Yeah of course I've seen a few games where they are clutch, but generally I see them as a point trap. Let's start a conversation on where they are actually good, where they are not.
Reminder, we're talking over-term over 20 games if the bomb truly has value for winning more games, and if the squad with that ship and those bombs is a good list that wins a lot as well, preferably against Tier1 competitive.
Feel free to reply and quote sections as you see fit.

1. On 2 ship firesprays - apparently highly successful - apparently BoFrost really needs them. I suspect its also in part creating a chasing avenue and forcing the opponent to converge due to only 2 ships to focus on. Anyone have thoughts here on applications, tips, important features?

2. On other large ships, like Decimators - Never heard of it being successful - In principle people say its needed on these ships with low damage. But rarely in 1.0 have I ever seen a worthwhile bomb drop (granted they were twice if not 4 times as expensive). In 2.0 I'd argue the same flight patterns would apply, I would need to see proof that in 2.0 flight patterns are different than in 1.0 attack a Decimator. (Possible: Decimators no longer have boost, and a lot of mobility has been toned down, esp with turrets and aces). Decimators suffer from feeling like they want both reinforce&focus or focus&turretturn. Only RAC gets away from this, and he's already expensive.

3. Tie bombers - Ew no. - These things just would rather be boring barrage rockets chassi. Their hull configuration makes them poor in addition, and not really worth more than their value naked with just bombs. Also Sep bombers do this job better.

4. Strikers - ??? - talk to me.

5. Y wings - ??? - ew, I don't think these get in front of stuff enough.

6. Resistance bombers - possible - I dont feel like this is worth it value wise against normal lists. Against slow lists, or swarms, likely good value, but only vs those. Otherwise the chassis is too expensive.

7. Mines on Sep bombers pooping them out 1 forward with landing struts. - highly successful

8. [reserved]

One of the main issues has been the chassis cost, generally not that great value. Seismics also are a bit weirder nowadays, so the simple 1 damage bomb out the back is now a 5 point Proton Bomb, which would have been 2.5 points in 1e. And even though you get two charges, a lot of times, you won't get a useful opportunity to drop the 2nd bomb.

if the opponent is forced to change course to avoid the bomb, one has to value the proposition:
If they lose their shot, but so you do, and then you both reengage with no serious favor on either side, the only value could be stall for 1 turn or helping you fix your position, maybe for 1 extra action. An action is worth about 3 points, but also might not be game-saving at the moment a bomb is useful. Often with this situation, the net value gained is ZERO. So, don't go around saying: "Oh but it forced them to change course!" I'll give you a great quote from another game: "It doesn't win games to spend the majority your points/attacks doing 'area denial', that's a subversive way of saying 'paying for attacks that miss'". In that other game, it was also often the case that the created area denial was not useful enough to the rest of the team to capitalize on, thus causing zero gained value, and having a huge cost in opportunity cost that often led to losing games more than winning them.

If they take an alternate path, but can fix it via a boost or something and it costs an action or a focus, that's generally worth about 2-3 points.

Reminder, if you pay 3 points, and you get 3 points back, you're net even, not actually get any advantage at all really.

Sol Sixxa with Skilled Bombardier. That's quite a coverage, especially with seismic. Unfortunately no reload, and Scurrg melts fast if you are not careful.

In my experience, the only way old fashioned bombs like protons and seismics work is when you run them in multiples and create a net. It's so easy to avoid a single bomb because they are so easy to predict and pretty much every ship can reposition, but drop 2 or 3 bombs at once in combination with some obstacles and you can actually force some damage through. Add in Sabine crew so that being caught by even one bomb means getting tractored into more bombs and obstacles, which in turn can mean being ionized into more bombs next turn, and you can start having some real fun.

If you want to run just an single payload in a list, it should unequivocally be Prox Mines, and ideally on a high initiative pilot. On Boba I have found it to be equivalent to getting a free attack during the system phase.

My 2 cents:

Double Deci won last Italian National, losing just one game out of both days. They both have proximity mines

6 Hyenas w/proximity won last Brazilian National

Boba/Fenn also have proximity in extended format, and seems a must have in general on Boba, specially if in a 2 ships builds. In Hyperspace are swapped with proton bombs, wich have a bigger denial zone, and can damage multiple ships at once (CIS swarms)

I think they're easily wasted but can have significant impact for any list. Like most things, if you're paying points to include something, you need a clear idea on how you're going to leverage it. If you have that clear idea then you'll be able to earn value from it with your play.

Potentially.

If you put any upgrade in a list because you can afford it and it may be useful, then you're asking your opponent to provide that usefulness, rather than guaranteeing it yourself.

I don't think there's categorical good/bad times to have them in a squad, (aside from the obvious). It just boils down to whether you've built and played the squad to maximise the return from everything you've included.

Personally, I've only ever really made good use of them on double Sprays. Almost every other list I've made where I could use them, it becomes too many points, with too much set up, and takes away from the bread and butter of just throwing dice efficiently. Essentially making the list fun , rather than competitive .

I disagree with pretty much everything in the OP, but I don't even know where to start

When are bombs ever truly worth their value? When you fly Emon Azzameen.

I'm a big fan of bombs. They may not do much damage, but they make your opponents adjust to them. You have affected your opponent before the first obstacle is placed. You are influencing how things will play out as soon as they know what your list is. . .even if you never drop a single bomb and especially if they are flying a swarm of unshielded ships.

Here's my favorite Hyperspace list right now. It's fun. Boba Fett crew makes the first turn interesting.

Emon Azzameen (71)
Boba Fett (4)
Seismic Charges (3)
Hull Upgrade (5)
Andrasta (3)
Proton Bombs (5)

Joy Rekkoff (52)
Outmaneuver (6)

Serissu (41)
Hull Upgrade (7)
Tractor Beam (3)
Total: 200

View in Yet Another Squad Builder 2.0

I usually bring a Seismic Charge if points allow. I rarely attempt to actually do damage when dropping bombs, but forcing opponents to either select evasive maneuvers in case I decide to explode an obstace, or scrambling to get out of the way when I do, is often very valuable. My local meta is full of low HP aces, and a single hit scored on Soontir Fel or Fenn Rau is certainly worth 3 points. Removing rocks has the added bonus of making it easier for my Decimator/TIE Punisher/Y-Wing to maneuver later on. If I'm facing Separatists, there's now one less rock for them to tractor me onto, it clamp onto with their struts.

If I'm bringing Proton Bombs, it's usually because I have a second bomber, ideally one that's built to last at little bit longer than most. A pair of K-Wings, with one carrying Seismics and Sabine, with the other carrying Proton Bombs, has worked pretty well for me. I'm excited to give the new missile a go on these guys, since it's pretty much ideal for a ship with a bowtie arc and now built in forward gun.

Constable Zuvio. I like proton bombs on him. He has a built in launch and can scuttle backwards way from the blast. Just one option for him.

(33) Constable Zuvio [Quadrijet Transfer Spacetug]
(4) Cad Bane
(5) Proton Bombs
(5) Pattern Analyzer
Points: 47

Total points: 47

I have never run him with Cad Bane, but it does seem like fun.

With current pricing, there is but one (as denoted above by @stootchmaster 😞

However, I have yet to have one to try, this little beauty should be able to hit the mats at a high level, given the right pilot:

And don't give me any of that "dies to easy crap," I don't buy it in the hands of the right pilot.

...and, if you care to know, the tea is quite good.

When they cause damage?

I'll go on a tangent and approach this from a different (thematic) point of view.

Tbh, I'm OK with bombs not having a huge effect in dogfighting (ie. standard 200/6 gameplay). Please correct me if I'm wrong, and I might very well be, but we don't often see representations of eg. Tie bombers being used specifically do destroy fighter craft.

Thematically speaking, bombs are appropriate for attacking (preferably immobile) ground targets while minimizing exposure of the bomber craft to anti air retaliation. If you refer to real battles, the closest thing we'd have to bombs being used against other active combat craft in a 3d space would probably be depth charges VS. Submarines, which have low maneuverability, and thus will have trouble avoiding the devices. That, or aircraft bombing capital ships, which might as well be ground targets given their slow speed and restriction to a single plane of movement.

With that in mind, maybe that's what bombs should really shine at...? Faster ships attacking immobile or slow targets.

I guess what I mean is: bombs don't really need to be super competitive in standard if we can get more scenario play in the game.

6 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

I disagree with pretty much everything in the OP, but I don't even know where to start

Yep. This is another nonsense thread from someone who doesn’t understand the game.

Sometimes the threat of a bomb is more useful than its use. If your opponent has a higher initiative and is more agile the threat of swallowing a proton bomb can force him to attack from the sides, useful for turreted ships.

Running through asteroids or debris fields is another situation where bombs are useful. Especially against an aggressive opponent. Or one that lacks patience. A boost or barrel roll would be useless to get outside of the blast radius. Once again forcing him off your "6" or making him take that range 3 shot.

Another situation where they can be very useful, if you are willing to take damage, is the furball. If you think your opponent is going to block you to limit actions or force you to make a less than optimal move, drop a bomb. Bombers usually have much higher health so a hit or two is no big deal.

6 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

I disagree with pretty much everything in the OP, but I don't even know where to start

Here ya go:

Blail let's be real buddy. Right now I'm maining x5 Grey squadron (or Republic Equivalent) with Ion Cannon Turrets + Proton Bombs.

And since you did a good turn for me in the X-Wing thread, I wanna' help you here. You know when Bombs are good?

When you have a LOT of them, and can guarantee your enemy's position. Here's the thing buddy, you have to fly something with a reload. Red is fine, it doesn't matter. You aren't moving fast. You're a bomber. Now with Y-Wings, the last thing you want is for all your foes to be in front of you. Trouble is, turn 1-2, they will be. But they'll pass around for another attack. This is when you wanna' use those bombs and Ion Cannon Turrets. Don't move them away from the back! You need them there! Veteran Turret Gunner is and always has been a totally worthless trap!

So, what do you do?

Move just far enough to allow your foe to chase and deal damage to you next turn, and drop a bomb on them as soon as possible, where you know they'll end up. Your foe wants to be at range 2-1, so you'll benefit dropping a bomb in that bracket. BTW, TIE Bombers? No Ions, but they're good too! Nimble Bomber is a **** of a drug hombre.

But, but but but, here's the thing.

You HAVE to be able, ready, and willing to damage yourself, and damage yourself hard. Your bomber fleet is absolutely expendable, because they're gonna' get hit hard no matter what you do- and, get this? Bombs deal crits.

YOU WANT TO DEAL UNAVOIDABLE CRITS. A-Wings fear them! What happens when you hit a group of As with three bombs? Your opponent chances losing half their list.

Remember what Peppy Hare said.



USE BOMBS WISELY!

Sadly haven't got much chance to field bombs (or anything recently...being a tutor means you work when your buddies are free )

But guaranteed damage always has a markedly more significant impact v lower health ships, whether they're aces or TIE/Vultures

And absolutely listen to KCDodger re: bombing yourself. If your bomber is a well shielded and excessively hulled fatass, it can take bomb damage FAR better than most other ships (generally, your opponent's).

I've never been worried about bombs unless its a pilot with bomb specific abilities Like Emon or Sol Sixxa, or even Constable Zuvio. then in the right hands bombs bring the pain.

But on most pilots youre paying both points and opportunity cost to make yourself predictable for a slim chance of doing 1 or 2 damage a time... so the math just doesnt add up. youre doing joust level damage the turn after the joust. meanwhile a cannon will give you the same benefits more consistently for less, or you could just take more or better ships.

I dunno how it can be fixed in the current system. it looked super cool when Boba and Obiwan pulverized an asteroid cluster but doesnt make much sense with the mechanics of the game. and even in reality people stopped trying to throw grenades at eachother in the first year of ww1 cause it didnt work. the volume of airspace is too vast.

i did forget the one time i eent against ion cannons and bombs like KCdodeger mentioned... think I blocked it out. it was... less than ideal

Now the repressed memory has surfaced I think need to see a grief counselor.

11 hours ago, GreenDragoon said:

I disagree with pretty much everything in the OP, but I don't even know where to start

Well start somewhere. I ain't afraid to be wrong. This was meant to be a conversation.

But it will be nice if your counterargument understands and expects and preemptively rebuts counter-argument back. Most arguments I see don't have that capacity, they're one sided and only from one viewpoint.

3 hours ago, ficklegreendice said:

Sadly haven't got much chance to field bombs (or anything recently...being a tutor means you work when your buddies are free )

But guaranteed damage always has a markedly more significant impact v lower health ships, whether they're aces or TIE/Vultures

And absolutely listen to KCDodger re: bombing yourself. If your bomber is a well shielded and excessively hulled fatass, it can take bomb damage FAR better than most other ships (generally, your opponent's).

Can you point me to where this has been useful? I find Tie Bombers die to anything. And they REALLY don't like crits. And cost enough that we're making some sort of trade away in list building.

TIE Bomber, ProTorp and seismic is only 43 points. Use the barrel roll-lock and this cheep bomber just became your clean up hitter with an ace list. Then the fear of a exploding obstacle to follow.

Still need to plan your approach...

There is a lot of vitriol and hate for me and my skills for people who’ve never met me in this thread. Very surprising. And not welcome.

I've tried 5 Strikers with Proximity Mines, and later (after the recent points change) 6 strikers, some with Seismic Charges. Both matches were among the worst games I've ever played why strikers, even considering the early days when I had to get used to Ailerons.

Obviously the Seismic Charges are questionable when you have 6 ships of your own. Their blast radius makes it difficult for all strikers to clear the area, and my style is to mob the opponent, so I only dropped one charge.

Proximity Mines have legs, but it's a heavy investment having 5 of them. Every time I dropped one, either I missed my target or my opponent was able to dodge, and I'd shake my head and think, "I wish I had the Nimble Bomber ship trait." Might be worth trying again now that 5 with Proximity Mines are initiative 3 instead of 1.

I've tried Vagabond with Proximity Mines once. I loved it. Next I need to try him with Seismics to see if I can blow up two rocks in one round.

I think TIE bombers could do alright with just bombs/mines equipped, and maybe Skilled Bombardier. But after the points drop, 31-point strikers or interceptors seem like a steal: 4 points for one more attack die seems great, even if you lose some health. You have to really love bombers to try them out as bombers. Addendum: Deathfire is an exception - I would take him in a variety of squads just to toy with my opponent.

21 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

There is a lot of vitriol and hate for me and my skills for people who’ve never met me in this thread. Very surprising. And not welcome.

Right? You even opened with, "Let's have a conversation," and I think it's definitely an interesting conversation worth having.

Bombs are awesome in Aces High format when you want lots of “first blood” points