15 minutes ago, Mokoshkana said:

How is a unit with 6hp and armor getting one shot?

See other replies below.

9 minutes ago, Caimheul1313 said:

Impact Grenades and Phase 1 Clone Troopers with RPS-6 using fire support with an identical unit can both form dice pools with Impact 6.

10 minutes ago, Lochlan said:

He specified other armor units throwing 9+ dice. An AT-ST with the 88 Twin Light Blaster has 9 dice with Impact 4, meaning it just needs to roll at least 2 crits and 4 hits, which is certainly not a rare result.

Edit: Heck, a Saber with Armor Piercing Shells has 9 dice with Impact 5 and Critical 1. It is almost guaranteed to produce at least 6 crits against targets with Armor.

Really doubt that there will be any cross faction hardpoint upgrades in this. Because then u would be forcing rebel players to pick up a GAR expansion just for an upgrade card. My speculation it that all the hardpoint upgrades in this with be GAR at-rt specific.

3 minutes ago, JediPartisan said:

See other replies below.

Some of this can be avoided (e.g. grenades) relatively easily. As for everything else, if we want to play statistics, then the AT-RT will require at least 7 hits getting through as statistically it will get 1 save out of 6 dice. Tack on an aggressive tactics and we are looking at needing 8. I don't think one shots will happen often enough to truly worry about it.

6 minutes ago, lunitic501 said:

Really doubt that there will be any cross faction hardpoint upgrades in this. Because then u would be forcing rebel players to pick up a GAR expansion just for an upgrade card. My speculation it that all the hardpoint upgrades in this with be GAR at-rt specific.

Which would also require an FAQ change to the Rebel AT-RTs to make them read "Rebel AT-RT only" unless FFG is somehow modifying the name of the Republic version of the AT-RT... Which is also possible, and actually is probably likely given the name of the unit on the box (AT-RT De La Republica or Republic AT-RT) is different from the name on the Rebel AT-RT box (AT-RT).

So it looks like there will be no cross faction hardpoint upgrades for this unit, since the units have different names.

3 minutes ago, Mokoshkana said:

Some of this can be avoided (e.g. grenades) relatively easily. As for everything else, if we want to play statistics, then the AT-RT will require at least 7 hits getting through as statistically it will get 1 save out of 6 dice. Tack on an aggressive tactics and we are looking at needing 8. I don't think one shots will happen often enough to truly worry about it.

It may be even less likely depending on the defence die of the "Republic AT-RT."

8 minutes ago, Mokoshkana said:

Some of this can be avoided (e.g. grenades) relatively easily. As for everything else, if we want to play statistics, then the AT-RT will require at least 7 hits getting through as statistically it will get 1 save out of 6 dice. Tack on an aggressive tactics and we are looking at needing 8. I don't think one shots will happen often enough to truly worry about it.

Bad dice rolls don’t care about statistics. 😁 It is by no means a guarantee tha it can’t be one shotted and even with AT, is very possible. Also, even if it isn’t one shotted, if it’s left with 2 health after 1 attack, it’s not much better. There is a reason RTs were not used when the DLT was ubiquitous.

18 minutes ago, lunitic501 said:

Really doubt that there will be any cross faction hardpoint upgrades in this. Because then u would be forcing rebel players to pick up a GAR expansion just for an upgrade card. My speculation it that all the hardpoint upgrades in this with be GAR at-rt specific.

Star Wars Legion seems to like to repeat the mistakes of other FFG so I would not bet one way or another on it. This is their first big cross faction unit so it will be very interesting to see which way they go.

At best I would say no cross faction hard points, but I can see some generic upgrades being needed for both the At-RTs and speeders. Which they will offer in the card packs coming to a store near you!!

Just now, RyantheFett said:

Star Wars Legion seems to like to repeat the mistakes of other FFG so I would not bet one way or another on it. This is their first big cross faction unit so it will be very interesting to see which way they go.

At best I would say no cross faction hard points, but I can see some generic upgrades being needed for both the At-RTs and speeders. Which they will offer in the card packs coming to a store near you!!

Except I'm fairly certain it's arguably not a truly cross faction unit. It has a different name (Republic AT-RT), and may have different stats (defence die, movement, keywords, etc). They just happen to look similar/the same except for pilot.

27 minutes ago, lunitic501 said:

Really doubt that there will be any cross faction hardpoint upgrades in this. Because then u would be forcing rebel players to pick up a GAR expansion just for an upgrade card. My speculation it that all the hardpoint upgrades in this with be GAR at-rt specific.

I don’t think you remember the history of FFG here.

It happened in xwing, both 1.0 and 2.0 (putting stuff in a card pack 8 months later doesn’t count). It has somewhat happened in Legion to a degree, albeit better than others (I maintain the generic empire and rebel vehicle pilot should have been in the card pack but they gotta sell the new heavies, and there’s been some other offset discrepancy)

I find it highly likely the new RT will have stuff Rebels want.

12 minutes ago, Mokoshkana said:

Some of this can be avoided (e.g. grenades) relatively easily. As for everything else, if we want to play statistics, then the AT-RT will require at least 7 hits getting through as statistically it will get 1 save out of 6 dice. Tack on an aggressive tactics and we are looking at needing 8. I don't think one shots will happen often enough to truly worry about it.

If we're talking about a Rebel AT-RT then yes it is not far off from being destroyed in a single shot from a TX-130 with AP missiles. Without an aim or surge token (it helps, but not by much) it averages 5.75 hits. With an aim that jumps up to just under 7. Without an aim or surge (best possible result for the RT), the RT will be destroyed 21% of the time. The odds are in your favor, but still not great. With an aim and surge (Worst possible result for the RT), the RT will be destroyed 48% of the time. That's coin flip odds. One shots will happen, and happen enough that it matters.

Rebels rarely run aggressive tactics as most of their troops don't benefit from it, but if you want to insist the RT will be destroyed 9-27% of the time. Better, but again, Rebels don't run aggressive tactics as the list of units that benefit are too short.

The Republic RT is potentially a different story as we don't have it's stats.

6 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:

I find it highly likely the new RT will have stuff Rebels want.

Assuming the upgrade icons are the same, then I contend the only upgrade that the "AT-RT" will be able to take from the "Republic AT-RT" unit is any comms upgrades, which could be easily included in the Wren/Cassian unit boxes.

Republic AT-RT will 100% have different stats, even if only one singular thing is different.

Because the pilot will not have an A-300 rifle (kind of hope he has the full DC-15 but it'll probably be DC-15A). It's also likely the defense die will be Red for the pilot's armor, and might have no surge, but they could move around the keywords (like maybe a clone pilot is Tactical 1 by default).

Hardpoints could be different, but might also just be the same under a different unit restriction (possibly with built in cost adjustment).

2 minutes ago, UnitOmega said:

It's also likely the defense die will be Red for the pilot's armor, and might have no surge, but they could move around the keywords (like maybe a clone pilot is Tactical 1 by default).

It won't have both red dice and armor. It might have armor X but not armor.

1 minute ago, thepopemobile100 said:

It won't have both red dice and armor. It might have armor X but not armor.

This is a good point, the ARF troopers are listed on Wookieepedia as having lighter armour, which would indicate it is probably supposed to be equivalent to scout clone trooper armour.

2 hours ago, bwingstrike said:

Doesn't look like a clone on the AT-RT. Looks too dark, what else rode them in the Clone Wars?

It's probably a clone in the camo scout trooper-esk armor.

31 minutes ago, thepopemobile100 said:

It won't have both red dice and armor. It might have armor X but not armor.

Red dice and armor isnt broken though. The GAV has both and you can still take them down.

It will at least have white dice plus defense surge tho

1 minute ago, KommanderKeldoth said:

Red dice and armor isnt broken though. The GAV has both and you can still take them down.

Red Dice and armor on a 6HP support unit with no weak point would be broken.

Every other unit with both red dice and armor has had weak point X to help chew through that defense. Even the GAV, the weakest of the three, takes a lot of punishment. I don't want to see a precedent of red dice and hard armor on a support unit, period. Leave that for heavies.

Phase I/II ARF armor doesn't really seem lighter...

Though that guy has a RPS on is back maybe? That'd be interesting, what if they had the gunner or arsenal slot instead and the Pilot can add something like the RPS or DC-15 instead of changing the hard point.

3 hours ago, bwingstrike said:

Doesn't look like a clone on the AT-RT. Looks too dark, what else rode them in the Clone Wars?

Looks like the clone scout trooper to me. They wore dark colors.

1 hour ago, thepopemobile100 said:

Red Dice and armor on a 6HP support unit with no weak point would be broken.

Every other unit with both red dice and armor has had weak point X to help chew through that defense. Even the GAV, the weakest of the three, takes a lot of punishment. I don't want to see a precedent of red dice and hard armor on a support unit, period. Leave that for heavies.

I agree a 6HP unit with Armour and red defence dice FOR 55 POINTS would be broken, with the GAV only having 2 more HP but coming it at almost 3 times the cost (155 Points), but there would be nothing broken about an ATRT with Red defence Dice that costs 125 or so points, players would just complain a lot about how garbage it is and that its unplayable!!

As it is the Rebel ATRT is super efficiently costed for how hard it is to kill without dedicated armour units, and cheap enough that if your opponent does bring anti armour the cost of doing so isn't worth the poultry amount or points you get for actually killing one.

I would expect that the Republic ATRT will have a white defence with Surge and cost more points, either way its probably still going to be a cheap armour unit that GAR will benefit from I'm sure.

3 minutes ago, Mace Windu said:

I would expect that the Republic ATRT will have a white defence with Surge and cost more points, either way its probably still going to be a cheap armour unit that GAR will benefit from I'm sure

This is more in line with what I actually expect to happen and I think that's perfectly fine.

My point is that red defense with armor isn't suited for support units. At the costs that it would be appropriate to exist, it would be competing with heavies which a basic support shouldn't be doing.

As has been stated before this is the "Republican AT-RT", so by its very name it's already a completely different unit. So I would be quite surprised if it wasn't going to be different in quite some regards to the Rebel AT-RT, particularly when it comes to point costs.

Case in point: Clones have access to the Z-6, yet they still pay different point costs for the upgrade model than the Rebels do. The cards also have different names, same as the new clone AT-RT does.

Clones do not have access to the DLT.

They pay differently for the Z-6 because they have a different underlying body for it, which is why Phase I and II clones also pay slightly different costs per Z-6, or why different imperial units have slightly different cost for a DLT depending on the unit. That said, the underlying unit will probably be different for reasons outlined above (after all the Rebel and Republic factions have different strategies and identity).

16 minutes ago, UnitOmega said:

Clones do not have access to the DLT.

They pay differently for the Z-6 because they have a different underlying body for it, which is why Phase I and II clones also pay slightly different costs per Z-6, or why different imperial units have slightly different cost for a DLT depending on the unit. That said, the underlying unit will probably be different for reasons outlined above (after all the Rebel and Republic factions have different strategies and identity).

Right, it's the DC-15, my bad, I'll edit that. Thanks for pointing it out. The point I was trying to make though was that as long as the name on the card is different, almost anything goes. So it's a bad idea to assume anything about the Clone AT-RT by looking at the Rebel AT-RT.

--

Also, if anyone is wondering about the cover art of the Replican AT-RT box, it's from the scene where Yoda is hiding from the clones pursuing him in Episode III after Order 66, which takes place at night. As far as I remember it's the scene where AT-RTs get the most screentime outside of the animated series.

Interesting way to make the unit distinct besides the aforementioned red die for armor would be to give the pilot some kind of side arm option; so you could take a naked at-rt and have a side arm like a DC-15 or other squad weapon to make it like a fast dew back.

no clue how you would balance it, but that’s what game designers are for lol

1 hour ago, OOM-Roger Doger said:

Case in point: Clones have access to the Z-6, yet they still pay different point costs for the upgrade model than the Rebels do.

No they actually don't. The pay a different cost for the body holding the Z-6, but not the Z-6 itself.

Rebel Trooper with Z-6: 10 points for Rebel Trooper + 12 points for Z-6 = 22 points

Phase 1 Clone with Z-6: 13 points for P1 Clone Trooper + 12 points for Z-6 = 25 points

Phase 2 Clone with Z-6: 15 points for P2 Clone Trooper + 12 points for Z-6 = 27 points