Hey folks!

I'm just getting into the game, having just bought the final Nantex that I need so I can start building 200 pt. lists (so all I have is the starter and a few Nantex at the moment) and I'm trying to figure out where I should go from here. I really enjoy flying the Nantex so far and I think I'd like to keep playing it in my lists as I'm building up my collection, but I don't just want to play the same thing all the time. so right now I have a 5 Nantex swarm and I'm looking at building something like this as my second list:

Berwer Kret [Nantex-class starfighter] (40)

Outmanuever (6)

Gravitic Deflection (5)

ship points: 51

Stalgasin Hive Guard [Nantex-class starfighter] (34)

Gravitic deflection (5)

ship points: 39

DFS-311 [vulture-class droid fighter] (23)

Grappling struts (1)

ship points (24)

Trade Federation Drone [vulture-class droid fighter] (19)

Discord missles (4)

Grappling struts (1)

ship points: 24

Trade Federation Drone [vulture-class droid fighter] (19)

Discord missles (4)

Grappling struts (1)

ship points: 24

Techno Union Bomber [Hyena-class droid bomber] (25)

Discord missles (4)

DRK-1 Probe droids (5)

Landing struts (1)

ship points: 35

points total:197

so I obviously want to use DRK-1 to help the droids get target locks so that Kret can then give them all calculate. I'm kind of planning on flying Kret and the Hive Guard as flankers, though I strongly suspect that most opponents will go after them and the droids will end up being the flanking force in most cases.. this is especially true since I have outmaneuver on Kret at the moment, however I don't think this would be entirely bad, as I expect the Nantex to be more survivable than the droids. If the Nantex end up being targeted though, it will be more difficult to line up their bullseye shots and the list will lose damage potential, so I'm kind of looking for a way that the rest of the force could make up for that.

What do you all think? any obvious changes I should make? Should I trash the list entirely?

Honestly, I kind of want to have a non-swarmy option, but since we don't really have separatist "aces", all I can really think of for that is something involving Gorgol repairing Darth Maul.. Probably using treacherous too, because I kinda like the flavor of that card. (maybe us 0-66 instead of maul, so I can have a treacherous infiltrator?) BY the way, this list is hyperspace. I'm not opposed to extended ideas as I've got a couple of friends starting the game with me that don't really care about format, but I'm trying to keep it hyperspace so I have options in tournaments or in case other players at the LGS are very picky.

Thanks.

15 hours ago, Black_Rabbit_Inle said:

What do you all think? any obvious changes I should make? Should I trash the list entirely?

Honestly... I think kind of needs to be rebuild from scratch.

• First things: there's a lot of ways it won't function as intended.
  • Outmaneuver will never function on Berwer Kret. It requires a "front arc" weapon, not just an attach which happens to be in the front arc, and Berwer doesn't have one: they have a bullseye and a turret weapon. Outmaneuver needs to match the symbol on the attack with the symbol on the weapon.
  • Next, Berwer's ability seems awkward with a lot of the rest of the list.
    • Discords and Berwer just don't fit well together.
      • You'll never be able to use Berwer's abulity to gain calculates to launch discord missiles. Discords need to happen at the start of the engagement phase, before Berwer can attack.
      • Flip-side: if you used Discord Missiles, that means you took a Calculate action, which means Berwer can no longer help you, since you cannot Calculate twice.
    • While it makes getting locks really easy, there's something awkward about DRK-1 probes and Berwer. If you have the best case and are able to lock the target you want at long long range, you'll have locks on a turn you're not fighting. Which means that when you approach, you won't have to take locks that turn, and can Calculate. If that's the case, Berwer's ability is useless, since you'll have already performed the single Calc action you're allowed to take each turn.
      • This isn't necessarily terrible, however. Maybe Probes only increase your lock range a bit, and you're not able to lock a full turn ahead, then Berwer can light up the locks. Alternately, you'll be able to switch targets better, since you can relock if your DRK-1 long-range target isn't going to be vulnerable.
• More broadly, I think for a list to truly maximize Berwer, he probably needs to be the only Nantex, that is, the only ship without Calculate.
  • If you own the ships, it might work to cut the Hive Guard (plus the non-functional Outmaneuver), and use these points to add two more Vultures, and maybe change-up the missiles. Ion Missiles are the same price, and not too bad. Concussion Missiles are a bit more expensive, but can hit decently hard. It's also fine to have Vultures without missiles.
  • Say... maybe that'd work... You could run something like this:
    • Berwer Kret (Gravitic Deflection) 45
    • Techno Union Bomber (DRK-1, Struts) 31
    • DFS-311 (Struts) 24
    • Trade Fed Drone (Struts) 20
    • Trade Fed Drone (Struts) 20
    • Trade Fed Drone (Struts) 20
    • Trade Fed Drone (Struts) 20
      • Missiles (20 points)
        • There are currently 20 points available for missiles.
          • That could be 5 Ion, 3 Concussion, or 2 Concussion 2 Ion.
          • I guess it'd still probably work fine to bring Discord Missiles, and treat Berwer as more of a "reload" effect for the second round of combat, rather than trying to use him in the first. In that case, I'd run Concussion Missiles on the Hyena, and put Discords on 3 Vultures.
          • Alternately, upgrade a few of the Vultures to more Hyenas, or maybe add a 5th Trade Fed Drone.

Thanks.

Honestly, I wasn't really thinking about discord missiles synergizing (or not) with Kret at all. It's just that they seem to be good against big beefy ships (like Fett). I've seen discord missiles used effectively before, so I feel like I understand how and why to use them (and also they're unique to separatists), when I look at the full list of possible missiles, I'm not really sure what the best general use missile is at this point. My plan was more simply to have the droids mostly use target lock actions, although DFS can calculate and pass it on to anyone who really needs it. Meanwhile, I wanted a "pincer" that would get people to turn their attention away from the droids.. I figured Kret might work for that since he can get the bullseye attack if people let him line it up. Kret's ability was meant to be more of an incidental synergy with the droids the themselves, rather than being used for any specific purpose. With that said, I doubt it would be a good idea to have Kret "pincering" without a wingman. (I'm not sure it's a good idea to have him flanking at all really.) I could try flying a Vulture or something with him. There's also the issue, if people fly after Kret and ignore the droids, how do I take advantage of that?

4 hours ago, Black_Rabbit_Inle said:

Honestly, I wasn't really thinking about discord missiles synergizing (or not) with Kret at all. It's just that they seem to be good against big beefy ships (like Fett). I've seen discord missiles used effectively before, so I feel like I understand how and why to use them (and also they're unique to separatists), when I look at the full list of possible missiles, I'm not really sure what the best general use missile is at this point.

Ya know, it might just be Discords after all... Three Discord Vultures, a Conc Hyena, 311, and Berwer Kret as a 2nd-round tool to have a stronger "second strike" seems fine.

Berwer is a fairly cheap flanker/ace, a nice Init 5 tool who can add some support to a list, and maybe the secret is to not worry that much about their pilot ability.

4 hours ago, Black_Rabbit_Inle said:

There's also the issue, if people fly after Kret and ignore the droids, how do I take advantage of that?

A droids like this have weight-of-fire enough to threaten and take advantage of being ignored without too many extra tricks.

I've toyed theoretically with Kret for a while. It would seem that ships with Target Locks should give precedence, but when You look at his ability it is just not powerful. Th requirement to hit while maintaining a lock is just too much for a benefit of doing a red calculate action. It just don't add up unfortunately. So basically two routes:

• Brewer Kret with a number of droids You can fit (7 max) and play the swarm just as You would without the relay mixing in an occasional lock to leverage the ability. Or simply us Kret as a cheap ace support.
• Kret with Bombers (occasional droid or two for calculate battery purposes). This would leverage target lock / red calculate efficiency. I don't know how good it is or if it is better to have two more droids or another Hyena in place of Brewer. In theory Kret with 3 Hyenas and 2 Droids could be a good list. If it is bitterer than 4 Hyena / 2 Droid or 3 Hyena / 4 Droid list I don't know...

I also assume lists for Hyperspace because in Extended Brewer is lagging behind as CIS would have a much better choice of Toys available (Ensnare for Sun Fac/Chertek or Belbullab- Sear).

One funny thing with Brewer. Snap Shot on him could be advantageous. it is not really optimal in all cases, but there is a possibility to have additional calculate factory move.

Example:

Berwer Kret (40)
Gravitic Deflection (5)

Techno Union Bomber (25)
Plasma Torpedoes (9)
Landing Struts (1)

Techno Union Bomber (25)
Plasma Torpedoes (9)
Landing Struts (1)

Baktoid Prototype (28)
Concussion Missiles (6)
Landing Struts (1)

Trade Federation Drone (19)
Discord Missiles (4)
Grappling Struts (1)

Trade Federation Drone (19)
Discord Missiles (4)
Grappling Struts (1)
Total: 198

Looks quite solid for Hyperspace.

@BoskiChe ,

Thanks for the suggestion btw. I'm looking at various ways to fit snapshot on Berwer.. not really sure if it's worth taking the struts off everyone, but I guess that kinda depends on how I want to fly.