So my group has now had a chance to field both the Onager and the Starhawk. Nothing wrong with the Starhawk, except that it offends my sensibilities a little that the Alliance has the game’s tankiest large base, and it seems to beat the crap out of the SSD, which I’d already been struggling to win with.

But man, the Onager... I’m in love. I took a Testbed with the “Ignition (Long)” gun... Orbital Bombardment Particle Cannons? Wulff Yularen, Cataclysm, Varnillian, Nav Team, Ordnance Experts (they never came into play, but I stand by the pick). Backed it up with an Arq Command variant with Needa & TRCs, and a Quasar Fire I Squall with a bunch of aces. Romodi commanding.

I don’t know when I’ve had so much fun playing Armada! I wasn’t even trying hard to pull off the shoot-you-on-turn-one shenanigans, but the opportunity presented itself, and by the middle of turn 2 my opponent’s Salvation was limping along on 1 hull. Asteroid Tactics was allowing me to obstruct my own shots with exogorths practically at will for Romodi, and it also felt like I had 3-4 Dutches on my side at the beginning of each squad phase as the slugs chomped on Biggs & friends. His decked-out Battle Cruiser eventually took out both the Arquitens and Squall, but not before they blew away all of its shields & tokens and about half its hull; by the time it finished with them, it couldn’t keep away from the Testbed’s broadsides, and it was only a matter of time. Maarek, Jonus, & Jendon were easily able to finish the Salvation, and I won.

I’m not sure which I loved more: Romodi, the Onager, Varnillian, or Asteroid Tactics, but there’s some killer stuff in the last few releases. What are your favorites?

I’ve only played with the Onager once so far but I loved it. So much dang fun!

Only had the chance to test the Onager and totally agree - what a fun ship!!!

Concerning the Starhawk I haven‘t had the chance to try but I have the same concerns... Strongest large base for the Rebellion and I think quite strong vs. SSDs.

...and, looks so Imperial (I know it‘s made out of ISDs) but dosn‘t feel like a Rebellion ship!?!

4 hours ago, M0N0LITH said:

Only had the chance to test the Onager and totally agree - what a fun ship!!!

Concerning the Starhawk I haven‘t had the chance to try but I have the same concerns... Strongest large base for the Rebellion and I think quite strong vs. SSDs.

...and, looks so Imperial (I know it‘s made out of ISDs) but dosn‘t feel like a Rebellion ship!?!

That’s because it’s a NEW REPUBLIC ship ☺️

12 hours ago, Cpt ObVus said:

So my group has now had a chance to field both the Onager and the Starhawk. Nothing wrong with the Starhawk, except that it offends my sensibilities a little that the Alliance has the game’s tankiest large base, and it seems to beat the crap out of the SSD, which I’d already been struggling to win with.

But man, the Onager... I’m in love. I took a Testbed with the “Ignition (Long)” gun... Orbital Bombardment Particle Cannons? Wulff Yularen, Cataclysm, Varnillian, Nav Team, Ordnance Experts (they never came into play, but I stand by the pick). Backed it up with an Arq Command variant with Needa & TRCs, and a Quasar Fire I Squall with a bunch of aces. Romodi commanding.

I don’t know when I’ve had so much fun playing Armada! I wasn’t even trying hard to pull off the shoot-you-on-turn-one shenanigans, but the opportunity presented itself, and by the middle of turn 2 my opponent’s Salvation was limping along on 1 hull. Asteroid Tactics was allowing me to obstruct my own shots with exogorths practically at will for Romodi, and it also felt like I had 3-4 Dutches on my side at the beginning of each squad phase as the slugs chomped on Biggs & friends. His decked-out Battle Cruiser eventually took out both the Arquitens and Squall, but not before they blew away all of its shields & tokens and about half its hull; by the time it finished with them, it couldn’t keep away from the Testbed’s broadsides, and it was only a matter of time. Maarek, Jonus, & Jendon were easily able to finish the Salvation, and I won.

I’m not sure which I loved more: Romodi, the Onager, Varnillian, or Asteroid Tactics, but there’s some killer stuff in the last few releases. What are your favorites?

One point, I thought the exogorths made the terrain they’re attached to (and themselves) invisible as far as obstruction purposes go?

2 minutes ago, RogueCommander said:

One point, I thought the exogorths made the terrain they’re attached to (and themselves) invisible as far as obstruction purposes go?

Only for the purpose of their own attack against squadrons.

46 minutes ago, RapidReload said:

Only for the purpose of their own attack against squadrons.

Yes. That’s to prevent you from hiding all your own squads in the asteroids and letting the slugs roll two dice against them, while they get three against your opponent’s squads (trust me, the objective is already plenty tilted to player two’s advantage). For purposes of popping up and giving obstructing ship-to-ship shots, they work just fine, which is a huge bonus for General Romodi.

3 hours ago, Drasnighta said:

That’s because it’s a NEW REPUBLIC ship ☺️

From a certain point of view...

Gotten to try the test bed quite a bit now. Played it with both Rakehell and Cataclysm its a really fun ship to play its just knowing when to have it join the fight with its normal battery or just out right bug out. But yeah It really isn't hard to catch an escort dirty turn 1 or 2. Cut Jaina's light in two when it tried to hide in the rocks. Also does a good job of just pounding a bigger target into scrap. Have killed a Star Destroyer and a pair of Starhawks now with it. So far haven't had as much luck with the destroyer as I have with the test bed. To be fair have played it less, but it just does seem you aren't going to get the shots you can with the test bed.

Haven't had a chance to try the new stuff yet, though I'm very much looking forward to it. My question is, how fun is the Onager to play against? Does it offer up some fun counterplay situations?

2 hours ago, Rune Taq said:

From a certain point of view...

Who cares about the Empire's Point of View, they're on their way out, at that point

Don’t exogorths say they don’t obstruct attacks?

8 hours ago, RapidReload said:

Only for the purpose of their own attack against squadrons.

Where is this stated? I used to play it that way and had it pointed out that that’s never said. There’s just a sentence that says exogorths and their obstacles don’t obstruct.

35 minutes ago, Spellbound said:

Where is this stated? I used to play it that way and had it pointed out that that’s never said. There’s just a sentence that says exogorths and their obstacles don’t obstruct.

From the RitR manual (page 5):

Quote

Line of Sight: When tracing line of sight to or from an exogorth, trace the line using the point of the token that is closest to the opposing squadron. Attacks that draw line of sight through the exogorth itself or through an obstacle that the exogorth is touching are not obstructed.

Otherwise, they are obstacles, and will obstruct any other attack that traces line of sight across it.

Ok but it says right there, that attacks that draw LOS through the exogorth or the obstacle it’s touching are not obstructed. It doesn’t say exogorth attacks. It just says attacks. Why wouldn’t that include other attacks?

For the record I used to think it was the way you’re describing, but at our regional tournament in Houston I was told that that sentence is just black and white: attacks that go through are not obstructed, so they made the obstacles they’re touching invisible. So we’ve been playing that way instead since it was ruled that way at the tournament.

It says “when tracing line of sight to or from an exogorth.” If I have a ship on one side, and it’s shooting at a ship on the other side, I’m tracing line of sight FROM my ship, TO an opposing ship. I am not drawing line of sight “to or from an exogorth,” so you ignore that paragraph, and treat the slug as any other obstacle.

EDIT: Once again, FFG worded this clumsily, as there are few (if any) other situations in Armada where you’re asked to measure LoS to or from an obstacle (Armed Stations and Station Assault-type scenarios are really all I can bring to mind). There aren’t any situations I can think of that specifically ask you to measure LoS TO an exogorth. The only reason (that I can think of) wherein you’re asked to measure line of sight FROM an exogorth is when it’s attacking. And in only that specific set of circumstances (that is, when an exogorth attacks a squadron), you don’t count the slug itself OR the obstacle it’s touching as an obstruction... the logic being, I suppose, that the Falcon can’t hide from the space slug in the asteroids, because those asteroids are home turf for the slug.

If you’re still unconvinced, notice that the paragraph specifically references “the opposing squadron.” This rule is only used when an exogorth attacks a squadron.

1 hour ago, Spellbound said:

Ok but it says right there, that attacks that draw LOS through the exogorth or the obstacle it’s touching are not obstructed. It doesn’t say exogorth attacks. It just says attacks. Why wouldn’t that include other attacks?

EDIT: For some reason I was completely Delayed in this Post ,and Cpt ObVus has it in the meantime...

----

Be Very Careful:

It says when drawing Line of Sight To or From an Exogorth.

There is very limited times when you are doing that - Drawing it To or From it... Rather than just Over or Around it...

Indeed, you really only draw line of sight From it when it is making its attacks.

I can't think of a time off the top of my head when you're drawing Line of Sight To it.

Thank you, Dras. Much more succinctly put!

The practical upshot of this, vis-a-vis Romodi, is that if the Romodi fleet can get second player, and the opponent ends up picking your Infested Fields or Asteroid Tactics, it becomes almost trivially easy to set up obstruction for your ships, as being able to glue space slugs to two different obstacles at the end of the turn (and not removing them until the following squadron phase) essentially doubles the width of any obstacle on the field, any time you feel like doing that.

That’s a separate sentence that says “attacks that draw line of sight through...” which would include ships shooting ships. It doesn’t say “these attacks” or “the exogorth’s attacks” or “when the exogorth attacks”.

I too thought that the entire paragraph referred only to the times exogorths are attacking. But it’s a separate sentence, So the logic of the TO’s was that there wasn’t anything that explicitly tied that sentence to when an exogorth was attacking, it just says attacks that draw LOS through the exogorth or an obstacle it’s touching don’t count as obstructed. It doesn’t specify certain kinds of attacks or certain times that attacks are made, just “attacks”.

we thought playing it so that exogorth could block LOS could make it so that a ship was nearly impossible to target by any 1-die squadrons on one side by placing an exogorth in base contact with the ship. Only very limited attack angles could get LOS in those cases. That seemed a little OP.

5 minutes ago, Spellbound said:

That’s a separate sentence that says “attacks that draw line of sight through...” which would include ships shooting ships. It doesn’t say “these attacks” or “the exogorth’s attacks” or “when the exogorth attacks”.

I too thought that the entire paragraph referred only to the times exogorths are attacking. But it’s a separate sentence, So the logic of the TO’s was that there wasn’t anything that explicitly tied that sentence to when an exogorth was attacking, it just says attacks that draw LOS through the exogorth or an obstacle it’s touching don’t count as obstructed. It doesn’t specify certain kinds of attacks or certain times that attacks are made, just “attacks”.

we thought playing it so that exogorth could block LOS could make it so that a ship was nearly impossible to target by any 1-die squadrons on one side by placing an exogorth in base contact with the ship. Only very limited attack angles could get LOS in those cases. That seemed a little OP.

The entire section that contains the rules I quoted is prefaced with “An exogorth uses the following rules when it performs attacks.”

The rules that follow define Armament, Hull Zone, Firing Arcs, and Line of Sight rules that only apply during an exogorth attack.

^This! It's not a case of bad wording, but a case of bad layout . The last sentence of the second paragraph should be a headline!

I changed the layout for the Exogorth site at the wiki to make it clearer.

9 hours ago, Spellbound said:

That’s a separate sentence that says “attacks that draw line of sight through...” which would include ships shooting ships. It doesn’t say “these attacks” or “the exogorth’s attacks” or “when the exogorth attacks”.

I too thought that the entire paragraph referred only to the times exogorths are attacking. But it’s a separate sentence, So the logic of the TO’s was that there wasn’t anything that explicitly tied that sentence to when an exogorth was attacking...

Well, with no disrespect to your TO, I would definitely disagree with his interpretation of that entire paragraph. Generally, the reason sentences are grouped into paragraphs is because they are related to/dependent upon each other.

However, Astrodar and Triangular really nailed it; it’s a layout issue. Look at the last sentence in the paragraph below the heading “Exogorth Effects.” It reads, an Exogorth uses the following rules when it performs attacks:”

The entire rest of the page is devoted to that topic only: exogorths performing attacks.

And yes, the ability to shut down 1-die flak by placing exogorths cleverly is one of the many strong things this objective can do for the second player. It’s also possible to pretty much have the slugs eat your opponent’s entire fighter wing and prevent them from counterattacking if they blunder too close to an asteroid even once. In the case of our first game with it, we both started with around 100 points of mostly ace squadrons, and by the end of the game, he had killed only Darth Vader, and I had killed Biggs, Jan, Shara, and two YT-1300s, leaving only Tycho to tell the tale, and I barely fired at his squadrons at all. Outside of a total of 4 splash damage from my Onager’s superweapon, and a couple of pretty whiffy attacks from Saber Squadron & Vader (and one lucky missile from Jonus to finish Biggs off!) I didn’t do a whole lot of shooting at his fighters (and seriously, Vader, with the help of Flight Controllers, rolled 4 accuracies and a single hit on the black die. His only attack that game. Ugh).

The enemy mostly got chomped by slugs, got “swallowed,” (toggled activation sliders), and they were then stuck there until the following turn, and it would happen all over again.

The key is to present a potent enough fighter threat that your opponent decides to jump on you anywhere near an obstacle. When they take the bait, you drop the slug and go to lunch. Also remember that you get to choose one exogorth for which to roll attack dice, while your opponent gets the other. You are not compelled to spend accuracies when you roll for your slug, so your Scatter aces are probably safe!

I could go on and on (I think I may already have) about how potentially nasty Asteroid Tactics is, and I haven’t even explored the ability to recover defense tokens with it.

The objective IS a powerful tilt in favor of player two, but as it gives no points away for either side, it should be.