix, Crane) vs 4 male (Crab, Scorpion, Lion, Dragon and technically a fifth if you count Mantis) for example.

Older editions did have prominent female characters but in many cases they were.....how do I put this?....drawn for the eyes of teenage male CCG players?

Both Hida O-Ushi and Bayushi Kachiko were prime examples of that. Yes, the point of Kachiko is that she's desirable. But compare any AEG artwork of her to the current one and you'll get what I mean, and it's nice to see some artwork of O-Ushi wearing some actual armour rather than what was essentially a bamboo-and-plate bikini.

3 hours ago, Ellahrairah said:

3) Going back to point 1. They have fixed most of the more bizarre names where the creators just were making the craziest stuff up that made 0 phonetic sense, so I am really happy about that to be honest. The cities however still make me cringe. Seriously… The original creators just got a J-E dictionary and just started making up random stuff up. Otosan Uchi always bothered me in particular… literally just 2 words plucked out of the dictionary with no grammatical glue to mean…Dad’s house… I still cant say it with a straight face.

Honestly, a lot of the time in our games we use the translated names. One thing I've never really got in the fictions is where a character's dialogue is written in English but then has one Japanese word mixed into the sentence, for flavour.

Yes, obviously the character actually said 'Hai'. But then the preceding instruction was probably in Japanese/Rokugai, too .

So I tend to stick to the translated names of towns. 'My Father's House' may sound a little pretentious but is it really worse than 'Violence behind Courtliness City'?

3 hours ago, Ellahrairah said:

4) The art is gorgeous, but is it just me or does it seem more Chinese? It feels more Three Kingdoms than Sengoku Jidai. This seems mostly problems with drawing Kimono… Granted, those things are constrictive.

I'd agree but say it's not just Chinese. There's a lot of non-Japanese asian aesthetic and cultural elements spread out across the empire this time. The Phoenix have quite a Korean vibe going, whilst a lot of the southern clans have a heavy Chinese feel. The mongol elements of the Unicorn apply to more than just the Moto family, and there's a slight Indonesian feel to descriptions of Mantis lands.

3 hours ago, Ellahrairah said:

5) So now to mechanical things…. Successes, exploding successes, strife and opportunity… wait… Is there an actual mechanic for opportunity? Maybe I haven’t got there yet. Looking at other posts, I may never get there. Oh well… House rule probably.

Yes.

results on the dice are opportunities. There are some generic examples in the rulebook, along with more specific examples for certain settings in respective sourcebooks.

If you keep them, they can be spent to trigger beneficial effects not directly tied to the success of the check (so a scrutiny check would allow you to watch someone without being noticed)

By comparison, keeping and in excess of the check's TN - 'bonus successes' - is what gives you 'success with style' (so a scrutiny check would reveal more details about the observed)

Bonus Successes and Opportunities taken together are essentially 5E's equivalent of 'raises'.

In combat, a lot of techniques use to trigger them; Coiling Serpent Style, for example, requires equal to the target's vigilance when attacking with a Snaring weapon. Whether you cause damage or not, spending the lets you 'pin' your opponent's weapon for the round, forcing them to either skip attacking you whilst they recover, or draw a second blade, make an unarmed attack, or....basically something other than " hit you with the big sword ".

3 hours ago, Ellahrairah said:

So, you can tell… I am a bit of a purist when it comes to history, but I also get that L5R is fantasy and just uses Japanese as its core. Still I have plans to fix things… At least from storytelling perspective. I really have no compunction with retelling stories to make them more interesting. Adding things I prefer and cutting away what I don’t. I honestly don’t get why many DMs feel bound to tell someone else’s story exactly.

I've no problem altering history - or stitching different 'versions' of history from multiple editions together (I've used several older edition adventures stitched into the current narrative, using characters who've either been renamed or who don't exist in the current fictions - the PCs are just about to play through the Hare Clan, despite the Usagi being very different in the current lore). But I kind of get why some people like sticking to an overarching narrative.

It's probably more relevant in settings like L5R, where FFG has regularly produced pre-written materials where the PCs will actively interact with the named characters in the overarching story; so having the same broad plot going as the design studio going on 'off-screen' is a good idea. Maintaining your own living universe is fine but as you drift 'out of sync' with 'official' events then less and less material is useable without tailoring.

3 hours ago, Ellahrairah said:

Plan 1) Redraw the map. Going to make it more similar to Japan. In fact, part of the redraw means renaming. I will probably go with real Japanese place names though, just to make life easier. It will also give me a chance to add some local flavor and legend I picked up while in Japan. I also would like to explore making something akin to Korea so I can eventually make a campaign based on Hideyoshi’s invasion.

Got a work in progress right now... Not sure if I will keep it yet... It looks promising though. Using the Inkarnate engine by the way... Having fun just fiddling with it at the moment.

Looks VERY nice so far.

Main observations?

Rotating Rokugan through 90' is neither here nor there, and as noted, makes it look a lot more like Japan if you're very much trying to push the "Non-Copyright Sengoku Japan" feel rather than "Rokugan=/=Japan" of the current FFG materials

Having the land split up the way you have, and changing the order of positioning of the clans, will drive big changes in their respective relationships, so that will need a bit of thinking about

That's not inherently a bad thing if you plan on modifying history, but some of the clan's traditional rivalries will probably shift around.

The Dragon and the Phoenix (traditional rivals) and Crane and Phoenix (traditional allies) lacking a land border, for example.

Is upper 'mainland' meant to be Unicorn territory too? Because one thing the Unicorn really need to be who they currently are is a land border 'off to the steppes'. Otherwise they'd probably (if still explorers) have a much heavier maritime theme, at which point they kind of cross over into the Mantis (is there a Mantis clan in your version of the setting? They're not marked on the map).

Crane lands being centred on a separate island also has consequences - militarily and culturally. The island is very hard to attack in force, but it's also culturally isolated since it's off the mainland (which is by definition 'the place where the capital is'). Are the lands around the capital Imperial holdings? Crane? Where, respectively, is Kyuden Doji (or it's equivalent)?

I notice you've got two major cities marked - essentially Not-Tokyo and Not-Kyoto. One thing probably worth thinking through is, if you're having a 'shogun's capital' at Not-Tokyo which is not the imperial city, whose city it actually is? does it have a non-clan-held imperial territory around it like its Rokugani equivalent? Equally, if the Imperial City, and Imperial Family is ensconced at Not-Kyoto, having it be entirely encysted within Scorpion lands represents a HUGE chunk of political leverage, even if the Emperor is more of a figurehead....

3 hours ago, Ellahrairah said:

Plan 2) Throw most of the story characters out. I might keep some of the very major players, but the mid level guys I have no use for… Ok, maybe keep one or two for useful NPCs.

Your setting, your choice. I like quite a lot of the various NPCs. However, if you're fundamentally rewriting the story, then it'd be foolish if you didn't : by definition changing the story means you're going to need to change the cast even if you keep the names; people are a product of their experiences.

3 hours ago, Ellahrairah said:

Plan 3) Make this not Asian-Lord-of-the-Rings. I think I would like to use the Shadowlands more sparingly, and not make the story line so focused on Fu Leng’s/Sauron’s return. I would instead like to introduce a Shogun instead and make the Emperor a figurehead… And then flip flop it a few times possibly.

Honestly, in the current story it's been pretty much completely in the background. The Hantei Jodan dies and Clan War kicks off with no supernatural assistance required. There are supernatural threats glowering away in the backdrop but frankly at the moment it's a lot closer to Asian-Song-Of-Ice-And-Fire.

If you want to introduce a Shogun, go right ahead. I would suggest in the setting that the Emerald Champion is basically the equivalent of the Shogun (primary legal authority as chief of the magistrature and primary military authority as commander of the Imperial Legions, both in the Emperor's name), so depending on how much influence the post has, who's holding it, and their relationship with the throne, and how active the current Emperor is, you might well have a bit of back-and-forth between the two of where the actual day-to-day rulership lies.

3 hours ago, Ellahrairah said:

Plan 4) Tinker with the Unicorn. First thing is to rename the Utaku… because I still remember when they were the Otaku… Until AEG figured out that was actually a word. I am thinking of calling them the Mosuo… A not too subtle nod to the matriarchal Mosuo people of China. The Mongol’s are well represented already in the Moto. Maybe I should make each family a different culture absorbed into the Unicorn during their travels… That sounds fun.

Seems fair enough. You'll still probably want the 'core unicorn' family that originally set out (the Shinjo, unless changing it) but the Moto are already a 'foreign' family. The only real change would be making the Ide foreigners instead of unicorn ambassadors to the foreigners.

The Utaku....I guess it depends on your perspective (daft names aside). Unlike the Ide, it's arguable that the Utaku are a group of foreigners who've joined the Unicorn, but the key difference is that the respected foreigners aren't the humans, they're the Utaku steeds . One thing the current fiction has played up a bit more than previous editions is that Utaku steeds aren't 'a horse with a horn and +1 stats' but that they're comparatively intelligent in their own right; more akin to Weber's Coursers, Donaldson's Ranyhyn, or Tolkein's Mearas than 'horses'.

Other Unicorn steeds generally are obviously awesome horses of amazingness anyway, but it's the Utaku steeds (and their insistence on female riders) that make the Utaku what they are rather than the other way around.

Very much looking forward to seeing stuff. New material is always welcomed!

I agree with Magnus on most of those points. Here is my addendum.

10 hours ago, Ellahrairah said:

Ok, so Ho tu ri has turned into a girl. I’m not up on the fiction, but was that even necessary? Whatever, its all good. At least they gave her a name that actually makes sense in Japanese. We still have To tu ri though… gah. Yeah, I know… I focus on odd things.

Speaking of girls, L5R has always had a gender mix from the beginning, this book now seems to be… well… trying too hard in that regard with role swapping.

Yeah, I notice that too. While I like what they did swapping the Crane Champion from male to female, the really should have dropped the entanglement with Kachkio. Or made it more that they grew up together like sisters. Some of the....."woke" ideology is only going to drive people away and it is certainly NOT going to attract the woke scolders who have no intention of supporting the product line by purchasing into the game (get woke, go broke).

10 hours ago, Ellahrairah said:

The art is gorgeous, but is it just me or does it seem more Chinese? It feels more Three Kingdoms than Sengoku Jidai. This seems mostly problems with drawing Kimono… Granted, those things are constrictive.

Yes, there is more influences beyond just Japan. One could argue that the 7 great clans might be a stand-in for the Seven Warring States of China with the original Hantei being the equivalent of Qin Shi Huang uniting them under one banner (the mythical contest between siblings being an analogy for the wars of unification of China).

And as Magnus pointed out, the Phoenix have picked up lots of Korean influences with the Kaito family in particular effectivly being Zainichi-Kankoku-jin. I am particularly pleased with that addition to the game.

The Dragon Clan and their monks in particular have always come across to me as being Wuxia Chinese monks and monasteries. The High House of Light in particular seems to have more emphasis on the "Xaiolin Temple" aspect now than in previous versions.

I do agree that the artwork is fantastic. And with the exception of the Core Rulebook cover, they have done a fantastic job of capturing the various Asian ethnicities rather than just generic "yellow-faced" europid characters. That attention to detail gives the new version more authenticity and sincerity which I greatly appreciate.

10 hours ago, Ellahrairah said:

Plan 1) Redraw the map. Going to make it more similar to Japan. In fact, part of the redraw means renaming. I will probably go with real Japanese place names though, just to make life easier. It will also give me a chance to add some local flavor and legend I picked up while in Japan. I also would like to explore making something akin to Korea so I can eventually make a campaign based on Hideyoshi’s invasion.

Plan 2) Throw most of the story characters out. I might keep some of the very major players, but the mid level guys I have no use for… Ok, maybe keep one or two for useful NPCs.

Plan 3) Make this not Asian-Lord-of-the-Rings. I think I would like to use the Shadowlands more sparingly, and not make the story line so focused on Fu Leng’s/Sauron’s return. I would instead like to introduce a Shogun instead and make the Emperor a figurehead… And then flip flop it a few times possibly.

Plan 4) Tinker with the Unicorn. First thing is to rename the Utaku… because I still remember when they were the Otaku… Until AEG figured out that was actually a word. I am thinking of calling them the Mosuo… A not too subtle nod to the matriarchal Mosuo people of China. The Mongol’s are well represented already in the Moto. Maybe I should make each family a different culture absorbed into the Unicorn during their travels… That sounds fun.

So I have lots of ideas. It’s a big project that I don’t know if I will ever finish. It will be fun.

Best of luck. The Phoenix Clan is the optimal choice for your campaign's version of Korea though you could also add in some of the Unicorn as the Koreans are distantly related to the Mongolians through the Manchus.

I would not necessarily throw out all of the characters, but you should certainly look at the character blocks and reapply them to use as characters appropriate to your game. Saves some time and energy if you don't have to recreate already mostly balanced NPCs.

I get your concern about not wanting your game to be Middle Earth in Rokugan. I would not blame you if you dispensed with the Shadowlands altogether and instead made the Crab Clan represent a buffer against gaijin expansion. Could make for an interesting situation if the Great Wall of Rokugan was the prevent the Maharajahs of the Southwest from advancing on the Emerald Empire. Having a campaign contrasting the Tiger and the Elephant could be quite entertaining.

I like you idea of having each of the Unicorn clans represent an absorbed culture. With how expansive the Mongolian Empire was under the Khans, it would allow you to have Armenians, Kyrgyz and Georgians make an appearance should you so choose. Or even the Rus Slavs of the Volga River Valley if you so choose.

13 hours ago, neilcell said:

Yeah, I notice that too. While I like what they did swapping the Crane Champion from male to female, the really should have dropped the entanglement with Kachkio. Or made it more that they grew up together like sisters. Some of the....."woke" ideology is only going to drive people away and it is certainly NOT going to attract the woke scolders who have no intention of supporting the product line by purchasing into the game (get woke, go broke).

I did a lot of soul searching on this topic, and I while the woke-great-leap-forward subculture isnt my cup of tea, I am coming to the realization that RPGs have a different audience than the 80s and 90s, where it was catering to the male teenage audience.... And if you saw a girl in the game store... It was like seeing a mythical unicorn, as most girls had no interest in RPGs. That is all change now... Which is a good thing. More gamers make me happy, so RPGs have to cater to a different kind of audience than back then. I still think they are trying too hard with the art though... But hey... If it gets more gamers, I am all for it.

14 hours ago, neilcell said:

Yes, there is more influences beyond just Japan. One could argue that the 7 great clans might be a stand-in for the Seven Warring States of China with the original Hantei being the equivalent of Qin Shi Huang uniting them under one banner (the mythical contest between siblings being an analogy for the wars of unification of China).

And as Magnus pointed out, the Phoenix have picked up lots of Korean influences with the Kaito family in particular effectivly being Zainichi-Kankoku-jin. I am particularly pleased with that addition to the game.

The Dragon Clan and their monks in particular have always come across to me as being Wuxia Chinese monks and monasteries. The High House of Light in particular seems to have more emphasis on the "Xaiolin Temple" aspect now than in previous versions.

I do agree that the artwork is fantastic. And with the exception of the Core Rulebook cover, they have done a fantastic job of capturing the various Asian ethnicities rather than just generic "yellow-faced" europid characters. That attention to detail gives the new version more authenticity and sincerity which I greatly appreciate.

Honestly, I know mostly Japanese history, very little Chinese history, and Korean history is relegated to the 2 episodes I have seen of Kingdom (I got to get me some of those hats). I am intrigued about the comment you made about the Phoenix being Zainichi. I like the idea, but what were the tip offs for you? I know my Japanese friends can spot a Zainichi name by unusual combination of Kanji.

Not sure if I agree with Rokugan resembling the warring states, because it does a pretty good job of Japanese medieval politics and what I would consider something akin to the Onin war. I suppose they are all pretty similar though.

The Dragon... Oh yeah! I agree with you 100%.

14 hours ago, neilcell said:

Best of luck. The Phoenix Clan is the optimal choice for your campaign's version of Korea though you could also add in some of the Unicorn as the Koreans are distantly related to the Mongolians through the Manchus.

Honestly, I am not sure if I would make it too Korean, as I know very little of the histories. I suppose I would merge the Korea with a fantasy version of the Eimishi. Not sure yet though, as I am still doing a lot of brainstorming.

I like the ideas though, and I appreciate the input.

22 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Honestly, a lot of the time in our games we use the translated names. One thing I've never really got in the fictions is where a character's dialogue is written in English but then has one Japanese word mixed into the sentence, for flavour.

Yes, obviously the character actually said 'Hai'. But then the preceding instruction was probably in Japanese/Rokugai, too .

So I tend to stick to the translated names of towns. 'My Father's House' may sound a little pretentious but is it really worse than 'Violence behind Courtliness City'?

For me, they are both bad. I will likely just replace names with real cities I am familiar with, but add some new towns. That have rich histories. One city I used to live was called Kisarazu, which if I remember correctly, is in reference to a famous prince weeping under a tree. The prince “Yamato-takeru-no-mikoto” and his wife named “Oto-tachibana-himewere trying to cross the bay to go to “Kazusa-no-kuni” (modern Chiba prefecture). However, the sea was very stormy and his wife thought that it an anger of the Sea God, so she threw herself into the sea to soothe the anger. The town next to that city is Sodegaura. Sode, being the sleeve of a kimono, washed up on the shore, and that was how the town was named.

There are a lot of hidden gems in names there and most I havent found any information on. I used to also live in a place named Goi, whose Kanji means 5 wells. I could never find exactly what was going on with that or any reference as to why it was named that.

I suppose it has more significance for me, and I nerd out on things like that.

22 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Rotating Rokugan through 90' is neither here nor there, and as noted, makes it look a lot more like Japan if you're very much trying to push the "Non-Copyright Sengoku Japan" feel rather than "Rokugan=/=Japan" of the current FFG materials

When the Japanese put out maps, they typically will orient that way, were us non-Japanese always put it in a north-south orientation. If you ever look at maps of the period drawn by the Japanese, or even a modern rail map of the country, youll see what I mean

22 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Having the land split up the way you have, and changing the order of positioning of the clans, will drive big changes in their respective relationships, so that will need a bit of thinking about

That's not inherently a bad thing if you plan on modifying history, but some of the clan's traditional rivalries will probably shift around.

I have thought of that, and its an inevitability of changing the nation back to an island nation. I am trying to keep them as close to the original as possible, but youre right. Some alterations would have to be made in their overall relationships.

22 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Is upper 'mainland' meant to be Unicorn territory too? Because one thing the Unicorn really need to be who they currently are is a land border 'off to the steppes'. Otherwise they'd probably (if still explorers) have a much heavier maritime theme, at which point they kind of cross over into the Mantis (is there a Mantis clan in your version of the setting? They're not marked on the map).

The Unicorn are meant to be close to what my version of the Korean peninsula is. I was thinking they would arrive like the Mongols did to Japan, by boat but in no less a dramatic, but friendlier moment. The Mantis are still a thing and I put the islands a bit to the SE. I dont think they will change too much, but going to give them a little more of a Ryukyu kingdom feel

22 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

I notice you've got two major cities marked - essentially Not-Tokyo and Not-Kyoto. One thing probably worth thinking through is, if you're having a 'shogun's capital' at Not-Tokyo which is not the imperial city, whose city it actually is? does it have a non-clan-held imperial territory around it like its Rokugani equivalent? Equally, if the Imperial City, and Imperial Family is ensconced at Not-Kyoto, having it be entirely encysted within Scorpion lands represents a HUGE chunk of political leverage, even if the Emperor is more of a figurehead....

Thats a good point I haven't considered. Mostly I am playing with the map and wanted to see what the city markers would look like, but the general shape is one I would like to keep. Having more Scorpion control brings up some delightful possibilities though. Eventually though, the plan would be similar to the Kamakura period and have a Shogunate established somewhere else to get it away from existing court politics. If you know anything about the period, you will already know who I am thinking should be Shogun

22 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Honestly, in the current story it's been pretty much completely in the background. The Hantei Jodan dies and Clan War kicks off with no supernatural assistance required. There are supernatural threats glowering away in the backdrop but frankly at the moment it's a lot closer to Asian-Song-Of-Ice-And-Fire.

Good to know. I am happy its not just a carbon copy of what AEG did. I wish there was a new timeline I could go through without having to read each fiction.

22 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

The Utaku....I guess it depends on your perspective (daft names aside). Unlike the Ide, it's arguable that the Utaku are a group of foreigners who've joined the Unicorn, but the key difference is that the respected foreigners aren't the humans, they're the Utaku steeds . One thing the current fiction has played up a bit more than previous editions is that Utaku steeds aren't 'a horse with a horn and +1 stats' but that they're comparatively intelligent in their own right; more akin to Weber's Coursers, Donaldson's Ranyhyn, or Tolkein's Mearas than 'horses'.

Interesting. Is that a newer add on to the fiction?

Anyways, those are great points to consider. Obviously a lot of my personal Rokugan (which I even renamed Nanagan) is based off my own personal experiences and is just fun for me to even do a partial world building type scenario.

16 hours ago, neilcell said:

Yeah, I notice that too. While I like what they did swapping the Crane Champion from male to female, the really should have dropped the entanglement with Kachkio. Or made it more that they grew up together like sisters. Some of the....."woke" ideology is only going to drive people away and it is certainly NOT going to attract the woke scolders who have no intention of supporting the product line by purchasing into the game (get woke, go broke).

I actually liked the change, because it has the potential to make a good portrayal of how marriage and love work in Rokugan. I'm not even sure that you can do anything else with it because Rokugan is already super-"woke" so there ain't much new to include. These things are only noticeable because L5R traditionally excludes "slice of life" stories and rely on side exposition to show "unimportant" parts of the setting, thus the average reader can be easily surprised when they encounter such an "unimportant" part that the story takes as a given.

23 hours ago, neilcell said:

Yeah, I notice that too. While I like what they did swapping the Crane Champion from male to female, the really should have dropped the entanglement with Kachkio. Or made it more that they grew up together like sisters. Some of the....."woke" ideology is only going to drive people away and it is certainly NOT going to attract the woke scolders who have no intention of supporting the product line by purchasing into the game (get woke, go broke).

L5R is woke.
This is by design, and it is also very in line with the current TTRPG fanbase.
I think it is a good decision.
L5R try to satisfy everybody; narrative players, woke players, crunchy players, swrpg players, old school l5r players, tactical players etc etc.

Obviously, I think it was detrimental to the game to try to please every crowds. Tactical/Mechanical players end up with a half broken system that is tedious, and Narrative/Story players end up with a unwieldy and sluggish narrative game.
It is obvious at this point that the creative force behind L5R 5E was pulling in all kinds of directions and none was able to set their vision.

11 hours ago, Avatar111 said:

L5R is woke.
This is by design, and it is also very in line with the current TTRPG fanbase.
I think it is a good decision.

Didn't learn a **** thing from gamer-gate huh?

Most of the gaming community don't give a dead rat's rump about wokeness. They just want to play in an immersive and dynamic campaign world. They play these roleplaying games as a form of escapism, not to simply re-hash reality. Yes, gaming PUBLISHING was dominated by men in the 80s and 90s, but the gaming community did have women even back in the 70s. I would know because my father rubbed shoulders at Purdue University in Lafayette, Indiana with people who would dominate the gaming industry in the 80s and 90s. Even then there were women who were VERY active in gaming. Kossuth in the Forgotten Realms? Yea, that deity was named after Kossuth Street in Lafayette, the one that leads directly into Caterpillar's factory. Did the male publishers at that time pander to a male audience? Yes. But the focus of the published materials does not equate to what the consumer base was; correlation does NOT mean causality. The identitarianism of wokeness is not representative of the gaming community but rather fringe outsiders trying to bully the industry. Don't believe me? Listen to what independent social commentators like Tim Pool have to say on the matter. Or Jeremy from Geeks and Gamers channel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ot5Ccu6P24

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPE6elDcmhY

3 hours ago, neilcell said:

L5R is woke.
This is by design, and it is also very in line with the current TTRPG fanbase.
I think it is a good decision.

3 hours ago, neilcell said:

Didn't learn a **** thing from gamer-gate huh?

Most of the gaming community don't give a dead rat's rump about wokeness. They just want to play in an immersive and dynamic campaign world. They play these roleplaying games as a form of escapism, not to simply re-hash reality.

You know. I don't have my finger on the pulse of the entire industry, and honestly I don't care what meta is. That is what I love about RPGs... In essence, all you need is a core rulebook, imagination and the will to create worlds for your PCs to inhabit. For what I am interested in creating, I would discard Kachiko and Hotaru, just because they don't really form a dynamic I am interested in. I also have very different plans for Togashi Yokuni. Thats the beauty of all this. In the end its your world. Do whatever you like... In my experience, that kind of passion translates well to players. Especially when they understand that is what you do, and all bets are off when it comes to your games.

Again though, I do appreciate both of your insights. I have been absent from the gaming community for quite some time.

15 hours ago, Avatar111 said:

On 2/21/2020 at 5:19 PM, neilcell said:

Yeah, I notice that too. While I like what they did swapping the Crane Champion from male to female, the really should have dropped the entanglement with Kachkio. Or made it more that they grew up together like sisters. Some of the....."woke" ideology is only going to drive people away and it is certainly NOT going to attract the woke scolders who have no intention of supporting the product line by purchasing into the game (get woke, go broke).

L5R is woke.

Let's be more specific: Rokugan as a setting basically ignores gender.

It's still massively racist, has an entrenched class system seventeenth century Hindu India would envy, and advocates suicide as a logical method for dealing with shame.

I feel the label "woke" is rather pushing it.

As well as being gramatically incorrect.

4 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Let's be more specific: Rokugan as a setting basically ignores gender.

It's still massively racist, has an entrenched class system seventeenth century Hindu India would envy, and advocates suicide as a logical method for dealing with shame.

I feel the label "woke" is rather pushing it.

As well as being gramatically incorrect.

3 minutes ago, Ellahrairah said:

I also have very different plans for Togashi Yokuni.

To be honest, we don't really know what their plans are for him. We know he's not quite the same as AEG Togashi, because we've seen inside his head in the fiction The Rising Wave he's not the Kami under a false name...

1 minute ago, Magnus Grendel said:

To be honest, we don't really know what their plans are for him. We know he's not quite the same as AEG Togashi, because we've seen inside his head in the fiction The Rising Wave he's not the Kami under a false name...

I was actually thinking of making him a wizard of oz type character. I chubby, but wise, little guy. With a big bad *** Kagemusha.

Wrt the fiction timeline, I'm pretty sure there's one in the LCG lore forum.

4 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Let's be more specific: Rokugan as a setting basically ignores gender.

It's still massively racist, has an entrenched class system seventeenth century Hindu India would envy, and advocates suicide as a logical method for dealing with shame.

I feel the label "woke" is rather pushing it.

As well as being gramatically incorrect.

Well played.

14 hours ago, neilcell said:

Didn't learn a **** thing from gamer-gate huh?

Most of the gaming community don't give a dead rat's rump about wokeness. They just want to play in an immersive and dynamic campaign world. They play these roleplaying games as a form of escapism, not to simply re-hash reality. Yes, gaming PUBLISHING was dominated by men in the 80s and 90s, but the gaming community did have women even back in the 70s. I would know because my father rubbed shoulders at Purdue University in Lafayette, Indiana with people who would dominate the gaming industry in the 80s and 90s. Even then there were women who were VERY active in gaming. Kossuth in the Forgotten Realms? Yea, that deity was named after Kossuth Street in Lafayette, the one that leads directly into Caterpillar's factory. Did the male publishers at that time pander to a male audience? Yes. But the focus of the published materials does not equate to what the consumer base was; correlation does NOT mean causality. The identitarianism of wokeness is not representative of the gaming community but rather fringe outsiders trying to bully the industry. Don't believe me? Listen to what independent social commentators like Tim Pool have to say on the matter. Or Jeremy from Geeks and Gamers channel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ot5Ccu6P24

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPE6elDcmhY

Don't really care to watch videos from the guy who thinks the Sonic the Hedgehog movie is a blow against feminism or a guy who got banned from all Magic the Gathering events for harassing a woman. Don't really think "get woke get broke" is a thing either, seeing as D&D and Pathfinder/Starfinder are still the big dogs in the market after years of making efforts to be more inclusive.

Fiction timeline can be found here:

Short, spoiler-heavy lowdown:

I'll point out that it's a Kitsuki who goes through with the smart deductions in the Imperial Palace.

6 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Fiction timeline can be found here:

Short, spoiler-heavy lowdown:

• About a decade before the RPG begins
  • Tsume no Doji Retsu, a Crane vassal, seizes both Kyotei Castle and the castle town of Toshi Ranbo off the lion, and wiping out two Akodo vassal families, the Damasu and Goseki. The lion are not happy, but the Emerald Champion rules in favour of the Crane. The fact that the Emerald Champion is Doji Satsume, also Crane Clan Champion, is entirely coincidental.
• A couple of years (?) before the RPG begins
  • Kakita Ryoku is replaced as Imperial Advisor by Bayushi Kachiko in what's a bit of a coup for the scorpion clan.
    • It's hinted that Ryoku may have had an affair with Hantei Jodan, the current emperor. Certainly, Empress Hantei Hochiahime goes into seclusion about the same time and is the only Imperial family member not to be seen 'on screen' to date. It's very vaguely suggested that the younger prince, Hantei Daisetsu, might not be Hochiahime's son.
  • There has been an 'elemental imbalance' which has been concerning the Phoenix Clan for some time. They can't identify why it's happening, but the Kami are becoming more unresponsive and uncontrollable.
    • The first manifestation of this which is impossible to hide outside the clan is a tsunami which strikes the east coast. Since most of the east coast is Crane territory, the Crane clan takes a battering - and since these are some of the most productive rice fields in the empire, the Crane take an economic gut-punch and quite a few provinces dependant on Crane rice are on the verge of starvation for several years. No-one connects the natural disaster to Phoenix meddling, fortunately for them.
  • Tsume no Doji Retsu is murdered in Kyotei Castle. His murderer is never caught and his son, Tsume no Doji Takashi, inherits his land and titles.
  • Doji Satsume abdicates the Crane Clan Championate in favour of his daughter Doji Hotaru, at the repeated urgings of his Kakita brothers-in-law, Toshimoko and Yoshi.
  • The Lion and Unicorn Clans begin negotiating a peace treaty to settle 'historical claims' over the disputed border between the two clans. It's ultimately agreed that the treaty will be formalised by weddings between Shinjo Altansarnai (the Unicorn champion) and the Ikoma daimyo, with the former abdicating in favour of her son, Shinjo Shono, who as the new Unicorn Champion will marry a matsu bride.
• Around the beginning of the RPG
  • Prince Hantei Sotorii, crown prince and heir primary, is rather perfunctorily passed through his gempukku. In one unfortunately public incident, a servant trips and can't get out of the way fast enough for the prince's liking and Sotorii - who is really not a very nice person - beheads them.
  • There are several large-scale attacks on the wall by shadowlands forces. Crab forces are overstretched and - particularly - they are running short of Jade.
  • Tsume no Doji Takashi is betrothed to a Phoenix bride, Shiba Itsuyo. The wedding...does not go well. His childhood sweetheart, Reiha - a geisha from the town - crashes the ceremony and turns out to be both the sole survivor of the Akodo no Damasu and his father's murderer. The mess ends with both her and Takashi dead, and Tsume no Doji Itsuyo as Daimyo of Kyotei.
  • Winter court is supposed to - as well as the usual political melee - arrange who will be betrothed to Hantei Sotorii (and hence the next Empress). This is...obviously....going to be Doji Chiyoe, the Crane Clan's darling and groomed for the role.
    • At the last minute and unexpectedly, Yoritomo, Mantis Clan Champion turns up. A minor clan samurai at winter court is a minor scandal all by itself (it's due - unknown to Yoritomo, to some Kolat meddling) but he's also arrived with an extremely pretty young niece in tow.....
  • Doji Satsume is having extended exchanges of letters with a close confidante in the Imperial Court about the two princes. His view is that one is too cruel, and the other too weak, to make a good emperor, and is looking to find 'a solution' which would allow them to grow into better rulers before they inherit the throne suddenly from their relatively elderly father.
    • Rather unfortunately, said confidante turns out to be a member of the Kolat who would quite like to see the Imperial Line screw up, and when they find out Satsume has a workable-sounding plan, they have him murdered.
    • The investigation of this death by the Emerald Magistrates, working for Agasha Sumiko, the Ruby champion (and now acting Emerald Champion) returns a verdict of 'natural causes'. Largely because they find the Kolat connection and don't want to cause a scandal by announcing it publicly.
    • Doji Hotaru accepts the verdict, but Doji Kuwanan, Satsume's younger child, doesn't. He's convinced there's a cover-up (he's right) and decides it obviously must be the Scorpion Clan responsible (he's wrong). Since his older sister is....involved.....with the Imperial Advisor, Bayushi Kachiko, he becomes half convinced they've plotted it together.
• First chunk of fictions
  • Shinjo Altansarnai discovers that the Lion Clan have neglected to mention that Ikoma Anzaku was already married, that his formally Phoenix bride had been thrown out on her ear to provide a suitably high-status husband, and that she intended to kill herself in Altansarnai's home in protest.
    • Compassion being one of the most important bushido tenets to the Unicorn, she takes this rather badly, repudiating the treaty and essentially declaring war on the Lion Clan.
    • The Lion Clan respond by seizing one of the villages the treaty would have granted them by force.
    • The Unicorn ambassador to the courts doesn't get to see the Emperor but does get to see the Miya daimyo, who - unofficially - says "the Lion have been getting too big for their boots, go get 'em. You have the throne's totally deniable blessing."
  • The Crab are also trying to see the Emperor to ask for troops, weapons and Jade. They also don't get to see the Emperor, and instead see the chancellor, Kakita Yoshi.
    • Yoshi is courteous to the ambassador, but basically tells him "No. Bugger off."
    • Yasuki Taka, the Crab Ambassador, manages to get in touch with Yoritomo, who basically offers to fence the weapons and jade that Mantis pirates privateers enterprising merchants have acquired....mostly from Crane vessels, through the Crab. He gets a deniable, safe market on the mainland for stolen cargo, they get weapons and jade without having to pay the proper price, the wall's defences are reinforced and the Empire is safer. Everyone's a winner (except the Crane, obviously).
  • The phoenix are increasingly stressed about the Elemental imbalance, especially since the Elemental Master of Fire's apprentice publically flambés himself when he loses control of an invocation.
    • Shiba Tsukune inherits the Championship unexpectedly. Everyone assumes her older brother was destined for it, but the ancestral weapon responds to her instead.
    • Isawa Kaede has a vision of something very bad happening in the capital and is concerned that Meishodo - the Unicorn's talisman/name magic, is somehow responsible for the elemental imbalance.
      • She tries to get it banned by imperial decree.
      • She fails, but the Seppun only allow the Unicorn to keep practicing it on condition that a high-ranking Unicorn hostage also teach the Seppun meishodo, so they can know how to guard against it if it ever proves a threat to the Emperor.
    • Iuchi Shahai, the Iuchi Daimyo's daughter, is sent to the capital as the instructor.
      • She's an emotional teenager, and a free-spirited unicorn, so she doesn't do terribly well in the stifling formality of the palace.
  • The Lion respond to the death of Doji Satsume by attempting to sieze back Toshi Ranbo
    • This does not go well, and ends with Akodo Aramoro being shot in the head by an arrow loosed by Doji Hotaru herself, in front of Matsu Tsuko, who is [a] his betrothed, [ b] the Lion Clan's senior military commander, and [c] about as emotionally stable as an Italian taxi driver stuck behind two old priests in a skoda.
  • Aramoro's brother, Akodo Toturi, becomes Lion clan champion and surprisingly alienates his family daimyos by not immediately advocating a policy of all-out extermination of every living thing in crane lands, right down to the chickens.
• To try and sideline him out of the way, they talk him into putting his name forward as a potential new Emerald Champion.

The dragon are having trouble with something called the Perfect Land Sect. This is a - mostly peasant - cult which believes, basically, that samurai should actually show some respect and courtesy; it has no inherent problem with them being in charge, but it claims they've forgotten that respect and loyalty is supposed to flow both ways up and down a feudal structure. It also claims that Shinsei himself is supposed to be reborn, and will be once the sect has enough members.

• At the same time, Togashi Yokuni has a deeply unpleasant vision of non-specific bad stuff happening to the capital. He drags Togshi Mitsu, his heir, in and sends him off with most of the Dragon Clan's army, with instructions to 'aid the prince'. Prophecy being what it is, he's not specific about which prince, something which causes trouble later on.

Second chunk of fictions

• The Emperor declares there will be a tournament to find the new Emerald Champion. This is awkward for a number of reasons:
  • Bayushi Kachiko had more or less convinced herself she could talk the emperor into just appointing one - she had a scorpion samurai, Bayushi Aramoro, lined up for the post.
• Kakita Yoshi is irked to discover that during the tournament and the mourning for Doji Satsume, the Emperor will consider no further laws or edicts, meaning he can't use his influence to stop the fighting around Toshi Ranbo.

Both assume the other is responsible for manipulating the Emperor to thwart their schemes. Both are wrong. Kachiko tries to 'fix' the tournament, ordering Bayushi Yojiro to help Bayushi Aramoro cheat.

• As an honourable scorpion - or at least as honourable as they get - he agrees, and does as he is ordered, but simultaneously warns the other finalist, Akodo Toturi.

Thanks to this Toturi wins, and is the new Emerald Champion. He also marries Isawa, now Akodo, Kaede, who is surprised and pleased to find the Lion Clan champion is a lot better educated, patient and generally a nicer and more thoughtful person than she'd been expecting. The elemental master of earth's apprentice, Isawa Tadaka, gets into an argument with his master about experiments with rather darker techniques.

• This escalates to a formal shujenga's duel, but he still won't back down and basically storms off, heading south.

He ultimately falls in with Kuni " please step into my nefarious laboratory " Yori, the Kuni daimyo, who is also messing around with stuff that is cursed, forbidden, and likely to result in tentacles. Doji Kuwanan is captured by the Lion clan - or more accurately, by ronin claiming to work for the lion clan but who the Lion's field commander has never heard of. He's presented, trussed up like an oven-ready chicken, to Matsu Tsuko. She's calmed down - a bit - and is suspicious enough to execute the ronin and to let him go; to try and find out who's trying to manipulate both sides.

• Kuwanan defaults once again to "The Scorpion Clan Are Behind Everything" and after a massive argument with his sister heads to the capital to investigate "Exactly How The Scorpion Clan Did It".

The Unicorn take back the village the Lion clan seized. In the process, Shinjo Shono's betrothed dies at Shono's hands.

• He actually liked her and is really not happy with his mother about how events have played out.

Toshi Ranbo is declared to be an Imperial holding, ending the fighting over it.

• specifically, it's given to the scorpion to administrate, really angering both the Lion and the Crane.

More specifically still, Bayushi Yojiro is made governor by Bayushi Shoju, the Scorpion champion, because (a) he's honest and not ambitious and (b) if he doesn't get Yojiro out of the capital either Kachiko or Aramoro will probably have him murdered for messing up their attempt to steal the Emerald Championate. Shahai is teaching the Seppun meshido techniques. they're not very good, and frankly she's not trying to hard to teach.

• She's hating her life and considers seppuku right up until the point where she meets Hantei Daisetsu, the heir secondary, and the two fall for one another quite seriously.

I should probably point out that her father is the Iuchi Daimyo. Her mother, before marriage, was a Scorpion of the Yogo family. The latter is not widely known. Second big chunk of fictions

• One of the Crab's watchtowers has gone 'quiet' and an expedition is put together to go and investigate

Shinjo Shono is sent as an ambassador to one of the Unicorn's foreign holdings. In the process it becomes clear that the Moto have designs on the Unicorn Clan leadership. A phoenix looking for Isawa Tadaka blunders into Kuni Yori's laboratory and is arrested by the Crab and framed as a maho-tsukai. She escapes - just. The Emperor discloses privately to the Emerald Champion that he plans to abdicate. He's old, and tired, and becoming short-sighted.

• The last is a bigger deal than it sounds, because it means he has to trust his advisors to tell him what a given report says, and that what he says should be written in an edict actually is. It's hinted he doesn't really trust Bayushi Kachiko anymore.

In addition to abdicating, he intendeds to remove Hantei Sotorii from the line of succession in favour of Hantei Daisetsu, his younger brother and (currently) heir secondary. Since Daisetsu hasn't passed gempukku yet, that means he needs a regent. He's picked Bayushi Shoju, the scorpion clan champion. As ordered, Akodo Toturi writes an edict to this effect, and the Emperor signs it. Because the Emperor has apparently never watched Gladiator , he chooses to tell Sotorii about his decision later that night, with no witnesses, before formally publishing the edict or telling anyone except Totori and Shoju that it exists.

• Predictably, Sotorii takes this badly, and kills his father.
  • Bayushi Kachiko walks in on the murder scene, and - due to a combination of " prevent imperial scandal " reflex and " opportunity to blackmail next emperor " ambition, covers the death up for the heir, having all the servants involved killed and making an announcement that the Emperor 'died suddenly of natural causes'.
• Miya Satoshi, the Miya Daimyo, also walks in, and - after some cajoling - is convinced to go along with the deception to protect the Hantei name.
  • It should be noted, however, that Satoshi is secretly Master Chrysanthemum, the Kolat master responsible for both Satsume's death and Yoritomo's unexpected invitation to Winter Court. He's not done anything with the information yet, but the Kolat knowing the Scorpion are covering up a Regicide is almost certain to bite them in the backside soon.....

As 'the only other person who knows' about the edict, she sends Bayushi Aramoro to assassinate the Emerald Champion.

• He does a pretty good number on Akodo Toturi, but Kaede, his wife - and a gifted shujenga - is able to save him. Kaede and Toturi flee the capital. He has since returned secretly to investigate, but hasn't done much yet.

Sotorii - overcome with guilt - is going to commit seppuku when Shahai stumbles over him.

• She demands to know what's going on, and Daisetsu joins them. The news that the Emperor is dead catches up to them and Daisetsu (correctly) deduces Sotorii killed their father.

They brawl and Sotorii is going to attack his brother with a blade. Shahai stops him, using a small knife and wounding him in the hand. He starts screaming for the seppun guards. Daisetsu realises she's just drawn the blood of not just a hantei prince but probably the reigning emperor, and as such the guards will kill her without waiting to hear an explanation. He shows her a secret exit and they both flee the palace. She realises, as they flee, that the meishodo talisman she's been creating as part of the instruction has had the side effect of shutting down the magical wards of the inner palace - which is why both the Emperor and Sotorii could have their blood spilled without alarms going off and seppun heavies rugby-tackling everyone involved in 0.001 seconds. Meaning in a very real sense much of this is her fault. Kachiko has a rather awkward conversation with Bayushi Shoju, who she discovers to her chagrin also knows about the edict and what was supposed to happen. Her husband sends her out of the capital to Toshi Ranbo, basically in exile. Doji Kuwanan, investigating the palace, finds a letter from his sister to Kachiko, which basically declares undying love and says she wants to abandon the clan and run away with the scorpion.

• It's actually a forgery, placed there by a scorpion daimyo who dislikes Kachiko, but Kuwanan and Yoshi believe it anyway, and Kuwanan basically declares a civil war.

Yoshi finds out at the same time that the emperor is dead and the Scorpion have the regency, and they basically decide it's all a big scorpion coup attempt. Yoshi and the Unicorn sign up to an informal alliance against Shoju. Kuwanan tries and fails to 'rescue the true heir' (Sotorii) who's being packed off to a monastery. He fails, thanks to the intervention of the Dragon (whose army has arrived to shore up the palace) but Sotorii escapes both Kuwanan and the Seppun. We haven't seen where he went yet, but it's sure to cause trouble. The dragon army turns up to help. No longer sure which prince he's supposed to helm, togashi mitsu sets off after Daisetsu and Shahai, whilst leaving the army under the command of Agasha Sumiko, the ruby champion.

• One particularly smart and insightful Kitsu spots inconsistencies in palace routine and through some smart deduction realises about Bayushi Kachiko's cover-up, and - presumably - that the Emperor was murdered.....

Matsu Tsuko, who's been stewing in her anger since Aramoro dies, loses her tempter with Toturi for not doing anything to punish the crane, and responds by invading crane lands and attacking Kyuden Kakita. In the process she declares herself Lion Clan Champion and most of the army goes along with it. With the major clans kicking off against one another - and themselves - six ways from sunday, opportunistic minor clans, such as the Hare, start snatching up easily captured territories around their borders. That's basically where we are today.

Thanks for the quick and dirty summary of the events. Much appreciated.

I will say that despite certain factors being different, the AEG Clan War and the FFG version of the Clan War kicks off due to many of the same reasons though the fuse that sets them off and how it gets to that point is refreshingly different. As has been observed by an Eastern Philosopher, it is not the destination, but the journey that makes it so enjoyable. Well done FFG!

1 hour ago, neilcell said:

I will say that despite certain factors being different, the AEG Clan War and the FFG version of the Clan War kicks off due to many of the same reasons though the fuse that sets them off and how it gets to that point is refreshingly different.

On this note, I would say that FFG is not even aiming for "the" Clan War but a more spread-out civil war where most conflict happens within the Clans and not between them.

An absolutely wonderful writeup, @Magnus Grendel .

Couple little quibbles, I guess.

Quote

The Crab are also trying to see the Emperor to ask for troops, weapons and Jade. They also don't get to see the Emperor, and instead see the chancellor, Kakita Yoshi.

• Yoshi is courteous to the ambassador, but basically tells him "No. Bugger off."

Should be: On the Emperor and Kachiko's Order, Yoshi is courteous to the ambassador, but basically tells him "No. Bugger off."

And yes, I'll keep beating that drum.

Quote

One particularly smart and insightful Kitsu spots inconsistencies in palace routine and through some smart deduction realises about Bayushi Kachiko's cover-up, and - presumably - that the Emperor was murdered.....

Should be One particularly smart and insightful Kitsuki

Quote

It's actually a forgery, placed there by a scorpion daimyo who dislikes Kachiko, but Kuwanan and Yoshi believe it anyway, and Kuwanan basically declares a civil war.

Should be It may or may not be a forgery, placed there by Kachiko's brother, a scorpion daimyo who dislikes Kachiko, but Kuwanan and Yoshi believe it anyway, and Kuwanan basically declares a civil war.

There's probably a few more, and apologize for the quibble, but your writeup was so good it's worth saving to cut and paste elsewhere as needed, so I wanted to make a note.

23 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Fiction timeline can be found here:

I doff my cap to you good sir

On 2/24/2020 at 12:13 PM, AtoMaki said:

On this note, I would say that FFG is not even aiming for "the" Clan War but a more spread-out civil war where most conflict happens within the Clans and not between them.

Fair point. Either way, the long standing edicts preventing large-scale mobilization of the clans and upheaval in the Empire after a period of relative peace is still the same.

But yes, you are correct that that little nuance changed how one can view the Clan Wars while still retaining the overall name. And it is a nice change from the perception that the clans are monolithic.

5 hours ago, neilcell said:

And it is a nice change from the perception that the clans are monolithic.

Yeah....there's a LOT more internal tension in the clans this time around.

5 hours ago, neilcell said:

the long standing edicts preventing large-scale mobilization of the clans

Three small caveats with that one:

• Two imperial edicts forbid great clans to make open war on each other, and on minor clans. However:
  • It's amazing what you can get away with under the banner of 'punitive action' and 'border dispute' rather than 'war'
  • Since they were absent from Rokugan whilst the edicts in question were issued, neither edict mentions the Unicorn clan amongst the listed Great Clans, making them 'legal' as both aggressor and victim.
  • There is, strictly speaking, no legal bar to open war between minor clans, if they share a border or are otherwise able to attack one another's territory.

7 hours ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Yeah....there's a LOT more internal tension in the clans this time around.

Three small caveats with that one:

• Two imperial edicts forbid great clans to make open war on each other, and on minor clans. However:
  • It's amazing what you can get away with under the banner of 'punitive action' and 'border dispute' rather than 'war'
  • Since they were absent from Rokugan whilst the edicts in question were issued, neither edict mentions the Unicorn clan amongst the listed Great Clans, making them 'legal' as both aggressor and victim.
  • There is, strictly speaking, no legal bar to open war between minor clans, if they share a border or are otherwise able to attack one another's territory.

What about Minor Clans on Great Clans? If they strike first do they become a valid target?