Are you having much success using BARCs or just leaving them at home.

The way I see it, if you're taking 2 BARCs you are pretty much limited to 3 Clone squads, Rex and Obi Wan. The issue here is BARCs are vehicles and can't control objectives, just like Z-74s. To me both these should be considered troopers.

If you take 1 BARC instead of 2, the firepower just doesn't seem worth it.

Going with 5 core units, Rex and Obi-Wan and no BARCs your activations are easier to know in advance since it will either be a trooper or a commander token, but more limited because to take advantage of the token sharing you have to stick them close together in a blob.

In games I have played I have had much more success with just using clone troopers and not using BARCS.

They are poorly costed. Currently leave them at home

I have not had much luck with the Barc speeders myself. I find that when I run them they get focus fired off the board before I have much of a chance to put out any real damage. I might get lucky and manage a single fire support or put some suppression on a squad or two before they go. Part of this might be that I typically don't play with vehicles, so I'm not as adept at maneuvering the speeders. Speed 3 compulsory feels a bit too fast for my tastes, so I run them with a sidecar to slow them down and try to get more dice out. I have not had luck using them as anti-vehicle solutions due to the aforementioned focus fire. I might try running one without any upgrades, but it's a lot of points that I could put towards running another corps squad or bringing Obi-Wan or upgrading my clones instead.

I've played more than a few games with bikes and they're no TaunTauns but they have come through for me a few times.

Some thoughts:

• If I bring more than one bike, I'm only bringing Rex with esteemed leader so he doesn't die so easy. 75-100 point units are gonna drop too many activations to bring Obi-Wan.
• If i bring the Ion bike, it has an HQ uplink so it never gets in my token bag. This gets expensive, so it's the only bike i take if I take it at all.
• The rocket launcher is great because it doesn't have to point towards the enemy. This helps if I wanna skirmish at range 4 for a bit. Bonus points if I can fire support with a DC-15.
• The naked bike is great to swoop in and trigger two different fire support attacks on an important turn where I wanna shoot my shot first. One attack with the main guns and one with the sidearm.
• When I go whole hog and bring three bikes, it's 2 rockets and a naked one. This has worked either terribly or really well depending on the deployment/conditions. On disarray it was hilarious. Long march less so.
• I've never used the laser one. If I'm eating up that many points, then I want some impact just in case I see a real vehicle.

Now that there are choices the barc will be a nice model for fun large games or just to try something different. I would rather field arc or clone 2s than a barc(s)

Phase 1 Clone Troopers + DC-15
82 Points
5 Health
Red Defense
Average 5.0 hits with an aim

BARC Speeder + RPS-6 Rocket Launcher
99 Points
5 Health
Red Defense
Average 4.7 hits with an aim

Other Comparisons
Phase 1 can score all objectives VS BARC only scores some objectives
Both units can spit fire
BARC gets a free move every turn
Phase 1 can share tokens
Phase 1 damage output decreases as they take damage

So +17 points for a free move and sustained firepower over the lifetime of the unit. Doesn't seem worth the cost to me. Even with the twin laser gunner the BARC is still 11 points more than the phase 1 squad. I don't think the BARC is worth running without a gunner as it will struggle to get damage past cover.

The thing the BARC really has going for it to being able to give surge to hit on those fire-support attack pools but I find that combo clunky to trigger. You are probably running a large corps component in your army with a BARC or maybe two. To trigger fire-support the supporting unit needs a face up order token, meaning BARCs likely aren't getting an order token themselves. The chances of drawing a BARC when you need it are then quite slim because you have so few of them. Sure, it can take HQ uplink but then you are increasing the cost of an already over-costed unit by another 10 points.

Maybe when the new tanks come out several BARCs with the rocket launcher will see more play. BARCs are doing 1.5 wounds per shot to a target with armour and red defense dice. If you take 3 you might bring down a tank with 2 rounds of 3 shots.

Numbers are assuming an aim token is available. Clones can either take an aim action themselves or borrow one from another unit. BARC probably aims with 1 action because it has a free move action to get in position.

1 hour ago, Qark said:

I don't think the BARC is worth running without a gunner as it will struggle to get damage past cover.

This is where I actually disagree. In all the games I've played in which the BARC has a gunner, they end up dealing a tiny bit of damage and then melting way too fast. Without a gunner though the BARC has really come through for me and done incredibly well. Ran 2 BARCs with no gunner in a few games game and granted, their attack is pretty bad BUT it provides several advantages. First one's obvious they're cheaper which inherently makes them easier to include in an army. Second, they are not nearly as big of a threat to an opponent making my opponent instead fire at my dangerous troops and commanders and ignore the slightly pesky BARCs. But that's when it hits hard. With the speed 3 not being decreased by a gunner its so much easier too pull a speeder around behind enemy cover and fire support an attack while flanking them. They lose cover, and the clones get a surge. Unit dies every time and it's beautiful. This is the one and only way I've used the BARC well and when I did this they were worth it for sure

NO

2 hours ago, Qark said:

Phase 1 Clone Troopers + DC-15
82 Points
5 Health
Red Defense
Average 5.0 hits with an aim

BARC Speeder + RPS-6 Rocket Launcher
99 Points
5 Health
Red Defense
Average 4.7 hits with an aim

Other Comparisons
Phase 1 can score all objectives VS BARC only scores some objectives
Both units can spit fire
BARC gets a free move every turn
Phase 1 can share tokens
Phase 1 damage output decreases as they take damage

So +17 points for a free move and sustained firepower over the lifetime of the unit. Doesn't seem worth the cost to me. Even with the twin laser gunner the BARC is still 11 points more than the phase 1 squad. I don't think the BARC is worth running without a gunner as it will struggle to get damage past cover.

The thing the BARC really has going for it to being able to give surge to hit on those fire-support attack pools but I find that combo clunky to trigger. You are probably running a large corps component in your army with a BARC or maybe two. To trigger fire-support the supporting unit needs a face up order token, meaning BARCs likely aren't getting an order token themselves. The chances of drawing a BARC when you need it are then quite slim because you have so few of them. Sure, it can take HQ uplink but then you are increasing the cost of an already over-costed unit by another 10 points.

Maybe when the new tanks come out several BARCs with the rocket launcher will see more play. BARCs are doing 1.5 wounds per shot to a target with armour and red defense dice. If you take 3 you might bring down a tank with 2 rounds of 3 shots.

Numbers are assuming an aim token is available. Clones can either take an aim action themselves or borrow one from another unit. BARC probably aims with 1 action because it has a free move action to get in position.

So, the Phase I will be inferior after suffering 1 wound essentially?

The sidecar should have given you armor 1

This is all anecdotal, but I feel I should offer it. My usual opponent always plays Republic, and I always play Separatists. He brings 2 of the BARC speeders every time because he didn't want to buy more than 4 phase 1 clones. Those things are the bane of my army. My B1s can't hit them (though they're super accurate against clones for some reason), and if I send Grievous or Dooku to attack the speeders, that leaves them out in the open to get shot. The Droideka's suppression does nothing to them either. To add insult to injury, when I do land some hits, his red saves are always on point for some reason (he's saved 7 hits out of 7 more than once). With the ion sidecar attachment, and his ability to move them with Speeder X and refresh the ion every time, they severely disrupt my army.

Is that all down to dice roll luck and anecdotal evidence? Well, yeah. Are they good? I don't know. I know they're good against me. I usually have to spend a couple turns or more just to take out one of the speeders, they never just "melt". Reading the forums, it seems like they should be complete garbage, but that never seems to be the case.

I'd say try them out. If you like them, keep bringing them. If you don't like them, don't bring them. Sometimes the dice will be with you, sometimes they won't.

People compare BARCs to P1 Clones.

Barcs can't get cover 2 as easily as clone troops can.
Their larger size makes it harder to hide.
After 3 wounds barcs become gimped as a unit.
Clone troopers can take every objective, and after 3 wounds you have the heavy weapon plus the leader, so the damage output is still useful.
The compulsory move is a double edged sword. It can be great to get that extra action, but it can also put you in a tough position if you don't move very carefully.
Barcs can be used to outflank, but often a good opponent can spread their units out just enough to cover their flanks.
Now that we have Rex, clone troopers don't need the surge to hit that the barcs offer.

Barcs aren't a terrible unit, they are just a little too expensive for what they are. Sure, in a friendly game you'll probably get lots out of them.

But to be super efficient for tournament play, clones need other units of troops to share tokens, and every point you spend counts.

6 hours ago, Derrault said:

So, the Phase I will be inferior after suffering 1 wound essentially?

Great question!

Average for the phase 1 goes to 4.3 average hits. Lets also consider the mode; 5 across the board for BARCs with rocket launcher, BARCs with twin laser, Phase 1 + DC-15 at full strength, Phase 1 + DC-15 - 1 guy.

So yes a difference. Is it significant? Probably not. Your question also implies that you are only considering damage output. Clones have a lot of utility that has already been mentioned.

BARCs are aweful.

Overcosted and hard to control.

I leave them at home, and I really dont see an errata that will help them.

I'm waiting on the Tank and PIIs and with ARCs on the way, there is zero reason to ever use BARCs again.

ATRTs will then seal the fate of BARCs.

9 hours ago, Qark said:

Great question!

Average for the phase 1 goes to 4.3 average hits. Lets also consider the mode; 5 across the board for BARCs with rocket launcher, BARCs with twin laser, Phase 1 + DC-15 at full strength, Phase 1 + DC-15 - 1 guy.

So yes a difference. Is it significant? Probably not. Your question also implies that you are only considering damage output. Clones have a lot of utility that has already been mentioned.

True, I guess it’s a question of: how many utility units do you need vice how many damage specific units?

I’d posit that it’s worth at least one, where those points are otherwise mutually exclusive, and two or three are optional

I have two and have run them a few times, either one with Ion+HQ Uplink or two stock BARCs. I only purchased 4 squads of P1s since I knew I'd be picking up some P2s and would never need 6 squads of P1 after that. I only picked up 2 BARCs for the same reason, I knew I would most likely never run 3 of them. Lessons learned from starting with Rebels when Legion released. 🙂

I did manage to lock down an AT-ST with the Ion in a single game but was unimpressed with the performance overall. The stock BARCs are actualy somewhat useful. The Speed 3, compulsory move, 4 dice and cover 1 make them play somewhat like a T-47, which I tried really hard to make work back in 2018 before the points reduction and change to Weapon Disabled. They are definitely a flanking unit and are great for putting some hurt on the squads your opponent is trying to hide by the backfield vaporators, supplies, or transmission console. They are not assault units and no amount of red saves will keep them from dying quickly to massed fire.

If you are going for efficiency and winning all your games then you will want to pick something else. If you want to play some Legion and don't want to shell out for Phase 1 squads #5 and #6 then run some BARCs and have some fun. Unless you only play on TTS and at the "Open" tournaments then your local scene will probably have different lists and load-outs than what most of the people on the interwebs are telling you to use.

The BARCs are not bad per se, although they certainly could have used the same cost reduction that the 74-Zs got. They're mobile, they have decent gun options, they throw a good amount of dice for their cost.

They will however always be brought down by how much synergy simply adding more Clones to your army brings. Every model that's not a Clone removes potential token efficiency from your army, and since the Republic is costed with that synergy in mind.

Sure BARCs provide offensive crits to Fire Support, but Fire Support is not very good in general, and the army has decent access to Surge tokens and Critical 1 weapons.

So in a vacuum they're not so bad cost to power wise, but every additional Clone unit props up the others, like a phalanx, they BARC simply does not participate enough in that synergy.

3 hours ago, NeonWolf said:

I have two and have run them a few times, either one with Ion+HQ Uplink or two stock BARCs. I only purchased 4 squads of P1s since I knew I'd be picking up some P2s and would never need 6 squads of P1 after that. I only picked up 2 BARCs for the same reason, I knew I would most likely never run 3 of them. Lessons learned from starting with Rebels when Legion released. 🙂

I did manage to lock down an AT-ST with the Ion in a single game but was unimpressed with the performance overall. The stock BARCs are actualy somewhat useful. The Speed 3, compulsory move, 4 dice and cover 1 make them play somewhat like a T-47, which I tried really hard to make work back in 2018 before the points reduction and change to Weapon Disabled. They are definitely a flanking unit and are great for putting some hurt on the squads your opponent is trying to hide by the backfield vaporators, supplies, or transmission console. They are not assault units and no amount of red saves will keep them from dying quickly to massed fire.

If you are going for efficiency and winning all your games then you will want to pick something else. If you want to play some Legion and don't want to shell out for Phase 1 squads #5 and #6 then run some BARCs and have some fun. Unless you only play on TTS and at the "Open" tournaments then your local scene will probably have different lists and load-outs than what most of the people on the interwebs are telling you to use.

If you're competing it to a t47 to say they are playable you've lost me

I don't get why people are saying "take them over clone troopers". My experience has been "Take rex and 6 clones, and take them over Obi-Wan, because you need those sweet sweet activations".

On 2/16/2020 at 12:04 PM, Tri3 said:

Are you having much success using BARCs or just leaving them at home.

The way I see it, if you're taking 2 BARCs you are pretty much limited to 3 Clone squads, Rex and Obi Wan. The issue here is BARCs are vehicles and can't control objectives, just like Z-74s. To me both these should be considered troopers.

If you take 1 BARC instead of 2, the firepower just doesn't seem worth it.

Going with 5 core units, Rex and Obi-Wan and no BARCs your activations are easier to know in advance since it will either be a trooper or a commander token, but more limited because to take advantage of the token sharing you have to stick them close together in a blob.

In games I have played I have had much more success with just using clone troopers and not using BARCS.

BARCs are really bad, don't bother with them.

#1 They aren't clones. Unable to share or give tokens. Only real benefit is giving squads surge -> hit during FS.

#2 No synergy with Rex or Obi Wan.

36 minutes ago, grandmoffjoe said:

I don't get why people are saying "take them over clone troopers". My experience has been "Take rex and 6 clones, and take them over Obi-Wan, because you need those sweet sweet activations".

To each their own though I think the survivability obi brings to the entire list is way more valuable than an activation.

Besides what is your answer to force users. Jedi Luke woke just eat you

50 minutes ago, Tirion said:

If you're competing it to a t47 to say they are playable you've lost me

I'm saying it plays like a T-47. Large base, compulsory move, dies faster than you think it will, should be used as a flanker, etc. Also, they are both "playable", they just may not be the most efficient options if you are determined to win a tournament.

Probably an unpopular opinion, but I'd say take one.

The last clone army I faced really screwed me over by saving the BARC speeder for last and parking it range 1 of 4 or 5 of my B1s. It had comms jammer but otherwise naked. It completely destroyed my plans for round 2 and ultimately led 3 full B1 units to their death that round.

I would say with Shores being so popular and coordinate in general being so good, having a contingency to interrupt an enemy "daisy chain" (local term for the coordinate comms relay shenanigans) isn't a bad idea. Clones already seem to have a significant amount of kill power so some control doesn't hurt. Especially when it's well executed, it can be devastating.

16 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

Probably an unpopular opinion, but I'd say take one.

The last clone army I faced really screwed me over by saving the BARC speeder for last and parking it range 1 of 4 or 5 of my B1s. It had comms jammer but otherwise naked. It completely destroyed my plans for round 2 and ultimately led 3 full B1 units to their death that round.

I would say with Shores being so popular and coordinate in general being so good, having a contingency to interrupt an enemy "daisy chain" (local term for the coordinate comms relay shenanigans) isn't a bad idea. Clones already seem to have a significant amount of kill power so some control doesn't hurt. Especially when it's well executed, it can be devastating.

They just can't stand up to any fire

An easy fix to barcs would be to have a commander that somehow synergises with them.

Example: Speeder units gain reliable 1 . Or some cards that work with support choices.

But I don't see that happening.

I'd go with a points errata:

Barc -5pts
Sidecars -8pts