Hey Everybody,
I was thinking on the train just now, pause for comments, that 4+ ship builds are the norm now and that’s a good thing. But would bringing TS back into vogue be a bad thing?
I personally don’t like to fly swarms, but I don’t see them as bad or anything along those lines. My thoughts are, would bringing ships like the Punisher back to HS be a terrible thing?
Isn’t it back?
This wouldn’t be Star Wars without tragedy and sand.
I would rather have back the Assault Missiles (why don‘t the Concussion Missiles have this kind of useful splash damage?) than a cheap Trajectory Simulator.
What’s wrong with lots of ships in a squad?
44 minutes ago, Singulativ said:I would rather have back the Assault Missiles (why don‘t the Concussion Missiles have this kind of useful splash damage?) than a cheap Trajectory Simulator.
Given that you don't spend your lock on firing missiles these days, let the past stay dead on those guys (or pay 17-20 points for it, relative to protorp's 13).
That said, try seismics if you're having swarm troubles. Placed in the right position you can almost guarantee 2+ damage out of a single bomb by having multiple rocks to choose from in range.
I am not having issues with swarms, my thinking was about counter play. Generic swarms are a counter to ace lists.
I was just thinking out loud and I am a big believer in getting as many opinions/sources as I can before forming an opinion.
With the point changes, I could see droids fielding tragedy seismics. Since the rocks are going anyway (big boost in pseudo-mirror), you can have tragedy pay for itself by dropping the landing sluts.
Resistance Bombers are not really coming back despite numerous price cuts aside from memes. They really want a reinforce outside pricey Holdo shenanigans and can't get it. Massive target with massive points ready to go down in flames. Thematic.
Tragedy Sim Havoc for Scum looks cool. Nym has a lot of flexibility in freezing bombs, and a tragedy proton frozen can ward off any swarm and artificially function as an obstacle in play. The best part of tragedy Nym is that Sol Sixa's mine/bomb shenanigans don't need no sensor slot. Don't know if it's better than Emon doing his spiel, but hey, it's worth a look.
The Punisher drop mean that Punishers might come back with the cards for Imps, especially Deathrain (be he a blocker or a lighter munition pilot). Redline is not going to equip it much because he wants to share points with the rest of the squad to form an alpha strike. Deathrain could honestly go with any of the bombs, although I like seismics the most on him, considering that of all the swarms he'd be weakest to, it would be droid swarms. Deathfire gets an honorable mention for this reply because he can launch bombs or even mines as he goes. A cluster mine reserved for Deathfire's passing turn, even ignoring skilled bombadier, is worth it alone simply for nimble bomber. And with only 1 charge, he will never not get all his cluster mine off unless he wins.
4 hours ago, Hoarder of Garlic Bread said:With the point changes, I could see droids fielding tragedy seismics. Since the rocks are going anyway (big boost in pseudo-mirror), you can have tragedy pay for itself by dropping the landing sluts.
Resistance Bombers are not really coming back despite numerous price cuts aside from memes. They really want a reinforce outside pricey Holdo shenanigans and can't get it. Massive target with massive points ready to go down in flames. Thematic.
Yeah. Bomb drones can definitely carry tragedy now.
Res Bombers... I think are also reasonable carriers of tragedy + seismics. The reason is seimsics give you a lot more room to move up into a good position if the rock is farther than 5 forward. Unfortunately for one bomb damage, generally this is a tech that isn't worth it except vs swarms, which don't seem to be horrifically troublesome right now.
The general better options are naked, or AdvOptics for Init1 shooting or Vet Turret Gunner.
Yes, this ship would love a reinforce. Frankly, I think it could go down in points, or take a Vet Turret Gunner reduction. VTG right now is priced out of casual competition at 10pts. (It might be nice to have this be variable)
4 hours ago, Hoarder of Garlic Bread said:Tragedy Sim Havoc for Scum looks cool. Nym has a lot of flexibility in freezing bombs, and a tragedy proton frozen can ward off any swarm and artificially function as an obstacle in play. The best part of tragedy Nym is that Sol Sixa's mine/bomb shenanigans don't need no sensor slot. Don't know if it's better than Emon doing his spiel, but hey, it's worth a look.
Might def be good.
4 hours ago, Hoarder of Garlic Bread said:The Punisher drop mean that Punishers might come back with the cards for Imps, especially Deathrain (be he a blocker or a lighter munition pilot). Redline is not going to equip it much because he wants to share points with the rest of the squad to form an alpha strike. Deathrain could honestly go with any of the bombs, although I like seismics the most on him, considering that of all the swarms he'd be weakest to, it would be droid swarms. Deathfire gets an honorable mention for this reply because he can launch bombs or even mines as he goes. A cluster mine reserved for Deathfire's passing turn, even ignoring skilled bombadier, is worth it alone simply for nimble bomber. And with only 1 charge, he will never not get all his cluster mine off unless he wins.
Deathrain is too expensive for his cost. He's basically a boosting Resistance Transport with 1 more hull, that equates to: 32pts + 2pts for hull (non-optional chassis true value of 1 hull is less than the cost of the upgrade at 3pts) + 5-6pts for Init4 and ability like Cova's that is pretty good[I think Cova is probably a point overcosted] = 39-40 points.
He's 44. Easily 4-5 points overcosted. Let's say 4 points just for kicks.
With Barrage and 3pt seismics to basically always let him have a focus, he's 55. This can be compared to the value of Ten Numb, with an ability similarly, again -2-3 pts for 1 hull. at 52. Still 4 points overcosted.
“Deathrain” (44)
Barrage Rockets (8)
Seismic Charges (3)
Total: 55
Let's say you do THIS build, which is wicked but expensive.
“Deathrain” (44)
Trajectory Simulator (6)
Barrage Rockets (8)
Seismic Charges (3)
Proton Bombs (5)
Total: 66
The only "advantage" of this build is forward bombing 4 times, but it costs a whopping 16-18 points more than Ten Numb. Your opponent had better take damage on stuff like Soontir or multiple ships to for this to be worth it. Otherwise each damage is only going to be worth about 3-4 points. And that assumes you even get off each bomb for damage.
Having played Tragedy Sim Deathrain quite a bit, you are missing 2 of the biggest advantages of his 66pts.
1. He zones like a champ, people either have to change their approach, or burn actions to get out. Seismics in particular are great, and if you can build a triangle of rocks the area of influence can be huge (like range 4 across by about range 2 deep). I've had many people help me build that triangle too.
2. He can reposition before moving. This can change his approach vector, or make him escape better.
I took him to top 8 of NZ Nats when that build was 59pts, he was ok at 70pts but not stellar. 66pts has my interest again.
The rest of the list needs to take advantage of what he brings to the table however.
Tragedy Simulator Proximity Mines are already in the game, however, and they're wicked cheap. They just call them "Discord Missiles" these days.
18 hours ago, Archangelspiv said:I am not having issues with swarms, my thinking was about counter play. Generic swarms are a counter to ace lists.
I was just thinking out loud and I am a big believer in getting as many opinions/sources as I can before forming an opinion.
highlighting the phrase "counter play" here, the real keyword is "play."
if aces are overpowered by swarms the counter should be in the game itself (changing your strategy), not in the listbuilding phase. building lists is fun but it's not playing the game.
if you think tragedy simulator is fun, that's a different conversation than the conversation about swarms vs aces and power level.
personally, I don't like punishers much because they're not canon and haven't been rereleased, and they don't really play the game all that interestingly (mostly just joust and farm MOV before exploding).
and for the record they're probably not the greatest counter to vulture swarms (the only good swarm in HS right now) anyway.